| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sith_Lord_Drizzt |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 16:36:57
I just saw this on the Chapters.ca site and thought I'd share it. I'm really excited about reading this after I saw the description! 
From the Publisher
Drizzt joins Bruenor on his quest for the fabled dwarven kingdom of Gauntlgrym: ruins said to be rich with ancient treasure and arcane lore. But before they even get close, another drow and dwarf pair stumbles across it first: Jarlaxle and Athrogate. In their search for treasure and magic, Jarlaxle and Athrogate inadvertently set into motion a catastrophe that could spell disaster for the unsuspecting people of the city of Neverwinter—a catastrophe big enough to lure even the mercenary Jarlaxle into risking his own coin and skin to stop it. Unfortunately, the more they uncover about the secret of Gauntlgrym, the more it looks like they can’t stop it on their own. They’ll need help, and from the last people they ever thought to fight alongside again: Drizzt and Bruenor. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| G3nn |
Posted - 06 Nov 2010 : 19:37:03
Just finished reading Gauntlgrym and loved it... Second time in a row Salvatore almost brings tears to my eyes, the first one being the death of both Catti-brie and Regis... And now with Bruenor and Pwent!
I can't wait for the next one... |
| Alian LeLoss |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 14:07:16
Do anyone got Dahlia's stats? |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 05:37:48
Aye, a problem in the book to reader logic interface, but I'm sure that's another thread entirely. |
| Sandro |
Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 05:27:22
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
LOL The Orc King never made much sense to me period. 
I do believe that's a different issue entirely. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 04:30:20
LOL The Orc King never made much sense to me period. |
| Sandro |
Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 03:53:35
If you were to start anywhere, I'd personally suggest The Hunter's Blades trilogy, as it very much sets up the whole latter part of Drizzt's adventures, and the Transitions series (especially The Orc King) will make much less sense without having read through it. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 00:31:47
Thanks. I guess I could do that. I'll just post my queries here if I stumble upon things in the novel that confuse me. Be heading to the bookstore later. Again. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 00:11:32
Well... I would say that you could start with Gauntlgrym and if you wanted to and go back and look up the things you were interested in, that would be a viable option. The book isn't so narratively complicated as to require a start from way in the Dark elf trilogy. I'm sure some of the scribes here can tell you which books to look though if you do have questions regarding backstory.  |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 19:48:02
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Thanks, Lady Fellshot. Those two Shadovar are most probably Bob's own creations, as I can't recall any novel where they appeared or at the very least were mentioned in passing. (And I am the kind of Realms fan who reads almost everything about Shade).
The Shadovar are minor (apparently) characters, who exist mainly due to their connection with one of the an/protagonists. If I'm being honest, I would very much not suggest that you read this novel before having read the rest of the Legend of Drizzt: there's too much backstory involving Jarlaxle, Athrogate and others, let alone Bruenor and Drizzt himself to appreciate the novel fully without knowing it, especially the major occurrences at the end of the Transitions trilogy.
Just my two cents, of course.
So I should read The Transitions trilogy at least? That would be enough? Please don't tell me I have to read from Homeland onwards... |
| Sandro |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 19:15:19
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Thanks, Lady Fellshot. Those two Shadovar are most probably Bob's own creations, as I can't recall any novel where they appeared or at the very least were mentioned in passing. (And I am the kind of Realms fan who reads almost everything about Shade).
The Shadovar are minor (apparently) characters, who exist mainly due to their connection with one of the an/protagonists. If I'm being honest, I would very much not suggest that you read this novel before having read the rest of the Legend of Drizzt: there's too much backstory involving Jarlaxle, Athrogate and others, let alone Bruenor and Drizzt himself to appreciate the novel fully without knowing it, especially the major occurrences at the end of the Transitions trilogy.
Just my two cents, of course. |
| Merrith |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 19:00:45
The transition in character Drizzt is showing makes him much more interesting for me going forward, I was a huge fan of his for awhile but it got tired and old as the books dragged on...as you see more of his ties to Jarlaxle and how everything that has happened has affected him I feel like he's interesting again after this book.
The enclave they are looking for is Xinlenal, the first floating enclave which was made by Ioulaum. It tried to flee the Fall but obviously not far enough.
Szass Tam's role is more that of a driver of events from behind the scenes, although he has some brief face time and a few of the major players are involved with him.
The continued development of Jarlaxle and Athrogate are of great interest to me, as is Drizzt's "darker" outlook on life in general...coupled with the obviously confrontations coming up involving him, "Barrabus the Grey", and probably Dahlia. The tone is a little different from the last couple Drizzt books, and it's the best one in awhile for sure. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 18:04:19
Thanks, Lady Fellshot. Those two Shadovar are most probably Bob's own creations, as I can't recall any novel where they appeared or at the very least were mentioned in passing. (And I am the kind of Realms fan who reads almost everything about Shade). |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 17:20:27
The primordial is not named.
The main players from the Shadovar contingent are Alegni (shadow teifling) and Barrabus the grey (who bears a very, very strong resemblance to Entreri). And they are nominally looking for that fallen Enclave (can't remember the name) but it's a really minor part of the book.
SLD, as far as I could tell the only "significant part" Drizzt had was of face time that would have been better spent on Athrogate, jarlaxle and Bruenor (all of whom I like). And no, I don't consider myself "a fan." I might have managed to get myself kicked off the RAS forums for being a critic instead of "a fan."  |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 16:08:28
quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Ah that would give too much of the plot away:)...but the conflict involves a primordial...not the clearing of Neverwinter. Maybe next book in the trilogy. It does involve a dread ring as well.
Can you name the primordial? Is he or she one of the elemental lords, or one of the 'Seven Lost Gods'? |
| Sith_Lord_Drizzt |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 15:25:42
--"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
--"He fights with more...fury than I recall" -- Jarlaxle
I finally got a chance to read this and I loved it! A great story. I loved how Drizzt is now in a darker place. A great end to some of my favorite characters. Bruenor will forever be one of the greatest dwarves in the Forgotten Realms history. And we can't forget about Pwent. What a great ending for these two.
Lots of insight into Jarlaxle and even Athrogate. I'm liking how we get more and more information about them with each novel.
I'm still not sure how I feel about Dhalia. I'll reserve any judgement until the next few novels.
All in all I think Salvatore did a great job with this one. So full of action and plot! I'll post more comments later when I have some more time. |
| Ruul |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 15:15:29
Valas Hune is in the book for a few pages too. Reason enough right there to buy the book. =) |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:58:07
Ah that would give too much of the plot away:)...but the conflict involves a primordial...not the clearing of Neverwinter. Maybe next book in the trilogy. It does involve a dread ring as well.
Gromph is used to further the plot. Minor though. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:40:27
Thanks guys for the quick replies!
Here's more:
I love the Haunted Lands trilogy, and I like Richard's use of the Dread Rings. I've known through Sandro (in QfRLB, CoS section) that there's one built in the Sword Coast. Is it pivotal to the story?
What exactly is the conflict? Clearing Neverwinter of the Shadovar, who, if I'm not mistaken, came there to recover a fallen enclave? Who are these Shadovar? The princes themselves? Some archmages or fighter (or maids) who appeared ONLY in this book?
I kinda like Gromph, too. And I see he's in this novel as well. Is he important to the story? |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:26:54
Lady Fellshot: I couldn't agree more with him not being very active in the plot....but he does play a significant part. Enough for a fan to read wouldn't you say? Besides isn't a minion just an extension of of ones ideals?;) |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:23:35
Do you have a basic understanding as to who all the characters are? As in Drizzt and his friends? What gauntlgrym is as far as lore goes. If the answer to these two questions is yes. Then you shouldn't have a problem following the novel. And as you well know if you have any questions these threads are full of people who can answer them. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:20:55
No, he isn't a major part of this plot. one of his minions is. I rather thought that Szass hadn't had his morning cup of arsenic and herbal tea actually. :/
I don't know if you would like a "Drizzt" novel since Drizzt himself isn't super significant to the story either. Nor is Dhalia, despite the debate above. You'd have to wade through their parts to get to the main events as carried out by Jarlaxle, Athrogate and Bruenor. Their parts weren't bad at all. I'd hold off until it's in paperback though. |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:19:28
I'd like to think its a significant part. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Nov 2010 : 14:10:56
Hi, fellow scribes!
Incidentally, there's an 'oversupply' of this book in our bookstores. I heard Szass Tam, one of my favorite characters, makes an appearance here. Is he significant to the plot? Also, as I randomly read a few posts, I see that the Shades (another favorite) are also involved. Are they the princes of Shade or their lowly servitors? What's their role in the story?
I'm actually tempted to buy the book. If I do, will I be at a loss, considering that I NEVER read a Drizzt novel before? Not a single one. (I am not his fan. Never was.) |
| Merrith |
Posted - 02 Nov 2010 : 05:28:42
quote:
Originally posted by geok1ng
If barrabus is Entreri, then i would love to read :
Where is Charon's Claw and the jewelled dagger?
How did the netherese got hold of Entreri?
How come the Barrabus "killed" drows in Luskan and betrayed Bregan Daerthe?
There are a few gaps on the reasoning that Barrabus IS Entreri that must be filled,
I have a hard time watching Entreri become a slave again,and serving the Netherese is harder still...Entreri as we knowed would rather die.
Of course EVERYONE is ansious to read tales of Artemis Entreri life again. "Charming is a learned art= So is murder." But i refuse to believe that a simple young elf is Entreri's equal in swordplay...after 100 years i would expect him to become better, maybe better than Drizzt, whose spirit is broken, while Entreri's spirit got wiser.
But the Spellplague is a wonderful excuse to weaken and snare great Chars from previous era.
The location of Charron's Claw is revealed in the book. Not trying to blow spoilers but you pretty much already did, so the character in question's service to the Netherese is explained at least a little bit although exact details are not in this book. It wasn't exactly portrayed as Dahlia being his equal in fighting skill, essentially was said her unusual weapon posed an interesting challenge and especially with the loss of Charron's Claw and apparently his infamous dagger (no real explanation where this went) he was at a minor disadvantage compared to the past.
As far as I know he didn't kill any drow in Luskan either, he was down south when the supposed confrontation occurred. I'm sure more will be revealed in the next few books. |
| geok1ng |
Posted - 01 Nov 2010 : 21:26:02
If barrabus is Entreri, then i would love to read :
Where is Charon's Claw and the jewelled dagger?
How did the netherese got hold of Entreri?
How come the Barrabus "killed" drows in Luskan and betrayed Bregan Daerthe?
There are a few gaps on the reasoning that Barrabus IS Entreri that must be filled,
I have a hard time watching Entreri become a slave again,and serving the Netherese is harder still...Entreri as we knowed would rather die.
Of course EVERYONE is ansious to read tales of Artemis Entreri life again. "Charming is a learned art= So is murder." But i refuse to believe that a simple young elf is Entreri's equal in swordplay...after 100 years i would expect him to become better, maybe better than Drizzt, whose spirit is broken, while Entreri's spirit got wiser.
But the Spellplague is a wonderful excuse to weaken and snare great Chars from previous era. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 02:53:04
quote:
But this is fantasy, and heroic fantasy at that.
I should check logic at the door because of that? Fantasy means that everything, especially the characters, needs to help the reader buy into the fantasy. The story will not work unless the suspesion of disbelief is cultivated and fostered. I was once told that the more "high fantasy" a book is, the more real the characters must be. Dhalia does not read like a female character to me, let alone a "real" one in any way shape or form. Why should I suspend disbelief for a character with few relateble or logical qualities to them?
Besides, the only hero of any kind in Guantlgrym was Bruenor.
quote:
One sociological theory for the real life higher occurrence of violent crime in the US is an allegedly greater degree of cultural diversity in the big "melting pot". If there is any merit to that theory, then perhaps Toril--with its abundance of all sorts of other lifeforms never before seen on Earth, in addition to the kinds with which we are already familiar, plus the occasional RSE or two--suffers from ever greater preponderance of violent crime and psychoses than the US?
Even if you double the numbers, it's still going to be a very low low number... for the guys. I think that women are some ludicrously low percentage of an already ludicrously low percentage.
quote:
Or they may find a practical outlet for their rage, such as becoming hit men, getting paid to strike at assigned targets, honing their skills, in the hopes that some day they can decide upon their own targets.
Unlikely, since the outlooks are different. One kills because it is a job, they like some aspect of the job (money, infamy, stalking things, whatever) and they can control themselves to make the hit without tripping over a psychosis. A criminal organization is going to want someone who can stick to business and who doesn't indulge in risky side projects that they can't control.
A serial killer has very specific needs that they fulfill with victim. Also, the victim has to be someone of their choosing. They might seem completely normal otherwise.
quote:
quote:
(I will not wonder from whence the midwives came and where they disappeared to in the narrative, I'm tired of tripping over plotholes)
Well, since the elves were living in the forest, I would guess the elven midwives came from . . . the forest!
The Shadovar killed off the female elves of non-child-bearing age. But this does not mean that there weren't any midwives of child-bearing age who survived the culling. The shades left a lot of the females alive, and it sounds like some of them helped Dahlia with the delivery.
Dhalia should be dead then. I'm pretty sure 12 is too young for an elf to have started her menses. Then there's having babies at 12 has every likelihood of killing both mother and child (I'm assuming Algeni was thorough and killed all the clerics and healers). And then there's the black hole that the potential support group that those midwives represent, because for some reason characters having relationships with people who don't have an active part to play in the narrative would make that character more real.
quote:
It sounds to me a lot like the criminal and terrorist organizations who recruit from the poor, downtrodden, and imprisoned portions of the population. Get 'em when they're weak and mad at the world, and then mold 'em into whatever you want 'em to become.
I would think most criminal organiztions don't want people who can't control themselves, they want people who follow orders, do the job, don't feel bad about it later. Loose cannons are not good for business. Why would they mold someone into something unprofitable?
quote:
She struck back at Alegni for his rape, and she strikes back at her various lovers for their various transgressions. Those sound like reactions that are in the same family. So what's the supposedly different set of reactions that she is exhibiting?
Alegni assaulted her as a child, by surprise, and so he probably represents the ultimate monster to her. These other schmucks are people whom she met and nurtured relationships with. When they inevitably crossed her in some way, she was quite ready for it. And because she had spent time cultivating relationships with them, they did not intimidate her, as the tiefling had done with her when she was a child. She takes bolder moves with them because they are less prominent boogey-men in her mind. Familiarity breeds contempt, as they say.
This makes me think she is building up to a showdown with her rapist in the future.
Nope it still doesn't jive.
If Alegni is her ulitmate monster, he should be on her mind more often. And considering her past attempt of lashing out directly at him, she shouldn't care about who gets in the way of that. At the very least she should have some fantasy about standing over him before she kills him or something. Which is fine for an evil-ish character and would solve the "no motive" problem quite nicely. But this route seems to have been avoided and replaced by inconsistency.
The initial turnaround undermines that because it runs so counter to what was set down before. I've a tough time believing that those elven midwives I talked about earlier would have thought of Thay as a refuge or a tool to be used against the Shadovar. Myth Drannor, Agralond (if it's still around), Evereska, Silverymoon, even Rhymanthiin are all possibilities to retreat to, regroup and strike back at the Shadovar (Evereska, Sliverymoon and Myth Drannor especially).
In addition, it sounded to me more that she manufactured situations where she could claim that she had been wronged and then duel her bedmates (something Thayans might find amusing, I suppose), but then we only have Dor'crae's word and his death (which is something of an exception to pattern). We aren't shown any of Dhalia's relationship with Borlann (when she is presumably acting out as she had previously)
quote:
Perhaps Dahlia will realize/be shown the error of her ways and decide to go directly after Alegni in the future, and this will be posited as a heroic change-of-heart/redemption?
Which I wouldn't buy because the initial foundation for it is built on sand. A two line thought bubble in the beginning would have been good and all that I needed. "She ran because if she could not deal with the minion, she would not survive his master." There. I fixed it. It can go on page 200 right after she expresses relief at finding her devil worshiping minions.
BTW, is there something wrong with her being a legible bad guy with motives? Why should I want her redeemed in the first place?
Forget Drizzt killing her, he'd angst over it too much. Barabbus can do it instead. Or Jarlaxle. He seems to be able to slap anyone with a trout if he needs to. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 22:16:24
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
If she's going the Serial killer route of luring in and then killing her lovers, as boitoi Dor'crae's reactions would seem to bear out, then she is targeting them specifically and should not be slept with under any circumstances whatsoever because that's her pattern.
Well, I do not believe that anyone is advocating sleeping with a suspected serial killer!
quote:
I've never heard of anyone successfully curing a serial killer. Ever.
In real life, yeah.
But this is fantasy, and heroic fantasy at that.
I've never heard of drow, elf, or tiefling in real life, either, but that doesn't stop me from reading about them in books!
quote:
But the thing is that serial killing, while rare among males, is even rarer among females. I want to say that there's only been maybe 3 in the US in the past century, but I'd be guessing wildly.
Is there any reason why real life, US demographic norms for humans should be considered to also apply to non-humans in a non-US environment?
One sociological theory for the real life higher occurrence of violent crime in the US is an allegedly greater degree of cultural diversity in the big "melting pot". If there is any merit to that theory, then perhaps Toril--with its abundance of all sorts of other lifeforms never before seen on Earth, in addition to the kinds with which we are already familiar, plus the occasional RSE or two--suffers from ever greater preponderance of violent crime and psychoses than the US?
quote:
In any case, that is not statically what happens to girls who are raped by strangers (which these days is a smaller number than those raped by aquaintance or closer). One of the more usual reactions is to be distrustful and fearful of the opposite sex and avoid sexual encounters of any kind, even avoiding the possibility of sex in any way shape or form (because it was used against them as a weapon of fear). Alternatively, the focus would be very specific (fear and hatred against those who resemble their attacker).
What about serial killers who are shy by day, but who lash out at night? They may be fearful by default, holding it all in, bottling it up, but then release it uncontrollably.
Or they may find a practical outlet for their rage, such as becoming hit men, getting paid to strike at assigned targets, honing their skills, in the hopes that some day they can decide upon their own targets.
quote:
(I will not wonder from whence the midwives came and where they disappeared to in the narrative, I'm tired of tripping over plotholes)
Well, since the elves were living in the forest, I would guess the elven midwives came from . . . the forest!
The Shadovar killed off the female elves of non-child-bearing age. But this does not mean that there weren't any midwives of child-bearing age who survived the culling. The shades left a lot of the females alive, and it sounds like some of them helped Dahlia with the delivery.
quote:
Even her really flippant switcharoo early on would have made more sense if she were not a murdering seductress and instead someone who had become very good at weapons in order to keep everything and everyone at bay. An "I won't get hurt again because now I am strong" sort of thing.
I am not familiar with the established Thay lore. But it sounds like she became good at weaps precisely because the people who trained her wanted her to become a murdering seductress. It was all part of her training. She wasn't given a buffet-style curriculum, where she got to pick and choose!
She was ticked off royally as a result of the rape. The text says that the innocent little elf girl that she used to be died right there and then. Whenever she came across the Thayans, apparently she was ripe for manipulation and exploitation.
It sounds to me a lot like the criminal and terrorist organizations who recruit from the poor, downtrodden, and imprisoned portions of the population. Get 'em when they're weak and mad at the world, and then mold 'em into whatever you want 'em to become.
quote:
It seems more common for girls to get caught on the bad end of the attacker/victim cycle. We see this sort of victim behavior when Dhalia interacts with Sylora later on... which doesn't jive with someone who kills her lovers with alarming frequency in order to exert control over them.
I got the impression that her submission to Sylora was the result of punishment imposed by Szass Tam, rather than a willful act on her own part. She whacked her prior lovers with impunity, as far as Tam was concerned. He was happy to see her develop her erotic and martial skills, so. But Sylora is his right-hand woman, now, and unlike Dahlia, she did successfully entice Arthro to pull the switch in Gauntlgrym, so Tam is not so eager to let Dahlia try something with Sylora. It's entirely possible that Dahlia could successfully whack her supervisor, but then Tam could and probably would do the same right back to her.
quote:
It's more of a kneejerk reaction to certain stimuli, but it's usually the same series of unthinking reactions (or at least in the same family) unlike the two different sets that Dhalia exhibits for more or less the same stimuli.
She struck back at Alegni for his rape, and she strikes back at her various lovers for their various transgressions. Those sound like reactions that are in the same family. So what's the supposedly different set of reactions that she is exhibiting?
Alegni assaulted her as a child, by surprise, and so he probably represents the ultimate monster to her. These other schmucks are people whom she met and nurtured relationships with. When they inevitably crossed her in some way, she was quite ready for it. And because she had spent time cultivating relationships with them, they did not intimidate her, as the tiefling had done with her when she was a child. She takes bolder moves with them because they are less prominent boogey-men in her mind. Familiarity breeds contempt, as they say.
This makes me think she is building up to a showdown with her rapist in the future.
quote:
If this is the case, then why isn't it something on her mind from the few glimpses we've had of her thought processes. It seems like it would have been after the encounter with Barrabus.
I'm not a psychiatrist, so I can't say any of this definitively. But it sounds plausible that her fear of Alegni as a superior adversary might've led her to burying conscious thoughts of revenge against him, and to settling on less-capable enemies instead. Revenge-by-proxy is cowardly, but I'd be willing to bet that it also stands a greater chance of success than directly confronting a demonic nemesis.
Whom did she kill in the first place? It wasn't Alegni himself, but rather, his child. From the earliest days of her avenger phase, she has struck back at the wrong people. (The Elf Strikes Back... )
Cognitive dissonance, or uncomforable awareness of conflicting/contradictory internal attitudes/behaviors/etc., does not necessarily manifest itself as soon as the conflict begins. It may take time. Psychotherapy often deals with odd behavior that has arisen as a result of anxiety due to longterm repressed/suppressed inner conflicts.
Perhaps Dahlia will realize/be shown the error of her ways and decide to go directly after Alegni in the future, and this will be posited as a heroic change-of-heart/redemption?
quote:
I'd almost buy a revelation that Dhalia was schizophrenic because that's how scattered her thought processes and her reactions seems to be.
But she doesn't seem to be suffering a break from reality (schizophrenia). She seems to be making irrational decisions as to what to do about past trauma. She's got angst, but she hasn't seized upon the best thing to do about it. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 21:58:31
LOL Something along the lines of "O WOE, I COULD NOT TURN HER FROM HER WICKEDNESS!" Jornan? XD
|
| jornan |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 21:27:07
I think she will become a love interest of Drizzt's and her world view and values will begin to shift towards Drizzt's as Drizzt's shift towards her's....meeting somewhere in the grey area. But ultimately she will be compulsed for whatever reason to kill him as she has with all of her lovers (the scars of her childhood will prove too much to compete with) and they will have a final showdown.
Her betrayal may even push Drizzt even darker.... |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 20:12:17
Innovindal and others that might have been a replacement for Catti-Brie were killed off ttrue.....but that's because Cat was still alive at that time. Now that Cat is dead....might be a different story. |
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