| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kuje |
Posted - 03 May 2004 : 20:23:34
Has any one seen this on the shelves yet? It's May...... Sure it's only the 3rd but I was curious. :) |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| quajack |
Posted - 09 Nov 2006 : 15:16:27
I thought this was Ed's best work since the first El novel. Here is my slight criticism: I would have prefered it if the book's title had been different and that the revelation that El has a daughter had been revealed in the novel as a suprise. This would have been entirely possible as the novel did not really focus on their relationship until the end.
I just think it would have been a great "personal reading moment" if I was a few hundred pages in and it was revealed that Narnra and El were kin. I'm a sucker for unexpected suprises. |
| bitter thorn |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 17:52:41
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I for one want the characters. FR is about it's characters and thier lives. Not the slaughter or the changes or the RSE's. :(
Well spoken! |
| scererar |
Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 05:04:54
besides the never ending chase, I thought the book was great. When I was reading through the chase portion of the book, I never wanted to put it down, hoping it would end and get on with the story, but it just kept going and going and going and going, oh and did I say going?? |
| Beezy |
Posted - 02 Oct 2005 : 07:42:34
It just seemed to me that the first half of the book was just a never ending chase scene. Half way through the book it improved quite a bit and near the end it started to get really good once you were introduced to Vangey's plan. |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 02 Oct 2005 : 05:30:56
I kept wondering when the chase would end. It was a cool scene but seriously needed to be cut down at alot of places.
Which brings me to another question. Elminster in Hell had 400+ pages but yet this one only has 378 pages (paperback). Why couldn't the editor allow the page count to increase to 400+ so that the ending wouldn't have seemed so rushed and confusing but at the same time, allowing that chase scene to continue nicely? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 21:20:56
The chase scene was indeed longer than it really needed to be, but it was so funny I didn't even care. It made me laugh out loud. |
| khorne |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 18:49:46
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I thought the chase scene could have been cut down quite a bit and use those freed up pages to work out the ending alittle better. It had a rushed feeling to it and some parts were alittle confusing to me and I had to read parts of it multiple times. It was an above average book overall.
One of the funniest parts of the book was when Narnra ran through that kitchen. I never could have imagined that Marsemban cooks were that dangerous. |
| Beezy |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 18:27:05
I thought the chase scene could have been cut down quite a bit and use those freed up pages to work out the ending alittle better. It had a rushed feeling to it and some parts were alittle confusing to me and I had to read parts of it multiple times. It was an above average book overall. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 15:36:09
Paec, while I disagree with a lot of what you said, and this is actually one of my favorite of Ed's Elminster books, its always nice to read a reveiw by someone that can be critical and not just rake someone over the coals. Thoughtful analysis is a good thing! |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 11:31:24
Okay, I've finally finished reading this novel and I must say, this is definitely the best Greenwood novel to date and surely one of the better Realmsian novels. It had a lot of flaws, but I can tell you there were so many good stuff in them that this flaws are very minor if you look at it from a wider perspective.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS MINOR OR MAJOR (DEPENDING ON WHAT MY MIND DECIDES TO COMMENT ABOUT SPONTANEOUSLY) BELOW
Plot
Overall, there are many plotlines in this story, many of which end up meeting at the end. We see plots involving many players and short cameos by others.
None of this plots felt cliched to me except Darkspells's ambitions, a typical villain for me. The multiple plotlines for me was what made the story excellent. I never got tired of switching between plots and I was always driven to continue reading. There were also scenes which seemed to go on too long *cough*Narnra chase*cough* but didn't hurt the plot much. (Note: I did like the Narnra chase scene but I felt it could have been shorter)
The ending felt rushed and was rather confusing to me and I had many unanswered questions by the end of this novel (I'll come to that later). Too many things, it seemed happened at once and stuff happened to coincidentally for me to grasp.
Characters & Development
There are MANY characters featured in this novel and most of them are given suitable time to develop depending on their role in the story. It's understandable considering the fact that Ed loves all his characters and would love to give them the same amount of focus time.
Surprisingly while the book's title hints at Elminster and Narnra being the focal point of the book, they don't seem to receive the most "screentime" but instead this time is equally shared out by the other plots. In fact, a part from all the pivotal moments in the story where El is required, he was almost never in the novel at all.
The development between Myrmeen Lhal and Vangerdahast was rather rushed but I had a feeling it would be coming. After all, it was said that Vangey wanted a female companion as well as leaving his legacy before that.
Glarasteer was a quick favorite of mind as soon as he burst on scene during the epic chase scene. He's determination and the way he worked was excellent and that chase scene was all I needed to scream "I WANT MORE OF GLARASTEER RHAULIGAN." The part where he and the Highknights came onto the Rightful Conspiracy at the end also just added to my favoritism of him.
The villain on the other hand was Harnrim "Darkspells" Starangh. For me, he was the typical devious villain and did alot of cliched things. Manipulate person, use person to advantage, kill person. Nothing was really interesting about him. He didn't have much of a backstory either.
There are many other lovely characters to speak about--from the minor cameos to the full length feature--but I don't want to waste my time.
Originality
The plotting and conspiracy stuff seems rather new to me. I haven't read the Cormyr series, but from the novel it seems like the Cormyr series when into this theme before. I'm not sure, but to me it's original.
The stasis spell Vangerdahast was working on also was rather original and was one of the factors contributing to me pressing on to finish the novel just to find out what would happen.
The part where Joysil turns out to be Narnra's mother seemed rather predictable but at the same time was too coincidential to be true. As I said before, there were many parts that seemed coincidential (especially towards the end) and this was not the only one. Filfaeril and Laspeera turning out to be El's Daughters were both coincidential and shocking to me. But unfortunately, apart from the few lines stating this news, it seemed as if that part was forced and didn't seem too original to me.
Writing Style
Honestly, I don't really like Ed Greenwood's novels because of the way he writes them. Some parts are terribly hard to understand. This was one of the major flaws in Elminster in Hell and also returned here but wasn't as bad. This flaw is most noticable near the ending where everything happens so fast and you're not helped by the writing style. Nonetheless, by re-reading and reading slowly, I managed to pull through with only a few questions (though there could've been more)
Ed's style of including lots of nudity and sexual themes within his novels doesn't really annoy me much but once it happens alot it sorts of makes it seem weird in a way. Thankfully the amount was tolerable in this novel. Some of the nudity also seemed unnecessary like a few of Myrmeen's topless scenes in the sanctum.
Setting and Flavor
Mostly in Cormyr with some visits to Waterdeep, Candlekeep and Shadowdale. The setting which gave me the most flavor, is probably the sanctum and the area around it. The book focuses on mostly touched areas so there really isn't much detailing to do and that might have helped to save pages for more important scenes.
X-Factor
I'm not a big fan of Elminster. But what I think is some of the X-factors for making this book great is Glarasteer Rhauligan, Vangerdahast's binding spell, the multiple characters, dragons and cameos and also the multiple plotlines.
Now for some of the questions:
1. How come Elminster came to Narnra's rescue in her form? And who did Glarasteer see at first and throw the dagger at? Elminster or Darkspells?
2. Why did the dragons attack the War Wizards and Red Wizards while they battled? I thought they wanted to go straight for Vangey. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 04:31:18
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, I can reveal that the story is very short, and that its focus is Lhaeo's character (contrasted with Elminster being his usual gruffly, crotchety annoying self). 
love,
THO
Thanks THO.
I hope we have the opportunity to see this tale in print some day  .
|
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:14:28
Well, I can reveal that the story is very short, and that its focus is Lhaeo's character (contrasted with Elminster being his usual gruffly, crotchety annoying self).
love,
THO |
| ode904 |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 22:32:37
Heh here in Finland we have one jsut Making of the Mage.
Elmister in Hell is coming in this fall. And im waiting for Elmister's Daughter which likely comes in the spring |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 15:38:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Krash, Ed wrote that tale to ‘nail down’ Lhaeo’s character. He did this for all important Realms NPCs (“important” really meaning those we Knights had lots of contact with, not necessarily rulers or heads of priesthoods), usually with a “coming of age” story. I guess he chose this encounter instead because it’s when he brought Lhaeo onstage, in his own mind. However, I shouldn’t presume to speak for him in this, and will ask him (as soon as he’s handed in the late project he and a certain aficionado of castles are currently toiling away on).
In the meantime, have this hug and kiss from me. 
VEDSICA, glad you liked it, and I’ll send your reactions along to Ed right away.
THO
Any chance you could elaborate more of this tale involving Lhaeo's past THO? I understand that there'll likely be certain restrictions as such, but I'd like to at least try to know as much about this particular tale as is legally possible...
|
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 15:21:34
Krash, Ed wrote that tale to ‘nail down’ Lhaeo’s character. He did this for all important Realms NPCs (“important” really meaning those we Knights had lots of contact with, not necessarily rulers or heads of priesthoods), usually with a “coming of age” story. I guess he chose this encounter instead because it’s when he brought Lhaeo onstage, in his own mind. However, I shouldn’t presume to speak for him in this, and will ask him (as soon as he’s handed in the late project he and a certain aficionado of castles are currently toiling away on).
In the meantime, have this hug and kiss from me.
VEDSICA, glad you liked it, and I’ll send your reactions along to Ed right away.
THO
|
| VEDSICA |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 03:49:17
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yeah, and poor El is moving even slower than Vangey these days, at least according to his own report, lol.
I got a laugh out of that one myself.I just finished this book,and enjoyed it very much.A few heavy hitters in it that played good parts.I liked Vangerdahast's plan.What a great accomplishment to devise spells to bind dragons.The one part that didn't like,and it's not really that I didn't like it.I just knew what was going to happen.Was when Glarasteer was chasing Narnra.It seemed to go on forever,and you knew he was catching her no matter what.But if that's all I have to complain about.I really shouldn't complain at all.Great work as always Ed!!!!!! |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 04:34:29
Yeah, and poor El is moving even slower than Vangey these days, at least according to his own report, lol. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 22:51:11
About time? Huh? Even a quick scan through Ed Greenwood's books shows or refers to at least a dozen times Elminster's had his "nose rubbed in it."
If it can be called promiscuity at all. After all, the character has been alive for more than a thousand years. That's a LOT of "normal lifetimes" to, er, enjoy partners in. |
| LordEverhate |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 04:15:34
All I have to say is it is about time George Carlin..er..I mean Elminster got his promisquity thrown back in his face. :P |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 15:17:34
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Ed's story re the first meeting between Lhaeo and the Old Mage would be a treat to read.
It would make a perfect article for Ed's Realmslore column  .
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 15:10:43
"Lands of Intrigue" (Tethyr - p.35) deals with this issue and notes that Lhaeo was given into the care of his protector(s) two months after he was born. The text doesn't specify who looked after him, implies that it was more than one person (i.e. not just Elminster) and is couched with little or no detail - in other words, leaving it free for 'canonisation'. Ed's story re the first meeting between Lhaeo and the Old Mage would be a treat to read. Did Ed write it for a particular purpose, THO?
-- George Krashos
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 15:03:37
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Can any learned scribes here point us at specific published references?
I believe Lands of Intrigue has details on Lhaeo's "adoption".
I can't recall which page though, as it has been a while since I've read through that particular tome.
|
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 14:50:03
DDH, Ed wrote a little short story describing their meeting (and El taking Lhaeo on) years ago. I’ve read it, and so have most of the Knights, but it remains unpublished (and no, isn’t in “Best of Eddie”). I’ll forward your query to him, as a goad to remind him to try to get it published (DRAGON? WotC website? In another Best of Eddie collection?).
As far as I know, published Realmslore is silent on the topic of exactly how El and Lhaeo met and their lives together began. Can any learned scribes here point us at specific published references?
And I can confirm that no, Noumea ISN’T the “second Lhaeo.”
love to all,
THO
|
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 06:02:00
Speaking of Lhaeo, does anyone actually know how Elminster and Lhaeo met? And how it came to that Elminster, such a picky and eccentric person, would accept him as his scribe and apprentice? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 05:21:44
To highlight this novel's paperback release, WOTC's site has a wallpaper and screensaver for this novel. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 14:00:04
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I agree with Kuje's analysis. I would say that Noumea Fairbright isn't the second "Lhaeo". Uncle Ed would never make it that obvious! We'll all have to wait and see, I guess, re her identity.
-- George Krashos
Indeed, as we'd said earlier. Ed's already mentioned that he's taking extra care to not make the complete details about the "new" Lhaeo... obvious.
I for one, am looking forward to what we will eventually learn about the second Lhaeo.
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 07:58:53
I agree with Kuje's analysis. I would say that Noumea Fairbright isn't the second "Lhaeo". Uncle Ed would never make it that obvious! We'll all have to wait and see, I guess, re her identity.
-- George Krashos
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 04:08:28
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... but Kuje, the event actually didn't take place during Elminster in Hell. The event was just one of Elminster's memories that Nergal was going through. It had happened before the Sage of Shadowdale was trapped in the Nine Hells.
I had always assumed that the little event was told to reveal who would replace Lhaeo after he went back to Tethyr.
It doesn't matter. From the hardback version, "When Sembian's Stop for Tea (the memory in Chap 13) on the afternoon of Elesias in 1364 FR, the Year of the Wave (it should be noted that Noumea Fairbright is no relation to Noumea Drathculd, who was then Magister).
The Lands of Intrigue box set says the original Lhaeo didn't appear until 1368. The memory was four years before this event, so it doesn't make much sense for Lhaeo to have a replacement during 1364 to 1368, which is when Noumea arrived at El's tower. Noumea then wandered around in 1372/1373 in Elminster's Daughter.
I suppose she could have stayed at the tower for four years until Lhaeo left but I see nothing that clearly says that she is the female that took Lhaeo's form. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 03:59:44
Hmm... but Kuje, the event actually didn't take place during Elminster in Hell. The event was just one of Elminster's memories that Nergal was going through. It had happened before the Sage of Shadowdale was trapped in the Nine Hells.
I had always assumed that the little event was told to reveal who would replace Lhaeo after he went back to Tethyr. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 03:12:24
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Kuje, from page 227 to 234 in Elminster in Hell. A woman named Lady Calabrista brings several women from Sembia to Elminster's tower for him to tutor them. Of course, a Red Wizard pops in through the window and tries to ambush Elminster. However, one of the ladies, Noumea Fairbright, pulls out a wand of ever-searing flame and blasts him away. Afterwards, she is accepted by the Sage of Shadowdale and she makes an appearance in Elminster's Daughter.
Of course, I guess this is based on my assumption so it may not be correct.
Is that the hardback or the paperback? Chapter's are better as I asked. :) Edit: Found it. :) 193 to 198. The hardback version says that event took place in 1364, so I guess it's possible but seems odd that the original Lhaeo would stick around for 4 years before leaving.
And it doesn't add up that she would be the replacement scribe because the original Lhaeo left in 1368 and that was 4 years before El in Hell, which is when she arrived at El's tower.... The whole point of keeping up the disguise was to protect the original Lhaeo so that others wouldn't know the original Lhaeo was now a king. |
