| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 17:41:13
Just finished reading it last night. It was decent enough, though the title is a bit misleading. Bruneor didn't even return to Mithril Hall until the very end. There is the usual bucketful of battle scenes, and Jarlaxle was a delight, as usual. I wished Valas had been in it. The dynamics that are developing between Gromph and Kimmuriel are interesting. I would like to see more of that.
The dealing with Pwent was brief and a bit anticlimatic, but oh well. This novel was not the greatest, but it wasn't the worse, either. Things just felt a bit...loose. It felt all over the place, to me. I thought I would have more to say about it, but I don't really. My opinion hasn't really changed since my review of the last Drizzt novel. I'm thrilled the Companions are back in action, and Drizzt is his old self, but...the novels still lack the Realms "feel" to me. I will not get into that argument again however. It was decent as a story in and of itself, but I felt the plot was loose.
Oh, and PS...return of the Bouldershoulder brothers? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BenN |
Posted - 21 Jan 2015 : 02:06:41
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
In my opinion Dahlia is Salvatore's most inspired character to date. She is emotionally damaged in such a remarkable way you catch yourself wondering if her death wouldn't be the best thing for her. I'm wondering which way Salvatore will go in regard to recent developments with her.
I totally agree with this. She's a tragic, flawed character. I really like the way her relationship with Entreri was developing; much, much more interesting than Drizzt's relationship with her, and his relationship with Cat. Entreri comes across as much more empathetic than Drizzt IMHO.
I'm also interested in what will happen with Doum'wielle (To'sun's daughter). Her story arc looks like it has the potential to be pretty tragic too. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 21 Jan 2015 : 01:30:24
I tend to like damaged characters, characters that have had traumatic pasts. A lot of my characters are like that. But I do not like Dahlia, and I did not like what she brought to the story. I felt sorry for her at times, and what happened to her as a child was horrible, but it doesn't make me like her. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 16:19:50
Drizzt can't die - WotC couldn't make any money off him if he did. The other companions came back only because WotC pushed a decision that Salvatore didn't make on him and he was contractually obliged to run with it.
Sometimes the bad guys win. If Obould I hadn't been dealt with peacefully, I honestly believe that it would have been the end of Mithral Hall. Now it turns out that everyone believes the peace was actually a bad thing. What do we take from that?
In my opinion Dahlia is Salvatore's most inspired character to date. She is emotionally damaged in such a remarkable way you catch yourself wondering if her death wouldn't be the best thing for her. I'm wondering which way Salvatore will go in regard to recent developments with her. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 15:34:31
quote:
Originally posted by Inaubryn
I think this particular scene/event in this book is a microcosm of many of the novels. What I mean by that is most of the "villains" or characters who are supposed to be utterly badass wind up being utterly inept when it comes to battling the "heroes" (favored characters).
The Shadovars and Larloch come to mind. And, if the "villain" isn't utterly incompetent then they find themselves up against divine intervention from the god(s) of the "heroes". In the instances in which favored characters face off against one another, it always ends in a draw.
If a favored character does somehow manage to die, they are usually brought back to life. Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, villainy in Faerun is futile. You can't win. There are no conceivable ways to actually defeat the "heroes" and definitely no way to permanently kill them. No scheme, no matter how well orchestrated, no matter how long the planning, no matter how large the army, or how powerful the adversary, is ever good enough to win against favored characters. [...]
At the risk of droning on, I'll end this. But, am I being too harsh in my criticism of FR novels here?
Now, here, I tend to agree with you. Villains get nerfed to ensure the heroes get to shine. That's not necessarily a criticism, so much as a very good observation.
Perhaps WOTC still aims to avoid the unearned reputation that D&D had early on for wantonly glorifying all sorts of devils and demons and evil deeds? |
| BEAST |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 15:23:45
quote:
Originally posted by Inaubryn
Maybe I view Bond and similar stories in a better light because while the hero may not lose, they lose something (a spouse, a child, a friend, a way of life, etc.)and through this loss, they are changed. I just don't feel this happens in many FR novels (at least the ones I've read).
At the risk of droning on, I'll end this. But, am I being too harsh in my criticism of FR novels here?
Methinks you're overlooking a lot, here.
Drizzt lost both his innocence and his father (and best friend) in Menzoberranzan (Homeland).
He went from a fun-loving child to an untrusting lone wolf. This led to him cutting himself off from all civilization in ten years of self-imposed Exile.
When he finally reemerged from that unsatisfying near-solitary existence, desperate for some sort of speaking comrades, he learned that his past still haunted him and cursed those around him (Exile). So he fled from the Underdark to the World Above.
But his occasional interactions with others on the surface were all, ultimately, tragic (Sojourn).
So Drizzt had a helluvalotta baggage when he met the other Companions. Even as he met them and befriended them, he still lived alone on the other side of the mountain from them (The Crystal Shard). Why actually get close to anyone? Why let them be important to you? Why let them matter enough to you that their absence might cause you more pain?
Even as the young human woman Catti-brie began to develop feelings for him, he remained completely clueless that he could form such a bond with anyone (The Halfling's Gem). This lead to her becoming engaged to another man, Wulfgar, instead (The Halfling's Gem), The Legacy).
Even after belatedly moving in with the rest of the Companions within Mithral Hall, he rued ever having settled down, and feared that his past would continue to haunt him (The Legacy). It did (The Legacy, Starless Night, Siege of Darkness).
His protegé Wulfgar was abducted by a yochlol and presumed dead (The Legacy), but was actually tortured by a balor for six years (Siege of Darkness, Passage to Dawn, The Silent Blade). The traumatized, returned Wulfgar was never the same, essentially becoming walking wounded for the rest of his life ("Paths of Darkness", "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy", "Transitions", "To Legend He Goes").
Of course, Drizzt lost his best buddies Catti-brie, Regis, Bruenor, and Guenhwyvar, too (The Ghost King, Gauntlgrym).
While the Companions were absent from the Material Plane, Drizzt dallied around with substitute companions ("The Neverwinter Saga"). His tarted-up psycho girlfriend drugged him with her sex (Neverwinter, Charon's Claw), and then turned around and bashed his brains in when he refused to cease grieving for Catti-brie (The Last Threshold).
The fact that his true Companions eventually returned (The Companions) does not negate the pain of having lost them in the first place. If a surgeon reattaches one of your limbs, that does not undo the shock and pain of having felt that limb ripped off of your body to begin with.
I suppose if one were to only look at the novels as black text on white pages, as a collection of mere dry facts, then one could tabulate stuff and come to the conclusion that the heroes always come out ahead, with no ultimate loss. I guess.
But if one pays attention, and tries to show even the slightest bit of empathy with the characters, then one should be able to see that the heart and mind of these characters are deeply affected by what they have been through. The benefits of magic can undo some of the events, but they seldomly wipe memories of all past hurts and woes. The characters drag that stuff around with them for the rest of their days, unable to ever be completely free of it.
And that's real loss, in my book. |
| BenN |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 06:27:40
quote:
Originally posted by Inaubryn
I think this particular scene/event in this book is a microcosm of many of the novels. What I mean by that is most of the "villains" or characters who are supposed to be utterly badass wind up being utterly inept when it comes to battling the "heroes" (favored characters).
The Shadovars and Larloch come to mind. And, if the "villain" isn't utterly incompetent then they find themselves up against divine intervention from the god(s) of the "heroes". In the instances in which favored characters face off against one another, it always ends in a draw.
If a favored character does somehow manage to die, they are usually brought back to life. Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, villainy in Faerun is futile. You can't win. There are no conceivable ways to actually defeat the "heroes" and definitely no way to permanently kill them. No scheme, no matter how well orchestrated, no matter how long the planning, no matter how large the army, or how powerful the adversary, is ever good enough to win against favored characters. They are soundly defeated with not much loss to the favored character, not much change to the world and everything goes back to exactly how it was before.
Now, what I can't explain is why this is a negative to me as opposed to say a James Bond film. I mean, villains can't defeat Bond, right? Maybe I view Bond and similar stories in a better light because while the hero may not lose, they lose something (a spouse, a child, a friend, a way of life, etc.)and through this loss, they are changed. I just don't feel this happens in many FR novels (at least the ones I've read).
At the risk of droning on, I'll end this. But, am I being too harsh in my criticism of FR novels here?
I guess it's in keeping with a general policy of optimism (i.e. the good guys have to win). I agree to some extent that the Realms could do with some Game of Thrones-style bloodletting of favoured characters.
However, without getting too spoilery, I can think of quite a few examples of main characters losing friends/loved ones permanently (e.g. what happens to a couple of Drizzt's friends in The Orc King). And in The Herald, the good guys may win in the end, but not without loss (and for some of the 'good guys' the world is most definitely not the same again - when something v.large & heavy drops on them....) |
| Inaubryn |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 06:01:28
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Just like the archmage Knellict in Road of the Patriarch, Draygo wouldn't be allowed to cast a spell. The illithids would just read his mind, sense him about to cast again, and shatter his concentration.
Which I still think is ridiculous for such a high level wizard or warlock. The illithids should be free to try and fail at his personal wards while he blasts them to dust.
Maybe(but unlikely) Knellict got lazy living safely in the citadell with no foes that might challenge him any moment (a pretty lazy assassins guild then BTW).
But a shade warlock living in the shadowfell? Every rival worth noticing would be a magic user to be reckoned with, donning a set of personal wards should be as natural as putting on his trousers.
I think this particular scene/event in this book is a microcosm of many of the novels. What I mean by that is most of the "villains" or characters who are supposed to be utterly badass wind up being utterly inept when it comes to battling the "heroes" (favored characters).
The Shadovars and Larloch come to mind. And, if the "villain" isn't utterly incompetent then they find themselves up against divine intervention from the god(s) of the "heroes". In the instances in which favored characters face off against one another, it always ends in a draw.
If a favored character does somehow manage to die, they are usually brought back to life. Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, villainy in Faerun is futile. You can't win. There are no conceivable ways to actually defeat the "heroes" and definitely no way to permanently kill them. No scheme, no matter how well orchestrated, no matter how long the planning, no matter how large the army, or how powerful the adversary, is ever good enough to win against favored characters. They are soundly defeated with not much loss to the favored character, not much change to the world and everything goes back to exactly how it was before.
Now, what I can't explain is why this is a negative to me as opposed to say a James Bond film. I mean, villains can't defeat Bond, right? Maybe I view Bond and similar stories in a better light because while the hero may not lose, they lose something (a spouse, a child, a friend, a way of life, etc.)and through this loss, they are changed. I just don't feel this happens in many FR novels (at least the ones I've read).
At the risk of droning on, I'll end this. But, am I being too harsh in my criticism of FR novels here? |
| Chronthalas |
Posted - 06 Dec 2014 : 20:49:22
Someone get Wulfgar some armor, 80% of all healing in the party goes to him. |
| scererar |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 20:19:41
Just finished this book. I like it and the direction it is going. Kind of winced when Wulfgar was once again captured and tortured though. Glad it was short lived as that theme is old. I like that both Regis and Catti-Brie have new skill sets. Not sure about the whole matron mother thing with Dalia, but well see as things play out
|
| Eilserus |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 02:59:34
From my understanding, from one of his interviews, the dragons just happened to fit with the story and is the reason why he dovetailed that in. |
| Renin |
Posted - 08 Nov 2014 : 00:41:13
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
Still, a better title would have been Siege of Darkness II: Siege Darker. I enjoy Salvatore's writing quite a lot, but in this one I found myself saying one thing repeatedly while reading, "Get on with it!"
Nuts. That was going to be my comment. "I enjoyed this story better when it was called 'One Thousand Orcs.' And I liked that story better when it was called 'Siege of Darkness.'"
Nothing magical from these first two books. Watching the standard for the Tiamat adventure series getting product placed in here just made me groan too. |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 03 Nov 2014 : 00:27:29
Loving the return of the 'old' salvatore. I think that his joy in writing these new books shines through. The new Regis is still a bit hit and miss for me but he was much better in this book. Athrogates warning to the dwarves when he surrendered his weapons was the quote of the book for me lol. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 27 Oct 2014 : 19:09:45
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Just like the archmage Knellict in Road of the Patriarch, Draygo wouldn't be allowed to cast a spell. The illithids would just read his mind, sense him about to cast again, and shatter his concentration.
Which I still think is ridiculous for such a high level wizard or warlock. The illithids should be free to try and fail at his personal wards while he blasts them to dust.
Maybe(but unlikely) Knellict got lazy living safely in the citadell with no foes that might challenge him any moment (a pretty lazy assassins guild then BTW).
But a shade warlock living in the shadowfell? Every rival worth noticing would be a magic user to be reckoned with, donning a set of personal wards should be as natural as putting on his trousers. |
| jerrod |
Posted - 27 Oct 2014 : 03:21:33
Damned good book. This novel put me back on the Salvatore Band-wagon.bravo!! |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 20:55:31
quote:
Originally posted by rapunzel77
Remember that Bregan D Aerthe took Draygo by surprise which probably colored his response. Also, he knew that he was wrong to keep Drizzt and Guen captive. He was given a deal and decided that it was to his advantage to yield. It could be that the events in the Shadowfell will come back to haunt them. We don't know. Some things that look "easy" in one book turn out not to be down the road. You are right that there probably should have been more of a fight but they were ambushed and caught by surprised. What do you do when someone puts a tower in the middle of your house? Take their offer or fight till the death? Draygo is calculating and shrewd. He probably thought it best to take the deal. Of course he could have killed many, but to what end?
Draygo couldn't have killed anyone. Kimmuriel brought 2 illithids into Draygo's personal chambers who caught him off guard and mind blasted him. Just like the archmage Knellict in Road of the Patriarch, Draygo wouldn't be allowed to cast a spell. The illithids would just read his mind, sense him about to cast again, and shatter his concentration.
Also, there won't be any retribution for the attack. Netheril has been destroyed, and the remaining Shadovar have far more dangerous enemies than Jarlaxle to worry about. People like Draygo will spend their time trying to avoid Harpers, Zhents, Cyricists, Cormyreans, and others looking for revenge. |
| rapunzel77 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 19:30:55
Remember that Bregan D Aerthe took Draygo by surprise which probably colored his response. Also, he knew that he was wrong to keep Drizzt and Guen captive. He was given a deal and decided that it was to his advantage to yield. It could be that the events in the Shadowfell will come back to haunt them. We don't know. Some things that look "easy" in one book turn out not to be down the road. You are right that there probably should have been more of a fight but they were ambushed and caught by surprised. What do you do when someone puts a tower in the middle of your house? Take their offer or fight till the death? Draygo is calculating and shrewd. He probably thought it best to take the deal. Of course he could have killed many, but to what end? |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 19:23:43
quote:
Originally posted by rapunzel77
What would you liked to have had happen? Drizzt languishing in the Shadowfell?
Bregan D Aerthe casualties. Hard fighting to gain the courtyard and breach the house. Not just casually walking in and overpowering the guard before they really know what was even happening.
Draygo fighting back, slaying the two illithids and trading spells with Kimmuriel for a while before yielding. Showing why he is supposed to be a powerful netherese warlock. Not just Kimmuriel walking in "Hi. You guards are subdued and I have two illithids here which are really only for show as I could slay you any time anyway. But hey, why don't we pretend to negotiate as if you really had any choice whatsoever?"
At best still heavy fighting with no clear victor in sight when Kimmuriel and Draygo, bloodied both, announce their truth
Is there supposed any limit to what a kinetic barrier is supposed to be table to tank (many direct hits from heartseeker, a landslide, what comes next)? Probably one day he'll be whipped by Lolth herself and just stand their giggling while the kinetic barrier absorbes all.
At least I was pleased with Kimmuriel admiting his fear of Gromph. For a long time he was just presented as psionics being flat out superior to any wizard he encountered |
| rapunzel77 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 19:01:58
quote:
Also Bregan D'aerthe is too marysue to be interesting anymore. We get it, they're perfect and no operation ever fails. Yeah, they're good, but so are others. Would it be so hard to once in a while have the report to Jarlaxe and Kimmuriel say "Sorry, Sirs, we were unable to achieve the objective due to being beaten by [insert other badass organization here]"? Every single operation is always a complete success with no rivals ever being abe to hold a candle to them. Whether it's taking over a city or storming the estate of a high level shade warlock. Always a walk in the park for the only one competent organization on the whole of Toril. 
That isn't completely true. Their operation in Calimport had to be aborted due to Jarlaxle's craziness with the crystal shard and for a few decades, their operation in Luskan was also compromised until they regained some control. We are only given bits and pieces of their operations and not all of them have succeeded. They have had their defeats and triumphs, always skirting the edges and now there is the possibility they are in hot water with the matron mothers, especially baenre. Remember that they are primarily a mercantile band with mercenary tendencies. Bregan D Aerthe took a big gamble going after Draygo Quick. It was expensive and risky. If it wasn't for the fact that Draygo was very curious about the Sundering, etc they would not have succeeded. What would you liked to have had happen? Drizzt languishing in the Shadowfell? Getting killed? I know that many people on Candlekeep (I'm not saying you) would love nothing more than to see Drizzt and his friends die because he's been around too long and he is a good character/hero and to them that is too boring. They would prefer anti heroes and the undead, devoid of any conscience. Again, you aren't one of those who say that but I see that often, even asking RA Salvatore on his FB page to kill Drizzt off because they hate him. I don't understand the visceral hate for a good character. |
| rapunzel77 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 18:44:14
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
The only thing that grinds my gear is how the drow are again portrayed as the uberrace, superior to all and able to boss them around at will. I would love to see Tiago trying to intimidate another orc shaman only to find out the hard way he's the high priest of Gruumsh, as nasty and powerful as any matron mother. Come on, that's the biggest kingdom of orcs, where are their high level badasses?
Also did The Sentinel already happen? The fallout for the orcs should be immense. Gruumsh knowing that Luthic has been cuckolding him with Gruumbar? The orcs should be more concerned with the cataclysm within their pantheon than with what some drow try to bother them with. We're talking schisms and divine civil war here. Just imagine Luthic and Bagthru leading a revolt vs. Gruumsh and Ilneval, with Shargass trying to play both factions and and Yutrus watching impassively and ever silent from the sideline.
The events in Rise of the King take place around 1484-1485 possibly 1486. The events in the Sentinel take place in 1486 so that is a good point. Could the events going on in the orc pantheon help in the Silver Marches war? A breakup in the alliance between them, the drow, the frost giants, and the dragons? They all have ulterior motives and that could help in their defeat. I don't think they will stay united for long. I agree that the orcs should have their own badasses and perhaps we will see them. Actually Hartusk seems to have better control of his armies and I hope that Tiago gets his behind handed to him. Ugh, what a jerk. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 18:33:36
The one thing that really grinds my gear is how the drow are again portrayed as the uberrace, superior to all and able to boss them around at will. I would love to see Tiago trying to intimidate another orc shaman only to find out the hard way he's the high priest of Gruumsh, as nasty and powerful as any matron mother. Come on, that's the biggest kingdom of orcs, where are their high level badasses? 
Also Bregan D'aerthe is too marysue to be interesting anymore. We get it, they're perfect and no operation ever fails. Yeah, they're good, but so are others. Would it be so hard to once in a while have the report to Jarlaxe and Kimmuriel say "Sorry, Sirs, we were unable to achieve the objective due to being beaten by [insert other badass organization here]"? Every single operation is always a complete success with no rivals ever being abe to hold a candle to them. Whether it's taking over a city or storming the estate of a high level shade warlock. Always a walk in the park for the only one competent organization on the whole of Toril.
Also did The Sentinel already happen? The fallout for the orcs should be immense. Gruumsh knowing that Luthic has been cuckolding him with Gruumbar? The orcs should be more concerned with the cataclysm within their pantheon than with what some drow try to bother them with. We're talking schisms and divine civil war here. Just imagine Luthic and Bagthru leading a revolt vs. Gruumsh and Ilneval, with Shargass trying to play both factions and and Yutrus watching impassively and ever silent from the sideline.  |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 13:12:51
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
That is a very good point *nods* and yes, it is hard for me to explain what the "feel" of the Realms. Like, I know what it means in my head, but I can't explain it. But for me, RAS' novels don't have it. I still enjoy them.
Your viewpoint is still valid, even if you can't pinpoint exactly what you mean. I feel the same way about some of my favorite TV shows. Sometimes an episode is written that feels shoehorned in, and would fit better on another show. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 03:23:16
That is a very good point *nods* and yes, it is hard for me to explain what the "feel" of the Realms. Like, I know what it means in my head, but I can't explain it. But for me, RAS' novels don't have it. I still enjoy them. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 03:05:58
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
To me, his books just don't feel as Realmish. Yes he's been writing in the Realms for years, but it doesn't mean he captures the feel of Realms for me. It doesn't mean there aren't elements of the Realms in his novels or that I dislike them. I love Drizzt, I enjoy the stories, but I also find bis books lacking in the same Realmism feel. This is just my opinion and my personal experience from reading his books alongside other Realms novels. I would recommend them to someone who has read other FR novels, but to someone who is new to the Realms and hungry for Realmian knowledge, I would suggest something else. And I DID begin with the Drizzt books, and once I branched out, I learned more about the FR world.
People always disagree about the "Realms feel", but to me, that's what makes the Realms great. I wonder if people advocating for the Realms feel know exactly what they are asking for. I love that RAS, Evans, Kemp, Cunninghan, Ed, etc. all have a distinct voice. By having such different styles, they help the Realms appeal to a wide spectrum of readers. But also, they keep current readers engaged. I love RAS, but I need epic spell battles like Ed's sometimes. I need darkness like only Kemp can write. I like that Erin Evans can actually leave me dying to know how the love stories of 2 teenage girls end. I'm ranting now, but I'm not disagreeing with you. I just like the variety of the Realms. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 01:42:15
To me, his books just don't feel as Realmish. Yes he's been writing in the Realms for years, but it doesn't mean he captures the feel of Realms for me. It doesn't mean there aren't elements of the Realms in his novels or that I dislike them. I love Drizzt, I enjoy the stories, but I also find bis books lacking in the same Realmism feel. This is just my opinion and my personal experience from reading his books alongside other Realms novels. I would recommend them to someone who has read other FR novels, but to someone who is new to the Realms and hungry for Realmian knowledge, I would suggest something else. And I DID begin with the Drizzt books, and once I branched out, I learned more about the FR world. |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 22 Oct 2014 : 01:29:44
Like I mentioned in another scroll, I can't see how one could possibly say the RAS' books don't feel Realmsish. He's been writing books in the setting practically since it begun and is probably the most prolific writer of the setting.
I liked the book, but I found the earlier chapters to be boring.
And while I like the new Regis, I'm really disliking how he keeps thinking back to Donnola. We get it, he misses her. It doesn't need to be repeated throughout the book.
Catti-Brie performed her heel-turn. Looks like we won't be seeing Orc babies being slaughtered, and RAS conveniently avoids portraying any kind of peaceful orcs in Many-Arrows. The closest we got was the servant orcs in Saribel's tent.
Tos'un and Doum'wielle's situation continues to feel forced.
Loved seeing old characters from Heliobagalus again. Grompth and Kimmuriel's interactions were also pretty interesting.
Though I complain a lot I do look forward tot he next book. |
| ZeshinX |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 14:11:19
I found it an enjoyable read. It was good, though not great. Some interesting goings on and a few nuggets of lore for Silver Marches/northern Sword Coast (more than any other 5e era product, at least in my estimation).
Still, a better title would have been Siege of Darkness II: Siege Darker. I enjoy Salvatore's writing quite a lot, but in this one I found myself saying one thing repeatedly while reading, "Get on with it!" |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 18:26:33
I have a shot in the dark at why Kimmuriel might be angry about his house's destruction. Matron Oblodra had a real shot to take control of Menzoberranzan, and Lolth herself intervened to screw her over. His family's defeat might serve as a symbol to Kimmuriel that he will never become wealthy, influential, or powerful enough to escape the grasp of Lolth's minions.
To be honest, that's why I enjoy Lolth's followers being constantly at each other's throats. Clerics can be the ultimate deus ex machina characters, if not written carefully, because their god can just flood them with enough power to accomplish any task. If not for constantly battling each other, Lolth's priestesses would have no threats. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 17:59:54
quote:
Originally posted by rapunzel77
quote:
Originally posted by Squifurgie
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Another thing I noticed *spoilers* does Jarlaxle have hair now? When he sheds his disguise, it describes his hair as becoming white.
I get the feeling that both Gromph and Kimmuriel are going to make a move against Menzoberranzan. Possibly planning something together. I recall Gromph talking about K'Yorl Odran still being alive in the previous book. With Kimmuriel secretly keeping his anger bottled up, his mother coming back into the picture and hungry for vengeance, things could get really interesting.
Jarlaxle is going to be viewed as the freaking man by everyone when he shows up with the dragon sisters as allies. Lot's of build up in this book.
I do think that Gromph will make his move. For many books (there are also hints in Elaine Cunningham's books as well) we know that Gromph is very unhappy with the status quo in Menzoberranzan but he goes with it time and time again since it is rare that there is a good time to strike. Although Quenthal does have some insights/memories from Yvonnel, she still isn't Yvonnel and right now she's made a significant power grab that some matron mothers are very angry about. In addition, Gromph is witnessing drow men's further alienation since the matron mothers are enrolling more daughters in Sorcere than sons. He seems furious about that aspect. He is ambivalent about the war, his house, etc. So, I think he does have some plan up his sleeve. What is striking is Kimmuriel. I saw RA Salvatore's remark on reddit about Kimmuriel's true feelings. I wonder why he would be so angry about his house's loss? Typically, drow don't care about their families' fates except for what it does to their own station in life. Drizzt didn't care about House do'Urden's fall. So, why would Kimmuriel care? Is it just because he lost his station? Or is there something more here? I guess we will find out. I just found it odd he would still be so angry about Oblodra's demise. They weren't known for any filial affection and killed each other often. Again, that is typical drow. They don't as a rule have familial affection. So, what is his motive for being so angry?
Several things intrigued me about Kimmuriel in Rise of the King.
1) He thinks to himself how much he hates ever returning to Menzoberranzan. This seems odd to me, because all throughout the Sellswords trilogy, he's berating Jarlaxle for trying to build a network on the surface. Kimmuriel always hated the surface and was eager to return home in earlier books. I wonder what happened to change his mind so drastically.
2) Kimmuriel's contact with his mother shocked me (though I think it was the last book that actually mentioned this). I always assumed her to be dead, but then again I assumed Yvonnel to be dead also.
3) It was interesting to see Kimmuriel show fear of Gromph. Like most fans, I've long been curious to know exactly how powerful Kimmuriel is compared to other FR characters. We've never seen him in anything resembling a fight. He did punk Archmage Knellict, but he's only used his powers on unsuspecting opponents. I imagine that Gromph would kill him, but it's hard to be sure.
4) I'm very interested to see how much Kimmuriel aids Jarlaxle in fighting the establishment. He seems to have grown more agitated with Jarlaxle in each book, and I wonder how that ends. Jarlaxle would risk his personal safety to save Drizzt or Entreri, but Kimmuriel certainly would not.
5) I'm most intrigued to see if Kimmuriel encounters Grandmaster Kane again. Kimmuriel was very impressed with Methil's ability to exist in a higher plane (temporarily). Kimmuriel probably can't ascend the same way Grandmaster Kane did, because he's evil, but he would be fascinated to see that it was possible. |
| Squifurgie |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 17:39:33
I agree that Kimmuriel suddenly having strong feelings for his house's demise is a bit random. One thing to consider though is that Kimmuriel is known to be very difficult to read, he rarely shows any kind of emotion, if he was angry about something, you probably wouldn't be able to tell. As far as his actual reasons for being angry about his house's destruction? Maybe he feels he has no one that understands his psionic abilities. Up until Gromph recently training with Kimmuriel we have not heard of any other drow using psionics (correct me if I am wrong). With his family gone he doesn't really have anyone to train his psionics with. He may not care for his family but he may have viewed them as valuable tools as far as the growth of his powers go.
As far as Gromph making a move . . . I don't think he is going to strike at Quenthel and the Baenre's so to speak. I think he is looking more to make an escape from the class system in Menzoberranzan. If a golden opportunity presents itself then maybe he would actually strike. I think Gromph wants freedom to do as he pleases more than anything else. He doesn't seems very ambitious, he really just wants to be left to his studies. Jarlaxle would be the closest thing to an ally that Gromph has. Jarlaxle has removed himself from Menzoberranzan's class system to a large degree, perhaps a more permanent position in Bregan D'aerthe? I doubt he would work under anyone, he would be an equal partner if anything.
The revelation of more females than males in Sorcere strikes me as possible foreshadowing, Gromph and Kimmuriel seemed displeased with this news. Jarlaxle has mentioned that Drizzt is viewed by some males in Menzoberranzan as a symbol of sorts. Seems like a possible set-up for a revolution in the drow class structure.
The reintroduction of some past characters was great, Ivan Bouldershoulder, Grandmaster Kane etc . . .
There is a lot to speculate about, in that sense, "Rise Of The King" was great, it brought forth a ton of questions leading to some potential great stories in the future.
I have a question, the wizard that was with Ivan, I believe he was referred to as Red Mazzie. I got a feeling like there were some clues that he was supposed to be someone from the past and that I was missing the clues.
Anyone have any ideas as to who he might actually be? the only answer I came up with is Robillard though I really don't have much basis for saying that. Is he an entirely new character or is he supposed to be someone using the alias "Red Mazzie" ? |
| rapunzel77 |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 16:41:16
quote:
Originally posted by Squifurgie
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Another thing I noticed *spoilers* does Jarlaxle have hair now? When he sheds his disguise, it describes his hair as becoming white.
I get the feeling that both Gromph and Kimmuriel are going to make a move against Menzoberranzan. Possibly planning something together. I recall Gromph talking about K'Yorl Odran still being alive in the previous book. With Kimmuriel secretly keeping his anger bottled up, his mother coming back into the picture and hungry for vengeance, things could get really interesting.
Jarlaxle is going to be viewed as the freaking man by everyone when he shows up with the dragon sisters as allies. Lot's of build up in this book.
I do think that Gromph will make his move. For many books (there are also hints in Elaine Cunningham's books as well) we know that Gromph is very unhappy with the status quo in Menzoberranzan but he goes with it time and time again since it is rare that there is a good time to strike. Although Quenthal does have some insights/memories from Yvonnel, she still isn't Yvonnel and right now she's made a significant power grab that some matron mothers are very angry about. In addition, Gromph is witnessing drow men's further alienation since the matron mothers are enrolling more daughters in Sorcere than sons. He seems furious about that aspect. He is ambivalent about the war, his house, etc. So, I think he does have some plan up his sleeve. What is striking is Kimmuriel. I saw RA Salvatore's remark on reddit about Kimmuriel's true feelings. I wonder why he would be so angry about his house's loss? Typically, drow don't care about their families' fates except for what it does to their own station in life. Drizzt didn't care about House do'Urden's fall. So, why would Kimmuriel care? Is it just because he lost his station? Or is there something more here? I guess we will find out. I just found it odd he would still be so angry about Oblodra's demise. They weren't known for any filial affection and killed each other often. Again, that is typical drow. They don't as a rule have familial affection. So, what is his motive for being so angry? |
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