| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 10 Jun 2016 : 23:18:11
Finished the book today. My review is below
I’d give this book 3 ½ stars if I could. The story itself was decent, but it was kind of all over the place, and some of the character development on the newer characters I felt was lacking. Every character also seems to have the same type of dry humor.
But it wasn’t horrible, and there were some good lore bits about what was going on in the Realms, such as Storm, Rune, and Arclath helping to establish favorable relations between elves and Cormyr. Also, there are temples of Eilistraee popping up in Waterdeep, and as a fan of the Dark Maiden, and glad for her return, this made me smile.
I was happy to see a same-sex couple in this book (Jalester and Dunblade), even though their amorous relationship seemed to have developed rather abruptly, unless they had been lovers beforehand. And it ended tragically. The last one, in “Elminster Enraged”, ended sadly too (Longclaws and…I am forgetting his name. It was never expressly stated that they were in love, but it was implied). And Elminster taking over Dunblade’s body right after his death, and then hugging Jalester…okay, I understand El needed a body, but he wraps his arms around Jal and says “I’ll be your friend”. I realize he is trying to comfort Jalester, but…come on. His lover just died. I love El, but that was a bit low.
Like Laeral, this book made me miss Khelben. I liked the tidbit about how she could commune with Dove, Sylune, and even Florin in the Weave, but Khelben went to Arvandor (even though he wasn’t an elf. So at least he’s in a good place). I felt kind of sorry for Vajra, but I prefer Khelben as the Blackstaff. However, the torch—or staff, in this case—has to be passed at some point.
The sky giants arriving was a big part of the first part of the book, but it isn’t mentioned or dwelt with through the rest of the book, so I am wondering what is going to happen with that. Perhaps it has to do with the next big Realms event being rumored to involve giants, so it was mostly used as a setup for that.
There was definite intrigue, with treachery upon treachery taking place, and it was fun to read a book set in Waterdeep again. There is always something going on—or below that city. The end left an opening or a sequel, if that happens. It was nice to read a new FR novel, few as they are these days, so I finished it quickly. I could have savored it, but I wanted updates, and I was hungry, so to speak.
This is marketed as an Elminster novel, and El is in it, but the main character is arguably Laeral. El is more of a background character through most of the book. It is a stand-alone, but people who read it should have some Realms knowledge, and what has recently happened in the Realms. I wonder why it is harder for priests to resurrect, though they can still heal. The gods are quieter in fifth edition, but they seem “distant” to even their clerics and priests—even Mystra to her Chosen. As a fan of the gods, this has me a bit concerned. However, Mystra still makes herself known, and does continue to speak to her Chosen, so maybe I’m just paranoid.
Recommended to Realms fans.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Irennan |
Posted - 16 Dec 2017 : 02:56:23
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead.
When death is meaningless - does life have meaning? :(
Yes, it can very well have. WotC killed off so many characters without any (in-world) reason, or for reasons that defeat their purpose. In such cases, yes, life does have a meaning (and, generally speaking, death isn't what gives life a meaning. A meaningful life could end with a meaningless death, and vice-versa).
Death became meaningless in the Realms when WotC decided to blast the setting apart towards the end of 3e and then fastforward 100 years. Undoing that isn't going to make things worse. |
| Baptor |
Posted - 16 Dec 2017 : 02:52:15
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead.
When death is meaningless - does life have meaning? :(
They said a reboot wasn't possible. Kind of silly when comic book worlds get rebooted all the time - and this seems to have become essentially a comic book setting if "death is meaningless." |
| Irennan |
Posted - 15 Dec 2017 : 23:32:03
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead.
Syluné is back, in a form. She's still a ghost, but she's also still there. Poor Simbul, and poor Qilué. I mean, the former is essentially part of Mystra now, but it'd be cool to see her as a sort of avatar of Mystra with her own identity; it'd also be cool if Eilistraee and Mystra gave Qilué a second chance after their return. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 15 Dec 2017 : 23:22:26
Death is now meaningless in the Realms and has been since the time skip. For Elminster, it's completely meaningless. Poor Sylune for dying before everyone came back from the dead. |
| Madpig |
Posted - 14 Dec 2017 : 07:12:30
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Since this is a spoilers page, I have a question.
Does Elminster die?
Does James Bond die in movies?  |
| Baptor |
Posted - 12 Dec 2017 : 02:36:54
Since this is a spoilers page, I have a question.
Does Elminster die? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 12:48:26
Ed was asked to showcase all of these things by WotC as oblique nods to the gaming products.
-- George Krashos |
| maddwaffles |
Posted - 07 Oct 2017 : 08:57:13
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
I think that the scenes with the giants are tie-ins with "Storm King's Thunder".
The gods being silent to their priests seems to be an explanation for the loss of power of all divine spellcasters in 5e.
There is one thing that puzzles me: Why is Mordenkainen out of his mind and in the casre of Elminster? He is from Oerth and the magic of Oerth was never in the care of Mystra.
As mentioned before, Curse of Strahd, but why he was inserted, it could have been nuance. |
| KraziJoe |
Posted - 07 Aug 2017 : 22:00:46
I liked the book overall but it did seem disjointed at times. One of the last scenes with Mordenkainen made it appear he was writing the story. At least it did to me and that's the way I interpreted it.
waiting for the last Drizzt book to come down in price then I am done with FR, unless they release new books. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 04 Jun 2017 : 00:51:10
So, this is why resurrection is harder to cast. It's not about gods being so distant to no longer grant it, it's about them holding on that magic 'cause of Acererak's plan. From ENWorld
"Tomb of Annihilation is in the Forgotten Realms set in the Lost Continent of Chult - Away from the Sword Coast (the hosts of the live stream are very interested with undead dinosaurs). Acererak is, as many predicted, the source of this plotline as the Archlich is more or less "eating" resurrection magic from the rest of the Forgotten Realms and causing a zombie apocalypse. Pendleton Ward from Adventure Time is a creative consultant on this adventure." |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 17:22:22
quote:
Originally posted by MaskedOne
It's the only Greenwood novel (of those I've read) to date that I actively dislike. I get it, Mirt, Laeral and El are operating under some restrictions they really don't like...
but they've just spent a century operating under exceptionally harsh limitations, it's not like this is 1386 and the world has just been pulled from under their feet. Past that though, let some of the youngsters shine and if you are going to keep the idiot ball nailed to the hands of older characters then make sure that they pay in some lasting way. Possibly start by forcing Laeral to take action against Mirt for murdering a high priest in the middle of the street.
Mirt has been over the top for a while. He's a fun character, but him beating Manshoon unconscious 2 books ago was ridiculous. Granted, they were in a magic suppressing mansion, but Manshoon is still a vampire lord. His strength, agility, speed, and reflexes are all going to be superhuman. Then again, Manshoon is the comic relief villain at this point (who's been depowered now too). |
| Clegane |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 17:12:13
I gave the book a try and was disappointed. Try as I might, I just cant get into FR fiction post v.3.5. The setting, lore, and game supplements up to that point had the feeling of depth that was probably borne out of Ed's realms that he created in the 60's and nurtured through the years. 4th ed, spell plague, fast forward feels empty, commercialized, and manufactured and trying using Elminster, Laeral, Mirt, etc. feels like shoehorning for the sake of trying to say "it's still the realms really."
I think this was last book I'll buy new unless they go back to writing in FR 1300's. |
| MaskedOne |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 02:41:51
It's the only Greenwood novel (of those I've read) to date that I actively dislike. I get it, Mirt, Laeral and El are operating under some restrictions they really don't like...
but they've just spent a century operating under exceptionally harsh limitations, it's not like this is 1386 and the world has just been pulled from under their feet. Past that though, let some of the youngsters shine and if you are going to keep the idiot ball nailed to the hands of older characters then make sure that they pay in some lasting way. Possibly start by forcing Laeral to take action against Mirt for murdering a high priest in the middle of the street. |
| BrianDavion |
Posted - 11 Sep 2016 : 22:29:58
Tasheene's fate Isn't explictly spelled out, but my understanding is she basicly struck a plea deal. arranging to testify against her employer in return for concessions. likely she's now basicly serving as an agent of Mirts. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 11 Sep 2016 : 14:51:22
quote:
Originally posted by _Midnight_
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by _Midnight_
No one else was the least bit concerned that Mirt straight up murdered the first high priest that said they could not revive one of his whorespies 
I thought it was perfectly within Mirt's character. He's never reall quite been a "good guy"
Yeah, Mirt has always been shady, but he seemed to reserve the killing for people who were up to no good. He certainly wasn't reticent to hurt people in other ways to benefit himself, but it just seemed a bit jarring I guess that he would murder this guy out in the middle of the street.
Or that absolutely no one cared. Lord of not, he straight up murdered a guy without any reason in front of multiple witnesses and no one seems to care.
Also Tasheene admited to have murdered several innocent hidden lords and all seems to be forgiven with no reason at all. Just because she at first believed her employers lie that those were corrupt is no excuse. And even during that time she didn't take care to only slay her "corrupt" targets, she gleefully murders guards and house servants and just about anybody in the vicinity of her original target (she even burned down an entire brothel full of people just to hide the murder of one lord). And her punishment? Nothing at all.
Not the worst FR novel of all time, but the worst I have read for quite some time. I finished only today because I had to lay it down for extended periods of time because I couldn't stand all this stupidity going on anymore |
| Irennan |
Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 04:20:37
As I said, I really enjoyed the book, but I too had problems with Tasheene getting away like that, which left me very perplexed. Same for the usefulness (or lack thereof) of the characters that you mentioned.
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| CylverSaber |
Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 04:15:59
I overall enjoyed the book, but have some complaints. The younger characters get pretty badly treated. Vajra was portrayed as an incompetent who needed to be swatted away whenever she popped up. Jalester and Dunblade got their butts kicked at every turn, so why bother hiring them?
I think the internal story logic of the book starts to fall apart somewhere around Laeral's battle with Cazondur and Glenmaur. I like that the Chosen have been majorly depowered and need to rely on their wits, and it's good for a book like this, which is focused on the earthly concerns of a major city, to not have the gods play a big role. But after making a point of showing that resurrections aren't easy anymore, they basically made an end run around that with the body destruction/body switching elements, which really undermines the stakes for the major characters.
I love Mirt as always, but I agree it's baffling he got off without consequences for the murder of the priest, and that goes double for Tasheene who was one of the most murderous characters in the book! Really, after all the carnage and destruction, with members of the ruling government being murdered daily and it being revealed publicly that this was masterminded by a leader of the city, we never get any sense that this has actually destabilized Waterdeep, and in the end everything seems alright.
I did enjoy the inclusion of all the different elements of Waterdeep, especially the Xanathar being involved. The giants' subplot went nowhere, but it seems it's the new thing in the novels to include an obligatory game product tie-in that doesn't relate at all to the story. I liked Mordenkainen's role and would like to see more crossovers to other settings. Elminster on Athas, perhaps? |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 31 Jul 2016 : 16:37:13
I am sooooo enjoying this book. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 31 Jul 2016 : 13:49:06
Remallia Haventree (the harper leader in Waterdeep) said that the followers of Eilistraee asked her to sponsor a temple in the Field Ward. One of the nobles that were talking to her said that the Eilistraeeans wanted to build it in the North Ward (Idk why. He was opposed to the temple, perhaps he wanted to exaggerate the matter, so that Remallia wouldn't have supported them). |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 31 Jul 2016 : 08:09:30
The ruined part of Field Ward from memory |
| BrianDavion |
Posted - 31 Jul 2016 : 02:33:46
I'm trying to recall which ward was it they where building the temple of elistraee in again? |
| _Midnight_ |
Posted - 24 Jul 2016 : 23:08:12
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I forgot to leave a comment about the book.
I really enjoyed it. It does an excellent job of painting a vivid picture of the post-Sundering Waterdeep, from the intrigues of its nobles, to the common people, to the Zentharim and the Xanathar getting back to action.
Looking into the mind of Laeral, reading about her struggles, of how things just aren't like they were for her and the other Chosen, felt like meeting an old friend after a long time of absence.
There are just so many lore gems hidden throughout the book, which were one of my favourite parts of it. Information about Volo, the Seven Sisters, hints at what's coming for the Realms, or Eilistraee getting back in action, or news about what's changing in Waterdeep, and a lot of other easter eggs. I was really pleased with it.
The bit with them bursting in on a group of people playing the Lords of Waterdeep board game was funny... |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Jul 2016 : 16:52:53
I forgot to leave a comment about the book.
I really enjoyed it. It does an excellent job of painting a vivid picture of the post-Sundering Waterdeep, from the intrigues of its nobles, to the common people, to the Zentharim and the Xanathar getting back to action.
Looking into the mind of Laeral, reading about her struggles, of how things just aren't like they were for her and the other Chosen, felt like meeting an old friend after a long time of absence.
There are just so many lore gems hidden throughout the book, which were one of my favourite parts of it. Information about Volo, the Seven Sisters, hints at what's coming for the Realms, or Eilistraee getting back in action, or news about what's changing in Waterdeep, and a lot of other easter eggs. I was really pleased with it.
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| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 12 Jul 2016 : 17:26:49
Or perhaps (and this thought just occurred to me), the gods seem distant because their priests/followers aren't used to their more subtle means of communication? |
| Gyor |
Posted - 12 Jul 2016 : 15:56:46
I think its only the Faerun Pantheon that gone relatively queit, because the giant pantheon is stirring stuff up, the drow pantheon is up to mischief, and both the Mulhorandi and Untherite pantheons are VERY, VERY ACTIVE. And of course so is the dragon pantheon with Tiamats mischief and Tzchazzar ruling a Chessenta city again. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 12 Jul 2016 : 14:45:24
Ed commented on Eilistraee last year, http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=13#468322 and it looks like both she and Vhaeraun have been appearing to their people. Plus, a direct appearance under the walls of the city, in a very specific location, with many people being aware of that (and the rumors being very widespread), and her followers traveling there just after the event, is unlikely to be a falsehood IMO. I mean it would be easy to tell if the 9ft tall drow goddess actually appeared or not.
As for Mystra's ban, while reading the novel, I was under the impression that it mostly applied to mind-reading spells used against magic users? They are painful to use, but not forbidden on other targets. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 12 Jul 2016 : 14:19:12
Just finished it, quite enjoyed it overall. The last few chapters are especially good reading. Lots and lots of Waterdeep lore for those that love the city, ended up taking notes the whole way through. Left with plenty of questions, and would still kill for a new Waterdeep sourcebook... but perhaps one day. It does jump around a lot between different characters, but I was impressed that I ended up caring about nearly all of them. All in all, good fun. Essential reading for understanding the city (and the Realms) in the 1490s DR.
As far as the gods go, I don't particularly mind them becoming more distant, and I'm eager to see what they're planning to do with this whole "no resurrection unless the god really really likes you" thing. It's a pretty huge deal for people roleplaying the world, so it would be nice to see this clarified sooner rather than later, along with a couple other specifics - like does Mystra's ban on mind-reaming extend to Detect Thoughts spells? Is resurrection singled out as the the only limited divine magic? Did Eilistraee really appear or manifest an avatar, or were the second-hand accounts just falsehoods and she too has withdrawn from the world?
Much Realmsthirst was quenched reading Death Masks, but in typical Ed style, he left me with more questions than when I started. More plz. |
| _Midnight_ |
Posted - 11 Jul 2016 : 13:37:19
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by _Midnight_
No one else was the least bit concerned that Mirt straight up murdered the first high priest that said they could not revive one of his whorespies
I thought it was perfectly within Mirt's character. He's never reall quite been a "good guy"
Yeah, Mirt has always been shady, but he seemed to reserve the killing for people who were up to no good. He certainly wasn't reticent to hurt people in other ways to benefit himself, but it just seemed a bit jarring I guess that he would murder this guy out in the middle of the street. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 11 Jul 2016 : 06:09:27
There were a lot of character actions that none of the other characters seemed to object to. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 11 Jul 2016 : 06:05:35
quote:
Originally posted by _Midnight_
No one else was the least bit concerned that Mirt straight up murdered the first high priest that said they could not revive one of his whorespies
I thought it was perfectly within Mirt's character. He's never reall quite been a "good guy" |
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