| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 01:27:39
Ok, I'm still working my way through it, but I wanted to see what some have seen so far and compare notes. Some of this may have been released in previous products, and if so maybe noting that will help us all lead somewhere. As always, the name of the game is speculation.
Firstly, I liked George's article on the fall of Narfell/Raumathar. From it, we learn a few things and have some definitions to correlate to future things.
First, in -160 DR a "hortha" of Kostchtchie was summoned to the realms. From this, I gather that a "hortha" is something less than an avatar... because in -150 DR an "urhortha" or avatar of Kossuth was summoned.
Other definitions
Sarnar - year (plural years is Sarn)
Drith - summoned extraplanars (presumably demons)
Drithdarkar - presumably Narfellian conjurers of some sort (demonbinders most likely)
Dun-Orthass - another name for the citadel of conjurers
From other areas, we discover that the demonic magic of the Nars was from Narathmault, which was formerly a holding of the Ilythiir (see -1015 dr, -9750 DR, -10000 DR and -10400 DR). It was Clan Sethomiir who traversed there, guided by the balor Wendonai. Narathmault is an underground fortress "Dark Pit" and its at the site of Dun-Tharos (which is where the nentyarch built his capital and forged the crown of Narfell). Note, that even before the dark elves arrived there, they recognized the area as an "area of great evil". Therefore, theoretically, something happened to the area before the Narfellians came along (and therefore, THEY didn't necessarily create the demoncysts).
Another thing I find of interest, Larloch's enclave, Jiksidur, crashed in northern Narfell when Karsus cast his avatar spell. However, his warlock's crypt is actually his enemy's enclave of Orbedal. Therefore, before Narfell fell, there was a crashed netherese enclave within their domain (granted, this was in the last 190 years of their empire, but....). Also, conceivably, Larloch had some involvement with Narfell, otherwise his enclave wouldn't have been there?
Next, do we have a date for the death of Borem of the Boiling Mud yet? If not, we know that Kisonraathiisar's death was in -349 and he was the Topaz dragon ruling westgate. In the year of Boiling Moats (which was?) we have what would seem to be Kisonraathiisar speaking of the arrival of the mortal forms of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to kill Borem.
Note that the entry for the topaz dragon's death also gives us a different premise for the existence of the Hills of the Seven Lost Gods (ultimately providing us the reason that Selune has its tears). However, this entry also has what would seem a paradox, because it says that the dragon's used this trying to blast the stars (presumably the King-Killer's star). It also says that it caused "an inland sea to mark their failure". Now, there could be several things here. First, the dragon may have been wrong. Secondly, if true, this inland sea could not be the sea of fallen stars because it was formed before the dracorage mythal was created. I know there were some other instances mentioned of comets falling that I noted, but I haven't looked at yet.... did anyone note any lakes or seas being caused by such?
Mod edit: Decided to move this scroll to the RPG products section, since I looked for it there and couldn't find it. The Grand History is, after all, a Realms product, so... 
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Aysen |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 21:38:22
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
All of the art orders for my pieces thankfully came through okay. As for the others, I think that is supposed to be an orc and the piece on Kisonraathiisar was botched totally. All of it was recycled art so the picture that was supposed to be there was the one Eric thought fit 'best'. I can't recall which it was, all that I recall is that it was from a book I didn't have.
-- George Krashos
Thanks to you and Mr. James for the prompt explanations. It's a shame that we won't see Kisonraathiisar's demise from Saldrinar's spells, I would have like to see an artist's rendition of that. I also recognized more than a few of the recycled art from other sources. Most fit fine, the above were just a few instances were I was confused. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 07:11:01
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Nothing else yet on Hlundadim. I'll get to it one day.
-- George Krashos
-It could be that one day today.  Or have you talked about Hlundadim in your ask thread? 
BRIMSTONE |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 06:29:04
quote:
Originally posted by Aysen
Congratulations and best wishes for your family Mr. Krashos :)
Thank you. As someone who is about to go on a long haul flight with two children under 5, I'll take all the best wishes I can get.
quote:
Originally posted by Aysen
Returning to the GHotR, I was intrigued by the artifact the Golden Lamp of Samesaj on page 154. It seems pretty powerful to restore what the Sojourner stole away for his own use. Is there any more info on it?
Nope. I made it up to explain away the fact that Paul Kemp destroyed one of the Twin Towers and Iryklathagra took out the other one in the Rage of Dragons, with this latter reference implying that the other tower still stood. Eric and I brainstormed and decided that (as always) the solution was ... magic. Just what the Golden Lamp is and what it does are up to you. I have a few thoughts but won't trammel on your creative wiggle-room. Have fun with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Aysen
Also, I had a question about the erroneous art on pgs. 49 and 52. Is there anywhere we can see the correct labels, or if the captioning is correct, the correct art? I would love to see the dramatic scenes of Jhaamdath's fall or Kisonraathiisar's demise. Finally, is that really the Theurgist Thayd on page 38, or an orcish shaman from the Orcgate? It looks too bestial to be human, unless Thayd had undegone a demonic change.
All of the art orders for my pieces thankfully came through okay. As for the others, I think that is supposed to be an orc and the piece on Kisonraathiisar was botched totally. All of it was recycled art so the picture that was supposed to be there was the one Eric thought fit 'best'. I can't recall which it was, all that I recall is that it was from a book I didn't have.
-- George Krashos
|
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 03:50:22
The art of page 52 is correct, however the caption should read "Udoclian, University of the Invisible Art in Naarkolyth" |
| Aysen |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 03:32:21
Congratulations and best wishes for your family Mr. Krashos :)
Returning to the GHotR, I was intrigued by the artifact the Golden Lamp of Samesaj on page 154. It seems pretty powerful to restore what the Sojourner stole away for his own use. Is there any more info on it?
Also, I had a question about the erroneous art on pgs. 49 and 52. Is there anywhere we can see the correct labels, or if the captioning is correct, the correct art? I would love to see the dramatic scenes of Jhaamdath's fall or Kisonraathiisar's demise. Finally, is that really the Theurgist Thayd on page 38, or an orcish shaman from the Orcgate? It looks too bestial to be human, unless Thayd had undegone a demonic change.
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 10:46:18
Andrew is doing just fine - starting to become a regular little person, bothers his big brother incessantly and never came across anything in his short life that he couldn't at least try and fit into his mouth.
But I might be derailing the thread again so on with the lore.
-- George Krashos
|
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 02:08:22
Could the ship manned by skeletons mentioned in the Borem entry be the Necreme? Also, congrats George. The babby is almost 14 months now, huh? How's that working out for you?
Sorry to use thread necromancy, but this one was really interesting and kinda got derailed after Mr. Krashos added that little nugget. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 22:16:25
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Grats George on the new edition.
I don't think George is entirely to thank/blame for 4E! Congrats on the new addition though!
Nah, Mark was thinking of the baby as George 2.0. 
LOL
Talk about your Freudian slips.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 09:21:16
quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Grats George on the new edition.
I don't think George is entirely to thank/blame for 4E! Congrats on the new addition though!
Nah, Mark was thinking of the baby as George 2.0. |
| Brenigin |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 07:24:49
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Grats George on the new edition.
I don't think George is entirely to thank/blame for 4E! Congrats on the new addition though! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 05:50:53
Grats George on the new addition.
We all have to do our part to pump-out future gamers. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 03:24:41
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Could it be a reference to the Thulkarr [Maug-constructs] that were created by the Maug prisoners who were transported to Thuldanin?
Could be.
One of the scribes here at C-Keep put me onto this reference.
-- George Krashos
|
| Sian |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 21:20:46
is there a more detailed version of the northwesten potion of the map at page 44-45 ... more specificly a map of Ammarindars's borders ... as far as i can see on the map it should goall the way up to the coast of the narrow see ... can that be true? ... i never read anything about Ammarindar expanding out of greypeaks ...
Futhermore ... i read though and it aren't mentioned which clan the royal family of Ammarindar is .... i know that three clans from Ammarindar and citadel Felbarr migrated to Myth Drannor but there isn't noticed which clan from where other than two of the clan names is Snowsbattle and Jonedaxe ... anyone with some info about that? |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 20:42:18
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well, new house as soon as I arrived back home after GEN-CON. We had a baby boy last Friday. You know, life gets on top of you sometimes.
Congratulations George! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 17:40:36
Could it be a reference to the Thulkarr [Maug-constructs] that were created by the Maug prisoners who were transported to Thuldanin?
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 17:33:35
Thulkarr? I don't see the significance of it...  |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 16:57:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Can't see that anyone has picked up on a few of the 'easter eggs' I scattered through the piece.
I'm sure we noticed them, but there's just so much in there, that they might not have stood out as much.
But if you were to aim us in the direction of a couple of these Easter eggs, so we know what we're looking for...
The Raumathari war leader who led the construct invasion of Narfell.
-- George Krashos
|
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 15:30:22
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
George, you're alive! I'm glad to see you posting again.
Well, new house as soon as I arrived back home after GEN-CON. We had a baby boy last Friday. You know, life gets on top of you sometimes.
-- George Krashos
Congratulations, George! I just hope you boy will not take after his dad ... you know, beardlessness and all... alright, just kidding! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 14:24:31
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Can't see that anyone has picked up on a few of the 'easter eggs' I scattered through the piece.
I'm sure we noticed them, but there's just so much in there, that they might not have stood out as much.
But if you were to aim us in the direction of a couple of these Easter eggs, so we know what we're looking for... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 14:22:55
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
George, you're alive! I'm glad to see you posting again.
Well, new house as soon as I arrived back home after GEN-CON. We had a baby boy last Friday. You know, life gets on top of you sometimes.
-- George Krashos
Hey, congratulations on both!  |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 14:14:37
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
George, you're alive! I'm glad to see you posting again.
Well, new house as soon as I arrived back home after GEN-CON. We had a baby boy last Friday. You know, life gets on top of you sometimes.
-- George Krashos
Well, let me just jump in here with a congratulation then . |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 12:33:34
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
George, you're alive! I'm glad to see you posting again.
Well, new house as soon as I arrived back home after GEN-CON. We had a baby boy last Friday. You know, life gets on top of you sometimes.
-- George Krashos
|
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 06:01:51
George, you're alive! I'm glad to see you posting again. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 04:29:51
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Damn, found my first thing I don't like (just because it interferes with some theories, and its too uncreative). 1157, The Vampire Nyressa Flass was the Zulkir of Necromancy just prior to Szass Tam. Oh well, there goes the whole Tam family having held the Zulkirship (I had such hopes for you Shevas). It would have been so much more interesting for a vampire zulkir to NOT have been a necromancer. After all, vampires could turn any kind of mage. Oh well, at least its put to paper, so there can be no question.
What's not to like? That reference has been around for 12 years. "Spellbound" boxed set - Campaign Guide, p.8. Would have thought you would have seen that one years ago, Sleyvas.
-- George Krashos
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 04:28:03
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ok, I'm up to the 1100's now. Boy, something just hit me like a ton of bricks. Orcs adepts using circle magic under the direction of an archmage who has been around for at least 1400 years (though he was gone for a while). Any other information on this Hlundadim person to be found anywhere, other than he was either Netherese or possibly from another plane? Personally, I like the idea that he was a leave over from the orcgate wars, since he likes to use humanoids so much. Perhaps he poses in human form to confuse people? Perhaps he's a half-orc who looks more human than orcish? I see where these orcs also attacked Corymyr under the leadership of a shaman after Hlundadim disappeared. Any info on this (was it in Cormyr: a Novel). Oh, and guess the dwarvish name for cooperative magic is ularim?
Orcish circle magic and űlarim (the dwarf in question is using the orc term - the dwarves of days gone by were very familiar with this type of magic) were first mentioned in the "Elminster's Ecologies" boxed set - specifically the Stonelands and Goblin Marches booklet. Nothing else yet on Hlundadim. I'll get to it one day.
-- George Krashos
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 04:23:44
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ok, I'm still working my way through it, but I wanted to see what some have seen so far and compare notes. Some of this may have been released in previous products, and if so maybe noting that will help us all lead somewhere. As always, the name of the game is speculation.
Firstly, I liked George's article on the fall of Narfell/Raumathar. From it, we learn a few things and have some definitions to correlate to future things.
Why thank you.
quote:
First, in -160 DR a "hortha" of Kostchtchie was summoned to the realms. From this, I gather that a "hortha" is something less than an avatar... because in -150 DR an "urhortha" or avatar of Kossuth was summoned.
Other definitions
Sarnar - year (plural years is Sarn)
Drith - summoned extraplanars (presumably demons)
Drithdarkar - presumably Narfellian conjurers of some sort (demonbinders most likely)
Dun-Orthass - another name for the citadel of conjurers
Yep, spot on pretty much. As another poster down the track noted, "hortha" was my term for an aspect while "urhortha" was for an avatar.
Can't see that anyone has picked up on a few of the 'easter eggs' I scattered through the piece.
quote:
From other areas, we discover that the demonic magic of the Nars was from Narathmault, which was formerly a holding of the Ilythiir (see -1015 dr, -9750 DR, -10000 DR and -10400 DR). It was Clan Sethomiir who traversed there, guided by the balor Wendonai. Narathmault is an underground fortress "Dark Pit" and its at the site of Dun-Tharos (which is where the nentyarch built his capital and forged the crown of Narfell). Note, that even before the dark elves arrived there, they recognized the area as an "area of great evil". Therefore, theoretically, something happened to the area before the Narfellians came along (and therefore, THEY didn't necessarily create the demoncysts).
"Place of great evil" was lorespeak for an evil node as showcased in Champions of Ruin. There's one at the site of the Citadel of Conjurers also. Well, at least in my Realms there is.
quote:
Another thing I find of interest, Larloch's enclave, Jiksidur, crashed in northern Narfell when Karsus cast his avatar spell. However, his warlock's crypt is actually his enemy's enclave of Orbedal. Therefore, before Narfell fell, there was a crashed netherese enclave within their domain (granted, this was in the last 190 years of their empire, but....). Also, conceivably, Larloch had some involvement with Narfell, otherwise his enclave wouldn't have been there?
Yes, very interesting that ... isn't it ...?
-- George Krashos
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 15:54:52
I know there were some mentions of Ammarindar. Whether they were new or not, I'm unsure. |
| Sian |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 19:22:51
is there any new mentions of Ammarindar in the GHotR? ... trying to fiddle all the infomations i have about the area down in an article-wannabe :p |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 05:37:36
I too thoroughly enjoyed all of the Shou references and tie-ins in the GHotR - perhaps some of my favorite bits.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'm not a big Shou fan, but I did find these entries about Giants in Grey and the impossible silver dome that come and go interesting. Not sure what they pertain to though. For some reason, it brings to mind spelljammer, but I don't know why.
The Giants in Grey sound similar to Earthsea Giants from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, which in turn became the Spacesea Giants in Spelljammer.
So yeah, I felt that the Giants in Grey had some sort of 'sky-fortress' somewhere and were watching over the people of Kara-Tu for whatever reason (Think The Watcher from Marvel Comics fame). They do not get involved - merely show up and record important events.
|
| TomCosta |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 02:50:27
Glad you liked the kobold/urd story. I enjoyed working it up. |
|
|
