| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 09:23:45
WARNING! THE QUESTION BELOW CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS PERTAINING TO THE HERALD AND RISE OF THE KING NOVELS!!! READ NO FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED!!!
Ok I just finished reading ROTK and noticed that Lloth is mentioned trying to get somebor all of the domain over Magic. But yet in the ending of The Herald Mystra has returned. So my question is thus....Does The Herald take place after ROTK? If so it kinda spoils RAS next novel (Partly, Lloth fails to aquire Magic's domain) |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Irennan |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 03:05:37
It involved both her and her followers, in a mass effort, and even brought somewhat more influence to drow wizards.
Lolth's psyche has already been widely explored, and she doesn't seem to take very calculated risks (to me, at least). The whole silence was a very stupid move IMO, esepcially if we consider how much the survival of lolthite drow society and the ''loyalty'' of her followers depends on brainwashing and constant fear of her direct (or through proxy) intervention. Menzoberranzan would have fallen if she hadn't come back at the last moment, right in time to save it (i.e., plot armor), other drow cities fell (Maerymidra, Ched Nasad for example), she lost follwers, her children gained influence and so on. Idk why she all of sudden became a greater deity after doing nothing but shifting her plane out of the Abyss, but yeah that silence was totally a non calculated risk...
It worked because of the whole plan to remove the Drow pantheon on WotC's side, and even then, all she did literally was saying ''yo daughter, lets play chess deathmatch over the lives of our people'', and then the other deities defeated themselves -and not because she tricked them into doing so-. What would have she done if her children allied against her or refused the match and went on with their plan, with their new increased influence (-as it would have been way more in character, especially for Eilistraee-)? In short, Lolth's plan relied on her enemies making obviously stupid moves. Not much of a calculation there.
Also it wasn't my intention to say that the new RAS books are less interesting because we already know the outcome, but simply to point out that the info have been out there for 2 years now. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 02:24:39
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I think that Lolth's defeat at the hands of adventurers+Mystra happens after all the mess in Luruar (that's why I said that the spoilers have been out there for 2 years now).
Trying again immediately after having lost a lot of resources in a failed mass project is rather unrealistic IMO, and -quite frankly- stupid, even beyond the chaotic ''pants-on-head'' stupid attitude that lolthites usually have.
Does Lolth's attempt to hijack the Weave directly involve her followers? Or does it all take place with the gods on higher planes? The drow could theoretically take a major defeat on the Planar, without interfering with Lolth's dream of stepping in on Mystra's old territory. She could make the gamble and attempt to strike while she thought she still had the chance. Even though we've got spoilers as to the final outcome, I think it could still make an interesting illustration of her psyche, if she were shown to be such a calculated risk-taker. It could be made interesting. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 00:52:33
quote:
Originally posted by BenN
I'm not sure that there's no possibility of rebuiding Sundabar & Nesme. From the novel, it sounds like these places are semi-intact; they can always be re-populated, the ruins built-up again, etc.
I surely hope so, but the data given some posts above don't seem to leave much room for that, as both populations were decimated (66% for Sundabar, or even more, depending on what happens to the refugees, and 90% for Nesmé. How do you re-populate that?). It really sounds bad, but yeah, lets wait for the ending of this series before jumping to results. |
| BenN |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 00:41:42
I'm not sure that there's no possibility of rebuiding Sundabar & Nesme. From the novel, it sounds like these places are semi-intact; they can always be re-populated, the ruins built-up again, etc.
A couple of things that are not mentioned so much in RotK: what is happening in the Moonwood and in Silverymoon. You'd think that the former would be first on the hit-list of both orcs and drow, and also probably the easiest to attack, compared to the dwarven strongholds anyway. But we don't hear much at all about it. The novel mentions that Silverymoon is under heavy seige, but there's not much detail, and almost no description.
I guess RAS is saving these for the next novel, but in terms of following the timeline it seems a bit strange. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 07 Oct 2014 : 00:12:17
The drow will likely be defeated, maybe even crushed, but that's not the core of the issue (and is something to be expected, even more so if we consider the spoilers out there).
It sucks and is tiresome to see yet more locales and cities destroyed and their inahbitants butchered (thus removing the chance of rebuilding) just to make room to this story, especially considering that WotC has just said that they would stop blowing the setting. It makes their word sound not trustworthy at all (unless, as I said, people survived. However the situation looks dire...). |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 23:57:42
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I haven't read the book, but the this timeline (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19630) places the fall of Sundabar during 1484 DR.
I guess that the situation in Luruar will be back to normal after Drizzt and whoever else manage to fix everything (unless the inhabitants of Sundabar and Nesmé were exterminated. In that case, WTF?).
quote:
Also, is there anything that says that even though Lolth gets the smackdown once, she won't try it again? Since she's the maniacal goddess of chaos, she could be like a cockroach and just keep coming back for more and more and more...
I think that Lolth's defeat at the hands of adventurers+Mystra happens after all the mess in Luruar (that's why I said that the spoilers have been out there for 2 years now).
Trying again immediately after having lost a lot of resources in a failed mass project is rather unrealistic IMO, and -quite frankly- stupid, even beyond the chaotic ''pants-on-head'' stupid attitude that lolthites usually have.
I started to disagree, but you're 100% right, and here's why. The drow and dwarves have always hated each other, but the drow have pushed too far this time. Mirabar and Sundabar will probably be wiped out, and Mithral Hall is beseiged once more. The drow might succeed in keeping their hands clean, if Quenthel had not ordered them to conquer in the name of House Do'Urden (to turn everyone against Drizzt). So here we have the drow teaming up with the orcs, who are likely the only race dwarves hate more than drow, to exterminate the dwarves.
To add injury to insult, the drow claimed Gauntlgrym as their own. Not only are they trying to exterminate the dwarves, but they have defiled what is essentially the dwarf holy land. Once the dwarves learn that their greatest king has been reincarnated, they are going to rally around him and spank the drow. It won't be enough to drive them from Gauntlgrym. Bruenor already has deep regrets about agreeing to a truce with the orcs. He's not going to stop until the drow and the orcs are wiped out.
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| Irennan |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 21:06:59
I guess Sundabar can be rebuit then. Nesmé looks like gone for good, tho  |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 21:03:40
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
(unless the inhabitants of Sundabar and Nesmé were exterminated. In that case, WTF?).
Well, in Sundabar only 10,000 out of 30,000 citizens escape the fallen city. And not all of them will survive the track to safety either. On the "bright side" it's unclear how many of the missing 20,000 are not dead but just left trapped in the city with the victorios orcs (however the orcs will certainly kill a lot of those left behind)
In Nesme only 600 out of ~3000 citizens are alive after the orcs take the city, and the drow order half of the survivors to be killed and only the 300 strongest to be kept as slaves. 90% decimation right there  |
| Irennan |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 20:14:21
I haven't read the book, but the this timeline (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19630) places the fall of Sundabar during 1484 DR.
I guess that the situation in Luruar will be back to normal after Drizzt and whoever else manage to fix everything (unless the inhabitants of Sundabar and Nesmé were exterminated. In that case, WTF?).
quote:
Also, is there anything that says that even though Lolth gets the smackdown once, she won't try it again? Since she's the maniacal goddess of chaos, she could be like a cockroach and just keep coming back for more and more and more...
I think that Lolth's defeat at the hands of adventurers+Mystra happens after all the mess in Luruar (that's why I said that the spoilers have been out there for 2 years now).
Trying again immediately after having lost a lot of resources in a failed mass project is rather unrealistic IMO, and -quite frankly- stupid, even beyond the chaotic ''pants-on-head'' stupid attitude that lolthites usually have. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 06 Oct 2014 : 19:55:11
1486 was mentioned in the book and IIRC as the current year. Was a short sentence during the last part, the drow assure the orc warlord that Sundabar will have fallen before 1486 is over (IIRC)
And since Sundarbar really falls a short time later (funny how they want to avoid sweeping changes and then proceed to wipe our Sundabar and Nesme) |
| BEAST |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 00:17:08
I don't have the book yet. But what do the time clues in ROTK actually say? Ed's books always include the specific year setting. Bob's stories have gotten pretty good about including them in the last 8 years or so.
In The Companions, the group decides to take the plunge in the year 1463 DR. In Night of the Hunter, Wulfgar says that it has been 21 years since that decision, which would make the present time the year 1484 DR (specifically the spring).
The game module Legacy of the Crystal Shard is officially set in late summer through early winter of 1485 DR. But it features a healthy Dain Stokely Silver Silverstream, who was apparently mortally injured in NOTH. This might mean that LOTCS would need to be moved back to 1483 DR. Alternatively, we might best interpret LOTCS as taking place later in the same year as NOTH (1484 DR). Or it might mean that Stokely actually survives that particular battle and all of the intervening novels and lives on to see the year 1485 DR, after all...
My understanding is that ROTK begins in the summer (Ch.1: "Summer of Discontent"). This could be either summer of 1484 DR, right after NOTH (my best guess); or summer of 1485 DR.
We really need the specific time clues within the novel in order to be able to pinpoint this any further. Does it refer to tendays, months, seasons, etc., beyond the "summer" language that I already mentioned?
Also, is there anything that says that even though Lolth gets the smackdown once, she won't try it again? Since she's the maniacal goddess of chaos, she could be like a cockroach and just keep coming back for more and more and more... |
| Irennan |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 12:01:38
The spoilers have been out for 2 years now. There was that organized play season in which the PCs stopped Lolth's plan with Mystra's aid (since she had already returned with the events in Elminster Enraged).
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| BenN |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 11:10:59
I would guess that they're on simultaneous timelines; Lolth sees an opportunity to grab Mystra's domain (as Mystra is absent), but even as she sets her plan in motion, Mystra comes back.
So theoretically speaking, its not a foregone conclusion, but I would be extremely surprised if Lolth 'won', and sent Mystra back to wherever she was lurking before. I have very little doubt that Lolth will get her ass handed to her (yet again), mostly thanks to the actions of everyone's 'favourite' drow ranger........ |
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