| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dantrag |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 03:56:17
Have you noticed since the great Drizzt series almost every writer is on a drow book? Please tell me your opinions on this.... |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 08:41:45
Everyone has different perspectives on this Bookwyrm. Sometimes there are times when people enjoy the story that is more realistic, than idealistic, as they can identify with what is occuring in the story. The tricky thing with idealism, is that sometimes it is impossible to attain in a given set of circumstances at a specific time.
However, should the idealistic hopes of that same person who identified with the realistic earlier triumph, so much the better, as you say people want hope. It allows them to strive past adversity. As in the example you stated, Danilo and Arilyn's relationship continues to evolve, adapting to the obstacles that are strewn across their path, each step forging a closer and closer bond between the two.
I guess it really all depends on how people choose to interpret what romance means to them personally.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 07:50:04
You really think so? You think everyone wants a story that's more realistic than idealistic? In the real world, good and evil are often evenly matched. No one likes a story where the good guys loose in the end. But they often do in real life.
Same thing with the romances. People want hope, hope that their lives aren't as worthless as they feel. They want good to triumph over evil, they want the people to fall in love. I'm not talking about fairy tales, I'm talking about ordinary people who just happen to fall in love. It doesn't have to be true love. And it's okay if the road's more than a little rocky. That makes it all the more real, and lets others believe that maybe they can overcome their obstacles as well.
I wouldn't call the relationship between Danilo and Arilyn a true-love romance, but that's the sort of thing that people want. Not too much angst, not too little progress, and you get the sense that everything will work out. |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 06:51:33
You've never heard of the weather caused by Torm? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 05:17:25
Zacas, I think you meant Lord of Stormweather  .
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| Zacas |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 04:25:12
Well... I know the living happily ever after thing would get old too... but as of late i've read a lot of the FR novels that two people get together during the course of one (or more novels) only to have one die, disappear, or whatever... it just kinda gets old too :P let's see... tho my memory sucks terribly... i can list some of the ones that i can recall...
*POSSIBLE SPOILERS*
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Okay...
Death of a Dragon (Third of Cormyr)
Faces of Deception (second of Lost Empires)
Windwalker (third of Starlight and Shadows)
The Druid Queen (third of Druidhome trilogy)
Lord of Tormweather (Finale of Sembia series)
bleh... now i can't remember the others.. but i know there were several others i had thought of... but now drawing a blank... ah well |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 02:55:51
I have to agree with you on this Mournblade. The imagery of all romantics in novels "living happily-ever-after" is sometimes very unrealistic. The considerable time and effort that one puts into a relationship as portrayed in the books at times is made more realistic by the fact, that those same affections may be rejected, or in some cases even misplaced.
I have noted several of these examples from the books you mentioned.
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| Mournblade |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 00:44:24
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Same here. I'm too much of a romantic to like any sort of "detergent drama" love story. Of course, I do want a bit of the jouney in there, but I want them to get there! Like you said, the Cadderly story was a good one for that. Unobtrusive, didn't get in the way of the story, and actually complemented it.
This is terrible for me to say as I am dating someone now, but I USED to like when the lovers finished the journey for I USED to be a romantic. Then Reality swept in, and my romance went the way of the BLACKGUARD. Of course Kim would tell you I am a romantic, I tell her I am not and she thinks I am lying to myself, but I think that part of me left a long time ago. Now I think it is more realistic when they DO NOT get there. Not that I necessarily like it more... But it always seemed fake to me that the romances always worked. Read Harlequin books for that.
I was going to make a tasteless joke about the two characters from the book you are speaking of but I am not going to. It is below even me
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 11 Jul 2003 : 19:39:18
Same here. I'm too much of a romantic to like any sort of "detergent drama" love story. Of course, I do want a bit of the jouney in there, but I want them to get there! Like you said, the Cadderly story was a good one for that. Unobtrusive, didn't get in the way of the story, and actually complemented it. |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 11 Jul 2003 : 18:24:59
Ageed. WotC makes a big show in their writer's guidelines about not using hackneyed old plots. Apparently "star-crossed lovers" hasn't quite reached the same level of triteness as "farmboy finds magic sword, learns he is son of powerful wizard, reluctantly becomes mighty hero, saves world".
The Drizzt/Cattie Brie non-romance is my least favorite ascpect of the "Drizzt" books. The "Cadderly" books lack that limp thread, one reason they are better. |
| Mythander |
Posted - 11 Jul 2003 : 15:21:21
quote:
Originally posted by Zacas
as another 'Have You noticed'...
Have you noticed how a lot of the novels, especially recently, have those near romeo+juliet tragedies things... that the main characters (often a couple... or a few couples or a group) defeat all odds and such... only to have most of the group, or one-half of the new budding relationship, die at the end...?
I know there are a lot of the FR novels that have ended in such a way... the the story builds up the pair (or group) only to end up breaking it apart and make it a sad ending and all... to me it gets tiring... i even sent and E-mail to Elaine Cunningham (partially) about an ending to a certain novel (which i don't plan to name... as it might be considered spoilers base on this post) and about certain characters that survived and if she had any plans on continuing with what members survived...
She seemed to agree that many of the novels have this kind of sad ending...
I defiantly agree that the situation happens all too often.
With that in mind, I do feel that in the Novel in which you speak, it needed to happen if other characters are to be expanded upon in any future books. I think with without it happening the character development of other characters would be hindered.
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| Zacas |
Posted - 10 Jul 2003 : 21:01:44
as another 'Have You noticed'...
Have you noticed how a lot of the novels, especially recently, have those near romeo+juliet tragedies things... that the main characters (often a couple... or a few couples or a group) defeat all odds and such... only to have most of the group, or one-half of the new budding relationship, die at the end...?
I know there are a lot of the FR novels that have ended in such a way... the the story builds up the pair (or group) only to end up breaking it apart and make it a sad ending and all... to me it gets tiring... i even sent and E-mail to Elaine Cunningham (partially) about an ending to a certain novel (which i don't plan to name... as it might be considered spoilers base on this post) and about certain characters that survived and if she had any plans on continuing with what members survived...
She seemed to agree that many of the novels have this kind of sad ending... |
| Mythander |
Posted - 10 Jul 2003 : 19:50:25
Don't get me wrong I love the Drow books. The Icewind Dale Trilogy was the first Realms books I read. but, I think the reason for so many Drow books come down to 2 things. #1 Books sales, The Salvator books are some of the best selling books they have out. #2 It gives the writers a whole new demention of writing. You have a whole new enviroment when you are in the Underdark. Also, If you are going to write about an evil Charecters like in the War of the Spider Queen books the trail has already been blazed.
One other thing I don't think there are a lot of Drow books outside of Salvator. There are 9 (with three not even out yet) out of 166 (with 12 not released yet).
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| Dantrag |
Posted - 23 Jun 2003 : 18:39:07
quote:
Originally posted by Erevis Cale
For some reason, the drow books never appealed to me and while I want to read them as they are part of the history of Faerun, I dont really look forward to it.
Some of them are great books. The drow are full of puzzels and decipition which is a very interesting trait. And The books are not all about drow, just look at the Starlight& Shadows trilogy. Why don't you try one drow book , and if you don't like it don't read another one...... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Jun 2003 : 13:18:19
I am curious. Is there some specific reason why these books do not appeal to you?.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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| Erevis Cale |
Posted - 21 Jun 2003 : 05:31:12
For some reason, the drow books never appealed to me and while I want to read them as they are part of the history of Faerun, I dont really look forward to it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Jun 2003 : 07:52:43
Bookwyrm, several sourcebooks in 2e FR had listings of the past Years, as well as listing about twenty of so Years into the future. Of course this was back in 1367DR, so...
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 17 Jun 2003 : 05:54:50
Hmm. I didn't know that they had published year names in advance. With a name like that, I guess they must have already thought of it. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 17:16:23
Well we are coming up to the Year or Risen Elfkin so perhaps that will shift the spotlight from the drow to the elves.
Of course, elfkin brings about all sorts of possibilities. Although nothing has been confirmed, Rich Baker's future trilogy "The Last Mythal," might focus on this year.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 08:42:43
Or maybe even a 'Year of the Wyrm' (not you Bookwyrm ). A major increase in Dragon and Wyrmling activity across the Realms. There hasn't been a flight of wyrms threatening populated areas in some time, the kind of flight which lead to the death, originally, of Sylune of Shadowdale.
Or maybe, something related to that 300-year cycle all Dragonkind is supposed to be affected by, the Rage of Dragons, I think it was called.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 08:37:46
Yes, that could be workable. Especially with all the Thunder Children who're coming of age . . . . |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 08:36:22
You could have 'Year of the Dwarves', a major action to retake several of their old citadels and fortresses from Orc and Goblinoid control, generating a resurgence in the amount of Dwarven activity in the Realms, especially from the south (the Great Rift).
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 16 Jun 2003 : 00:06:43
Well, since the Retreat is supposed to be over -- how about a Year of the Elf's Return? I can't think of any other race-like names right now, at least none that work out right. There has to be some theme besides the race, stated or implied. "Year of the Drow" works nice, because most Faerunians don't interact with them. But Year of the Humans? Year of the Halflings? What about 'em? The elven one's the only thing really easy -- culture clashes as the elves start moving back in or something . . . . |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jun 2003 : 12:47:23
Perhaps a year based on every character race in D&D is what is required then, to break the cycle of Elven/Drow gaming features.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 14 Jun 2003 : 16:31:04
Well . . . maybe we should consider that the 'Year of the Drow' was planned this way. They had a lot of drow material and figured "Hey, let's make it a year-long theme!"
Now, don't assume I agree with that; as a story-teller-for-fun-not-profit, I think that things are best in a more drawn-out presentation, to prolong the good parts as much as possible. But maybe they thought otherwise. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jun 2003 : 15:23:24
I happen to agree...to an extent with this sroll. While I enjoy all this work on Drow, it does seem to be proliferating at an exponential rate, and I feel that perhaps other, just as equally important races are simply being ignored.
I for one still stand by my original statement. I believe that the time is ripe for a new series based on the lesser-used races of the Realms, like the Dwarves, or even Gnomes. Rare has there been a time with a Realms series dedicated to races other than Elves and/or Drow.
A little balance in racial tales is what is needed.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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| KlarthAilerion |
Posted - 13 Jun 2003 : 17:42:30
If all most drow ever do is plot "intrigue" and kill off the others, how does anything new ever get built? Stale material if you ask me. Now, give me some ingenuitive growth like the dwarves are supposed to be going through as a race, and you can come up with tons of interesting stories.
And no, I'm not reading WofSQ yet. I'm trying to wait until I have them all to start, but that doesn't always work out so well.  |
| Elrond Half Elven |
Posted - 13 Jun 2003 : 17:07:44
Personally i cannot see the overwhelming intrest in drizzt. I really like drow, but i prefere Vampires, and the Undead. The Drow are villianous but there is something terrifying about intelligant living-dead.  Of Salvatore's novels i prefere those that make up the Dark Elf Trilogy. The harsh world of the drow has a certian lure to DMs and i might even think of setting a Campaign there but mainly because i bought the Menzoberran Boxset about 3 years ago and still havent used it!
Hopefully this craze will soo finish and we can return to Product detailing the upper realms. How about a nice book of Political Unrest above ground?
Hanx
Elrond |
| Dantrag |
Posted - 13 Jun 2003 : 02:43:12
Perhaps they will make a new race of something. Then the craze will start all over again. But personaly i like the old Salvatore novels... |
| Mikayla |
Posted - 12 Jun 2003 : 21:35:01
I am definitely one of the Drow fanatics mentioned above, and I have been since I was in grade school and I first saw a picture of a black-skinned elf in the back of the Module G-3. Once I learned that the women ruled the drow, I was hooked! Girls had a place in D&D - even if it was as the villains, at least they were among the coolest villains.
Soooo, over the years, I have read all the drow-related books and used/read/played all the drow related game materials. I know, its an obsession and I need therapy - c'est la vie. As for the recent explosion of drow stuff, well, yes, the power of the dollar is amazing. I fear for what WotC/Hasbro is doing to/with the drow in the WotSQ series, but I suppose we shall cross that bridge when we get there.
ciao!
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| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 20:43:21
Yas, I didn't mean to imply that I think everyone who likes Drow are mindless zombies of the marketing machine. I like Drow, in good material. That seems to be what you imply as well.
I'm not going to like something for no other reason than "It's Drow". Sort of like Marvel comics making all kinds of things mutants to try to catch some of the X-Men star power. Slapping "mutant" on a superhero doesn't autmatically make him or her interesting, and slapping "Drow" on a product doesn't automatically make it worth buying, in my opinion. I know others disagree, and all I can say is I'm glad they're not spending my money. |
