| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sandstorm |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 17:15:37
I have spent the past few years working on a novel myself, that I intend on sometime soon submitting to Wizards of the Coast, but am sketchy on some of the new changes in the world of Fae'run, and whether I should be incorporating the Spell Plague etc into my work. I hear that Ed Greenwood visits these forums, and if so, I'd appreciate some advice/direction from either him or anyone else that has an input.
Mod edit: Found in the ethers and moved to an actual shelf.  |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ozzalum |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 00:11:05
Sandstorm,
I think you have to get a day job and then maintain a certain sense of irrational optimism while writing in your spare time. Even Ed has a day job. I did that and managed to get a book written. It will never be published and will only be read by a handful of people, but at least I did it.
The step from having written a bad novel to having a bad novel published is the trick but it's not worth giving too much thought too. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 23:20:35
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
[I'm not even close to an aspiring author but I did read the article in that link and I had a question (to anyone who can answer) just to satisfy my own curiosity. They (WotC) are asking for writing samples, and they also state they are not looking for novels, short stories, etc. So, as far as the writing samples, are they not looking for FR (or any other setting) specific samples? In other words, do they want a sample that has no clear connection to their IP? Like I said, I was just curious and wanted to be sure I was reading it correctly.
Yes, I can see how this could be a little confusing. The idea, as I understand it, is to make you you know that what you send will be read only as a writing SAMPLES. So if you send in 30 pp of your latest work, you do so understanding that THIS PARTICULAR STORY is not being considered for publication. They're looking for good writing, as well as and a style and sensibility that's a good fit for the setting.
It's like any other audition. Imagine there's an open call for a new musical. You don't know anything about that musical, other than a general idea of setting and style--let's say it's set in 1940s Chicago and focuses on Big Band music. You like this style and it fits your voice, so you come in ready to perform your best song, something that really shows what you can do. If you DO win a role, the songs you'll be singing onstage will NOT be the song you sang at your audition.
Thank you for the clarification. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 02:08:15
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
[I'm not even close to an aspiring author but I did read the article in that link and I had a question (to anyone who can answer) just to satisfy my own curiosity. They (WotC) are asking for writing samples, and they also state they are not looking for novels, short stories, etc. So, as far as the writing samples, are they not looking for FR (or any other setting) specific samples? In other words, do they want a sample that has no clear connection to their IP? Like I said, I was just curious and wanted to be sure I was reading it correctly.
Yes, I can see how this could be a little confusing. The idea, as I understand it, is to make sure you know that what you send will be read only as a writing SAMPLES. So if you send in 30 pp of your latest work, you do so understanding that THIS PARTICULAR STORY is not being considered for publication. They're looking for good writing, as well as a style and sensibility that's a good fit for the setting.
It's like any other audition. Imagine there's an open call for a new musical. You don't know anything about that musical, other than a general idea of setting and style--let's say it's set in 1940s Chicago and focuses on Big Band music. You like this style and it fits your voice, so you come in ready to perform your best song, something that really shows what you can do. If you DO win a role, the songs you'll be singing onstage will NOT be the song you sang at your audition.
|
| Tyrant |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:37:28
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Hi, Sandstorm. I think you're on the right track. Right now, you should be focusing on WRITING. Until you have a completed manuscript in hand, there's really no sense in looking for a publisher.
IMO, writing a Realms novel was absolutely not a waste of time. The only way you can learn to write is by writing, and it's probably wise to expect to write several stories as part of the learning process. No concert pianist expects to perform the first piece he learns. Artists seldom expect that the first painting they attempt will be displayed in a museum. If I was in a life-and-death duel, I'd prefer not to fight with the first weapon an apprentice swordsmith crafted. And so on. Any craft is learned and improved through practice. If your Realms story accomplished that, writing it was time well spent.
FYI, WotC is once again reading submissions. Here's a link to the new submission guidelines:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/writersguidelines
You might still find a page on the WotC website that says they're not accepting submissions of any kind, but that's an artifact of the old website. The WotC editors are aware of this, but it's like moving house--it takes a while to clean out the old house before you shut it down.
I'm not even close to an aspiring author but I did read the article in that link and I had a question (to anyone who can answer) just to satisfy my own curiosity. They (WotC) are asking for writing samples, and they also state they are not looking for novels, short stories, etc. So, as far as the writing samples, are they not looking for FR (or any other setting) specific samples? In other words, do they want a sample that has no clear connection to their IP? Like I said, I was just curious and wanted to be sure I was reading it correctly. |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 13:48:25
Hi, Sandstorm. I think you're on the right track. Right now, you should be focusing on WRITING. Until you have a completed manuscript in hand, there's really no sense in looking for a publisher.
IMO, writing a Realms novel was absolutely not a waste of time. The only way you can learn to write is by writing, and it's probably wise to expect to write several stories as part of the learning process. No concert pianist expects to perform the first piece he learns. Artists seldom expect that the first painting they attempt will be displayed in a museum. If I was in a life-and-death duel, I'd prefer not to fight with the first weapon an apprentice swordsmith crafted. And so on. Any craft is learned and improved through practice. If your Realms story accomplished that, writing it was time well spent.
FYI, WotC is once again reading submissions. Here's a link to the new submission guidelines:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/writersguidelines
You might still find a page on the WotC website that says they're not accepting submissions of any kind, but that's an artifact of the old website. The WotC editors are aware of this, but it's like moving house--it takes a while to clean out the old house before you shut it down. |
| Sandstorm |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 04:07:11
well thanks both with your advice. everyone here has been so helpful and it's quite refreshing to tell you the truth. yes blueblade I did put my realms set story aside...which was hard to do, but i did it, and I have since commenced on something of my own work. Luckily for myself my mind works in wondrous ways and I believe I have a satisfactory story, that if given to the right persons hands, should wow people. I realize that self motivation in this field is a huge part of success, and I believe I have that. Any advice and aid anyone has to offer is not taken for granted, so I thank everyone here from the very depths of my soul.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 23:38:56
Well, that really depends on what you're publishing. I could* put you in touch with some folks I know here in Australia. They've been great help during my own attempts at fiction/non-fiction publication over the last two years. They only problem with this though, is that we don't have as much international pull as say, the publishing companies of the US or UK. However, it's worth a consideration if you're stuck for options in your local market.
* Depending on the content of your stories. |
| Blueblade |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 23:35:33
Sandstorm, I'd say that depends on what sort of audience you're aiming at. If I were you, I'd head over to Ed's current thread in the Chamber of Sages, and ask Ed AND the Lovely Lady THO simultaneously. Ed's one of the most prolific fantasy writers and game designers active in print today, and THO has been (or still is) an editor (prolly freelance, if she still is), and can give a swift overview of major publishers and what they seem to currently specialize in.
Wooly is dead on re. your chances with pitching a Realms novel to Wizards (I know; I tried it in person some GenCons ago, and got told very much what Wooly told you, by a WotC staffer), but you DO have to start somewhere. I've always found Ed's advice to be honest and blunt, and the man himself is both friendly and encouraging.
The thing is: you can't get your Realms novel published right now, "out of the blue." So set it aside and write a really good fantasy yarn that has nothing to do with the Realms (don't worry about the setting, worry about the STORY). If it's good, and you get it published, then you can send a copy of the book to one of the WotC editors and ask if you can write a Realms novel, and you'll have a huge head start over the literally hundreds of Realms fans who'd love to write a Realms novel but haven't established themselves as writers.
So head on over and ask Ed and THO, and tyou can at least get the journey started...
BB |
| Sandstorm |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 21:24:47
So what publishing company would one suggest for an author trying to make a name for himself? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 16:27:54
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
Sandro, what is Maiden of Pain?
See here:- http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/novels/96709.htm
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 16:13:52
Ah, okay, I see.
Maiden of Pain was one of the novels in the Priests series. I still need to replace that one... |
| Sandstorm |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 15:47:28
Rupert, what I meant by "sketchy on the new changes" was that I was iffy on whether to incorporate them into my novel or not. Wasn't sure if it was a no go area for new writers or not.
And I now see what ya mean by Cattle Call. Looks like I'll have to be patient and play the waiting game. Although you're right, it wouldn't hurt to get something smaller published by a lesser company first for something to go off of. This conversation has been refreshing.
Sandro, what is Maiden of Pain? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 07:16:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
However, even when the Sage was new here, I think he already had projects on hold that had been promised months before!  
I won't deny that. 
And if Bookwyrm were still active here at Candlekeep, I'm certain he'd have two or three stories to share that deal directly with your assumption.  |
| Sandro |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 07:07:01
quote:
WotC has done at least one fiction-related cattle call, asking for people to submit writing samples, with the eventual goal of getting into an anthology. And a lot of those authors managed to later get book deals, too
They also did one for Maiden of Pain -- if you go way back on this shelf, you'll eventually find some threads about it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 05:21:21
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
I look forward to taking part in these forums. I'm actually somewhat saddened that I've only now discovered it. To be immersed in something which is so geek oriented... it's like... ambrosia. Ha ha! Also, thanks Sage for the Hooded One's post thread. I'll take a look at that. Should be interesting.
Hey, at one point, we were all new here.
However, even when the Sage was new here, I think he already had projects on hold that had been promised months before!
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
I have to be honest, I'm somewhat demorailized by the knowledge that this novel I've spent the last 2 years on has to go on hold and sit on my shelf. The good news is, and as the minutes go I get all the more giddy about it... is that an idea I had swirling around in the back of my mind years ago is now coming to fruition.
Having another idea brewing is always good.
And maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's better to be demoralized before the novel is finished than to complete it and then find out it's not going anywhere for a while.
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
What is that company again? Cattle Call? I searched for it and found nothing. Is it a publishing company or a writing agency?
Neither. It's a term more often associated with acting or music. A cattle call is when someone puts out a general call for new talent, and anyone, regardless of qualifications or prior experience, is allowed to try out.
WotC has done at least one fiction-related cattle call, asking for people to submit writing samples, with the eventual goal of getting into an anthology. And a lot of those authors managed to later get book deals, too.
I don't know if you were paying attention to the game then, but what WotC did when looking for a new setting was a kind of cattle call. It was that cattle call that eventually have us Eber-whatsit.
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
Also, I take great insult Mr. Rupert to you thinking my knowledge of the spell plague weak :P Au contraire my friend.... au contraire. (although not as confident that I spelt contraire correctly)
Heh, just going with what you said in your first post -- the "sketchy on the new changes" part. |
| Sandstorm |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 03:45:31
I look forward to taking part in these forums. I'm actually somewhat saddened that I've only now discovered it. To be immersed in something which is so geek oriented... it's like... ambrosia. Ha ha! Also, thanks Sage for the Hooded One's post thread. I'll take a look at that. Should be interesting.
I have to be honest, I'm somewhat demorailized by the knowledge that this novel I've spent the last 2 years on has to go on hold and sit on my shelf. The good news is, and as the minutes go I get all the more giddy about it... is that an idea I had swirling around in the back of my mind years ago is now coming to fruition.
What is that company again? Cattle Call? I searched for it and found nothing. Is it a publishing company or a writing agency?
Also, I take great insult Mr. Rupert to you thinking my knowledge of the spell plague weak :P Au contraire my friend.... au contraire. (although not as confident that I spelt contraire correctly)
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 23:51:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
well Mr. Rupert, you have been of great help to me this evening. Bearer of bad news as you are, I can hardly be mad. Ha ha. I must ask though, how is it that you know what you know? You seem to have much information on the topic, from what sorts of people get published, to the politics of the art, to Elminster's, or sorry, 'Ed Greenwood"s lack of intenet access.... {I mean come on, we all know who he really is ;) }
I've been on these forums for a few years now (just look at my post count! ), and I was on the WotC forums for a while before that. I've seen more than one person come in who was interested in writing for the Realms, and I've seen all of the responses, particularly from the already published authors -- of whom we have more than a few.
Indeed. I've been contacted, often by private means, asking about this exact topic. I usually pass along much of the same information as Wooly as well. Though my brief exposure to the non-fiction publishing market here in Australia has provided me with a few other insights that I normally pass along to perspective writers, since I can only imagine the process is similar for both sides of the fictional-divide -- to a degree.
quote:
As for Ed's internet access, that's something the lovely Lady Hooded One has mentioned more than once, and I've had the occasional odd issue with emailing Ed, as well.
Aye. Sandstorm, if you spend long enough in Ed's scroll [URL above], you'll soon come to appreciate the brief glimpses we usually receive about Ed's life.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 23:45:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yup, Ed does visit this forums, at least indirectly -- the lovely Lady Hooded One, one of his players, visits and relays questions, answers, and comments back and forth. Ed himself is in an area where his internet connection isn't so hot, and that's why he doesn't visit directly.
Ed's scroll can be found here:- http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12023
And, also, please note that almost all of Ed Greenwood’s replies here at Candlekeep are posted by The Hooded One. She has told us, previously, that she is actually one of Ed’s players who participates in his campaigns as one of the Knights of Myth Drannor. But the Lady Hooded One has kindly asked that we do not question her as to which Knight she plays, and thus, won't say anything more on the issue.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 23:42:50
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
well Mr. Rupert, you have been of great help to me this evening. Bearer of bad news as you are, I can hardly be mad. Ha ha. I must ask though, how is it that you know what you know? You seem to have much information on the topic, from what sorts of people get published, to the politics of the art, to Elminster's, or sorry, 'Ed Greenwood"s lack of intenet access.... {I mean come on, we all know who he really is ;) }
I've been on these forums for a few years now (just look at my post count! ), and I was on the WotC forums for a while before that. I've seen more than one person come in who was interested in writing for the Realms, and I've seen all of the responses, particularly from the already published authors -- of whom we have more than a few.
Some of it also comes from the past and current versions of WotC's Book Publishing Writer Resources page.
As for Ed's internet access, that's something the lovely Lady Hooded One has mentioned more than once, and I've had the occasional odd issue with emailing Ed, as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
As far as your suggestions go toward becomes well versed, I assure you I am. Not to sound egotistical or bullheaded, but I have read front to back the FR campaign settings, History of the Realms, etc... I love it. People ask me "what are your passtimes?" and for the sake of not sounding like a complete loser, I have to start coming up with names of sports, and places i've travelled etc... when deep down I'm thinking "I can't pull myself away from Forgotten Realms, Dungeons and Dragons, and everything fantasy. Not to say I dont have a life outside the hardcovers, but it fascinates me to no end. I also DM a Faerun set campaign with my buddy's. We always play in Faerun. Currently set in Athkatla, and it's getting ugly.
I only tossed that out there because of your stated weakness on the Spellplague and what it's done to the setting (that's an entire topic on its own; some people like the changes, some do not).
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
BUt ya, I just wanted to say thanks for your advice, and that I'll start working on getting something else published, as much of a set back as that is. Cattlecall you say huh? Sounds very promising. Ha ha.
Yeah, that's not the most promising term, is it?
quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm
Question though before I go... since you seem a well of knowledge... what are the limits as far as being able to write your own brand of fantasy/fiction? Obviously I can't dabble in the faerun map, or the pantheon, or the specific sorts of magic etc... and I'm sure particular races such as halfling and kobold, and the what not are no-nos as well... but the commons, such as dwarves, dragons, elves... fair game? yOu said they appreciate people who are able to create their own world... does that mean investing time in coming up with a whole new idea? Not that i'm incapable... but if working on something that would be more similarly related to F/R's setting would help me to get recognized, surely I would take that route.
Dragons, elves, dwarves and such are basic staples in fantasy, so they're fair game. A lot of these things spawn from real-world mythology, and have been adapted for use in fantasy settings. Kobolds, for example, are another real world critter adjusted for fantasy use. One of my favorite fantasy series mentions kobolds once, saying that kobolds are also known as gnomes, and that they are not all that smart. They are also not apparently the nuisance race that they are in D&D, since they share dwarven mines.
To get the best idea of what is and is not kosher to use, I'd read fantasy set in non-D&D worlds. Some of it is quite good, and there are a lot of different takes on the various fantasy races.
And it's not really necessary to create an entire setting -- just create your own playground. It's not as much about creating a believable world as it is creating a believable setting for your stories -- whether that setting is a generic fantasy setting, a post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting, an urban fantasy, or even the home of a family of criminals in Omaha, Nebraska. You have to be able to sell whatever setting you're working in -- it doesn't matter if it's the real world, a variation on the real world, or something created entirely by yourself. You don't have to make the world, just make the part of it that you're writing about believable. |
| Sandstorm |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 21:27:41
well Mr. Rupert, you have been of great help to me this evening. Bearer of bad news as you are, I can hardly be mad. Ha ha. I must ask though, how is it that you know what you know? You seem to have much information on the topic, from what sorts of people get published, to the politics of the art, to Elminster's, or sorry, 'Ed Greenwood"s lack of intenet access.... {I mean come on, we all know who he really is ;) }
As far as your suggestions go toward becomes well versed, I assure you I am. Not to sound egotistical or bullheaded, but I have read front to back the FR campaign settings, History of the Realms, etc... I love it. People ask me "what are your passtimes?" and for the sake of not sounding like a complete loser, I have to start coming up with names of sports, and places i've travelled etc... when deep down I'm thinking "I can't pull myself away from Forgotten Realms, Dungeons and Dragons, and everything fantasy. Not to say I dont have a life outside the hardcovers, but it fascinates me to no end. I also DM a Faerun set campaign with my buddy's. We always play in Faerun. Currently set in Athkatla, and it's getting ugly.
BUt ya, I just wanted to say thanks for your advice, and that I'll start working on getting something else published, as much of a set back as that is. Cattlecall you say huh? Sounds very promising. Ha ha.
Question though before I go... since you seem a well of knowledge... what are the limits as far as being able to write your own brand of fantasy/fiction? Obviously I can't dabble in the faerun map, or the pantheon, or the specific sorts of magic etc... and I'm sure particular races such as halfling and kobold, and the what not are no-nos as well... but the commons, such as dwarves, dragons, elves... fair game? yOu said they appreciate people who are able to create their own world... does that mean investing time in coming up with a whole new idea? Not that i'm incapable... but if working on something that would be more similarly related to F/R's setting would help me to get recognized, surely I would take that route. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 19:09:38
Yup, Ed does visit this forums, at least indirectly -- the lovely Lady Hooded One, one of his players, visits and relays questions, answers, and comments back and forth. Ed himself is in an area where his internet connection isn't so hot, and that's why he doesn't visit directly.
As for the Spellplague, you should by all means incorporate it -- as far as the Realms is concerned, almost all of the novels have been set in the current timeframe. The current timeframe is now post-Spellplague, so that's where your stuff needs to be set, if you hope to get it published. To learn more about the post-Spellplague Realms, you need to get the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide at the very least; you should prolly also get the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. A subscription to the DDI would be recommended for this purpose as well, and reading all of the post-Spellplague novels. Why all that? If you want to set a novel or story in an existing setting, you need to be quite familiar with it.
Now, all that aside... You're not likely to get any kind of response from Wizards, other than a form rejection. Wizards does not accept unsolicited manuscripts. It doesn't matter if you write the greatest Realms novel ever imagined -- for their own protection, it will never get read, unless they specifically ask you for it.
So how do you get noticed? Get published with someone else, first. A writer has to write, write, write, and then write some more. And not just in shared settings, like this one -- a great way to polish your craft is to write in non-shared settings, particularly self-created settings. And after you've started getting enough polish to be worthy of consideration by publishing houses (and there's a lot more aspiring writers than there are talented ones, and more talented ones than there are opportunities for publication), start getting stuff published. Get yourself noticed, get your name out there. Prove you can write, and prove you can write for deadlines -- you've got to show what you can do before you'll get chances to do more.
As for WotC, most of their newer authors have come from cattle calls. These cattle calls are all-too-infrequent for a number of hopeful writers. But that's the best chance to get your foot in the door with them -- get yourself established as a writer, and then wait for WotC to go looking for new talent. That is, unfortunately, pretty much your only way to get in with WotC.
And before you ask it, as some of our aspiring writers have, a lot of the already-established writers aren't going to be able to offer much more than just advice and pointers. These writers already have families, jobs, and their own writing careers, so they're not going to have the time to look over your manuscript. And a lot of writers wouldn't even if they had time, because that protects them from accusations of plagiarism.
Becoming a published author is a long and difficult road. Don't set your sights on only one publisher -- get noticed as a writer, and then let them come to you. Doing anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment.
And I'm not trying to discourage you or any other hopeful author -- I'm just pointing out what the reality of the situation is. I've seen a lot of hopeful authors here, and I've seen what the professionals have said to them. A lot of us, myself included, would eventually love to write a Realms novel. I'm just trying to be realistic and make sure that any hopefuls know what they have to do, and that it won't be an easy road to travel. |
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