| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 15:13:16
Well met
Apparently, WotC have cancelled the Eberron and Discoveries novel lines. Pulling the plug on commissioned novels by many authors in the series.
I don't know much more on this. There's a bit of a snippet on Matt Forbeck's blog
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| DragonReader |
Posted - 18 Aug 2008 : 18:57:24
quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
quote:
Originally posted by DragonReader
quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
I actually haven't read any official word that the entire eberron series is going to be cancelled. Which would be a shame. Their books are very fast paced and entertaining. Good filler for when I'm waiting for new DL and FR books. I did notice the next drizzt novel is not on the list of upcoming products... however.
That is probably because it has NOT been cancelled. Various Eberron authors have discussed it with their editors and have been assure it will continue although it will be refocused and probably fewer novels will be coming out each year.
I distrust the establishment. Chris Metzen said that they weren't going to kill Illidan...
There seems to be alot of that, but given that they just released book 1 of a series that won't be finished until 2010. Why would they do that if they were ending the line? Given that the authors have been told the line is continuing, why would we doubt it? |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 02:06:51
Congrats, Sage (and all other DL fans)!  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 02:02:41
From Gen Con [via the dragonlance.com boards], Phil Athans has confirmed that DL novels will continue past '09.
Woot!  |
| Nkoda |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 01:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by DragonReader
quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
I actually haven't read any official word that the entire eberron series is going to be cancelled. Which would be a shame. Their books are very fast paced and entertaining. Good filler for when I'm waiting for new DL and FR books. I did notice the next drizzt novel is not on the list of upcoming products... however.
That is probably because it has NOT been cancelled. Various Eberron authors have discussed it with their editors and have been assure it will continue although it will be refocused and probably fewer novels will be coming out each year.
I distrust the establishment. Chris Metzen said that they weren't going to kill Illidan... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 01:41:33
quote:
Originally posted by DragonReader
That is probably because it has NOT been cancelled. Various Eberron authors have discussed it with their editors and have been assure it will continue although it will be refocused and probably fewer novels will be coming out each year.
I think that's a good idea, personally. When novels are coming out each month, after a while they become difficult to keep up with (for me anyway). |
| DragonReader |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 22:31:47
quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
I actually haven't read any official word that the entire eberron series is going to be cancelled. Which would be a shame. Their books are very fast paced and entertaining. Good filler for when I'm waiting for new DL and FR books. I did notice the next drizzt novel is not on the list of upcoming products... however.
That is probably because it has NOT been cancelled. Various Eberron authors have discussed it with their editors and have been assure it will continue although it will be refocused and probably fewer novels will be coming out each year. |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 15:00:33
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Merrik: I wrote an X-Men novel called Soul Killer. Also short stories in the anthologies The Ultimate Spider-Man, Untold Tales of Spider-Man, and The Ultimate Super-villain. As I mentioned, this was back when a different packager and publisher were doing the Marvel prose books, so all of those are long out of print. You could probably get them from a used book dealer, though.
I will look for certain. Ebay is a wonderful thing |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 04:46:48
Merrik: I wrote an X-Men novel called Soul Killer. Also short stories in the anthologies The Ultimate Spider-Man, Untold Tales of Spider-Man, and The Ultimate Super-villain. As I mentioned, this was back when a different packager and publisher were doing the Marvel prose books, so all of those are long out of print. You could probably get them from a used book dealer, though. |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 03:13:37
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Part of me is saddened as this will prevent some young authors to write and flourish, using Eberron as training grounds for greater future endeavours;
However...
I'd be lying if I'd say that I'm entirely saddened at seeing Eberron tank... I've stayed 100% true to the Realms and I haven't even looked once at Eberron, disagreeing with the production of this setting from the get go...
One has to wonder though: why didn't they send that Spellplague in Eberron instead, since Eberron is obviously more expendable than the Realms? (i.e. they cancelled Eberron's books, not the Realms line...)
Finally, methinks the Realms are next to go on the chopping block. Don't ask me why: it's just a bad feeling I have right now... 
(I just wish Paizo would buy the Realms off WotC...  )
I never played Eberron but there was some good stuff there. Some novels are OK |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 03:01:54
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
It's been my experience (admittedly limited, but I have been through this once, with the novel line based on Marvel Comics) that when the license for a particular franchise moves from one publisher to another, many of the writers who have been working in the shared world aren't invited along for the ride. The new editor tends to offer the assignments to writers he's already worked with.
Now obviously, wherever the FR went, Ed and Bob would be more than welcome to go with them. But if you enjoy the work that others are currently doing in the setting, you might want to think twice before praying to Waukeen that this particular business transaction comes to pass. (Or, conversely, if you think we all suck, then maybe it's time to sacrifice a chicken or two.)
Not to sound too fanboyish I would expect they would bring you and Mr. Kemp along as well.
What Marvel book did you write?
And one thing to remember is a. I'm not sure of Hasbro would be as uptight about keeping tabs on everything as much as George Lucas is and B. I'm not sure other companies would be as interested in producing Realms novels as much as Star Wars novels to put up with that lack of control |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 02:57:17
quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I think the basic idea of jumping ahead a century is that a fresh start will encourage new customers to give the setting a try.
The experience of Dragonlance Fifth Age suggests another possibility--failing to bring in a large new audience while giving the old audience a good excuse to stop buying/collecting the books.
Perhaps it will work better with the Realms this time, but this is most certainly a perilous path they've headed down.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder
to say the least. I think its likely a very bad idea. The real question then will be will WoTC retcon back to the 1380s or just drop FR altogether |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 21:35:37
-I like it the way it is. 
BRIMSTONE  |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 21:33:28
It's been my experience (admittedly limited, but I have been through this once, with the novel line based on Marvel Comics) that when the license for a particular franchise moves from one publisher to another, many of the writers who have been working in the shared world aren't invited along for the ride. The new editor tends to offer the assignments to writers he's already worked with.
Now obviously, wherever the FR went, Ed and Bob would be more than welcome to go with them. But if you enjoy the work that others are currently doing in the setting, you might want to think twice before praying to Waukeen that this particular business transaction comes to pass. (Or, conversely, if you think we all suck, then maybe it's time to sacrifice a chicken or two.)
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| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 21:01:36
-Cool thanks for the insight!
BRIMSTONE |
| JamesLowder |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 20:58:36
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-What if Wizards sold a license to, Del-Ray Books to publish Forgotten Realms Novels (Or D&D Novels reguardless the setting)? Wouldn't Wizards get money from the License, and a portion of the profits. Kinda like Star Wars Novels? Del-Rey would pay the Authors, pay to publish, pay to market, and WotC would get payed for just using the FR Brand. Money for nothing sounds like a winner to me? Is this possible.
Yes, if Hasbro and Wizards decide to go this route. Another publisher could take over the editing of the lines, would hire authors and so on. However, the outside house would still need to submit everything they do to Hasbro for approval. Several people at Hasbro and then Wizards would review every step of the product's creation and accept the submitted material, ask for changes, or reject it.
So while WotC could reduce their cost for creating and publishing the books this way--shifting the burden for editorial services, printing, distribution, and advertising to the outside house--they would still need to pay staff at Hasbro and WotC to review all the licensed material and keep track of continuity. They would need to make enough on the license fees to pay for that approval and continuity work to be done in house. And the outside publisher would not be able to do anything with the books without the explicit approval of Hasbro.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 20:48:40
-What if Wizards sold a license to, Del-Ray Books to publish Forgotten Realms Novels (Or D&D Novels reguardless the setting)? Wouldn't Wizards get money from the License, and a portion of the profits. Kinda like Star Wars Novels? Del-Rey would pay the Authors, pay to publish, pay to market, and WotC would get payed for just using the FR Brand. Money for nothing sounds like a winner to me? Is this possible.
BRIMSTONE |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 16:46:19
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
And 4E did not change the fact that even if the whole game is based on gamist mechanics, the DMG says that the DM must sometime override them to push some agenda or "fun"  .
I know, it's a sickening thought, that people play D&D just to have fun. People have forgotten the real purpose of it, which is...hmm, let me get back to you on that.
Problem is, "fun" is not the same for everyone. Personally, I don't have fun when a DM fudges dices to make me win anyway a fight after I made some critical tactical errors.
IMHO, it is in fact much easier to have fun by actually playing a game that fit our playstyle the way it was designed to play.
Fun emerges from playing a game, it's not something someone can force unto the others.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 16:34:47
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
And 4E did not change the fact that even if the whole game is based on gamist mechanics, the DMG says that the DM must sometime override them to push some agenda or "fun" .
I know, it's a sickening thought, that people play D&D just to have fun. People have forgotten the real purpose of it, which is...hmm, let me get back to you on that. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 16:27:16
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
What's the change then ? At any time in the past, sales going down would have put the FR line in danger.
You mean that FR novels following the 4E FR changes may lead to a drop of sales ?
No. I meant exactly what I said, and I think what I said was quite clear. |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 01:13:58
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
This discussion is interesting, but it's no longer really related to the main topic. Perhaps a new thread is in order?
This way for new thread (including a response to Richard). |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 00:09:00
I think that in this context, "synergy" doesn't mean that the fiction should reflect game play in a slavish or overt fashion. It just means that, if a customer enjoys a book with a brand name like Magic: the Gathering or Forgotten Realms on it, he can also find gaming products bearing the same label. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 22:33:35
This discussion is interesting, but it's no longer really related to the main topic. Perhaps a new thread is in order? |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 22:12:28
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I don't know them well enough to comment. What about their gameist orientation?
The most pro-gamism elements of D&D aren't new, even if AD&D 2E tried to cover them a bit. The whole advancement system (XP, Levels, etc.) was always based on players overcoming challenges.
And 4E did not change the fact that even if the whole game is based on gamist mechanics, the DMG says that the DM must sometime override them to push some agenda or "fun" .
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I agree that following the letter of the rules of any version of D&D, rather than using them as a resolution system subordinate to the collaborative narration, won't look much like the Realms.
The fact is that the resolution system of D&D (which didn't change much from previous edition) is not a powerful one.
Some RPGs have systems that can work at different level of abstraction and that consider intent (see conflict resolution vs task resolution).
Classes, Hit points, and the kind of spells developped for the need of a gamist fantasy RPG built atop a wargame are also often obstacles for fiction writers.
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
For me the Realms is most defined by its feel and design principles, most of which are being dropped or modified wholesale, as I've discussed at length.
Tell me what you consider to be the feel and design principles of the realms (and put emphasis on those you think are dropped/modified), I'm very interested about this issue. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 21:40:55
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
What kind of series are you talking about, things like "Fighters", "Wizards", etc. or something like "Last Mythal" where you can nearly count rounds during combat ?
Sorry, I was being too concise there. I wasn't referring to Realms books at all but to things like the series that started in 2002 with The Savage Caves. So the synergy would be to combine that with an established setting.
I don't think of the Avatar Trilogy as much like any core story of D&D.quote:
I think that 4E rules are a lot more easy to deal with for authors if WoTC ask them to follow them when possible than any D&D previous editions.
I don't know them well enough to comment. What about their gameist orientation?quote:
Or, in other words, D&D (any edition) isn't very appropriate if the goal for the FR setting is to have a nice match between shared-world-fiction and actual play.
I agree that following the letter of the rules of any version of D&D, rather than using them as a resolution system subordinate to the collaborative narration, won't look much like the Realms.quote:
I'm not sure FR have lost so many of its defining features in the 4E transition. The Weave is a good example, it is something that both in fiction and play never got so much impact as it should by it's nature. As they coulnd't embrace it, removing it completly was IMHO a very good move.
For me the Realms is most defined by its feel and design principles, most of which are being dropped or modified wholesale, as I've discussed at length. Much Realms fiction (as well as sourcebooks like Volo's Guide to All Things Magical) does go into the intimate workings of magic, its 'metamagical' and philosophical extensions in Faerūn, which are an inextricable part of its themes and social/historical workings alike. That's the active change, and it's more significant than the fact that they removed the Weave in the backstory rather than altered it.quote:
However, the excerpts on WoTC are bland and boring, that's the really bad news.
If you give up a rich unifying metaphysics in favour of a new ad hoc one, that's liable to be the case. |
| JamesLowder |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 21:17:08
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There've been at least three novel series tied directly to the core D&D experience, and while I don't know their sales figures, none of them made it to hardback.
If one of the series you're thinking of is the original Avatar Trilogy, those sold incredibly well and were not hardcover because TSR did not do hardcover or even larger sized trade paperback at the time. Waterdeep was a New York Times bestseller at a time when the company had very few of those.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 21:14:23
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
FR being more close to the core D&D experience may increase its popularity among the D&D players.
There've been at least three novel series tied directly to the core D&D experience, and while I don't know their sales figures, none of them made it to hardback. Though a new synergy is always possible. Of course, the more straightforwardly D&D, the less Realms in anything but name, which among other things would harm the Realms brand in the longer term (after the next edition changeover).
What kind of series are you talking about, things like "Fighters", "Wizards", etc. or something like "Last Mythal" where you can nearly count rounds during combat ?
PSK novels are a lot closer to D&D than Elaine novels were and he is also very popular here, no ?
I think that 4E rules are a lot more easy to deal with for authors if WoTC ask them to follow them when possible than any D&D previous editions. That doesn't mean I pround of the work done to bring FR to 4E D&D and that I approve chosing Bruce Cordell as the main designer 
Other kinds of RPGs would greatly help to reduce the gap between play and novels, but it won't happen so...
Or, in other words, D&D (any edition) isn't very appropriate if the goal for the FR setting is to have a nice match between shared-world-fiction and actual play.
I'm not sure FR have lost so many of its defining features in the 4E transition. The Weave is a good example, it is something that both in fiction and play never got so much impact as it should by it's nature. As they coulnd't embrace it, removing it completly was IMHO a very good move.
However, the excerpts on WoTC are bland and boring, that's the really bad news. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 20:38:34
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
FR being more close to the core D&D experience may increase its popularity among the D&D players.
There've been at least three novel series tied directly to the core D&D experience, and while I don't know their sales figures, none of them made it to hardback. Though a new synergy is always possible. Of course, the more straightforwardly D&D, the less Realms in anything but name, which among other things would harm the Realms brand in the longer term (after the next edition changeover). |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 20:03:57
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
At some point, we should ask the question "What can we do?" (Although, perhaps someone has already done so.)
I literally asked 'So what are we going to do about all this?' in an email I sent last night. (Who are you? What do you want? What are you going to do about it?) I don't really know. Tell me if you figure it out. I suspect things will look unpredictably different in a couple of years.
I'm sure many of us here would like to know the outcome of your E-mail. I hope that it helps.
As for figuring it out, the impression I get is that we're all scratching our heads wondering what Loony Tune (Thanks RR) came up with the idea in the first place.
I'm thinking of posting a "What I would have done" post over the weekend. Basically because it's one thing to criticise, its another to suggest solutions. It's all a question of time really. |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 20:00:32
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The change is that sales are more likely to go down now than at previous points: Wizards paying less attention to the Realms, with finite promotional money likely to go to the 'core brands'. The portion of long-time readers who give up after the 100-year shift. A two-year-old setting being inevitably less rich than a 40-year-old one. The death of many popular characters. Loss of popular authors like Elaine Cunningham; others, like Ed, having to write in an unfamiliar world. The requirement of the fiction line to creatively serve D&D rather than the setting. Diminished confidence in the future of the line caused by these cancellations. Against these factors, as far as we know, are the possibility that the new Realms is more appealing to novel readers, draws many new ones in by its novelty, putative mainstream (not actually mainstream but to niches like computer gamers, as I hear) D&D advertising yet to take place; or the books are pruned down to Bob Salvatore and a few others per year.
FR being more close to the core D&D experience may increase its popularity among the D&D players.
The last Elaine's FR novel is already many years old.
I'm not worried about the ability for Ed to write in 4E realms.
One thing that could make the sales drop is RAS stoping writting after Transitions.
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| Faraer |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 19:47:29
The change is that sales are more likely to go down now than at previous points: Wizards paying less attention to the Realms, with finite promotional money likely to go to the 'core brands'. The portion of long-time readers who give up after the 100-year shift. A two-year-old setting being inevitably less rich than a 40-year-old one. The death of many popular characters. Loss of popular authors like Elaine Cunningham; others, like Ed, having to write in an unfamiliar world. The requirement of the fiction line to creatively serve D&D rather than the setting. Diminished confidence in the future of the line caused by these cancellations. Against these factors, as far as we know, are the possibility that the new Realms is more appealing to novel readers, draws many new ones in by its novelty, putative mainstream (not actually mainstream but to niches like computer gamers, as I hear) D&D advertising yet to take place; or the books are pruned down to Bob Salvatore and a few others per year. |
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