| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Drumheller |
Posted - 31 May 2020 : 02:58:51
I'm behind on the times and just starting to dig into the Realms, both as a game setting and the novels.
Was there any announced reason why Wizards is no longer publishing Forgotten Realms or any D&D novels?
Just wondering.
Thanks,
Drumheller |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 23:53:12
Mr. Byers,
quote:
I have to admit that for a number of reasons, I haven't fenced in a while. It is great fun, though, and I miss it. Like other forms of exercise, it's good for you too, although, also like other forms of sport, it can create its own sort of problems if you do it for long enough. After a couple decades, it was rough on my knees, and there's also the issue that it develops the body asymmetrically. These days I go to the gym (or did before COVID-19), and while that's not nearly as much fun, it's probably even better for me health- and fitness-wise.
I can only imagine in the sport of fencing. I boxed in our Army and I get the assymetric movements. It doesn't seem to go easier on a person as they age, that is for sure.
quote:
Fencing isn't the easiest sport to learn. There's probably not a single posture or action in fencing that is something the body would naturally do otherwise. But if you're interested, it's worth trying, and you don't have to get good (I don't know that I ever got better than mediocre, and that only with epee, not foil or sabre) to have fun.
It looks like it is extremely difficult, from observing motions of the body, etc. Lateral movement in boxing is very important so you can move with the motion of your punches to maximize power on delivery. It seems like it is much more technical in subtle movements. Though, that is just from observation, and not experience.
Best regards,
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 23:33:23
I have to admit that for a number of reasons, I haven't fenced in a while. It is great fun, though, and I miss it. Like other forms of exercise, it's good for you too, although, also like other forms of sport, it can create its own sort of problems if you do it for long enough. After a couple decades, it was rough on my knees, and there's also the issue that it develops the body asymmetrically. These days I go to the gym (or did before COVID-19), and while that's not nearly as much fun, it's probably even better for me health- and fitness-wise.
Fencing isn't the easiest sport to learn. There's probably not a single posture or action in fencing that is something the body would naturally do otherwise. But if you're interested, it's worth trying, and you don't have to get good (I don't know that I ever got better than mediocre, and that only with epee, not foil or sabre) to have fun. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 22:40:42
Mr. Byers,
No, not at all. I have no idea what it is like to be an author, so I have no way to speak to it or the experience.
quote:
I did read the article, though. Unless I missed something, it doesn't address the cancelation of the novel line unless, perhaps, by implication.
I believed it to be by implication there, and Bruce Cordell came out and admitted it was partially to do with closing the lore gap between new and old users. Effectively to eliminate that barrier to enter.
quote:
You asked my opinion of it, but since, as I explained, I was never a company insider, I don't have the background that would let me form an informed, intelligent opinion.
Fair enough.
quote:
I will say that if 4th edition and the changes it brought to the Realms were the problem, it's ironic because THE REAVER and the other five books in that series were written specifically to undo changes that 4e had brought to the Realms that many fans disliked. So from that perspective, it's too bad readers never got to see what we novelists would have done with the restored Realms.
Yeah, I feel like it was the impossible task. By the way, in no way is that meant as a critique on your writing of course. Fan rage can be impossible to quell it seems at times (the Realms, and look at the Star Wars rage too). I think the books just came after too much damage, namely Bruce Cordell confirming what was alleged, but until that interview, not 100% confirmed. I feel it was like Grand Coulee breaking, and trying to erect something to stop it when the water was already pouring down range.
On a completely separate note: wow, I had no idea you were a fencer! That looks brutally difficult to learn, but must keep you in shape for sure!
Best regards,
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 21:57:05
It may sound like heresy, but if I'm being honest, I'm not really that interested anymore. I liked writing Forgotten Realms fiction, but I moved on and have written many other things since I had the plug pulled on me. It's kind of ancient history to me now.
I did read the article, though. Unless I missed something, it doesn't address the cancelation of the novel line unless, perhaps, by implication. You asked my opinion of it, but since, as I explained, I was never a company insider, I don't have the background that would let me form an informed, intelligent opinion.
I will say that if 4th edition and the changes it brought to the Realms were the problem, it's ironic because THE REAVER and the other five books in that series were written specifically to undo changes that 4e had brought to the Realms that many fans disliked. So from that perspective, it's too bad readers never got to see what we novelists would have done with the restored Realms. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 21:12:42
Mr. Byers,
quote:
As to why the decision to kill the line was made, I don't know. You have to understand, I was not a company employee privy to such discussions. I was just a freelancer hired for certain projects. I can speculate that the novels weren't making enough money to make it seem worth the trouble of putting them out, at least in the eyes of some executive at Hasbro, WotC's parent company, or maybe that guy simply thought, "Hey, we're a game company, not a book company, so to hell with this." Again, let me stress that this is purely speculation on my part.
If you're so interested, this article I am linking to is from a former VP of WotC, Ryan Dancey. It seems to articulate well what the reasons were from a business perspective, as opposed to Bruce Cordell's explanation in Dungeon #366 in his interview. If you read it, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on it.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/wotc-ddi-4e-and-hasbro-some-history.661470/
Best regards,
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 16:24:46
Okay, so I have a crappy sense of time. I went back and checked, and damned if THE REAVER (my final Realms novel) didn't come out in 2014. Less than a decade ago even if it feels like a long time ago to me. I stick by my fundamental point, though, that the decision to end the Realms novel line predates the Hickman/Weis lawsuit by years.
There had been verbal discussions of the books I meant to write after THE REAVER, but WotC never offered me a contract, and after some months had gone by I figured out that things had changed and they had no intention of ever doing those books.
During that period, new Realms books were being published, but I believe that was because they had already been contracted for. I don't think anybody was getting any new contracts.
As to why the decision to kill the line was made, I don't know. You have to understand, I was not a company employee privy to such discussions. I was just a freelancer hired for certain projects. I can speculate that the novels weren't making enough money to make it seem worth the trouble of putting them out, at least in the eyes of some executive at Hasbro, WotC's parent company, or maybe that guy simply thought, "Hey, we're a game company, not a book company, so to hell with this." Again, let me stress that this is purely speculation on my part.
John Daker, I'm glad you liked BLOOD OF BAALSHANDOR. Thanks for taking the time tot ell me so. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 06:50:41
Senior Scribe Delnyn,
You make a valid point good sir. Perhaps it may be referred to as: "ATTMRESP." Actions Taken That Makes Realms Enthusiasts Sad Property.
I think it makes more sense, personally. haha
Best regards,
|
| Delnyn |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 02:41:48
I am not sure where to find the "Intellectual" in IP.
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Senior Scribe Delnyn,
quote:
All legal squabbles aside, did WoTC say anything offical to the effect of: "We are the the game business, not the novel business." ? If that is the case, then either independent business must take over the market niche, or people like we do. Not that the latter two groups are mutually exclusive. 
I'd love this, but I can't see WotC letting anyone get their hands on those IP's for purposes of getting novels out.
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 00:03:50
Senior Scribe Delnyn,
quote:
All legal squabbles aside, did WoTC say anything offical to the effect of: "We are the the game business, not the novel business." ? If that is the case, then either independent business must take over the market niche, or people like we do. Not that the latter two groups are mutually exclusive.
I'd love this, but I can't see WotC letting anyone get their hands on those IP's for purposes of getting novels out.
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 00:01:10
Mr. Byers,
quote:
The decision to kill the Forgotten Realms novel line predates the Hickman/Weis lawsuit by more than a decade, so I don't think that can have anything to do with the initial decision. It may have something to do with quelling any enthusiasm anybody at the company had for revisiting the decision.
Well, there you have it, from an author of the Realms! I didn't realize it was that long ago. I stopped paying a much attention after 4e came out, so I didn't know. Thanks for making that clear though!
EDIT: **Adding a question**
Mr. Byers, do you know what led to that initial decision killing the novel line?
Best regards,
|
| John Daker |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 18:33:45
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
The decision to kill the Forgotten Realms novel line predates the Hickman/Weis lawsuit by more than a decade, so I don't think that can have anything to do with the initial decision. It may have something to do with quelling any enthusiasm anybody at the company had for revisiting the decision.
Wow, really? That long ago? I believe you—but that's interesting. I thought the decision must have been made around 2014 or so. From 2011–2016 there were more than forty Realms novels published. I guess maybe they decided in 2010 to wind down the line over the following six years?
(While I've got your attention—and if I may be permitted to briefly cross the fandom streams—I quite liked The Blood of Baalshandor.) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 15:38:43
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
All legal squabbles aside, did WoTC say anything offical to the effect of: "We are the the game business, not the novel business." ? If that is the case, then either independent business must take over the market niche, or people like we do. Not that the latter two groups are mutually exclusive.
I don't believe it was ever officially stated, it was more the way their leadership ran things. |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 15:07:45
All legal squabbles aside, did WoTC say anything offical to the effect of: "We are the the game business, not the novel business." ? If that is the case, then either independent business must take over the market niche, or people like we do. Not that the latter two groups are mutually exclusive. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 14:33:06
The decision to kill the Forgotten Realms novel line predates the Hickman/Weis lawsuit by more than a decade, so I don't think that can have anything to do with the initial decision. It may have something to do with quelling any enthusiasm anybody at the company had for revisiting the decision. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 09:21:44
Acolyte Drumheller,
As a consequence of recent news, it very well may be related to allegations included within court filings submitted by Margaret Weis LLC and Tracy Hickman in their suit against WotC: https://www.scribd.com/document/480694976/Weis-and-Hickman-v-WoTC
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 06 Nov 2020 : 23:42:36
Acolyte Drumheller,
I would imagine that there is a strategic marketing reason (think product development, not advertisement here) behind this decision. The amount of lore that goes into the novels, accessories, is of course enormous. The cross-section of people that a command of that material with the skill set to translate that into a novel makes that a pretty niche group of people. As that lorebase develops over time, that could lead to those authors to command more pay, etc. Companies, unless the amount of money they are making is preposterous, don't like to get pigeonholed into that situation. Now, admittedly, I have no idea what their margins were for those novels, but to develop that product line in a way where you can tell investors it is solid for an investment takes a lot of work, and I wonder if they just didn't feel comfortable doing it for that lack of control.
Best regards,
|
| mastermustard |
Posted - 14 Oct 2020 : 09:29:31
quote:
Originally posted by Asjo
When I was younger, not as many fantasy set in the Dungeons & Dragons universe had come out. I read what I could find in the library. I read the Dragon Lance series and no more than a few books with the Forgotten Realms setting. I read comic books based on the Drizzt universe, and I remember it intrigued me, particular since I'm very fascinated with strong and dominant women.
Many years later, I did borrow a few more books to read at the library. However, it was only once I started to get into audiobooks a few years ago that I really got into the Forgotten Realms universe. First, I listened through everything from R.A. Salvatore, only remembering later that I actually knew some of the stories already, having read a book or two. And now I've been going through everything I can find related to Forgotten Realms. I listen to some audiobooks on my laptop as I go to sleep, and others on my MP3 player as I take the bus and other transport. Sometimes I bring my laptop into my living room and put on the audiobooks, if I'm cleaning my apartment, making dinner or doing other stuff where I'm not staring at a screen.
Just now, I realized that I only had around 20 series left to listen to before the well had run dry. Given how quickly you go through the audiobooks, I realized that I would have to take a closer look at what new stuff had come out. When I realized that the books had stopped, I looked into it, and ended up here.
It feels terrible how something as meaningless as commercial interest threatens the continuation of the Forgotten Realms setting. Forgotten Realms, the world that many people have built and brought to life, feels like the main vein of the fantasy genre. Granted, there are other fantasy world, but fantasy mainly has its offset in Dungeons & Dragons, and Forgotten Realms has served to enrich this genre of fantasy, giving it not only purpose, but an actual body and history. The shared effort to keep a continual world, where everything was interconnected, gives us a shared way of exploring the different themes that Dungeons & Dragons offers. Even with great upheaval and seemingly arbitrary changes to this universe, like The Sundering, my interesting didn't wane. I want to see the drow female gain power in world above, I want see orc hordes driven away, see the Zhentarim reduced, I want to see nations expanding or fighting rebellion. When history is recorded and put into a great context, it always feels like it has meaning.
So, that's what I fear we're losing. A universe so vast, with a base in lore and shared histories so rich that almost any aspect can be explored to great length. I realize that some of the books I've read have been written out of the Forgotten Realm history, which feels terrible, but I also appreciate the fact that WotC have worked to maintain the integrity of this universe, even when it has come at a great cost to creative freedom. While others might try to fill the hole left by their current refusal to feed the universe they've birthed, I don't we're likely to experience the same cohesion in the story that we try to share. We've built something, and so many have been willing to contribute, but in the end, the entire basis for the Forgotten Realms universe and for people maintaining the wiki, discussing the lore and discovering new aspects, is that the universe was alive. If the stories stop, I think many of us will consider it dead. I will no doubt continue the listen to the remaining audiobooks within Forgotten Realms, but it certainly won't be with the same luster.
I agree with all of this. I can feel your passion and love for the Realms. It was a lot more than just a fantasy setting for many of us who grew up reading and playing and living it. It definitely felt real, and alive, like the novels were historical texts depicting actual events transpiring in a far away time and place, with characters whose destinies and fates you felt intimately connected with.
And yes, the Realms now feels dead to me. To preserve my composure I've recorded it in my headcanon that Szass Tam succeeded in creating his dread rings and annihilated Toril towards the end of 4e. Everything written since then has been the dreams of a mad lich. |
| Asjo |
Posted - 12 Oct 2020 : 20:22:43
When I was younger, not as many fantasy set in the Dungeons & Dragons universe had come out. I read what I could find in the library. I read the Dragon Lance series and no more than a few books with the Forgotten Realms setting. I read comic books based on the Drizzt universe, and I remember it intrigued me, particular since I'm very fascinated with strong and dominant women.
Many years later, I did borrow a few more books to read at the library. However, it was only once I started to get into audiobooks a few years ago that I really got into the Forgotten Realms universe. First, I listened through everything from R.A. Salvatore, only remembering later that I actually knew some of the stories already, having read a book or two. And now I've been going through everything I can find related to Forgotten Realms. I listen to some audiobooks on my laptop as I go to sleep, and others on my MP3 player as I take the bus and other transport. Sometimes I bring my laptop into my living room and put on the audiobooks, if I'm cleaning my apartment, making dinner or doing other stuff where I'm not staring at a screen.
Just now, I realized that I only had around 20 series left to listen to before the well had run dry. Given how quickly you go through the audiobooks, I realized that I would have to take a closer look at what new stuff had come out. When I realized that the books had stopped, I looked into it, and ended up here.
It feels terrible how something as meaningless as commercial interest threatens the continuation of the Forgotten Realms setting. Forgotten Realms, the world that many people have built and brought to life, feels like the main vein of the fantasy genre. Granted, there are other fantasy world, but fantasy mainly has its offset in Dungeons & Dragons, and Forgotten Realms has served to enrich this genre of fantasy, giving it not only purpose, but an actual body and history. The shared effort to keep a continual world, where everything was interconnected, gives us a shared way of exploring the different themes that Dungeons & Dragons offers. Even with great upheaval and seemingly arbitrary changes to this universe, like The Sundering, my interesting didn't wane. I want to see the drow female gain power in world above, I want see orc hordes driven away, see the Zhentarim reduced, I want to see nations expanding or fighting rebellion. When history is recorded and put into a great context, it always feels like it has meaning.
So, that's what I fear we're losing. A universe so vast, with a base in lore and shared histories so rich that almost any aspect can be explored to great length. I realize that some of the books I've read have been written out of the Forgotten Realm history, which feels terrible, but I also appreciate the fact that WotC have worked to maintain the integrity of this universe, even when it has come at a great cost to creative freedom. While others might try to fill the hole left by their current refusal to feed the universe they've birthed, I don't we're likely to experience the same cohesion in the story that we try to share. We've built something, and so many have been willing to contribute, but in the end, the entire basis for the Forgotten Realms universe and for people maintaining the wiki, discussing the lore and discovering new aspects, is that the universe was alive. If the stories stop, I think many of us will consider it dead. I will no doubt continue the listen to the remaining audiobooks within Forgotten Realms, but it certainly won't be with the same luster. |
| KraziJoe |
Posted - 02 Oct 2020 : 15:27:30
I think Hasbro is missing the boat on this one. I started reading the Realms back in the 80's when I was a teen. Here I am pushing 50 with a ton more money than I had back then and would love to buy more, and yet, I cannot. I am sure there are a bunch more old farts that want to buy the books. Are there Millions? No, but if you market it correctly you can sell to us old farts, who would probably buy it regardless of the marketing, and you can bring in the new folks. And don't forget us old farts are becoming grand parents now and we love to pass on our likes to them just to annoy their parents. Missed opportunity and short sightedness on Hasbro's part. |
| astolfo |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 16:04:07
Wow, been out of the loop for awhile. This is so sad. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2020 : 18:53:48
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
The current Dragon+ Digital Magazine has a question where you can tell WotC that you want more novels again. I would encourage you to do so and spread the, world.
Is a subscription required? Do you have a link? |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 01 Aug 2020 : 19:16:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would have read Dragon+ -- if it had been pdfs or something I could copy to Word. I tried copying something out of one of the first "issues" to Word, and the formatting was so wonky I gave up.
Before you paste into Word, paste it into Notepad and then copy and paste from there. That will remove the formatting.
It removes stuff like italics and such -- but that's not the problem (besides, Word also has a function to remove formatting).
The problem is that text gets moved around and such -- you'll have two columns of text, and instead of going from top to bottom in one column and then starting at the top of the next, it treats both of them as one column and thus mixes up all the text.
That is just as bad an a non-OCR'd document (well, almost, at least you can still search it). I haven't looked in a while. Maybe someone has something out there to handle that. I looked a few years back and couldn't find one so I wrote a quick and dirty console app that OCRs text in a screenshot. I would think that someone would have written something full-featured by now. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Aug 2020 : 17:53:22
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just wondering, since someone mentioned dragon+ …. how many folks actually read this here? Ever since they went to a virtual format, I've just lost track of reading it. If it were still paper, I'd still buy it, if for no other reason than to just have an idea of what the latest trends are or what new products are coming out. I totally get why having stockpiles of old magazines suck mind you (especially when you move).
I would have read Dragon+ -- if it had been pdfs or something I could copy to Word. I tried copying something out of one of the first "issues" to Word, and the formatting was so wonky I gave up.
Before you paste into Word, paste it into Notepad and then copy and paste from there. That will remove the formatting.
It removes stuff like italics and such -- but that's not the problem (besides, Word also has a function to remove formatting).
The problem is that text gets moved around and such -- you'll have two columns of text, and instead of going from top to bottom in one column and then starting at the top of the next, it treats both of them as one column and thus mixes up all the text. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 01 Aug 2020 : 17:24:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just wondering, since someone mentioned dragon+ …. how many folks actually read this here? Ever since they went to a virtual format, I've just lost track of reading it. If it were still paper, I'd still buy it, if for no other reason than to just have an idea of what the latest trends are or what new products are coming out. I totally get why having stockpiles of old magazines suck mind you (especially when you move).
I would have read Dragon+ -- if it had been pdfs or something I could copy to Word. I tried copying something out of one of the first "issues" to Word, and the formatting was so wonky I gave up.
Before you paste into Word, paste it into Notepad and then copy and paste from there. That will remove the formatting. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Aug 2020 : 04:20:16
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just wondering, since someone mentioned dragon+ …. how many folks actually read this here? Ever since they went to a virtual format, I've just lost track of reading it. If it were still paper, I'd still buy it, if for no other reason than to just have an idea of what the latest trends are or what new products are coming out. I totally get why having stockpiles of old magazines suck mind you (especially when you move).
I would have read Dragon+ -- if it had been pdfs or something I could copy to Word. I tried copying something out of one of the first "issues" to Word, and the formatting was so wonky I gave up. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 31 Jul 2020 : 22:45:03
just wondering, since someone mentioned dragon+ …. how many folks actually read this here? Ever since they went to a virtual format, I've just lost track of reading it. If it were still paper, I'd still buy it, if for no other reason than to just have an idea of what the latest trends are or what new products are coming out. I totally get why having stockpiles of old magazines suck mind you (especially when you move). |
| Captain Grafalcon |
Posted - 31 Jul 2020 : 22:19:47
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
The current Dragon+ Digital Magazine has a question where you can tell WotC that you want more novels again. I would encourage you to do so and spread the, world.
This idea is interesting ... at least for now I am comforted by the large volume of books already published. It is reassuring to be able to reread several series.I recently had the pleasure of "rediscovering" Elaine Cunningham, Elfsong is a Realms masterpiece. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 31 Jul 2020 : 14:16:05
The current Dragon+ Digital Magazine has a question where you can tell WotC that you want more novels again. I would encourage you to do so and spread the, world. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 31 Jul 2020 : 14:13:23
The current Dragon+ Digital Magazine has a question where you can tell WotC that you want more novels again. I would encourage you to do so and spread the, world. |
| ZeshinX |
Posted - 03 Jul 2020 : 02:40:15
I do miss the novels quite a bit. I could have done without that many RSE's, but I never minded those that had high stakes and large implications for the setting but did not inherently threaten massive, destructive impacts. The Last Mythal trilogy struck me as something like that. Now it's been a long while since I've read it, but I found it had high stakes, but it struck me that its ultimate purpose was to introduce a new antagonistic power group to the Realms (the Dlardrageths and others allied to them). I could be forgetting quite a lot about it and whether or not it was an RSE-level event...but novels that offer stakes like that without an impending 'End of All Things' I tend to enjoy.
The smaller scale novels were also quite excellent, though I admit I read fewer of them (or at least it feels that way). |
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