| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Panador |
Posted - 20 Aug 2004 : 18:53:05
As it didn't fit into the subject: Possible Spoilers included.
After I finished this novel today I searched for a thread about this book and was quite surprised when I found none so - here it is. 
I really liked the book, just like every FR novel I read until now, but there was something about this book that made it all the more interesting - the setting.  I can't remember ever hearing about Halruaa before and this book is set in this very special country, a country devoted only to Mystra and Azuth and to magic itself - not a surprise when (my guess) about half the population are wizards.
Netheril descendants, skyships, 'Jordaini' (never heard about it before)... much new stuff which is very refreshing considering that almost all the other FR novels (at least the most prominent ones) are set in Cormyr, Sembia, the North etc. which ist not a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but reading a book that takes place in a region never heard of before is very... well, already said that... refreshing. Also, behirs, of which I heard for the first time in Forsaken House, appear in the Magehound... often.
Also, this was my very first Elaine Cunningham novel - and I'm going to read more in the future.
The story is interesting, the characters too, especially Tzigone, and - and that surprised my quite a bit - the drow also play a role in the book, well, more or less at least . The stuff said about the drow in this book was new to me, especially that thing about the drow descendats, the Crinti, and the drow ancestors, the IIythiiri and about the 'Spider Queen':
quote:
Legend hast it that once, many thousands of years ago, an Ilythiiri wizard stumbled through the veil that separates the world we see from the unseen world of the Unseelie Court. There she learned some of the magic of the dark fairies, most of it by unfortunate firsthand experience. After much torment, she escaped, now utterly insane but carrying a knowlede of fell magic that surpassed any wizard in the land. She began to rise to power that attracted the darkest hearts of her time to her court. Her name is lost to memory, and she is known only as the Spider Queen. It is said that the evil goddess of the drow, Lolth, assimiltated the wizard into her being, taking for herself both the wizard's name and her dark magic. It is said that something of the wizard's memory remains within the goddess, and as a result, the drow, even Lolth herself, fear the Unseelie folg. What, then, could be more frightening to the Crinti than the songs of the dark fairies?
Very interesting indeed.
If you haven't read this book yet, better do it now, sooner than later. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dart Ambermoon |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 19:49:15
Sadly, ītis true concerning the translations. I bought and read the novels in English, but then had a chance to browse the translated version a friend of mine owned.
But this really is a general trend with FR novels in German, from straight translation errors over extreme creative freedom of some translations (the God Bane was renamed Tyrannos for some reason in the Avatar series) right down to the fact that many translators seem to know jack about the Realms or Fantasy in general.
Different manners of speech are non-existant (e.g. in the RAS books thereīs hardly a difference between Bruenor or Alustriel talking in the translations), which steals a lot of flair and disfigures the original style of the authors. And it makes the Realms-flair disappear.
Itīs really a shame because there are very good translations of Fantasy available in Germany (e.g. Steven Eriksonīs "Malazan Book of the Fallen" if I may be forgiven for quoting a non-Realmsian book.)
With regards to only one trilogy being available in German language...Iīve never-ever understood that companyīs method of deciding which novels to publish. In all honesty. I was surprised to see them publish Counselors and Kings, and not any of the Dan/Arylin series(though I thought it might have s.th.to do with the first of those being part of the Harper series). But as far as translations, I just donīt get "it". There are so many (decently) translated Dragonlance novels in German (which are good sellers afaik), that one would expect them to be able to do better...a lot better. It is really sad for loss of potential readers (and gamers) and also sad in respect to the fine work of the FR authors.
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| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 16:33:37
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
The Counselors & Kings trilogy are the only books of mine that have been translated into German. I've never taken time to read them--I don't read German well, so for me the translation process is laborious--but people whose opinions I respect tell me the translation was . . . disappointing.
Maybe that's why there's only that one trilogy available in German?
Since I have bought Counselors & Kings in english I cannot say anything about the quality of the German translation on my own. So I have quickly read through the reader reviews on amazon.de. What almost instantly catch your eyes are statements about the "abysmal quality of the translation" ("like a translation program") and "many errors as if there were no proofreader". From my experiences with the (German) Elminster series I can imagine what one has to expect from "Ratgeber und Regenten" very well (the first book is titled "Der Bluthund" -> the bloodhound). |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 15:24:37
I've heard that joke, Woolie. Actually, I grew up with this theme running in the background, so I heard a LOT of jokes like this. My father grew up in Poland, and, like many Europeans, could speak several languages. He had German and English throughout school, and of course Latin. He grew up near the Russian border and could get along in Russian, and years later lived among Ukranians in the prairie region of Alberta, Canada, so he picked up that Slavic language, as well. And because he had so much Latin, he was able to pick up Italian when he was there during the war. He once mentioned that people in Italy frequently thought he was a priest because there was so much Latin sprinkled into his Italian, and observed drolly, "I got lots of respect, but not many girl friends..."
It's ironic, then, that my father was vehemently against concessions for languages other than English in the US. He figured that if you move here, you speak English. Period. So we grew up with English. Period. Which is a shame. I picked up a little Polish and German from my grandmother, but I really wish we'd had the experience of a bilingual household. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 15:13:12
The Counselors & Kings trilogy are the only books of mine that have been translated into German. I've never taken time to read them--I don't read German well, so for me the translation process is laborious--but people whose opinions I respect tell me the translation was . . . disappointing.
Maybe that's why there's only that one trilogy available in German? |
| Fillow |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 14:02:35
quote:
Fillow, your skill in English serious undercuts this modest disclaimer. When it comes to linguistic arrogance, no one can beat the Americans. We just don't bother with other languages, assuming that everyone else should speak English. It's not one of our more attractive qualities.
Thanks a lot for this nice commentar Wooly Rupert ! quote:
"What do you call someone who speaks three languages?"
A: Trilingual
"What do you call someone who speaks two languages?"
A: Bilingual
"What do you call someone who speaks one language?"
A: American!
What do you call someone who does not even speak his complete native language ?
A French |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 12:32:40
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
French people initiated a war with foreign languages long long time ago. And we're some irreparable idlers ! 
Fillow, your skill in English serious undercuts this modest disclaimer. When it comes to linguistic arrogance, no one can beat the Americans. We just don't bother with other languages, assuming that everyone else should speak English. It's not one of our more attractive qualities.
I've actually heard a joke about that...
"What do you call someone who speaks three languages?"
A: Trilingual
"What do you call someone who speaks two languages?"
A: Bilingual
"What do you call someone who speaks one language?"
A: American! |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 11:58:37
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
Tthat was a real good wish but the French editor seems to decide to stop his translating FR novels. no sells enough ! $-Ģ--Power
The last translated novel is Resurrection, the 84th one.
We're afraid they stop before the 90th one.
That's a little surprising. According to my royalty statements, the French translations sell better than most. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 May 2007 : 11:51:45
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
French people initiated a war with foreign languages long long time ago. And we're some irreparable idlers !
Fillow, your skill in English seriously undercuts this modest disclaimer. When it comes to linguistic arrogance, no one can beat the Americans. We just don't bother with other languages, assuming that everyone else should speak English. It's not one of our more attractive qualities.
I should also point out that few young Americans would use the phrase "irreparable idlers." A more likely expression would be, "We're, like, really lazy..."  |
| Dart Ambermoon |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 17:14:31
"Lurch"? Seriously...?   |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 23 May 2007 : 16:28:40
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
Whoa, and here I thought German translations were terrible, but thatīs really worse.
The differences can really be immense.
I have just finished reading the Elminster series from Ed Greenwood and started "The Magehound". Buying the Elminster series in German translation was a big mistake, because the translation is absolutely awful (e. g. translating "lich" with "Lurch", which means "amphibian, batrachian" - one of many mistakes). I don't think that I will buy realms novels in German translation ever again.
The Magehound is a very exciting and interesting reading experience so far. Having acquired the original english version, of course, the story has caught me right from the beginning, even more so because I really like Halruaa, the land and its history. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 18:34:05
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
Therefore my best hopes to Fillow and other French readers for improved translations in the future, it would be sad if they missed out on good novels, because of shabby translations.
that was a real good wish but the French editor seems to decide to stop his translating FR novels.
no sells enough ! $-Ģ--Power
The last translated novel is Resurrection, the 84th one.
We're afraid they stop before the 90th one.
But the good piece of news is that we will rush to get the original versions, and so will perfect our English language.
We don't do it now because you know,... French people initiated a war with foreign languages long long time ago.
And we're some irreparable idlers ! |
| Dart Ambermoon |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 02:07:06
Whoa, and here I thought German translations were terrible, but thatīs really worse.
The differences can really be immense. I know of two of my friends who didnīt really like the trilogy after having read it in German, but then, after I "forced" them to battle through the original versions (PC from my group: "My English isnīt good enough. I wonīt understand..." DM: "This here Black Dragon of the Auld Wyrm variety says you will...if you love your character enough...*cough*"), they felt as if it had been almost different novels.
Therefore my best hopes to Fillow and other French readers for improved translations in the future, it would be sad if they missed out on good novels, because of shabby translations. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 17:14:18
Whouaouhhhh !
I'm a newbie in this forum and Miss Cunningham, the real one, is writing to me about sometimes I asked !
I'm really honored and emotionned.
Thanks a lot.
quote:
I don't speak or read French fluently
It's about the same for me about English you know !
You're totally right about the "cuts" of the French Editor, "named Fleuve Noir". What is the worst in this act from him is that French readers often think that this poor narrative, descriptive,... style is because of the originbal authors.
so, in name of French Faerûnian readers, I apologize to you.
To repair this false judgment, I write as often as possible that our French novels are amputated in the forums I log into.
once again, thanks so very much dear Miss Cunningham for having answer ti me and for all you do for our pleasure. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 14:01:49
The French translations tend to be considerably shorter than the originals. I don't speak or read French fluently, but I can follow it well enough to know that much of the battle choreography and even whole subplots are left out. The dialogue is shortened rather drastically, and narrative, especially descriptions, trimmed to the bone. The French translations I've read tell you ABOUT the story. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 21:40:30
Allright.
I now undertand the scene. I think the french translation is not a full version.
Thanks a lot. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 21:38:25
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
I unearth this topic because I just ended The Magehound and there is a point I did not understand.
At the beginning of the chapter VIII, after Matteo was put in jail, Kiva uses a peasant man in the nearby stature of Matteo and takes him up to the jordaini College. There, she meets a master who has a strange behavior and... nothing! They make an agreement and the peasant man, up to now, has to be in front of the College waiting !
Anybody understood anything about it?
Maybe it is a problem of translation. The frnch editor sometimes cut some parts of stories without caring of the adventure !
It's been quite some time since I read the trilogy, so I'm going from memory, here... Jordaini are castrated to keep them from reproducing. The peasant (who was, I believe, related to Matteo) was substituted for Matteo. For whatever reason, Kiva wanted to keep Matteo intact.
At least, that's my recollection of it. The actual book is in storage, since I'll be moving soon, so I can't check. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 17 May 2007 : 20:48:53
I unearth this topic because I just ended The Magehound and there is a point I did not understand.
At the beginning of the chapter VIII, after Matteo was put in jail, Kiva uses a peasant man in the nearby stature of Matteo and takes him up to the jordaini College. There, she meets a master who has a strange behavior and... nothing! They make an agreement and the peasant man, up to now, has to be in front of the College waiting !
Anybody understood anything about it?
Maybe it is a problem of translation. The frnch editor sometimes cut some parts of stories without caring of the adventure ! |
| Songrimm |
Posted - 23 May 2005 : 03:31:50
I wonder if anyone also had trouble following the final battle or if it is just the crappy german translation   . when i read a book i try to imagine the scene before my inner eyes. but this battle was quite difficult to follow. it is my impression that all the characters were teleporting from one place to the other, just reaching their destination in time to make an impact.
anyone else this feeling? |
| Moonharp |
Posted - 23 Aug 2004 : 19:46:30
As to the original statement on the Ilithyri drow that were mentioned in the Magehound (amazing book, read it three times so far), they are not totally un-referenced...
In Ms.Cunningham's other novel, Evermeet: The Island of Elves, there is quite a mension of the Ilithyri, as they play a key part in the history of the gold and moon elves.
The Ilithyri were dark elves (though they did not call themselves drow at their absolute beginning, assuming the title only later) and at first they worshiped Vheraun, instead of the Spider Queen... This changed when Lloth emerged from the abyss and found herself attracted to the lich lord of the city (his name escapes me, but it sounded drow). He had lived for a very long time, and was a founder of the city (we first hear of him when he encounters Sharlario Moonflower, the leader of the mo0n elves). The Spider Queen was hungry for power and vengance over the gold and moon elves of the north (the Ilithyri lived in the south, present day Halruaa)... so she became a consort ("queen" - forgive the pun...) for the lich, and helped guide him according to her viles. Eventually, during the Crown Wars - at least I think it was the Crown Wars - the Ilithyri were driven Below, and were not seen on the surface in any major way since.
Please excuse any information that may not be exact - it has been a while since I read Evermeet...
P.S. - Before the moderators catch me, the book Murder in Halruaa is not as well written as the Counselors and Kings series, but it offers valid information for the region, as well as a very interesting twist in the end. I enjoyed the C&K series more, but this was the only other tome I could find on the area, so I decided to read it as well.
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| Alaundo |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 19:53:36
Well met
Ahem  I believe we were discussing The Magehound? Well, some time ago anyway.... back to it, if you please, fellow scribes. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 18:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by Valdar Oakensong
Richard Meyers is the man, not read the book yet though. Can't find out much about him, if your'e interested try http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Richard_Meyers.htm
Thanks for the link. Nice synopsis of the book there. I've never heard of the author before this mention. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 18:12:49
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
That's not true! The old 2E booklet (a 96-page softbound) was entitled The Shining South, while the new 3.5E product (a 192-page hardcover) is known simply as Shining South. Not the same at all!
Well, thank you for clearing that up!
Indeed! I see now that my post could have created much confusion, so I thank you for kindly stepping in to help out!  |
| Valdar Oakensong |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 17:46:26
Just found this on ebay, only 3 hours left though
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2544&item=5915193040&rd=1&ssPageName=WD2V |
| Valdar Oakensong |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 17:42:18
Richard Meyers is the man, not read the book yet though. Can't find out much about him, if your'e interested try http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Richard_Meyers.htm
Who is the author for Murder in Halruaa?
[/quote] |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 17:29:25
quote:
Originally posted by Panador
btw. If you want to write spoilers, just do it, I'll read them anyway.
Yes, but some scribes might blow a fuse if someone puts out spoilers without it being stated in the thread's title or properly hidden. |
| Panador |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 17:05:20
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Panador
Also the Cabal are merely mentioned a few times in the book and don't appear once, another mistake.
Er. Have you read the whole of the trilogy...?
quote:
In the whole book there's only one little situation near the end of the book where there's mentioned the possibility that Matteo has magich within himself - and that was wrong as Andris was the one with the magic spark due to his elf blood.
Okay, obviously you haven't read the whole trilogy. Spoiler, highlight to read: Matteo can sense the Shadow Weave and, to an extent, use it.
1. Yeah, I haven only read The Magehound until now but I intend to order the other books in the next few days.
2. Ah, thanks for the (damm, a lot of mistakes, I'm dizzy  ) spoiler... Hm, the Shadow Weave again... I like that
btw. If you want to write spoilers, just do it, I'll read them anyway. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 16:14:55
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
That's not true! The old 2E booklet (a 96-page softbound) was entitled The Shining South, while the new 3.5E product (a 192-page hardcover) is known simply as Shining South. Not the same at all!
Well, thank you for clearing that up! |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 16:12:59
quote:
Originally posted by Valdar Oakensong
Keep an eye on ebay for Murder in Halruaa, it turns up quite often. I think I paid about $10 for the hardback- shipping was more!
Who is the author for Murder in Halruaa? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 16:11:51
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I'll refrain from saying, "I told you so." ;)
If you make a point to note you'll refrain from saying something, does it still count as a complete omission?
Thank you again for motivating me to give the series a try. |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 21 Aug 2004 : 14:53:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the name of the 2E tome is the same as the name of the upcoming one.
That's not true! The old 2E booklet (a 96-page softbound) was entitled The Shining South, while the new 3.5E product (a 192-page hardcover) is known simply as Shining South. Not the same at all!
(In case it's not apparent, I did not choose the title of the new product).
Thomas |
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