| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 24 May 2015 : 07:34:09
Greetings fellow Realms enthusiasts,
Several years ago I made a goal to read *every* novel from the major D&D worlds/settings. After blasting through the smaller libraries of Darksun, Ravenloft, and Planescape, I decided to tackle Dragonlance. Just recently I finished my 166th and final Dragonlance book. And now I have my sights set on the Forgotten Realms, a no-doubt Herculean task that will make DL easy by comparison.
As I finish each book I plan make a post in this thread. Some may be quite lengthy, others only a sentence or three, all depending on how deeply the story resonated with me and/or its greater importance in Realms lore. This is not a "book club" attempt, in that I won't be holding to any set schedule or waiting for others to finish a particular book. My pace is roughly one 300 page book per week, though occasionally I go on a torrid streak and can sometimes double that. So I won't limit my reading so others can read along with. That being said, I heartily encourage fellow Candlekeepers to jump right in with their own commentary. This can be a fun, nostalgic for some, trip through the history of the novel line. My only rules are thus:
1. I will make no attempt to hide spoilers for books as I finish them, so reader beware. This shouldn't pose much of a problem, as the material (in the early going specifically) is close to 30 years old.
2. Please, please, please, when discussing a book I've read, do NOT divulge spoilers that may occur further down the line as a result of said book.
3. Keep it civil. There are some author's writing styles that turn me off a bit, and I won't be shy about saying so, but it will be done in a manner that isn't toxic bashing.
My order of reading is going to loosely follow publishing date. I say loosely, because I will (early and often) deviate from this order when it makes sense, such as finishing up a series, or staying within a certain theme/region/etc. With that said, I began this endeavor with 1987's Darkwalker on Moonshae. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 22 Apr 2023 : 16:58:22
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
I liked seeing Shakti Hunzrin and her House play a role in the machinations of Menzoberranzan. I'm not sure if Elaine has continued to read this thread, now that we've advanced so far beyond her last contribution to the novel line. But if she does, I wonder if it pleases her to see her creation live on in another's work.
I always questioned how Shakti survived the death of Vhaeraun. Wouldn't Lolth suddenly know she had been a traitor priestess since he no longer shielded her mind so lolth could not realize she was a double agent?
Why "could not realize she was a double agent"?
They affected her with magic pretty much simultaneously and she did not hide that scrying device too much.
And she clearly is not the sort to preach for Vhaerun behind Lolth's back, so... what he expects to gain by giving her power? Also, this happens in context of the last developments: Liriel on (what they know to be) the big game-changing quest to fix the Weave. In light of that, Lolth and Vhaerun both expect their activities to expand, in different ways. So while they still compete, they are about to have less pressure for direct confrontation and more matters of common interests.
Thus, to me it looks like Shakti is not really "hidden", but a known and allowed double priestess, i.e. designated backchannel (among the other things). |
| Irennan |
Posted - 20 Apr 2023 : 03:39:32
I think that's mostly a safety measure. It's not like Lolth aoutomatically knows what's in the mind of everyone.
If you don't buy into that, you can use Ed's lore about what happened to Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Vhaeraun didn't die: Eilistraee actually spared him and enveloped his consciousness in a dream within the Weave with Mystra's help, while borrowing his portfolio for a while. That was part of a plan that Mystra had devised to ensure the survival of both drow deities, as the development of magical creatures like the drow is among her goals (as we learn in Silverfall) and having allies opposing Lolth is key to that.
Then, when Qilué was killed. her soul returned to the Weave, dragging along most of Eilistraee's and Vhaeraun's power with her. While Eilistraee was left powerless and only able to act "locally" through manifestations, it's quite possible that Vhaeraun continued shielding the minds of his Masked Traitors while he wa sin the weave dream. Maybe, with both his and his sister's power being trapped within strands of the unraveled Weave, and with him being in one such strands, he may have had access to some part of that power.
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| Firestorm |
Posted - 20 Apr 2023 : 00:15:57
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
True indeed, Seravin. And now, to avoid beating it to death, I'll move on. I finished Hero a few nights ago. I was struck by the amount and frequency of typos in this book. RAS books are normally squeaky clean of such things, so this definitely stood out. Some were directional mistakes, like "Heading EAST towards the Sword Coast."
It took me awhile to get on board with Drizzt's strange bout with solipsism. But knowing it is a Lolth inspired curse laid upon him makes it a whole lot more palatable. I liked the scene where Jarlaxle and Yvonnel are arguing over why Drizzt can't mend his own mind. Jarlaxle can't understand why he can't simply explain to Drizzt that it is an illness and have him "get over it", while Yvonnel understands it runs much deeper than that. It was very obviously RAS allegorically writing about the current state of mental illness and all the misconceptions that go along with it, but I found it to be effective. At one point, a less mature version of myself wondered why a mentally ill individual can't simply have that pointed out to them and then get better.
The assault of gods-awful names continues. Now we have Toofless Tonguelasher and Captain Mallabie Pudwinker to join the All-Time list.
Speaking of captains and boats, I thought it absurd that Regis - with genasi blood in him and a well-documented affinity for the ocean in his second life - would become seasick on their short ocean voyage.
I liked seeing Shakti Hunzrin and her House play a role in the machinations of Menzoberranzan. I'm not sure if Elaine has continued to read this thread, now that we've advanced so far beyond her last contribution to the novel line. But if she does, I wonder if it pleases her to see her creation live on in another's work.
I LOVED the monk training sequences in the Yellow Rose Monastery. I could read an entire 400 page book that had nothing but monks going about their daily lives, training, meditating, attaining higher mastery, etc. I touched on this before, but obviously RAS feels the same way. Drizzt is very intrigued by the mental discipline of these ascetics, and has expressed a desire to continue learning their ways in the future once he ties up some other loose ends - a prospect that has me very excited.
Another behir appeared in this book, making it two straight novels, so that was awesome.
I liked Enteri's redemption arc for the most part. RAS didn't try to turn him into a choir boy, he's still very rough around the edges, but at least there's a spark of hope in him. Yvonnel, on the other hand, I'm having a hard time buying in on. I think it's a cool idea that her Second Life self is full of questions regarding the status quo and wants to shake things up a bit, but her transformation from Drizzt nemesis to championing his cause was a bit too abrupt. And to be honest I'm not even sure if she really is trying to help him or simply wants to cure him to make his punishment more severe, as she keeps "bluffing" (I think) to the yochlol.
Lastly, around page 400 this one started to fall off the rails a bit, starting with a really weird encounter with Lolth. I've expressed my disdain in the past for any direct encounters with deities, and this one was no exception. It just feels like there's no rhyme or reason governing the gods of Forgotten Realms - they can be near omnipotent forces one minute, directly deciding events on Toril, and the next they are behind the scenes schemers, only able to subtly influence through the clever use of their adherents. They can be omniscient one moment, and then stumbling buffoons the next, more akin to the Greek gods with all their faults and human foibles. If Lolth can manifest in all her glory, like she did towards the end of this book, why wouldn't she do so in other, more critical moments? Like, I don't know... the Siege of Mithril Hall a century ago, when the battle hung on a razor's edge. Her addition to the drow lines would've overwhelmingly tipped that war into the hands of the dark elves.
Moving on, I'm about halfway through the final Greenwood book (for now anyway), Death Masks.
I always questioned how Shakti survived the death of Vhaeraun. Wouldn't Lolth suddenly know she had been a traitor priestess since he no longer shielded her mind so lolth could not realize she was a double agent? |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 26 Aug 2021 : 02:01:50
Well it took over a year, but I finished Relentless, which I thought would bring the Realms novels to a final bow. But no, RAS has since announced yet another trilogy due out, so apparently it will be quite some time before I officially put this to bed.
This most recent book was ok, but I feel like we're just treading water now. Half the book is in the present while half is a prequel of Zaknafein's days back in ol' Menzo. These parts are my favorite, as I get to relive events from Homeland from a different perspective. The modern day stuff has me a bit disinterested though. Keeping all the Matron Mothers of the various houses straight is getting harder for me, particularly when we intersperse the flashback chapters in with the others. As for the protagonists - RAS's list of characters has just grown so big and unwieldy. Everyone has multiple class levels, god-level artifacts, it's just gotten to be a bit much...
Still entertaining reading, but I feel like it's mostly the diehard completionist in me that keeps it going.
Starlight Enclave review coming in another year or so, I guess. |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 02 Aug 2020 : 20:24:22
Last week I finished Boundless which was the most recent RAS/Drizzt novel, that is until the next one came out just days ago. The more I find out about Zaknafein, the more of his mystique fades. Here we see him stumbling about Menzoberranzan, drunk and mopey instead of the ultra-focused killing machine I'm used to seeing. I get that he needed to be "humanized" a bit more in these prequels to flesh him out, but I guess it's like they say - never meet your heroes. Ditto for the city itself - in the original Dark Elf trilogy Drizzt was almost wholly unique in his outlook (with the possible exception of Zak). Now we see a bit of a softer side of Menzo, as well as more open discontent among the oppressed males. Either Bob is writing through a different lens some 30 years later, or maybe we could just say the original books were written from the perspective of a younger, more naïve Drizzt that only knew the rhetoric and propaganda of the Lolthite priestesses and probably had very little opportunity to explore more of his home city.
I know we had some brief discussions on females in Bregan D'Aerthe - well they had an actual priestess of Lolth, Dab'nay Tr'Ararch (admittedly a rather unimportant one who also was weak in her faith), but that is an impressive get for the organization, doubly so when you consider the timeline and Jarlaxle's smaller base of power/influence/experience back then.
Up topside, I do like the demon possession storyline going on, as that has always been one of my favorite sub-genres of horror/fantasy. Drizzt's continued progress on the monk path is of particular interest to me. Gromph appears ready to betray the Scooby Gang, I'd be surprised if he did otherwise, Zak seems to slowly be shedding his xenophobia and accepting the strange allies his son has thrown in with. Other than that though, the story appears to be stuck in neutral. Demons attack, both sides take some losses, they fall back and there's a reprieve, etc. Hopefully we're heading towards a major resolution in the next book, as I'm guessing it just might be the very last in this entire line - a bittersweet thought for sure.
Up next - Relentless for the finish, but I'll wait a few months for it to come out in paperback. After finishing some ~600 or so books in the worlds of Dragonlance, Planescape, Darksun, Ravenloft, Greyhawk, Mystara/Known World, Spelljammer, Nentir Vale, etc. my bookcases can only hold so much more and I'd rather have the smaller, more compact version at this point. So... I guess I'll see you guys then? I tried to peruse through the "Active Topics" tab, but I feel like an old man trying to find directions to program his VCR while everyone else is talking about streaming content. I am actively following the development of Baldurs Gate 3 by Larian Studios, because the first two were such a huge part of my adolescence. But that appears to be among the last tenuous threads tethering myself to this wonderful setting that once took up such a huge portion of my imagination. |
| Hyperion |
Posted - 23 Apr 2020 : 11:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
*EDIT* I checked out the Piazza (how have I never seen that site before) and was in awe of all the topics spread out over the various worlds and even sub-settings of D&D. It seems really buggy though, incredibly long load times and lots of crashing. Does it always run this poorly?
No it seems to be a temporal problem of this morning only. Now it works fine apparently.
Yes The Piazza was born mainly for Spelljammer and Mystara when Wizards closed the subforums dedicated to them back in 2008. Later Wizards closed completely all its forum, I think two years ago, so it also gathered Eberron and Nentir Vales fans as well as other campaign settings (such as Calidar, Bruce Heard's new setting) because the rule there is to allow the creation of a subforum when there are enough fans present.
Obviously other D&D and non D&D campaign worlds have their main forum elsewhere, but it is nice to have a platform where you can discuss a variety of campaign setting and rules. |
| Hyperion |
Posted - 23 Apr 2020 : 11:51:48
Anyway The Piazza has three threads on the Cloakmaster cycle and you are welcome to intervene even in old threads if you want to:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13122&p=152768
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22656&p=238339
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1413&p=16710 |
| Hyperion |
Posted - 23 Apr 2020 : 11:39:49
Birtright seems to have another lively forum here http://www.birthright.net/forums/ but I've never read it. |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 23 Apr 2020 : 11:34:01
quote:
Originally posted by Hyperion
If you are reading Spelljammer novel and plan to read the Mystara ones too you may wish to pop up in the Forum which gathers most of the fans of these campaign settings, which is The Piazza http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/index.php. I think there are also the most lively Eberron and Nentir Vale forums, if you wish to read the books set in these settings too. I'm Sturm on The Piazza.
Thanks for the tip. I'm almost done with book 5 of the Spelljammer thing, so I probably wouldn't jump into a conversation on that now, as I've already forgotten many details from the previous 4. I plan to start the Birthright novels next, I think there are 5 individual novels.
*EDIT* I checked out the Piazza (how have I never seen that site before) and was in awe of all the topics spread out over the various worlds and even sub-settings of D&D. It seems really buggy though, incredibly long load times and lots of crashing. Does it always run this poorly? |
| Hyperion |
Posted - 23 Apr 2020 : 08:48:25
If you are reading Spelljammer novel and plan to read the Mystara ones too you may wish to pop up in the Forum which gathers most of the fans of these campaign settings, which is The Piazza http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/index.php. I think there are also the most lively Eberron and Nentir Vale forums, if you wish to read the books set in these settings too. I'm Sturm on The Piazza. |
| AJA |
Posted - 23 Apr 2020 : 00:13:05
Reigar and their Shakti (and Helots and Lakshu) are direct from the Spelljammer setting. Google leads me to the MC7 Monstrous Compendium Spelljammer Appendix (as Wooly mentions above). 1990, which would have been before the Cloakmaster novels. Another good example of how Elaine always researched her settings in depth before writing her stories.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Apr 2020 : 23:17:09
I've noticed that some of Elaine's character names are actually Earth names, but not ones often seen in America. From a quick Google search, Shakti is the name of a Hindu deity, and means "power" in Sanskrit. I've also seen Matteo, Danilo, and Tzigone as names in the real-world -- names that predate Elaine's use of them.
As for giant space hamsters... They received a full, two-page write-up in one of the Spelljammer appendices to the Monstrous Compendium. My username and the relevant part of my sig are from that write-up (Wooly Rupert was the nickname for the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen, a possibly legendary gnome-hating beast larger than a Tyrannohamsterus Rex). |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 22 Apr 2020 : 21:34:23
I'm currently reading The Cloakmaster Cycle - a 6 part Spelljammer series. I'm on book 5 currently and there are a few tangential connections to the Realms so I figure I'd throw them all in here:
Book 2: Into the Void shows the main character escaping Krynn (Dragonlance) and heading to Toril. Unfortunately he lands in a region called Rauthaven, which seems so obscure I can't even find it on a Forgotten Realms wiki (*EDIT* it appears to be a town/city on the island of Nimbral, yup pretty obscure)
There is also mention of giant space hamsters that power the gnomish ship by running on one of those spinning wheels. While not specifically FR, it was something that got my attention, not only because it is also in Wooly Rupert's signature, but also Boo - of Boo and Minsc fame - is said to be a miniaturized giant space hamster.
Book 3: The Maelstrom's Eye - I can't recall anything FR from this one
Book 4: The Radiant Dragon - written by Elaine Cunningham, and found by me in the basement of a used book store (the primary [only?] reason I purchased this series), this one has a few things worth mentioning.
There is a ship called the Windwalker. This book was written in 1992, did Elaine have that in mind 9 years later when her book of that name came out, or just a coincidence? Furthermore, there is a spacefaring race called reigar that are amazing craftsman/artists, and are known for creating an item that functions much like a more powerful/versatile figurine of wondrous power that is attuned to its creator. These items are called shakti. Ok, Daughter of the Drow came out just 2 or 3 years later, so I know that one wasn't a coincidence! The only question I would have for EC is was that intentional, or was that word just floating around in her head for a few years and came out as a plump, near-sighted, unattractive rothe-herder with an even more surly than usual disposition?
Book 5: The Broken Sphere has a half-orc crewman on the main character's ship that hails originally from Baldurs Gate.
|
| Seravin |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 14:29:32
Wow..these 4 in a row are all in my top 10 as well:
"4. The Simbul's Gift - Lynn Abbey is a challenging read but well worth the effort. This is easily the best representation of Thay to be found, amazing effort.
5. Cormyr: A Novel - well anyone who has read this thread at all knows that Jeff Grubb and Ed Greenwood, while BRILLIANT designers/world builders, are among (if not *the*) least enjoyable authors to my reading sensibilities. But when they combined their efforts they spun an absolute masterpiece. I think in my review I mentioned something about how each was able to counteract what I find distasteful in the other: meaning Ed was able to reign in Jeff's proclivity towards goofiness, and Jeff was able to focus Ed's frenetic, manic, shotgun-spray energy into a cohesive, focused story. The term "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" has never been more apt than when applied to this gem.
6. City of Ravens - I loved the main character, despite not normally enjoying the roguish types. This was just a super fun swashbuckling adventure, not much more to say than that.
7. Black Wolf - I've liked a lot of Dave Gross's books, but he really knocked it out of the park with this one. I think some of the most enjoyable villains in the entire novel line were found in this one: Rusk, as well as Stannis and Radu Malveen were awesome (quick shout out to Borran Klosk from Jewel of Turmish as another great baddie). Seravin mentioned how this one evoked the feel of those old Universal monster movies from the early/mid 1900s era."
Quite like them all, although I'd almost say City of Ravens and Prince of Ravens are kind of a series rather than individuals since they're so darn similar with same characters!
Wooly - do read The Simbul's Gift...it's brilliant.
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| Hyperion |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 14:08:52
Very interesting list, I'm reading FR novels myself and I hope I will be eventually able to complete the whole bunch as you did but even if I already have them all except the last three by Salvatore, I'm still way behind! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 13:57:34
I really need to read The Simbul's Gift... I never have gotten to it because I was burning out on Realms novels and a couple of the other Nobles books didn't work for me. I had issues with King Pinch and Escape from Undermountain, and I couldn't finish War in Tethyr -- it's the only Realms novel I started but never finished.
So by the time The Simbul's Gift came out, I was extremely disinclined to read it.
I've heard only good things about it, though, so I need to find my copy and check it out. |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 09 Apr 2020 : 13:30:00
Favorite Individual Books
Once again, no particular order. These are just some of the ones I felt stood out from the pack for various reasons:
1. Homeland - there is no list that doesn't include this book. It's the only one where I included both the series and an individual novel. If I'm stranded on a deserted island and I only have one book, it's probably going to be Ready Player One or The Hitchiker's Guide, or maybe Good Omens. But if the rules stipulate it has to be an FR book, it's absolutely Homeland and there isn't a close second choice. I could expound in great detail why this is the case, but I think I already did that back on page 1 of this thread.
2. Night Parade - much like the Moonshae Trilogy, this is one of those polarizing books that you either like a lot or strongly dislike. I recall Seravin not caring for the horror vibe and/or less Realmsian feel, but Jorkens listing it among his top 2-3 books in the entire line. I thought it was a lot of fun, this gypsy-like carnival of freakish monsters strolling into town to steal children - like a mash-up HP Lovecraft, Clive Barker, and Ray Bradbury (Something Wicked This Way Comes) and I really enjoyed it.
3. Realms of Valor - I had to throw one anthology in there, and much like the Dragonlance line, the first is usually the best. And this one had such gems!!: Dark Mirror - easily my favorite short story, One Last Drink - a carryover of a character and author I really enjoyed from the Ravenloft line, as well as a smattering of great early stories that augmented many of those formative novels - there was a Moonshae story, Elminster at the Mage Faire (before I grew to despise him), an Artus Cimber prequel story, an early offering from Elaine C., just a really solid collection of tales that helped establish those halcyon days when the Forgotten Realms was really bursting with creative energy.
4. The Simbul's Gift - Lynn Abbey is a challenging read but well worth the effort. This is easily the best representation of Thay to be found, amazing effort.
5. Cormyr: A Novel - well anyone who has read this thread at all knows that Jeff Grubb and Ed Greenwood, while BRILLIANT designers/world builders, are among (if not *the*) least enjoyable authors to my reading sensibilities. But when they combined their efforts they spun an absolute masterpiece. I think in my review I mentioned something about how each was able to counteract what I find distasteful in the other: meaning Ed was able to reign in Jeff's proclivity towards goofiness, and Jeff was able to focus Ed's frenetic, manic, shotgun-spray energy into a cohesive, focused story. The term "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" has never been more apt than when applied to this gem.
6. City of Ravens - I loved the main character, despite not normally enjoying the roguish types. This was just a super fun swashbuckling adventure, not much more to say than that.
7. Black Wolf - I've liked a lot of Dave Gross's books, but he really knocked it out of the park with this one. I think some of the most enjoyable villains in the entire novel line were found in this one: Rusk, as well as Stannis and Radu Malveen were awesome (quick shout out to Borran Klosk from Jewel of Turmish as another great baddie). Seravin mentioned how this one evoked the feel of those old Universal monster movies from the early/mid 1900s era.
8. Bladesinger - I loved this book and was a tiny bit miffed that it got no discussion. While reading and reviewing all of the "Classes" line, I surmised that they weren't well received at the time and didn't get a whole lot of exposure. That's a shame because there were a few gems among them. Here's a snippet from my original writeup: "The author did an amazing job making me "feel" the region of Rashemen. In many books I admit I'm guilty of somewhat glossing over the descriptions of weather, trees, scenery and so on. I sometimes find it to be little more than window dressing, page filler. Strohm's work in this area was terrific. It really made the soul of this region shine, making the setting almost like a character in itself." The characters were all very deep and nuanced as well, albeit very damaged - almost like the entire group were outcasts from society due to various failures in their lives, and this is their last chance at redemption. I've always liked that type, I guess like Tyrion Lannister said, "I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things." This was a terrific book and worth a try for anyone reading this.
9. Bloodwalk - a very unique book by James P. Davis and another unheralded gem from the Classes series. This one took a few liberties I think with a unique type of spellcaster, but I never let rules get in the way of a good story. The villain was exquisite and the main hero was extremely interesting. I would love to see this book adapted into a movie, as the visuals were so strong.
10. Stardeep - great precursor to the Abolethic Sovereignty series. I don't recall if the blade Angul was introduced in this one or first appeared in Darkvision but there's some awesome development here and this is the book where I really started to get on board with Cordell's very unique vision and storytelling.
11. The Edge of Chaos - the only FR novel written by Jak Koke, this one really gripped me, especially towards the end. It handles a lot of very mature themes and is heartbreakingly bleak at times. Don't read if you prefer your fantasy to be more whimsical and lighthearted. But if you're into grittier fare, it's a good one. I'd have liked to see some more from this promising author, but alas...
12. Unbroken Chain - I was torn between putting this book here or leaving it off and putting it, with it's sequel (The Darker Road) into the Favorite Series category. In the end I decided on this path, though I could easily justify either option. I know by this time in the WoTC development of the Realms, many of the old-schoolers jumped off the boat in dismay at several distasteful changes to "Our Realms", but this one is worth a look for even the most diehard grognard. Seriously, it is excellent. It vies for my favorite FR novel overall. Jaleigh Johnson is a terrific author and this is her best contribution to the line. I guess the only knock - it could be said this is less of an FR book being that so much of the action takes place in the Shadowfell. But I'm not deducting any points for that, discovering the city of Ikemmu filled me with the same sense of wonder that Menzoberranzan did some ~25 years earlier (before we were inundated with drow.) I can't say enough good things about this story, it is remarkable.
13. Sandstorm - I must be drawn to stories with traveling carnivals or something, because here we find another. The kenku barker was a nice touch, as was the goliath strongman. This book made me really get on board with the 4e changes to genasi. Lastly, while many of us have lamented the changes to various regions in the Realms - most notably Thay and Sembia, I thought this one showed off a brilliant reinvention of The Lands of Intrigue. Calimshan got a much-needed breath of life injected into it and I love the more fantastical elements (pun intended) that have been included. Yet another story by an FR author who only got a one book deal... It pains me to think about all the wonderful tales that could've been penned had WoTC gone in a different direction.
Ok, that about wraps that category up. Going back and checking out the list I am in awe at how many 4e and 5e books are included. I always considered myself an old-timer and actually considered stopping cold at the Spellplague/100 year time jump, basically just declaring that event to be the end of my Realms. I'm glad I stuck it out because there's some really good stuff written in the more modern period. Anyone else have any particular favorites that they feel are egregious omissions? Yeah, yeah, I know... Azure Bonds... *sigh* :) |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 17:17:59
Ok, here it is. In no particular order, I've come up with a few categories of things to touch on:
Favorite Series
Favorite Individual Books
Favorite Authors
Miscellaneous "Moments" that don't fit any particular category
Series
Again, I won't place these in any particular order, it's not a countdown list, mainly because my thoughts on that kind of ranking system could change daily. It's just a random list, probably most influenced by chronology, as I just finished reading the thread and was jotting down some notes as I did so. Here goes:
1. The Moonshae Trilogy - might as well kick things off by being as polarizing as possible, right? I loved this series back in the day and I loved it just as much on the re-read. I recall being heavily in the minority, but the few supporters I found were ardent. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, as there are an abundance of those who strongly disliked it. I think most people really hated Tristan Kendrick as the main protagonist, but I was fine with him being a bit of a fratboy butthead. It made room for personal growth and improvement (though admittedly there was little) and also I just flat out prefer flawed heroes over perfect paragons of virtue. I think Jaime Lannister (incest and oath-breaking included) makes for a more compelling *character* than Ned Stark, even though I vastly prefer Ned as a *person*, if that makes any sense. That being said, the protagonist has to have some redeeming value or I get equally turned off. Tristan is a bit of a selfish clod at times, but he tries hard and he's generally a good-hearted type for the most part.
But the series is so much more than him. The Earthmother vs. Kazgaroth was such a monumental battle to my teenage (and later) mind. As I mentioned in the very first review, environmental conservation/protection is one of the most important causes in my personal life, so I'm always drawn to this type of story about a force (usually industry/progress, but in this case just plain evil/chaos) despoiling pristine places of natural splendor. I cheered for every victory for the forces of good, and wept as the Earthmother's beautiful children fell to darkness, first the Leviathan and later Kammeryn the unicorn. I think the scenes that affected me most profoundly were the animals of the forest being consumed by the Darkwell to be repurposed into corrupt, hybrid forms. It evokes the same feeling of dread I experience everytime I see animals killed or driven from their habitats by forest fires, war, irresponsible industry, etc. Plus this trilogy really set the table for the product line, so it could be a small part of my affection for it is tied to nostalgia, though I still enjoyed it tremendously on the re-read.
2. The Dark Elf Trilogy - I've re-read this series I don't know how many times. As I mentioned in a semi-recent post, I know there are some who will groan at this inclusion due to Drizzt oversaturation, but for the early part of the Realms this was the shining example and nothing else even came close. Even though I read the Icewind Dale trilogy first (as I'm guessing most did), and rank it up there amongst the best, upon re-read I found a few flaws in it and have to put Drizzt's origin tale a few notches higher. I don't know if anything inspired my teenage imagination quite like the majesty of Menzoberranzan leaping off the pages. And what awkward teen nerd can't relate to the angst of a lonely figure who feels completely out of place in a world where he can't possibly fit in? RAS has had a long and insanely productive career, but this was his magnum opus and a game-changer for me on a personal level and its impact on TSR/WoTC, D&D, and the genre of fantasy in general cannot be denied.
3. Starlight and Shadows - this was such a hard decision to make. Elaine Cunningham gave us several terrific series, I didn't want to list them all and dominate this category with her works, but at the same time there was simply no way I was leaving her off it. There was much to love about the Song and Swords series as well as the Halruuan series, but in the end I went with S+S. It wasn't an easy decision, and I feel like one has to evaluate Elaine's entire body of work as a whole to truly appreciate how much she helped shape this world in such a delightful manner. As for this particular series, it took me a long while to get on board with Liriel, but Fyodor was a hit right from the start. My particular favorite was Windwalker with its raven imagery, Rashemi nature spirts (the Woodman!), the hut of Baba Yaga making an appearance, Norse-inspired runework, Eilistraee's role, Liriel's transformation into some kind of psychopomp soul deliverer, it was all gold. On a side note, as I was typing Elaine Cunningh… into the search engine, it started to autofill "Elaine Cunningham Obituary" and I nearly had a goddam heart attack. Apologies to the EC that actually died, but it wasn't our beloved author. We don't need 2020 to get any more depressing, right?
4. The Erevis Cale Saga - omigod, allow me to gush for a bit. I knew by page 3 this was going to be a magnificent tale. I can't even point out one particular aspect of it that sets it apart from the pack. The quality of writing is off the charts throughout the entirety of this story. The psychology of the characters, the action, the intrigue, the tension-packed moments, the tear-jerkers (Bowny!), just everything about it is top-notch. Just the other day I ordered Kemp's Egil and Nix trilogy, I just have to see if he can keep up this quality in his own original setting.
5. The Last Mythal - aside from the absolutely terrible gaffe of having demons and devils working together (even if it's discovered in book 3 that they were coerced), Baker really nailed this trilogy. I loved the lore setting it up, the logistics of the various armies moving through the region, just the epic scope of it all. It felt like some kind of fantasy World War II story with the various factions all vying to carve out their own slice of the pie.
6. Abolethic Sovereignty - it took me a bit to get on board with Cordell's writing - I think his first book I described as too "magi-tek" and "Eberrony". But by the time I got to Stardeep, a book that sets the tone for this trilogy, I had adjusted to his sensibilities and really started to enjoy it. Angul, the sentient sword with a crusader's zeal, was one of the most fun "characters" I've read in quite some time. Cordell came up with a bunch of really outlandish but awesome characters - Cynosure the golem defense mechanism, The Lord of Bats, Japeth - the drug addled goth "Trent Reznor" warlock, a Dagon-descended pirate captain, just a really bizarre cast of characters. The content was more of the cosmic horror genre, so some might feel it's not as Realmsian as some series, but I thought it was the perfect pairing of author and subject matter, as Cordell was easily the best pick for this type of Lovecraftian fare.
7. Chosen of Nendawen - surprised to see this here? Me too. I loved the primal feel of it, set out on a frontier region away from the main cities and centers of civilization. I thought Mark Sehestedt did maybe the best job I've seen of describing the fey - mysterious, otherworldly, whimsical yet capricious - he struck just the right blend of being descriptive while also leaving enough off the plate for the reader to come to some of their own conclusions. This series won't be for everyone, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.
Ok, that's all for now. I'll pick up probably tomorrow with Favorite Individual Books. |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 08 Apr 2020 : 15:45:42
quote:
Originally posted by Iahn Qoyllor
Wow, mate, so sad to hear that this journey has essentially ended (Boundless aside), however I have looked forward to each and every one of your posts. It has been an absolute pleasure reading all your reviews and I have been so grateful for the time you've put in conveying your thoughts and feelings to us all here. Would be great to see summation if you get time!
I finished the Realms books a couple of years ago and have since dipped into Dragonlance, Ravenloft and Greyhawk as my next mission, however have stuck with the Dark Sun novels for now and am on number 7 out of 16. Nothing can replace the Realms though...
Thanks Iahn, it's been a fun voyage. I'm glad you got something out of it, my hope all along was to bring us all along for a trip down memory lane. I love that you are reading the other TSR worlds. I'm currently halfway through the 6-part Spelljammer series and have 5 or 6 Birthright books in the queue next. Just now I finished my re-read of all 41 pages of this thread. A summation post is soon to follow, just thought I'd do a little house-cleaning first.
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
I've joined this thread late, mostly lurked and commented sparingly (and I think almost always to disagree on some interpretation - sorry! - or throw in some canon game-material information) but I enjoyed every line of your posts.
This thread helped keep the Realms novel line alive even for someone like me that only dipped into it (and I've followed or will follow some of your recommendations).
I bow to your dedication to the Realms (and to book-reading in general) for pulling this off.
Thanks Demzer, you may have jumped in late but I believe you were one of the major players in the discussion on the Selunite temple being involved in the twin atrocities of taking advantage of underage women and the "sale of indulgences" in a RAS book. That was one of my FAVORITE debates in this entire 5 year journey! I know some people thought it was getting a bit too contentious at times (I received multiple apologetic/concerned private messages) but I value a good debate and never felt offended in the slightest. I've been known to push a little too hard with my viewpoints at times, and if at any point in this entire scroll I've typed something that caused offense to any of the readers here at CK - please understand that it's all in good fun; a way to relive what were for many of us formative teenage/young adult years, and just to stimulate lively discourse.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I've been a lurker for the most part too, but I've thoroughly enjoyed your reviews and your well-articulated opinions. Thank you for this thread!
Lurker? Yeah right! Your encyclopediac knowledge (and obvious passion) regarding all-things Eilistraee, as well as great contributions to other various subjects, has been a huge boon to this thread overall. You should give yourself far more credit, sir.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Magnificent effort. And very insightful and useful. Kudos on your dedication.
-- Georg Krashos
George, I feel like I should copy/paste the same comment right back at you. All thread long you've been Johnny-On-The-Spot with timely tidbits of lore and behind the scenes knowledge. Your contributions to this thread have been tremendous.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm re-reading the Finder's Stone books right now, partially because of this post... And I have to ask, what lame jokes? I'm up to Song of the Saurials now, and I'm not seeing the puns or jokes. There's a riff on Clyde Caldwell, but that's the only thing that I can immediately think of.
Wooly,
Your own contributions to this thread have been on a Krashos level of mightiness, so I don't love that this interaction comes down to our continued differing opinions on this matter :) But since you asked, here is a small smattering of Grubbisms I jotted down from earlier pages. Many (most?) of them are after the initial Alias trilogy. Also, it is not a comprehensive list of everything, just some odds and ends I picked out from the dark recesses of my brain, but here goes:
Terrible dialogue from Moander's avatar as well as the ancient red dragon (forgot his name.) Both speak like they are country bumpkins and not some of the mightiest beings in existence.
Giant sludge Moander flying across the Dalelands like some awful Japanese kaiju flick from the 1950s.
From the Tymora's Luck summary:
"It was then I started to notice more of the Grubbisms. I don't know if they were present all along and I just sort of blocked them up to that point because I was enjoying the story or what, but all of the sudden they just started coming at me in rapid succession. From the relatively benign (the imp using the word incommunicado), to the silly (Jasmine saying "that's just ducky", Holly saying "I don't think we're in Gehenna anymore" - that one was for you Seravin!), to the over-the-top goofy (Holly calling the fusion chamber the "few chin chamber", the character of Fizz Something, etc.) it seems like the last 50 pages went a bit slapstick. This was capped off when Iyachtu Xvim tripped and fell over a cat. I didn't make that up. Lathander had gathered up several idols representing good and bad luck (horseshoe, rabbit's foot, etc.), one of which was a black cat. Xvim backed up, not seeing the cat, and was tripped to the ground. A god. Felled by a housecat and clumsiness. C'mon...."
From Realms of Mystery:
- A bad guy with the name "Big Ugly"
- A reference to "riding crossbow" on the carriage. Hahaha, get it, like riding shotgun....
- An actual quote: "Had I been thinking about my mystoricals I could have toughed it out, thought of some glib explanation, but in truth I had been wowsered by the beauty of the box." Really? "Wowsered" was the best verb he could come up with to show being impressed with something?
- a bit of meta humor with the main character donning the illusion of a drow and naming himself Ziixxxita (because drow have lots of Z's and X's in their names) and completing the image with twin curved swords...
I know you and Seravin like to latch onto the "We're not in the Realms anymore" line, but that was actually one of the more benign Grubbisms, it just happened to be the one I though of at the time. For me it's not the strength of the stench, it's the frequency of it. It's hard to read 5 consecutive pages of any Grubb novel without some small pun or callback to our own world. It's death by a thousand papercuts rather than a massive decapitation all at once. That's the best way I can explain it. I know that won't change your mind or Seravin's. And going all the way back to my very first review of Azure Bonds, I did mention a lot of aspects I thought were great with the book. Grubb is a great conceptual storyteller, I love his premises and ideas, it's just the execution gets bogged down by him goofing off [MUCH] too frequently for my personal preference.
But enough of this. Your presence in this thread was invaluable, if only because I think you might be an even grumpier curmudgeon than myself, and I didn't think that possible! Now, how about we talk about that WOTSQ series a bit more? :P
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Wooly - I remember him hating the line "I don't think we're in the Realms anymore"... [snip]
Seravin - see the above response to Wooly. But that aside, you've been another of the stalwarts on this journey. There have been times where we've been in complete concurrence on some issues, and other times we have been like night and day in our disagreement. But through it all you've been a lot of fun to banter with. You've always kept it light-hearted and friendly, even in those times where I might start to get a little prickly. You're just a good dude with an obvious love for the bygone days of Grey Box Realms Glory, and it was a ton of fun having you along for the ride.
quote:
Originally posted by Veylandemar
We could meet that anniversary if you felt inclined to snag the four or five eBook-only releases!
I'm not sure how they fared against their paperbound competitors or if they were adopted by the community - I'm a tactile reader myself and really prefer the physical feel, texture and sometimes even the smell of books, but then, I'm weird like that.
I believe the ebooks in question are (at least according to Wikipedia!):
Cold Steel and Secrets, a four part series by Rosemary Jones
Prince of Ravens by Richard Baker
Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson
Also looking forward to reading your epilogue on the literary journey.
~V
Veylandamar, your post count was minimal but you had a handful of clutch catches and Wooly/Krashos type interjections of insight. I had Prince of Ravens on my to-read list, but thank you for reminding me of the others!
quote:
Originally posted by DenverJack
VikingLegion-
I found this thread just a few days ago, and have enjoyed reading through your take on all of the books. Lots of good memories - thanks for sticking with it!
Denver, thanks for the kind words. Better late than never and I'm happy this evoked good memories for you. And that goes to everyone else who has posted over the last 5 years but prior to ~mid March. It's been a fun ride and now I'm going to try to whip together some kind of "Best Of" post next. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Mar 2020 : 14:20:42
Sounds rather clumsy. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 24 Mar 2020 : 11:02:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Re the Mordenkainen cameo in “Death Masks”: this appeared on account of WotC editorial directive.
— George Krashos
I wondered why he was in there.
...Now I wonder why they wanted him there. Was it just an odd tie-in to the book they slapped Mordy's name on?
It was a tie in the the Ravenloft Storyline, during which the players encounter a feebleminded Mordenkainen.
They basically had some sort of weak tie in to all current adventures while the novel line was still a thing.
That's why there was the otherwise out of place giant thing in Death Masks (I think it was death masks) to reming everyone that Storm King's Thunder is currenlty happening somewhere else in the Realms and some lines between the drow in the Drizzt novels about the dragons wanting to summong Tiamat to Toril to do the same for the two dragon related modules |
| VikingLegion |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 13:02:22
quote:
Originally posted by Veylandemar
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
How come I can't see Viking's Reply? :(
It links to an edited post from 2017 for me, way back to his review of Elminster in Hell.
Shows that it was edited with a time stamp matching the latest post prior to your own when I was trying to find it last night. Clearly chronomancy is afoot!
-V
Yeah I decided I was going to read the entire 40 page thread before posting a summation reply. Some funny things happened on the earlier pages where sentences would just cut off in mid thought. I was wondering what was going on, so I hit "Edit" on the post, all the original text came back, so then I hit Save to complete it. Nothing has been altered, I think it was just a display issue. All the missing text comes back after Edit/Save, as though it just needed a refresh.
Currently on page 16/40 :)
*EDIT*
I'm now on 24/40 and I've seen the same thing happen a few more times. But again they were "fixed" in the same manner. Weird. |
| DenverJack |
Posted - 22 Mar 2020 : 18:31:37
VikingLegion-
I found this thread just a few days ago, and have enjoyed reading through your take on all of the books. Lots of good memories - thanks for sticking with it! |
| Veylandemar |
Posted - 21 Mar 2020 : 02:58:14
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
How come I can't see Viking's Reply? :(
It links to an edited post from 2017 for me, way back to his review of Elminster in Hell.
Shows that it was edited with a time stamp matching the latest post prior to your own when I was trying to find it last night. Clearly chronomancy is afoot!
-V |
| Seravin |
Posted - 20 Mar 2020 : 19:51:32
How come I can't see Viking's Reply? :( |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 15:20:13
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Wooly - I remember him hating the line "I don't think we're in the Realms anymore" when the group ends up in the prison plane at the end of Azure Bonds; it was too much of a riff on I don't think we're in Kansas anymore. I know there were donkey/ass jokes in The Wyvern's Spur. Song of Saurials didn't have much jokes (although Alias beating on her sister clone was to me, hilarious). Maybe it's just the tone of the books are too light and not dark/gritty enough for his tastes? Will let Viking answer, but I don't remember much specifics beyond the Wizard of Oz reference.
Grubb/Novak > all for me!
Yeah, the Oz thing did catch me -- though, at the same time, it was obvious that they were no longer in the Realms.
The donkey/little ass thing didn't strike me so much as an attempt at humor, but more of a way for the divine augury to be both very specific and quite vague. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 14:56:26
Wooly - I remember him hating the line "I don't think we're in the Realms anymore" when the group ends up in the prison plane at the end of Azure Bonds; it was too much of a riff on I don't think we're in Kansas anymore. I know there were donkey/ass jokes in The Wyvern's Spur. Song of Saurials didn't have much jokes (although Alias beating on her sister clone was to me, hilarious). Maybe it's just the tone of the books are too light and not dark/gritty enough for his tastes? Will let Viking answer, but I don't remember much specifics beyond the Wizard of Oz reference.
Grubb/Novak > all for me!
|
| Veylandemar |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 14:44:47
[/quote]
May 24th, 2015 - just a couple months shy of the 5-year anniversary of this thread. It's been quite a voyage!
[/quote]
We could meet that anniversary if you felt inclined to snag the four or five eBook-only releases!
I'm not sure how they fared against their paperbound competitors or if they were adopted by the community - I'm a tactile reader myself and really prefer the physical feel, texture and sometimes even the smell of books, but then, I'm weird like that.
I believe the ebooks in question are (at least according to Wikipedia!):
Cold Steel and Secrets, a four part series by Rosemary Jones
Prince of Ravens by Richard Baker
Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson
Also looking forward to reading your epilogue on the literary journey.
~V |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 14:27:07
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Viking - all this talk of devils/demons etc from Brimstone Angels, did you ever read Lord Toede by Jeff Grubb? Set in Dragonlance sort of, it is a crazy book that has a large connection to the Abyss and reads more like Planescape than Dragonlance.
Seravin, yes I did read that book. Before this FR project started 5 years ago I did a similar, complete read through of all (166?) Dragonlance novels. Unfortunately I can't remember one single detail of that particular book. Being a Jeff Grubb offering, I flushed it out of my head before closing the final page :P
I just don't get how anyone could dislike Grubb/Novak's books, they're so good for the genre of D&D novels! But it's all subjective and everyone has their own tastes. I know I get hung up on plot holes and contrivance way more than I should which keeps me from enjoying some popular books, so I can't judge you not liking the more popular authors either.
Looking forward to the summation.
It's 100% the terrible humor. Grubb has great ideas and is a terrific designer. It's the groan-worthy puns and super obvious, low-hanging-fruit, lame jokes that weigh his works down, they would otherwise be very good. I don't know how you guys can read them without being distracted constantly. I literally have to put the book down every few pages just to roll my eyes at the ceiling, sigh in frustration, shake my head, etc. I just can't stay immersed while he so flagrantly goofs off.
I'm re-reading the Finder's Stone books right now, partially because of this post... And I have to ask, what lame jokes? I'm up to Song of the Saurials now, and I'm not seeing the puns or jokes. There's a riff on Clyde Caldwell, but that's the only thing that I can immediately think of. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 15 Mar 2020 : 06:29:27
Magnificent effort. And very insightful and useful. Kudos on your dedication.
-- Georg Krashos |
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