| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Herr Doktor |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 17:39:34
A player in my weekly D&D group used to work at a book shop (Walden Books outlet) and he happened to join the group while he was working there, which lead to his discovery of the Realms and purchasing many Realms novels. Which he has read far too many of and now he's a pile of books ripe for the lending.
So, I had him bring me a bundle. This time it is the Cleric Quintet and the three books that make up Shandril's Saga.
I haven't heard much about the Cleric Quintet, though I did read Servant of the Shard and it involved characters from the series.
Shandril's Saga, on the other hand, I have been afraid to touch. Every review I've seen is blasting this book, on EN World people we're calling Spellfire "the worst fantasy novel ever."
I'm looking for reviews, by the fans, of both series, in particular Shandril's Saga.
Thanks ahead for any help. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 08 Feb 2010 : 07:29:18
Scroll Necromancy!
I just started Spellfire, and I plan on reading this series to the conclusion. For good or ill, I might add.
While reading it, I really like it when Shandril beat the crud outta Shadowsil with a rock in the cavern. Thats just priceless! You have and Arch-mage getting her face pounded on by a teenage girl that should be cowering in fear. Priceless. I am getting the feeling the moral of the story is be careful of what you ask for. You might just get it and in spades.
I found this scroll due to searching the name Shadowsil. Entertaining read. Thanks scribes. |
| LaughingWizard |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 23:34:52
You're Welcome. I felt much better about the novels after I read Ed's explanation myself. I'd hope that he could do a rewrite, as you say! That'd be worth buying. Until Next. Wiz in the Northlands. |
| MrH |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 15:38:23
quote:
Originally posted by LaughingWizard
Well Met Mr. H,
I agree with everything you said. The resolution of the storyline was poor in "The Hand of Fire", and flew in the very face of Shandril's character. In a sense, us being upset with it is a compliment to Mr. Greenwood, since it means he did his job as a writer very well. You might be interested to read some of his thoughts on the whole matter. I enquired about it and received a reply from "The Hooded One". She apparently, is one of the original players in Ed's campaign and posted his comments on the matter. They can be found in a thread I began titled "The Hand of Fire" on the third page of the Forgotten Realms Novels thread. Hope you enjoy them. (I printed them and put them on my bookshelf next to Hand of Fire. If I ever get the sadistic urge to waste time reading that again, I'll need to reread them!Enjoy your stay! Wiz in the Northlands
Thanks for the info on the "Hand of Fire" thread. I like Mr. Greenwoods concept for a four book series a whole lot. Would've been a much better ending. Quick - somebody tell Ed to do a rewrite of the series! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 05:10:45
quote:
Originally posted by MrH
I enjoyed all three books in this series as well. I agree with your opinion of "Hand of Fire" - it was a bit repetitive. But I can live with that. The only problem I had with the series was the resolution of "Hand of Fire". I didn't see the need for Shandril to commit suicide at the end - it wasn't in keeping with her character. It didn't make since that she would assume Narm to be dead when she had healed him with spellfire on other occasions with similar results - it took a while to recover. Also - her response to Narm in the epilogue concerning a future lady was more than I could handle. I guess I'm just not real fond of unhappy endings. Aside from all that - I still liked the series.
*smiles* I, too, found the ending to be profoundly sad. However, at the same time I feel that Mr. Greenwood wrote the ending sensitively enough that I felt satisfied with it. It is true that Shandril healed Narm many times, but in the third book she seemed to be losing confidence in her powers, and even saw them as dangerous to the people she loved. I think the title, "Hand of Fire", refers to the burning print she left on that Harper mercenary's skin (don't remember his name) when she tried to heal him. When she thought she had killed Narm once and for all, it was just too much for her to take.
That's my opinion of it, anyway. |
| LaughingWizard |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 01:37:16
Well Met Mr. H,
I agree with everything you said. The resolution of the storyline was poor in "The Hand of Fire", and flew in the very face of Shandril's character. In a sense, us being upset with it is a compliment to Mr. Greenwood, since it means he did his job as a writer very well. You might be interested to read some of his thoughts on the whole matter. I enquired about it and received a reply from "The Hooded One". She apparently, is one of the original players in Ed's campaign and posted his comments on the matter. They can be found in a thread I began titled "The Hand of Fire" on the third page of the Forgotten Realms Novels thread. Hope you enjoy them. (I printed them and put them on my bookshelf next to Hand of Fire. If I ever get the sadistic urge to waste time reading that again, I'll need to reread them!Enjoy your stay! Wiz in the Northlands |
| MrH |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 16:09:33
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I think anyone who is a fan of the Realms should read all three of the Shandril Saga books, in spite of the editing troubles and so-so reviews. As for Spellfire, I loved it--it was a "can't put it down' book for me. Crown of Fire I didn't enjoy as much, but it still had a lot of memorable scenes in it. Hand of Fire was my least favorite of the three, and I felt it was rather repetitive; however, even that book had a lot of scenes in it that still stick in my mind today, like the part when those two bad wizards (I think they were wizards) were discussing whether or not Elminster, the Simbul, and Larloch really ever "show up" enough to worry about.
I enjoyed all three books in this series as well. I agree with your opinion of "Hand of Fire" - it was a bit repetitive. But I can live with that. The only problem I had with the series was the resolution of "Hand of Fire". I didn't see the need for Shandril to commit suicide at the end - it wasn't in keeping with her character. It didn't make since that she would assume Narm to be dead when she had healed him with spellfire on other occasions with similar results - it took a while to recover. Also - her response to Narm in the epilogue concerning a future lady was more than I could handle. I guess I'm just not real fond of unhappy endings. Aside from all that - I still liked the series. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 05:40:01
I think anyone who is a fan of the Realms should read all three of the Shandril Saga books, in spite of the editing troubles and so-so reviews. As for Spellfire, I loved it--it was a "can't put it down' book for me. Crown of Fire I didn't enjoy as much, but it still had a lot of memorable scenes in it. Hand of Fire was my least favorite of the three, and I felt it was rather repetitive; however, even that book had a lot of scenes in it that still stick in my mind today, like the part when those two bad wizards (I think they were wizards) were discussing whether or not Elminster, the Simbul, and Larloch really ever "show up" enough to worry about. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 04:11:24
quote:
Originally posted by LaughingWizard
That makes me laugh...A Monty Python fan. "And the number of the counting shall be three!" I could really get to like this place!
Being a Monty Python fan seems to be a requirement for people who are into RPGs. Ditto for being a Weird Al Yankovic fan. |
| LaughingWizard |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 00:29:35
That makes me laugh...A Monty Python fan. "And the number of the counting shall be three!" I could really get to like this place! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 01:27:09
quote:
Originally posted by Lina
By the way... how many novels are in the Shandril saga? I remember reading the first two but it gets a bit hazy after that.
Five! (Three, sir!) Oh, three.
Spellfire, Crown of Fire, Hand of Fire |
| Lina |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 09:41:54
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Zelg of Cyric
geez how many posts is it going to take me to get a friggin star by my name?
Well met
Hmmmm, this is not the place to be asking such a question, Zelg of Cyric 
::whispers to Bookwyrm:: Aye, 'tis the nature of Cyricists, my dear Bookwyrm
SiriusBlack is indeed correct, 15 is the number. However, irrelevant posts will be removed, thus lowering your count 
I didn't know that you had that sort of power over us Alaundo. Is this why I only have a few hundred posts instead of a few thousand??
By the way... how many novels are in the Shandril saga? I remember reading the first two but it gets a bit hazy after that. |
| LaughingWizard |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 07:43:13
Warning SPOILER. Sorry, didn't post that with my first reply to the thread. I don't think I gave too much away though. Also, I meant no disrespect to Mr. Greenwood. I'm just wondering, really wondering, about this one. As an author, I see gaping holes in the plot and really silly actions by the characters that aren't backed up by previous actions. |
| LaughingWizard |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 07:34:44
Hello! and Well Met. For Herr Doktor...I just finished reading the Shandril Saga. I hadn't realized till very recently that the third book in the series had been published. My recommendation--don't bother with it. It ruins the storyline and is seemingly written just to please the folks at WotC in wrapping up a pre-Time of Troubles storyline. Definitely do read Spellfire and Crown of Fire though. Both allow the reader to experience the Realms as I think Mr. Greenwood would want us to.
An open question for all: Why was Hand of Fire written? As readers we invest alot of time and emotion into characters. The plot of Hand was (in Winterfox's words) ping pong, and everything we strove for, vicariously as Shandril of course, comes shattering apart in the end. I believe Ed (Greenwood) had a different resolution in mind considering the direction the first two novels took. Especially considering that Elminster tells Shandril that her second child would be a girl and also possess Spellfire. Tessaril gives her and Narm the option to stay in the Hidden House, so why didn't Ed take it from there and let us see Shandril and Narm and family sometime in the future? It would have made a much better feel-good story I think. Any thoughts anyone? |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 17:31:06
quote:
Originally posted by Zelg of Cyric
geez how many posts is it going to take me to get a friggin star by my name?
Well met
Hmmmm, this is not the place to be asking such a question, Zelg of Cyric
::whispers to Bookwyrm:: Aye, 'tis the nature of Cyricists, my dear Bookwyrm
SiriusBlack is indeed correct, 15 is the number. However, irrelevant posts will be removed, thus lowering your count |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 16:47:40
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Just remember, a scribe does not live by stars alone . . . .
So speaketh the person with several near his name. Such advice might be better received coming from another novice or new scribe. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 16:33:41
quote:
Originally posted by Zelg of Cyric
geez how many posts is it going to take me to get a friggin star by my name?
Trust a Cyric-worshiper to be concerned only with imagined power.
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm on the Congratulations scroll
Ah, the rank question. Yes. Here at Candlekeep, we recognize the seniority of scribes, basing this system solely on how much that scribe has published and contributed to study within these walls. This is easily shown by the number and color of stars on a scribe's desk, and by the title a scribe is granted to sign to his or her work.
Any scribe must have 15 scrolls to his or her credit to be accepted as a novice, at which the scribe is given a desk in one of the study halls. After 75 scrolls, a scribe may be promoted to full apprentice status and given greater access to resources within the library.
After some time at this level (typically once one has penned 350 scrolls), a scribe is fully recogized for his or her skills and given a private desk away from the main study halls. Of these learned scribes, some few are recognized for their accomplishments and given senior status; however, this is only awarded after at least 1,000 scrolls have been penned and shelved in the library.
The rank of master comes after twice as much effort, but by that time such ranks are more honorific than anything else; a way of keeping score, if you will.
However, one should always note that any writing done "off-duty," as it were, is not normally accepted as fullfilling one's duties as scribe. Thus, scribes in the taprooms at the Inn, or in the lounge where we welcome newcomers, are considered to have "punched out" and are working on their own time.
Just remember, a scribe does not live by stars alone . . . . |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 15:59:38
quote:
Originally posted by Zelg of Cyric
geez how many posts is it going to take me to get a friggin star by my name?
15 posts if I recall correctly will change your title from new scribe to novice scribe. At that point you get a star, no idea if a cookie is included as well. |
| Zelg of Cyric |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 13:56:30
geez how many posts is it going to take me to get a friggin star by my name? |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 13:50:00
quote:
It can't do you or me any actual physical harm You talk like the spellfire is leaping up out the book and drilling into your brain Let out a deep breathe let it go and be cool I'm sure it won't be the last book you'll don't like.
Do I? *shrugs* In my review (LJ community), perhaps, but that's mostly for amusement value for other members of the community.
quote:
Otherwise what else am I going to do when there is nothing good on tv? study? have a life? yeah.... right.
This is why I play computer games. *g* |
| Zelg of Cyric |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 13:42:56
Winterfox
I agree with you about Narm. He is my least favorite character right up there with Clacker. And overall the series was disappointing. But they can't all be winners. I thought Spellfire was generally a really good book. Especially if you are new to the realms. But even if I didn't thik that, it's just a book. It was written years ago. It can't do you or me any actual physical harm You talk like the spellfire is leaping up out the book and drilling into your brain Let out a deep breathe let it go and be cool I'm sure it won't be the last book you'll don't like.
Me, I don't even care how good the books are anymore. All I know is I have to read more and more like a junkie needs a fix. Otherwise what else am I going to do when there is nothing good on tv? study? have a life? yeah.... right. |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 13:16:00
Whee, thread resurrection.
I've once said to someone that the Shandril's Saga is like a game of ping-pong at stalemate. The events are extremely, extremely repetitive, and (I only read the first and second book; am not brave or masochistic enough to pick up the third) seem to lead nowhere at all. The Company of the Bright Spear gets wiped out (ping!), Shandril kills the dracolich (pong!), some people get hurt (ping!), Shandril kills the Shadowsil and another dracolich (pong!). Zhents come after her and hurt some more people (ping!), Shandril fries them all (pong!), ad nauseum. The thing with Narm getting hurt and healed again and again also grates on me, too.
I still can't get over the fact that Shandril has to run and be chased everywhere in Crown of Fire -- but can get an instantaneous teleport to City of the Ravens. Why not teleport her to Silverymoon in the first place?
quote:
He broke some classic rules inwriting novels in this genre, and I think he did it on purpose, not anger readers but to have an original story.
Being original for the sake of being original doesn't always work, though. |
| Zelg of Cyric |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 12:43:15
SPELLFIRE IS AN AWESOME NOVEL,
However the next to books made me say, "Oh, what happened?"
SPOILERS
I see many people complaining about the sheer power of spellfire. But that what makes the book so ironic. This girl was a frail villiage inn maid her whole life, she takes two steps out of the door and she is the most hunted person in Faerun with this fearsome power that she doesn't even know how to use and doesn't even want to have, but she has to use it because bad guys keep hounding her, and she fries them all and she tries to run away again but they hound her again and she fries them again. "This is Great!" At the end Shandril finds out that spellfire is her heritage, and you think is going to venture to far away lands with Narm and Delg beside her. This looks like the begining of a great series....
But then the next two books come out. The zhents never give up. I mean crown of fire starts off where spellfire left off. zhents chase, shandril burn everyone, narm dies, shandril brings him back, repeat 5 or 6 times until she dies, the end. Personally, I would have given the story a less repetitive plot and a happier ending, but I think Greenwood knew what he was doing. This was not a story about adventure. He made you think it might be, but it was more about adventure gone very very wrong. Maybe you can say that means the series went very very wrong, but I'm not saying that. He just threw us a curveball that's all. He broke some classic rules inwriting novels in this genre, and I think he did it on purpose, not anger readers but to have an original story.
"Crown of Fire" and "Hand of Fire" are not two of my favorite novels
But I have "Spellfire as one of my top five favorite in FR" that's out of about 45 or so that I've read. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 15:34:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
"First, thanks for being my mortality messenger!
Secondly, regarding locales in Cormyr, you're a very good guesser. Twice. :}
At this time, I dare not say more.
Except this: in my native province of Ontario, it seems I may be doing a tiny book tour for this novel. I had a blast writing it, and the first Knights of Myth Drannor tome is already under way."
You are most welcome for the mortality message that was delivered. Thank you again The Hooded One for being a swift messenger. I hope your Nikes aren't getting worn out.
As for guessing right twice, that's one definite sale now as the story already had me curious and now with Cormyr being even briefly mentioned....well...gotta show support to the Regent.
I'm sorry I'm not up north to catch Mr. Greenwood during his book tour. But, I couldn't even catch Elaine Cunningham when she was in my hometown as I had already moved away from the area. 
Good luck to Mr. Greenwood writing the first Knights of Myth Drannor tome. I know that work has been eagerly anticipated. I still have Hall of Heroes with the group's write up and illustration. A lively bunch. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 15:03:53
I conveyed your query unto Ed of the Greenwood, and his reply was thus:
"First, thanks for being my mortality messenger!
Secondly, regarding locales in Cormyr, you're a very good guesser. Twice. :}
At this time, I dare not say more.
Except this: in my native province of Ontario, it seems I may be doing a tiny book tour for this novel. I had a blast writing it, and the first Knights of Myth Drannor tome is already under way."
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 05:07:19
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
From what I've been able to weasel out of Ed about Elminster's Daughter, I think it will give us a glimpse of current affairs in Cormyr.
Did he mention a specific area readers might get a glimpse of? Arabel? Suzail?
Thanks again The Hooded One. You should call yourself Mercury with the wonderful messages you deliver so quickly.
|
| JamesLowder |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 20:42:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
He’s also a much better writer than anyone can tell who just reads his Realms fiction.
In support of this statement I will offer the fact that one of the short stories Ed wrote for me for one of the Eden zombie fiction anthologies landed on the honorable mention list for the prestigious Datlow & Windling Year's Best Fantasy and Horror. Ed can do a lot more than just write the Realms, and the things he writes outside the Realms are very different from his Realms work.
quote:
this wasn’t his fault in Spellfire, as Mr. Lowder has explained on the WotC boards and elsewhere
To give the quick summary of the original Spellfire fiasco--Ed was hired to write a book. What he was told at various times about the book's format and content, what he heard about said subject, and what the contract finally set in stone did not match up. There are arguments to this day about who told who what and when. (The lesson here being always get it in writing.) This confusion of expectations was aggravated by the fact that the editor who hired Ed to write the book was not the one in charge of TSR's Book Department when the manuscript came in. And the new editor would have requested a totally different book from the one Ed had written. But the book was on the schedule and had to come out at that time, so the book was made to fit the length required by the contract and other cuts reflected the new editor's desire to mold or eliminate certain aspects of the story. Whole subplots got cut. And since the TSR contract does not give the author any real editorial control, Ed had no control, at the end of the day, over what cuts got made; he had input, but not final say. (I wasn't the story editor on the project, though I did get assigned some proofing and copyediting late in the project, by which point all the major cuts and changes had been made by the story editor.)
Cheers,
James Lowder |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 15:34:23
From what I've been able to weasel out of Ed about Elminster's Daughter, I think it will give us a glimpse of current affairs in Cormyr.
I repeat: a glimpse. Not a deep look at the noble families or the state of the realm or anything like that.
And for the record, I loved Cormyr: A Novel too, and I know Ed loved writing with Jeff. He hated doing the whole thing in about a month, but who wouldn't? :}
His favourite bit was editor Bill Larson telling him on the phone: "This was much, much better than I'd been led to expect."
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 14:54:23
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Yes, as a matter of fact, I liked Cormyr: A Novel. A lot.
If I recall correctly, during the Mortality Radio interview, Ed Greenwood mentioned that one of the things untouched that he's longed to do, was to really look at all the noble families in Cormyr. I believe I've heard such comments from either him or others in the past and with the changes that have swept through Cormyr, the time would seem ripe to take a look.
I doubt though it will ever be done....to realms specific. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 07:15:49
Yes, it's my favorite of Mr. Greenwood's novels. |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 06:35:01
quote:
Originally posted by Simon Says
Heck, make her an amnesiac dragon stuck in human form - you'd have the interests of the Cult of the Dragon, as well as the iconic NPCs.
I would love to read that story! Ooooh, plotbunny.
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Simon Says
I truly look forward to his collaberation with Elaine Cunningham.
Indeed as, and I don't mean this as a slight at all, but the novels from Ed Greenwood that I've enjoyed the most, were collaberations rather than the ones he wrote stand alone.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I liked Cormyr: A Novel. A lot. |
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