| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 03:42:28
Just finished a fast read through earlier today. Still not sure what to think. A jumble of emotions for sure. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 30 May 2017 : 00:34:12
Can anyone just spoil the whole trilogy for me please? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Mar 2017 : 04:21:20
After some discussion with the other mods, a post was removed from this discussion.
Let's leave the real-world politics out of these discussions, please, and show a little more respect to others.  |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 29 Dec 2016 : 19:47:08
7/10, a strong tie-up to a long running series. Here's my thoughts:
Liked the return to the Bloodstone Lands and the Monastery of the Yellow Rose
Liked Kane
Liked the Demon Lord / Faezress mind****ing Drizzt had to deal with, overall
Liked the return of Wulfgar and Regis, overall
Liked Yvonnel Baenre
Dislikes
Some of the execution of the Demon Lord / Faezress mind****ing - someone pointed out some stuff that Salvatore could've pulled from the past to make it more entertaining
The overly long prologue intro of Wulfgar and Regis
Melcanthet - I would've preferred an Errtu that took advantage of Lolth's plans and found a way to ascend himself to Demon Lord rank
|
| Paran |
Posted - 27 Nov 2016 : 13:27:08
I read it and honestly thought it was meh. And I say this as a HUGE Drizzt fan. More than half of it felt like Bob just tried to fill in page space with pointless dialogue/scenes. If the novels aren't cancelled and brought back later on I'd love to see a new author's perspective on Drizzt. I already have 30 books to come back to in case the new one sucks so why not? |
| hairogumasan |
Posted - 22 Nov 2016 : 15:58:01
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
Question for sno4wy; if you hate Bob's writing so much, why have you apparently followed it for 30+ books? :D
Anyway... for those that don't hate Bob's writing, I think this was an enjoyable book, and I hope WOTC reverses their decision to end the novel line so we can get more. The only thing I really didn't buy was Yvonnel's conversion to the side of angels. I liked that the ending left Lolth's motivations ambiguous. And Entreri clearly isn't fully redeemed, given his actions at the end. He's still got his dark side.
I dont think Entreri did anything evil with that assassination. He did kill clearly evil ruler, that terrorized his subjects and by doing it saved countless of innocent people. I think it was goodly act, rather than evil. Neutral at its worst. (And I know that assassination is evil act in D&D rules.)
Not saying it was evil, but it's something that would be outside Drizzt's personal moral boundaries, even though he comes to accept Entreri doing it. So I don't think there's any danger of the characters becoming too alike.
Questionable. ;-P As Hero seems to be the final Drizzt book, there's really no way to tell, however, as Salvatore did indeed hammer the dimension out of many of his characters, should things continue, it isn't outside of the realm of possibility that Entreri will indeed walk the path that Drizzt did. It's already the strong implication that Yvonnel is Drizzt's successor in this regard, and as I'm inclined to believe from the trends set forth not only in Hero but in preceding Drizzt books, Salvatore tends to use many of the same kinds of tropes and themes, there really isn't much that Entreri could do to "find himself" other than to complete the turnaround into becoming a total good guy. Not that this is at all realistic, it's just the standard sort of theme that Salvatore tends to use all too much. ;-P |
| CylverSaber |
Posted - 22 Nov 2016 : 14:20:03
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
Question for sno4wy; if you hate Bob's writing so much, why have you apparently followed it for 30+ books? :D
Anyway... for those that don't hate Bob's writing, I think this was an enjoyable book, and I hope WOTC reverses their decision to end the novel line so we can get more. The only thing I really didn't buy was Yvonnel's conversion to the side of angels. I liked that the ending left Lolth's motivations ambiguous. And Entreri clearly isn't fully redeemed, given his actions at the end. He's still got his dark side.
I dont think Entreri did anything evil with that assassination. He did kill clearly evil ruler, that terrorized his subjects and by doing it saved countless of innocent people. I think it was goodly act, rather than evil. Neutral at its worst. (And I know that assassination is evil act in D&D rules.)
Not saying it was evil, but it's something that would be outside Drizzt's personal moral boundaries, even though he comes to accept Entreri doing it. So I don't think there's any danger of the characters becoming too alike. |
| hairogumasan |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 17:49:45
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
I dont think Entreri did anything evil with that assassination. He did kill clearly evil ruler, that terrorized his subjects and by doing it saved countless of innocent people. I think it was goodly act, rather than evil. Neutral at its worst. (And I know that assassination is evil act in D&D rules.)
Agreed. It was no small feat for Entreri to be able to get past all of that security, despite how Bob wrote that it wasn't much different from assassinating a Pasha. A king is a very different matter from a Pasha, commanding many more resources, thus posing many more risks. Furthermore, Entreri had no impetus to do it other than to do a good deed, so while he did kill someone, the act of doing so I don't think would be construed as evil. The amount of personal risk he incurred without personal payout to accomplish a task solely for the good of others is pretty darn heroic. ;-P I'd say he's pretty darn redeemed. Furthermore, Drizzt and the Companions kill many evil beings, but when they do that, they certainly aren't doing evil deeds. For Entreri to follow in their footsteps, if that wasn't an act of redemption, I'm not certain what is. ;-P |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 17:25:43
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
Question for sno4wy; if you hate Bob's writing so much, why have you apparently followed it for 30+ books? :D
Anyway... for those that don't hate Bob's writing, I think this was an enjoyable book, and I hope WOTC reverses their decision to end the novel line so we can get more. The only thing I really didn't buy was Yvonnel's conversion to the side of angels. I liked that the ending left Lolth's motivations ambiguous. And Entreri clearly isn't fully redeemed, given his actions at the end. He's still got his dark side.
Not sure if you're actually interested in understanding my point of view, or if you're just baiting/trolling. You assume incorrectly that just because I criticize Bob's writing, that I would entertain so strong an emotion as to "hate" it. By that logic, everyone who ever criticizes anything automatically irrationally hates that thing, and anyone who ever engages in any sort of critique should be disregarded because clearly they hate the subject matter that they're not showering with praises and are only following it because of... I'm not even sure where this illogical chain of reasoning goes, other than as an attempt to invalidate anyone who dares express an opinion contrary to your own.
As for why I've read all of Bob's FR books, the answer is because I try to read every Forgotten Realms novel and, surprise!, I don't actually hate his writing. Not that I think you'd actually care as you've already dismissed my points, but I really like some of his earlier books.
In any case, the earlier antagonism in this thread has settled down, I'm sure that everyone would appreciate it if you or anyone else would refrain from trying to make an issue out of someone daring to express a dissenting opinion. |
| Madpig |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 07:03:41
quote:
Originally posted by CylverSaber
Question for sno4wy; if you hate Bob's writing so much, why have you apparently followed it for 30+ books? :D
Anyway... for those that don't hate Bob's writing, I think this was an enjoyable book, and I hope WOTC reverses their decision to end the novel line so we can get more. The only thing I really didn't buy was Yvonnel's conversion to the side of angels. I liked that the ending left Lolth's motivations ambiguous. And Entreri clearly isn't fully redeemed, given his actions at the end. He's still got his dark side.
I dont think Entreri did anything evil with that assassination. He did kill clearly evil ruler, that terrorized his subjects and by doing it saved countless of innocent people. I think it was goodly act, rather than evil. Neutral at its worst. (And I know that assassination is evil act in D&D rules.) |
| CylverSaber |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 20:33:37
Question for sno4wy; if you hate Bob's writing so much, why have you apparently followed it for 30+ books? :D
Anyway... for those that don't hate Bob's writing, I think this was an enjoyable book, and I hope WOTC reverses their decision to end the novel line so we can get more. The only thing I really didn't buy was Yvonnel's conversion to the side of angels. I liked that the ending left Lolth's motivations ambiguous. And Entreri clearly isn't fully redeemed, given his actions at the end. He's still got his dark side. |
| DandelionClock |
Posted - 08 Nov 2016 : 21:17:45
Or give him his history. He's got so much baggage. Nope. You know, recovered from a really shitty time, grew out of the stubborn chauvinist he used to be because it cost him what he most wanted, had kids who aren't even alive anymore by all accounts, has to repeat his history in this one in a creepy way... Another kid possibly left behind, another encounter with a succubus (like, when he was Errtu's prisoner?)... he could easily have had more than one and a half layers. |
| jordanz |
Posted - 08 Nov 2016 : 21:12:18
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I like Regis, but have never been a Wulfgar fan, and I have liked him even less in the last few books.
Im not sure why RA didnt make him more interesting. Outside of him wanting to tap every skirt he sees, he's basically the same guy. Why not buff up his barbarian abilities? Give him some magical war cries, cool fighting tactics etc. Boost up Aegis fang as well. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 16:08:15
I loved all of Eddings' work except for the Dreamers series. That one seemed haphazard, and almost everything happened via dialogue, so I get what you mean.
I have gotten the impression that RAS was tired of writing about Drizzt for the last several novels. That said, I was fairly happy with the ending. |
| Madpig |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 10:19:47
I have this feeling that RAS just went to F**K IT, when he learnt this novel will be THE last one. Because so much insane stuff happened during the book, that completely ignored RAS's own work, let alone other FR stuff. Only thing that was missing was Kane saying something Chuck Norris related stuff. This book made me think Rage of Dragons books. They were in that same monastery right? It would have been quite anticlimatic to Kane just wiping the dragons away...
I enjoyed quite bit this book, quite felt like David Eddings work. He wrote stuff like this to end of line books. |
| DandelionClock |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 23:19:11
The nice thing about NOT being a native speaker - you can sort of filter that out. The same way you switch to "just hearing the music and not the lyrics" if the song's good, but the lyrics are poor. :) I also mellowed out towards the naming thing (I mean... really...) after doing a bit of genealogy and finding that people in my family trees either recycled the same six names per gender all over and over again, or named their kids the most unbelievable stuff, like "Jodocus" or "Featherquill". :D
But yeah.
|
| Fellfire |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 22:50:10
Wigglefingers? Toofless? Is this a joke? How old does he think his target readers are? Drivel. |
| DandelionClock |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 15:11:55
"Oh yeah, that kid you raised and then separated from and dropped of at her bio mom." No wonder they're so nonchalant about his fears regrding possible further offspring he's never gonna see. Weird. And a bit sad. It's one more of these moments where the CotH come across as estranged but in denial about it.
PS: I am a sucker for warm, genuine friendships, especially in otherwise action laden high fantasy stuff. You can sell me anything if the bonds betweeŽn chars come across as genuine. |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 15:03:38
I also felt that the treatment of Colson was really unrealistic. I mean, Regis, who's arguably the closest to Wulfgar among all of the CotH, even forgot who Colson was. I mean, how do you forget something as major as that, especially when it was a really big deal to someone who's possibly the best of your best friends? O_o |
| DandelionClock |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 14:46:15
I always liked that he reacted fairly human-like to what he'd been put through and snapped out of it. So I liked his parts of "Spine of the world". I could have done much less with Meralda's POV and her insufferable family and her stupid arranged marriage. I also wondered, reading Hero, why Cattie Brie never told him what she'd found out about Colson's life, she would know it mattered to him, and seriously? They may have been busy, but that was just one point where I wondered, you spent at least a few evenings together that were kind of quiet, did you ever talk? Don't life long friends and companions do that? Do you just go offline by now when you don't fight?
You could have done so much with Wulfgar's background story, too, like, show him more tolerantly than the other companions when people aren't at their best, or, show him being able to handle stuff someone with several kids and grandkids would know but people don't expect from someone looking like they're in their 20ties. Stuff like that. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 14:16:48
I like Regis, but have never been a Wulfgar fan, and I have liked him even less in the last few books. |
| Corrupteddragon |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 04:45:17
I found the ending to be a decent ending to the series (for now hopefully), but overall I found the majority of the book disappointing. It reminded me a lot of my least favorite of the series, The Spine of the World.
Wulfgar and Regis are my two least liked characters of the series and the book was about 50% them. I found myself growing bored and slogging through their part of the book. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 14:33:23
@sno4wy I'm far from being the answers-man here, lol
Not sure how to asnwer the question. The monastery is RAS' creation, so I agree with Madpig that his word is good. However what you say makes sense. |
| Madpig |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 06:13:01
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I agree, Irennan.
Since we've got you here answers-man (;P), I was hoping you could help me with something. One thing that bothered me a bit was the title "Mistress of the East Wind" as the title for one of the higher-ranking monks in the Order of the Yellow Rose. Shouldn't the title be "Master of --" regardless of gender, because the "Master" in that context refers to "Mastery"? At least, that's been my understanding of monk orders, and that's the case with real life monk orders. It's different from how the Grandfather of Assassins is the Grandmother of Assassins if the head is a woman instead of a man, or at least, that was my impression?
As monastary of Yellow Rose is mainly Bob's creation, (as are Bloodstone Lands as whole) I'd say he's word is good there.
I have to say I have skipped a LOT of Drizzt's battle skenes since HBT, but he's maches against Kane were good. Just now waiting to Drizzt to get 10lvls of monk to he's next writeup  |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 04:07:12
I agree, Irennan.
Since we've got you here answers-man (;P), I was hoping you could help me with something. One thing that bothered me a bit was the title "Mistress of the East Wind" as the title for one of the higher-ranking monks in the Order of the Yellow Rose. Shouldn't the title be "Master of --" regardless of gender, because the "Master" in that context refers to "Mastery"? At least, that's been my understanding of monk orders, and that's the case with real life monk orders. It's different from how the Grandfather of Assassins is the Grandmother of Assassins if the head is a woman instead of a man, or at least, that was my impression? |
| Irennan |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 03:35:23
She's devious and powerful as well. The drow being devious and powerful could also ring all sorts of alarm bells in regards of possible deceptions. I just think that the trick would be more respectful of a demon lord's power, if the illusion wasn't just a normal illusion. |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 03:22:29
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I feel like, it might've been a clever ruse, but it's a difficult one to accept. Then again, I'm not clear about the exact dynamics between Malcanchet and Graz'zt, nor of passive demon powers (such as perma-true sight). I also don't know the exact level of loathing that demons have for the Abyss, or rather, the level of desire for and relish of them being on the Prime Material Plane. Malcanchet certainly ran back into the Abyss quickly enough, so that makes me wonder: is she *that* terrified of Graz'zt? So much so that she wouldn't try truesight, or at least some other sort of way to "measure" him, think about negotiations, or flee to a different part of Toril but on the Prime? Does what she did make sense?
Malcanthet and Graz'zt are decidedly enemies. I think that it's a nice alternative to defeat such a creature (at least they didn't use magic and other tricks to power up Drizzt and turn him into the uber juggernaut of doom to 1 shot Malcanthet), but it would have felt better if they had used something to empower that illusion. Mostly because a demon lord is a really smart entity, and Malcanthet is supposed to be really good at manipulating and deceiving, so she should be good at recognizing a ruse.
Do you think that maybe since Malcanthet knows of the drow and how devious and powerful they are,topped with the fact that she is mortal enemies with Gra'zt that maybe she did take it at face value? It would be different if it was say a human wizard using the Spriggin for the same purpose. Just curious |
| Irennan |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 02:07:59
I agree that using a half orc as a basis to claim that not all orcs are X isn't correct. But we do have examples of groups of orcs being able to act civilized in the Realms. |
| sno4wy |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 01:58:21
Returning to the discussion of drow not being genetically evil and the mention that tieflings now necessarily being evil even though they carry "evil blood", would it follow then that half-orcs shouldn't be anymore likened to their orcish heritage than tieflings should be to their devilish ones? I ask, because I thought it very odd that Palishchuck was used as an example as to why not all orcs are evil. I feel like's as faulty of a parallel to draw as it is to use any sort of half-race to assess the qualities of their parent race. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 28 Oct 2016 : 01:11:51
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I feel like, it might've been a clever ruse, but it's a difficult one to accept. Then again, I'm not clear about the exact dynamics between Malcanchet and Graz'zt, nor of passive demon powers (such as perma-true sight). I also don't know the exact level of loathing that demons have for the Abyss, or rather, the level of desire for and relish of them being on the Prime Material Plane. Malcanchet certainly ran back into the Abyss quickly enough, so that makes me wonder: is she *that* terrified of Graz'zt? So much so that she wouldn't try truesight, or at least some other sort of way to "measure" him, think about negotiations, or flee to a different part of Toril but on the Prime? Does what she did make sense?
Malcanthet and Graz'zt are decidedly enemies. I think that it's a nice alternative to defeat such a creature (at least they didn't use magic and other tricks to power up Drizzt and turn him into the uber juggernaut of doom to 1 shot Malcanthet), but it would have felt better if they had used something to empower that illusion. Mostly because a demon lord is a really smart entity, and Malcanthet is supposed to be really good at manipulating and deceiving, so she should be good at recognizing a ruse. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 27 Oct 2016 : 22:28:36
Okay, I finished the book. I actually liked it for the most part, though it felt a bit rushed, like he was trying to cram a lot into the last volume. I have some issues, but I give it 4 stars. I feel it is a good ending to a long series.
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