| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| egardrol |
Posted - 28 Apr 2004 : 23:02:05
Why is it in all the cover page pictures Drizzt's scimitars are exactly the same. I want to see what Twinkle and Icingdeath look like!
Please state your opinion!
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 06:24:14
This is Paint we're talking about, you know.  I can show you all how my maps can look, given the time to work on it. But I wouldn't lable them "artistic."  |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 05:48:42
Aww *pouts* I wanna see little treants marching across the map 
Do what you can my friend I would love to see your work I was just giving you an idea of an area I would like to see artistically detailed more  |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 05:43:02
What do I look like, a Master of Realmslore? Oh, wait, that's what it says on my desk. I told Alaundo I didn't feel like one.
Anyway, I'm not making any of this up. I can only put in what I already have information for. The map that came with the Silver Marches book has the Grandfather Tree marked, as well as a section called "Turlang's Wood." I can mark those as well, but I can't give you any little arrows to show treant advances. |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 05:36:51
That would be fine with me  Hmm how about a portion showing the Grandfather Tree? Either that or the northern border where Turlang and his treants are expanding the forest?
*added later* The northern half of the High Forest is somewhat detailed in the fold-out map from Silver Marches. If you want to use that as somewhat of a guide |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 05:22:43
A bit plain, wouldn't you say? I don't have any TSR or WotC maps that show much detail inside the Forest. Though I could try for part of it and some surrounding land. |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 04:34:54
I'm not exactly sure what kind of maps you do like how specific and detailed. Lets see how about doing one of the High Forest? Or at least a part of the High Forest. I think that would be very cool  |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 May 2004 : 03:59:01
What, no one wants to make a suggestion? I'm hurt.  My art's not that bad . . . .
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 01 May 2004 : 02:26:10
I talked with the friend I mentioned, Sage, and it is Axagon that he's using. It looks pretty good, I think. You'll have to give a critique after it's released, of course. (Which that person, Nat, thinks is within three weeks. His next-eldest brother and my best friend, Jon, thinks that's being overly oppimistic. Though that's the wrong word, since Nat's a pessimist by nature. )
However, I'd like to show you sometime the way I did the map. Since this has turned into an art-related thread instead of just Drizzt art, I feel safe in asking if anyone has any requests. I'd like something small (no large regions) and no city layouts. Just a reasonable-sized FR map, that's all. Meaning it has to fit on a standard-sized screen, so you can see it all at once. If I do anything more than that, it'll take another two and a half months. |
| Fireheart |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 13:48:34
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Most of Fireheart's comments are consistent with my experience. It's certainly true that authors have very little input into cover art. It's also true that artists seldom have a completed manuscript in hand before they begin work. Some of them have far less information than they'd like. On the other hand, some of them simply aren't interested in depicting the characters as they are described.
Thank you Ms. Cunningham!
I begin to see that there are two problems...one - there is not always clear communication between editor/publisher/artist/author and two - there are artists who would rather paint what they want rather than what is described.
Based on Ms. Cunningham's descriptions of Mr. Lockwood, I'm glad WOTC has gone to using him more...I enjoy his work and now that I know he communicates with the authors, I like him even more! Perhaps his influence will spread and we'll see more accurate depictions based on the authors works.
~Fireheart |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 13:07:00
I like it. A very apt interpretation indeed.
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| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 12:56:04
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
But . . . green?  Did the guy who did Tangled Webs think drow were pointy-eared Orions from Star Trek?
Ah, yes, the infamous "booga-booga monster with boobs" cover.
In addition to giving Liriel olive-green skin, the artist depicted the illithid with a decidedly female form. My favorite description of this cover said it looked like "a freeze frame from a bad dance video." One wag back on the AOL board even did a filk to an old BeeGees tune, something to the effect of,
"Brain is fire, she needs an underwire,
"But she's flayin' alive, flayin' alive..." |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:57:37
But . . . green? Did the guy who did Tangled Webs think drow were pointy-eared Orions from Star Trek? |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:50:25
Most of Fireheart's comments are consistent with my experience. It's certainly true that authors have very little input into cover art. It's also true that artists seldom have a completed manuscript in hand before they begin work. Some of them have far less information than they'd like. On the other hand, some of them simply aren't interested in depicting the characters as they are described.
On the far side of the spectrum is a very fine artist who did the covers for Evermeet and Cormyr. I met him at GenCon, and he told me he deliberately avoids reading anything about the book and characters, as he does not want anything to interfer with his own personal vision. That attitude is certainly correct for most artistic works, but it seems to me that an illustrator ought to, well, "illustrate."
TSR/WotC usually asks for "art notes," with a description of the characters and suggestions for a scene. The artist may or may not take these into account; in fact, several years ago one of the TSR editors told me that among their artists were those who refused to read even the one-page art notes. I'm inclined to believe this. For the original cover of Daughter of the Drow, an editor called me and asked for an "iconic image" that would tie the cover painting to the book. The artist knew he needed a human male and a drow female, so he painted himself and his significant other as Fyodor and Liriel, then added her spider-in-amber necklace so there would be some reference to the story. This was NOT because he did not have a detailed description--I was asked to write one and I did, including as always my contact info in case the artist wished to discuss anything. Either the artist was not given these notes, or he elected not to read them. In marked contrast to this approach is Todd Lockwood's: he was the first artist to contact me and discuss in detail the characters and their development. Some of the WotC artists might not contact authors with question, but they obviously read the art notes. Brom's depiction of Bronwyn was very close to my description.
Regarding drow skin tones. Color is a property of light, and the ebony skin of drow will show different highlights depending upon the light source. Assuming their skin does NOT change color when they're on the surface, it will still look very different viewed by moonlight as opposed to, say, the glow of Underdark lichens.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:49:25
Both. I just sent them. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:33:42
What did you send me?. The url, or the summary?.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:14:41
Nope, sorry, I am going to be shy. But I'll send it to your through your Lady's account. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:07:02
Well, don't be shy then... What's the url?.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 11:04:51
Oh, my website is "up" (meaning that anyone who knows the URL can get there) but I'd hardly call it running. Besides, it's just a lame Geocities account. Hardly something I can store large files on. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:56:48
A short summary will be fine, thank you. Just remember to send it to the Lady K's ethereal mail box .
Axagon, and it's derivative programs are good. I've used them before to create a few images in my FR campaigns. I once even used it to create visual representations which simulate a spell from a third-party sourcebook that I picked up. Inside was a spell (which assumes a world where magic and psionics are intertwined) that projects telepathic messages visually. This program helped me create these images, as well as pictures that were also a part of the message.
It's great component for use in your campaigns . If you ever get your website up and running, I'd like to see what you may one day come up with.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:50:29
I can give you a short summery (via ethereal mail, of course) of the idea behind it, if you'd like.
As for images, I'm not much more experienced than working Paint. A friend of mine is working on the special effects side of our Star Wars brickfilm, and so he's more knowledgable about these things. I'm not sure exactly what programs he uses, but I do know "Axagon" (or something like that) is one of them. I don't know if that's what he's using for lightsabers, though.
So, is this something that someone who's only cut his teeth on Paint could do? If it is, I might use it for some Realms ideas down the road. I'd like to do a few maps sometime. (Plus, my mention of that ought to keep Alaundo at bay for a bit longer.  ) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:44:26
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
...and another map of a story of my own (this time a scifi story that showed the linking of "hyperspace" portals in the local galaxy, where distance is described by the number of portals, not normal space).
I forgot to ask before but, it sounds like there's some interesting theory behind that method of transportation. Care to expand upon it for those of us with an interest in such things?. Maybe in private conversation perhaps?.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:36:48
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
 Yes, it is...*guides Bookwyrm here*.
Complicated . . . .
It's not really, you just have to understand the principles of design behind the program.
I've talked to the guys involved in that project though, back when they were still finishing for ideas on a programming community that I frequent. It's a good product, but I'd wait for the update that's coming. It's much easier to interface with your existing system, especially if you use Windows.
The best thing about the update though, is that it won't crash unexpectedly...
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| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:33:18
Hmmm...that's interesting. In effect, it's very similar to the astral drive principle in the Dragonstar setting.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:30:32
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Yes, it is...*guides Bookwyrm here*.
Complicated . . . . |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:18:19
Well, it was the only program I could use. But yes, it was very good. Spent about two and a half months on it. I was rather, ah, annoyed at giving it up. I've thought several times of going back and doing it again, but I just haven't done it.
As for other creations, I've made several things. That was my best, but I also have two portraits of two professors (at the time, I was using a borrowed laptop with a touch-screen, so I could "draw" them as they lectured) and another map of a story of my own (this time a scifi story that showed the linking of "hyperspace" portals in the local galaxy, where distance is described by the number of portals, not normal space). |
| Arivia |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:10:41
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You actually created something worthwhile using Paint... Now that is impressive.
Yes, it is...*guides Bookwyrm here*. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:05:39
You actually created something worthwhile using Paint... Now that is impressive.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 10:01:37
I've long known some, and suspected the rest, of what Fireheart said. And I firmly believe that you have to have two-way communication when you're using this sort of thing. When I drew two scenes and three maps for one of my brother's stories a while back (the map he was using was pitiful!) I got him to describe things, and changed what he wanted. Of course, I did want to keep several things (for instance, I drew three roads that intersected at a point south of where the characters were, even though they never went there, because he specifically used the plural -- yet he didn't like it for some reason), so we had a few discussions, but mostly it was what he wanted.
I even made a wonderful version using Paint . . . that, unfortunately, I had to give up, because it was larger than what could be put on a floppy, and when the computer got traded in because of bugs, I lost it. (Yes, I know it could have been spit up and reasembled, but I wasn't even as poorly experienced with it then as I am now.) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 09:50:49
Yes, I agree. While the artist's perspective that Fireheart has so kindly provided us with does make things clearer, it certainly doesn't address all the problems.
This is difficult to understand, because I know for a fact that when WotC direct the artists involved for creating new images for any new MTG cards, the artists are regularly a part of setting discussions and brain-storms on the various fluff aspects of the MTG world. At the very least, these artists are provided with a three sentence brief about what the plot developers and writers are looking for. Above all, continuity in imagery must be maintained.
It seems that lack of communication is at the root of the problem here. Now, if WotC used a method similar to what they use when developing new MTG cards, in other words, when developing new D&D game accessories and/or novels, perhaps imagery problems like the Giant Space Hamster just mentioned, could well be avoided .
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 05:46:40
Fine, then let the artists talk to the authors about what the characters look like. Problem solved.
And while your explanation does make sense, it doesn't cover all the discrepancies. For example, Halruaan skyships had been described, in detail, long before the first Shining South was published. And yet we got a ship slung under a blimp... |
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