| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Spectralballoons |
Posted - 27 May 2017 : 13:07:30
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/fiction/comicsgraphic-novels/frost-giants-fury WoTC has stopped publishing novels for the foresseable future, but IDW's Forgotten Realms comics aren't dead yet. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Varl |
Posted - 09 Jul 2017 : 22:53:43
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.
-- George Krashos
They may have with Hasbro's blessing. There's no way WotC could make an MMO without very deep pockets. And despite Blizzard's success with WoW, they're the exception to the MMO rule. A game created to unseat WoW would have to take its player interactivity to many new heights, which isn't saying much considering the thought processes that must have went into some of its systems.
As a longtime player of WoW myself, I can tell you that if you play long enough, you'll find many of its features are outright stupid and make you wonder how those features could ever have made it past testing or QA other than by sticking to the mantra of "it's our game and we'll do what we want." Sound familiar? I can't tell you how many times I've been playing only to think "why did they code it this way? That's stupid!" Bugs aren't the only things playtesters and paying players notice with their entertainment.
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| Caolin |
Posted - 09 Jul 2017 : 00:15:31
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I'd love to see a Realms MMORPG provided it could be farmed out to CD Projekt Red, Blizzard, or BioWare. Given what they did with Mass Effect Andromeda, not sure I'd go in for the last mention though. Sad really, I still love the original ME series. Sigh.
I think someone pointed out already that there is a Realms MMORPG. It's called Neverwinter and it's been around for a quite a few years. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 07 Jul 2017 : 03:48:56
A pipe dream for sure. Still, I'd love to play a Realms game that has the polish of say Witcher 3. /drool |
| Irennan |
Posted - 07 Jul 2017 : 03:18:41
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I'd love to see a Realms MMORPG provided it could be farmed out to CD Projekt Red, Blizzard, or BioWare. Given what they did with Mass Effect Andromeda, not sure I'd go in for the last mention though. Sad really, I still love the original ME series. Sigh.
The thing is, from what I've heard WotC wants to ave strict control over what goes in the game, and such companies probably aren't going to enjoy restrictions in storytelling and game design. Furthermore, they all have their own IPs--which are arguably alreardy much more well known and popular than D&D/FR--so I really don't see them dealing with WotC. Too bad, sure, but understandable. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 07 Jul 2017 : 03:10:20
I'd love to see a Realms MMORPG provided it could be farmed out to CD Projekt Red, Blizzard, or BioWare. Given what they did with Mass Effect Andromeda, not sure I'd go in for the last mention though. Sad really, I still love the original ME series. Sigh. |
| Spectralballoons |
Posted - 06 Jul 2017 : 08:28:58
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.
-- George Krashos
That's a lousy idea. Tabletop games are still going strong, and are in fact now more mainstream than ever before, and what works in a tabletop game might not necessarilly work in another form of entertainment. Besides, doesn't Neverwinter Nights exist? |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 20:53:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[As I understand it, that project was mostly being carried by just one person, who died before completing it... I seem to recall there being an issue with the code having been lifted from somewhere else.
That was the first one, the 3D version they promised during launch of 4e- They had a working 2D version at the end of 4e, looked like maptools or fantasy grounds.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 20:02:15
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
The sad thing is that the 4e virtual table (the 2D version WotC developed after the 3D project was cancelled) was really good. The DDI integration was smooth and I played quite a few LFR adventures on it during the beta.
Unfortunately they never broadcasted the fact that all DDI users actually had beta access and instead of moving the stable version they finally had from beta to release, they out of the blue the cancelled it.
As I understand it, that project was mostly being carried by just one person, who died before completing it... I seem to recall there being an issue with the code having been lifted from somewhere else.
I think that if the VTT had been rules-neutral, with rulesets as cheap downloads, it could have been a huge thing for gaming in general, and not just for D&D. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 18:53:31
The sad thing is that the 4e virtual table (the 2D version WotC developed after the 3D project was cancelled) was really good. The DDI integration was smooth and I played quite a few LFR adventures on it during the beta.
Unfortunately they never broadcasted the fact that all DDI users actually had beta access and instead of moving the stable version they finally had from beta to release, they out of the blue the cancelled it.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
a brilliant MMORPG.
Well, the 'brilliant' is the tricky part. Huge brands tried, hundred of millions have been sunk into various projects, and the most 'successful' scrape by as free to play, while the majority are long since cancelled.
And WoW is still the big elephant in the room, easily affording losing more player than most would-be WoW-killers had during their peaks. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 10:07:08
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.
-- George Krashos
I think they could have done very, very well if they'd've developed and pushed the virtual gaming table, myself. The biggest advantages MMOs have is that you can play any time, for as long or as little time as you want, using a tool you've already got that does a lot of other stuff. If WotC had developed a good virtual gaming table, they could have given D&D those same advantages, and that would have been huge.
I know there are VTTs out there, but none are as big as they would be if WotC had slapped their name on it and aggressively pushed it as an alternative to trying to find and coordinate with local people. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 07:38:29
I sometimes think that D&D would now be dominating all facets of "gaming" as well as offshooting into books, movies etc, if only it had devoted a huge amount of resources to building a brilliant MMORPG.
-- George Krashos |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 05 Jul 2017 : 02:03:45
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Limiting your product line, halting sales of novels, creating your own biggest competitor, and nuking your flagship setting (over and over again) all seem counterintuitive too, lol. Frequently informing your most avid customers that you'll decide what they want and that they'd better like it or else ... well, that goes beyond counterintuitive into raw stupidity, nobody creates/retains loyal friends by being arrogant and intolerant and selfish, lol ... but see where WotC has been and where they are now and you might better understand the path they travelled.
It had a very niche fanbase to begin with, but a powerful one. They wanted to go mainstream with it and failed and in doing so had nuked the old school fanbase, leaving them with only us, the hangers on.
The biggest problem tabletop game worlds face in today's world is it has largely been replaced by online MMORPG's and WOTC never really put their heart and soul into making a good one of that when they had the chance. It was disheartening 10 years back to see the numbers from chapters canada when World of Warcraft books started outselling forgotten realms. But they properly attracted the new school fanbase, and got a big enough fanbase that the more hardcore live and breathe RPGers started buying those books instead |
| Madpig |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 06:24:49
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
@Lamora
Sorry, I don't have these links anymore. And, as I said above, I wouldn't post them anyways because I'm not interested in doing WotC's dirty work for them. But these novels can always be found after some persistent googling for "unpublished|unofficial forgotten realms story|novel" and the like.
@Wooly
I saw much the same thing on the forum. A new topic or poll which quickly generated a huge rush of "yes, please, we want that!" responses. Then a comment from WotC saying "no, we've decided not to do that, there's no market". Ignored and rolled over by subsequent waves of blissfully unaware "we want that!" without result.
As today is 10th aniversary of Iphone, I have one quote from Jobbs: Do not ask what people want, bring something so spectacular that people dont even know they want it. BUT, that often as not missfires really badly, as in case of Wotc/Hasbro. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 06:22:40
Limiting your product line, halting sales of novels, creating your own biggest competitor, and nuking your flagship setting (over and over again) all seem counterintuitive too, lol. Frequently informing your most avid customers that you'll decide what they want and that they'd better like it or else ... well, that goes beyond counterintuitive into raw stupidity, nobody creates/retains loyal friends by being arrogant and intolerant and selfish, lol ... but see where WotC has been and where they are now and you might better understand the path they travelled. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 16:09:19
That seems counterintuitive to me lol. A bunch of people saying they want it, then WotC claiming there is no market? Clearly, there is. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 08:42:32
@Lamora
Sorry, I don't have these links anymore. And, as I said above, I wouldn't post them anyways because I'm not interested in doing WotC's dirty work for them. But these novels can always be found after some persistent googling for "unpublished|unofficial forgotten realms story|novel" and the like.
@Wooly
I saw much the same thing on the forum. A new topic or poll which quickly generated a huge rush of "yes, please, we want that!" responses. Then a comment from WotC saying "no, we've decided not to do that, there's no market". Ignored and rolled over by subsequent waves of blissfully unaware "we want that!" without result. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 00:41:30
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
The only way that has even a chance of changing is if fans mobilize, start writing letters, circulating petitions, launching social media campaigns, being vocal at conventions, and so forth.
Or we could say "Nah, it won't make any difference" and do nothing at all. That's an option too.
WotC once had a thriving forum filled with such letters and petitions and campaigns, most fizzled but some had traction and sporadically gained great momentum. A few of these had explicit (if not active) support from recognized FR authors.
There was once, when I was still active on the WotC forums, that I suggested WotC could do a survey to find out what we wanted.
A WotC staffer replied that they weren't interested in that; they had their own ways of deciding what we wanted.
This was long before 4E was even being (secretly) playtested -- but I've never forgotten that "no, we'll tell you want you want" attitude. |
| Lamora |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 23:00:36
@Ayrik: You want to give a link for those good and especially the exceptional fan novels? Most of the Realms fanfiction (lets be honest, its basically a Realms story considering the setting lets you just plop adventurers anywhere) I have seen has been mediocre. But something exceptional would be a nice read. Honestly right now there is one of the best Realms stories I have read being updated daily and I include the actual books, so I would be very happy if you can point me to some new ones. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 08:07:33
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
The only way that has even a chance of changing is if fans mobilize, start writing letters, circulating petitions, launching social media campaigns, being vocal at conventions, and so forth.
Or we could say "Nah, it won't make any difference" and do nothing at all. That's an option too.
WotC once had a thriving forum filled with such letters and petitions and campaigns, most fizzled but some had traction and sporadically gained great momentum. A few of these had explicit (if not active) support from recognized FR authors.
But no novels.
The second approach is far more popular. WotC has demonstrated that it doesn't care, so - increasingly - WotC's fans demonstrate that they don't care.
Still no novels.
I've seen (and even read) a few unofficial FR novels online. An odd and even mix ...
Some people (fans) write utter trash and try to pass it off as published FR canon. One novel reappears over and over again almost seasonally. One author keeps appending his awful novel onto wiki lists of published FR novels, along with links to his site (where you can purchase the full ebook version).
Other people (fans) genuinely attempt to write a real bona-fide genuine Realms novel (or three). Some attempts are poor, most are good, a couple have been exceptional (on par with the better end of published Realms novels).
I used to rat these folks out. But "Nah, Wizbro can do their own dirty work". Perhaps that alone is a sad commentary: the learned apathy of a cynical fan, unwilling to lift a finger for Wizbro's Realms. |
| CylverSaber |
Posted - 28 Jun 2017 : 04:32:58
I think we've got to stop the denial (Ed is guaranteed a novel a year, it's only a temporary hiatus, WotC would never give up such a profitable venture, they're just waiting to license the novels, etc) and admit what's been obvious for some time now; they have no plans to bring back the novels.
The only way that has even a chance of changing is if fans mobilize, start writing letters, circulating petitions, launching social media campaigns, being vocal at conventions, and so forth.
Or we could say "Nah, it won't make any difference" and do nothing at all. That's an option too. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 10 Jun 2017 : 19:54:54
quote:
Originally posted by KraziJoe
Personally, they started losing me at the Spell Plague. I prefer to know why things changed and they alluded to what happened, but they felt they didn't need to do more. It's like it because Toril-2. Same people but new powersets etc. Then BAM the Sundering happened trying to revert all they did back to what it was. Now we have nothing...I don't play much D&D so I get my fix through the novels...Not so much anymore...So I am pretty much at a loss as to what is going on.
Well, there's not much to understand about what's going on, as most events were just engineered to revert some of the 3e and 4e changes. They pressed the rest button. Ao quite literally did that. A lot was undone, some authors gave explanations (or at least confirmations) of what and who was back. Everything concerning the gods is back to pre ToT, with the exception that "new deities" like Cyric are still there. As for NPCs, many surived or were resurrected, others were left in the dust (it seemed rather arbitray to me, tbh), while most of the new ones remained. All the Shades are gone as well (although some low ranking ones do remain). As for the lands, everything is mostly back to how it was before the end of 3e, with the exception that the Dragonborn still hold some land (and some elves have decided to remain in the fallen Myth Drannor with the Tree of Souls). That's it. Perhaps this might help:http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Sundering |
| DiscerningDM |
Posted - 10 Jun 2017 : 19:39:21
It would be a mistake to ignore the D&D team's business model as it evolves, and that it's been a massive success for the game, the hobby, and the Realms. The Realms are best served by a thriving IP holder, producing popular and financially successful realms books.
Initially for 5e, they were at 2 books a year, adventures only, and now we are at 2 adventures a year, plus a lore book. We are seeing increased tempo of game and hobby releases from wotc. The last two FR adventures, specially Storm King's Thunder, contained a lot of delicious lore, and the SCAG went a lot farther than the sword coast.
As wotc tests what the market will bear, I hope the novels come back as well. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 08 Jun 2017 : 22:03:08
I don't play much, either. I primarily read the novels, though I will buy sourcebooks to stay up to date on lore and such. The novels have unfortunately taken a back seat, because they don't bring in as much revenue, and many gamers today want to see gaming products. |
| KraziJoe |
Posted - 08 Jun 2017 : 21:59:39
Personally, they started losing me at the Spell Plague. I prefer to know why things changed and they alluded to what happened, but they felt they didn't need to do more. It's like it because Toril-2. Same people but new powersets etc. Then BAM the Sundering happened trying to revert all they did back to what it was. Now we have nothing...I don't play much D&D so I get my fix through the novels...Not so much anymore...So I am pretty much at a loss as to what is going on. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 05 Jun 2017 : 19:58:50
While manga (Japanese graphic novels) is an obsession of mine, I have never been that in to "American" comics, if you will. I wasn't a huge fan of the Cutter comics, but I read them because of the tie-in. I may have to break down and get the comics if it's the only "literature" being provided. Hmmm... |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 05 Jun 2017 : 15:15:09
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Spectralballoons
The novels were definetely not selling well, mainly as a result of the incompetence of WoTC's marketing team. Basically, what happened to dragonalance/greyhawk/mystara/ravenloaft/eberron/spelljammer/planescape/etc novels and other fiction.
Do you have any data at all to back that up?
Hard data is hard to come by (no pun intended).
Someone once did some extrapolation based on Amazon ranking and came to the conclusion that the Brimstone novels were selling less than one book a day on Amazon. Certainly not hard data, but evidence in the right direction maybe?
Seems that if you're not Salvatore, your FR books won't sell big numbers.
Personally I hope that WotC at least will release The Devil You Know as a paperback, so that I can complete my physical collection before having to turn the lights off
I could give you numbers for all chapters branches in Canada from about 6-7 years ago. The problem is, that's only Canada. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 05 Jun 2017 : 01:09:52
What about Ed's group? Wasn't there something about how Ed was gathering a group of Realms authors and experts to put together small articles on lore and things? I've been away from playing for about a year, but didn't they have something planned for releasing on their site? Or for sale? |
| Gyor |
Posted - 02 Jun 2017 : 19:41:00
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
It's so depressing. We wee so spoiled in first an second edition drowning in lore with things like the amazing Volo's Guides and now we are in a desert that looks like we'll never get out of...
Yep, it's frustrating and depressing. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 02 Jun 2017 : 18:49:31
It's so depressing. We were so spoiled in first and second edition drowning in lore with things like the amazing Volo's Guides and now we are in a desert that looks like we'll never get out of... |
| Gyor |
Posted - 02 Jun 2017 : 15:14:38
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
If i'm understanding you guys correctly, you're saying that the Spellplague killed the fiction and the setting, and there was no fix possible. That's a depressing perspective, but that doesn't mean you might not be right. I guess it doesn't matter anyway now that WotC has pulled the plug.
I don't agree with them, I like the 5e realms, I just wish they'd put out a 5e FRCG.
See they built all this excitement for the Sundering, and then barely did anything with it, the Sundering series, a few books by Bob, Erin, Ed, after the Sundering series, a some adventure paths, and the SCAG.
I don't even count Volo's Guide to Monsters as a realms book as it has so little realms content, with Volo himself just adding some posted notes, that I feel that titlecis almost fraudulent.
I think they were barely able to support the setting because they barely had any staff, its why they are tossing the new Mystic and Artificer classes on DMGuild so players while do some of the work of developing the classes, they no longer have the staff to do it.
5e had so much potential as did the Sundering, but its been starved for resources by the bosses, even though the few 5e books they have are best sellers, its not that the books don't sell, including novels, its that D&D is just a shell they keep around in the hopes of getting movie deals.
I wish Piazo or TEGG would make an offer buy the novel and table top rights from Hasbro. |
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