| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 07:59:34
From Dragon 350
Legacy of the Ancients
by Eric L. Boyd
More planetouched races inhabit the forgotten realms than just aasimar, tieflings, and the elemental genasi. Four new planar-blooded races: the azerblood, celadrin, d'hin'ni, and worghest.
and from Dragon 349
The Horde, by Edward Bonny, Brian Cortijo, and Laszlo Koller - A massive fourteen-page article covers the Hordelands of the Forgotten Realms! It has an overview of the Endless Waste before covering the peoples that live in the Hordelands. A full-page map precedes the gazetteer of the area which takes up most of the article, before ending with 3.5 stats for the dzalmus dragon (a true dragon). Sidebars cover where to get more information on the Hordelands (the 2E supplement on WotC's website, and a web enhancement for this article on Paizo's site), as well as the Taangan and Tuigan people, two new regions FR characters can choose (the Endless Wastes and the Lake of Mists), a timeline of the Endless Wastes, Tuigan sayings and superstitions, and two new regional feats (Horse Nomad and Raumathar Heritor).
It has been a VERY long time since I bought 2 Dragons in a row |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 02:21:12
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
As for the article, I read it and it seemed interesting but it'll be something I doubt I'll ever use since as I said above, I keep the old tieflings/genasi except for the fey'ri. Otherwise, I don't need more tiefling/genasi variants.
I agree. I liked the article and enjoyed the variants, but I doubt I'd use them. I do like the basic genasi/tiefling/aasamir races though and have incorporated them to some degree. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 20:59:52
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yes, it was much better when all adventuring parties contained much more common races and mainly encounted commonly found creatures in the Realms . . . like:
*snip*
Ok, point taken on that one. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 15:37:56
I agree with Rino actually. We had a few tieflings and genasi in the old lore and now with 3/3.5e there just seems a huge influx of them. I blame it on the current rules, since those races have been detailed in current material. Sigh I miss the days when tieflings and genesi could be descended from any humanoids and not every humanoid had their own race of tiefling variants or genasi variants. Sometimes a tiefling is just a tiefling, no matter what mortal race it is descended from.
Course, that's my Planescape lore talking there when we had tieflings that were still normal tieflings but were descended from elves, halflings, humans, etc. Now, in most current lore, standard tieflings are human only descended. Makes no sense to me. Same with the genasi.
Not ALL of those are adventurers either. So the adventurer argument is useful, but it's not always the case.
As for the article, I read it and it seemed interesting but it'll be something I doubt I'll ever use since as I said above, I keep the old tieflings/genasi except for the fey'ri. Otherwise, I don't need more tiefling/genasi variants. |
| Trace_Coburn |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 12:25:15
quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I hate to come off as a sour-faced dissenter, but I think the rarer planetouched are in the Realms, the better.
I agree with you...
I think it would be a wonder that there is anyone left in the Realms without a bit of outsider or dragon blood in them...there you go, a new evil organization...a misguided group dedicated to keeping all the races pure 
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
We have had a lot of "standard" adventuring parties in the books, and we have had a lot of exotic characters as well. I think we may have seen a few more planetouched featured in Realms fiction in 3rd edition since they were called out more, but at the same time, I don't think that's really a problem. The novels really aren't a cross section of what is normal in the Realms.
Heck, from what Ed has said, if we followed the "average" adventuring party in the Realms, either they would die a few chapters into the book, or they would manage to survive their first adventure and be so terrified by the experience that they would retire thereafter.
I have to say that to a certain degree, I'm inclined to agree with both sides of this discussion: using exotic races is something of a fad in the literature/game, and if it isn't a cliché by now it's certainly getting a little tired. (For all that I've fallen into that trap myself, thanks to George Krashos' Impiltur article!  )
That said, I have to lean towards KEJR's interpretation. From things Ed Greenwood has said here and impressions I've gathered through my reading, I get the distinct feeling that the adventurer 'community' tends to be something of a meritocratic association of iconoclasts and freaks of all stripes: they're generally people who feel that they don't fit in anywhere else, so they make a living/home for themselves on the trails with whatever talents they possess. Thus, the relative predominance of planetouched amongst adventurer ranks indicates not that they are common amongst 'regular' society, but rather the opposite - they are so rare and ill-received amongst 'straight' citizens that the adventurer's life is about the only place they can find a degree of real acceptance and feel 'at home'. Their seeming 'ubiquity' is artificial, an illusion - a simple function of our focus on the adventurer community and their own gravitation there-towards. 
Of course, YMMV. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 04:04:53
What's the big deal if my preferences are different than yours? Your sarcasm is also uncalled for.
Also, to be fair some of your examples missed my point (if fact, if you think I was saying "everyone has to be average", then you totally missed my point). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 03:22:23
Yes, it was much better when all adventuring parties contained much more common races and mainly encounted commonly found creatures in the Realms . . . like:
That party that had the Spellfire Wielder in . . . those are pretty common.
Or the one with the magically created human clone, the reptilian paladin from another reality, the halfling bard, and the Turmish Wizard.
Or the party with the dwarven king in exile, the barbarian, the halfling rogue, and the drow ranger.
Or how about the group with the half-elf moonblade wielder.
Or the group with the drow female wizard and the exiled Rashemi berserker.
Or the group with the Firbold ranger in it.
My point being that even in 1st and 2nd edition Realms literature, we saw a lot of "non-standard races" featuring pretty prominently, to the point where I think you could argue that its actually a VERY Realmsian tradition to have a few exotic species in an adventuring party.
We have had a lot of "standard" adventuring parties in the books, and he have had a lot of exotic characters as well. I think we may have seen a few more planetouched featured in Realms fiction in 3rd edition since they were called out more, but at the same time, I don't think that's really a problem. The novels really aren't a cross section of what is normal in the Realms.
Heck, from what Ed has said, if we followed the "average" adventuring party in the Realms, either they would die a few chapters into the book, or they would manage to survive their first adventure and be so terrified by the experience that they would retire thereafter. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 00:23:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Why? With a gazillion to one portals here, there, and everywhere, I think planetouched are a logical idea, and that while uncommon, they shouldn't be all that rare.
So where's the line drawn?
Reefy and Kalin basically said it--it's gotten to the point were these planetouched characters aren't at all "uncommon". It seems even the new novels all feature at least one token tiefling, aasimar, or genasi. It's as if a story would be more "boring" without them. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 22:25:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Why? With a gazillion to one portals here, there, and everywhere, I think planetouched are a logical idea, and that while uncommon, they shouldn't be all that rare. I'm curious to see why people would prefer to keep them rare...
I think it might be that they're fed up with the idea (real or imaginary) that every adventuring party has to be 'special', by containing a wacky mix of races (not to be confused with a mix of Waky Races ). I can accept that, to an extent at least, and I do think there are people out there who won't look at the (allegedly) 'boring' races from the PHB or to a lesser extent the slightly expanded selection, mostly by virtue of subraces, from the FRCS. Fortunately, my players almost always pick common races, more often than not human in fact, and have an ongoing bit of banter with the one player in my group who 'picks the weird stuff'. (He knows who he is, don't you Kaladorm? ) With this in mind, I don't really have any objection to expanded options, and I think the introduction of planetouched makes a lot of sense. I like them as races, though I don't see them as all that common. What I am concerned about is that there might end up being countless variations for every possible combination of being (think undead, Wooly I'm sure you know what I mean.) I've not read the article so can't comment on that, but I trust Eric to do a good job of anything he puts his hand to as far as the Realms is concerned. And I do agree with those who complain that we see a lot more of rarer races (in novels, as NPCs) for the 'coolness' factor. I suppose the arguments for this sort of boil down to whether you subscribe to the school of thought who thinks adventurers are the same as everybody else, but happen to fight monsters for a living, or whether you view them as special, above and beyond normal people. In the former case, expect most adventurers to be of the most popular race of the region, in the latter, a more eclectic mix could be expected. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 21:45:46
Why? With a gazillion to one portals here, there, and everywhere, I think planetouched are a logical idea, and that while uncommon, they shouldn't be all that rare. I'm curious to see why people would prefer to keep them rare... |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 21:10:48
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I hate to come off as a sour-faced dissenter, but I think the rarer planetouched are in the Realms, the better.
I agree with you...
I think it would be a wonder that there is anyone left in the Realms without a bit of outsider or dragon blood in them...there you go, a new evil organization...a misguided group dedicated to keeping all the races pure |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 20:58:54
I hate to come off as a sour-faced dissenter, but I think the rarer planetouched are in the Realms, the better. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 04:09:44
WARNING THE FOLLOWING POST HAS SPOILS FROM BLACKSTAFF AND THE LAST MYTHAL TRILOGY
Picked up 350 today
and while I liked alot of the stuff Eric came up with the, Celadrins background sort of left me dry. In my home campaign I think Ill probably change there background and tie them more to the newly returned City of Hope
A couple of ideas
1) Some of the Sharn from the city where Celadrin before they where transformed and now that the city of hope has been rebuilt theyve returned to their original form
The Celadrin of the City of Hope where the descendants of Cities Elven High Mages who under went the transformation the same transformation Aravin (See last Mythral trilogy) went through
Id change the favoured class from Bard to Sorcerer
2) A number of the Sharn where "Pre Drow elves" and if they took there originial form they'd be effected by the Seldarines spell and transformed into Drow. So Ellistrae and the Seldarine transformed the "Pre Drow" Sharn into Celadrin these Celdarin reflect those presented in Erics article except for their appearance, they have drow skin and white hair |
| VonRaventheDaring |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 05:57:31
Well subscription never came so i went out and bought it off the news stand. ~Curses in demonic tounge for a bit~ Any way i loved the Azerblood, and D'hin'ni i would have loved to see a Gnome planetouched though. But well i am partial to the small race of forgotten folk. i drool for more! |
| Dhomal |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 03:00:33
Hello-
Since discussion here has turned a bit to Dragon #350 and Eric's Planetouched article - I thought I would share a couple of thoughts since I just last night read this.
Eric - I am always amazed at your work. :) I am doubly-amazed when I can come up with something out of my own head - and it closely ties in with what others are thinking.
Specifically - I like the connection you gave Shaundakul to the D'Hin'Ni as one of the two primary gods venerated by them. The fact that you trace the D'Hin'Ni to the genies of the Calim Empire / Coramshan seems to seamlessly work in with my own thoughts about Shaundakul's emergence into the Realms via the same portals as said genies.
Thank you again for a great work such as this - with many more to come hopefully!
Dhomal
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 15:32:02
I personally liked them all... But then, I've been a fan of the plane-touched for a while.  |
| Sian |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 07:17:42
i must admit that the only one i like and think feel realmish is Azerblood ... the rest seems somewhat forced, as in, "we can't only make Azerblood ... we have to make some more" ... especially Dj'hin'ni seems forced |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 00:30:03
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Anyone managed to get a hold of Dragon 350 yet?
Yup, got it in the mail today. 
well get typing!
But if I did that, I'd not have time to read it! |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 23:58:52
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Anyone managed to get a hold of Dragon 350 yet?
Yup, got it in the mail today.
well get typing! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 23:54:35
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Anyone managed to get a hold of Dragon 350 yet?
Yup, got it in the mail today. |
| Archwizard |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 21:01:31
Still eagerly waiting for it in the mail. It was sent out last week, I should get it this week. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 09:22:10
Anyone managed to get a hold of Dragon 350 yet? |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 13:39:17
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
[as the side of Good has never been favoured as much as the side of Evil,
I wonder if the Book of Vile Darkness out sold its counterpart by a signficant amount.
I don't know, but I imagine it sold out by at least a small margin
The Book of Exalted Deeds had more info on the "good counterparts" of the Demon and Devil lords than any other TSR/WoTC source I'v seen so far (from 1E to 3E)...which tells me that the demand on info of "good" outer planar has never been that great compared to the "uber" monstrous foes that fiends are |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 21:57:17
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Not sure why you put this in this thread as I didn't write any of hese. I think I know who wrote the bestiary, but that's best left unguessed until we have the real preview (1 issue ahead).
--Eric
With FR stuff in each Dragon issue, maybe it's time to say to Erik, "Did you forget about that Dungeon-referred Unseen article" ? |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 21:49:19
quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
[as the side of Good has never been favoured as much as the side of Evil,
I wonder if the Book of Vile Darkness out sold its counterpart by a signficant amount. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 14:30:12
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
...and a famous monster from the much-loved Planescape setting...
Oooh! I like the sound of that.
Let the speculation begin!
as the side of Good has never been favoured as much as the side of Evil, and the fiends are being covered intensly lately, and it says "monster" (as in one monster, not a type), I vote for the Astral Dreadnaught |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 13:54:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
More FR goodness in Dragon 353 for Feb 2007
This month Dragon visits the Outer Planes of D&D, including an overview of the Elemental Princes of Good, a bestiary of Forgotten Realms outsiders , a survey of demiplanes and pocket dimensions, and the Ecology of the Keeper, and a famous monster from the much-loved Planescape setting. A new Erevis Cale Forgotten Realms short story, “Confession,” by Paul S. Kemp, rounds out the issue.
Not sure why you put this in this thread as I didn't write any of hese. I think I know who wrote the bestiary, but that's best left unguessed until we have the real preview (1 issue ahead).
--Eric |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 13:49:16
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth A new Erevis Cale Forgotten Realms short story, “Confession,” by Paul S. Kemp, rounds out the issue.
As an FYI: "Confession" is not a Cale story specifically, or a Realms story generally. It is a story set in a setting of my own. Sorry for the confusion.
Paul |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 12:07:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
...and a famous monster from the much-loved Planescape setting...
Oooh! I like the sound of that.
Let the speculation begin!
|
| Dargoth |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 09:04:09
More FR goodness in Dragon 353 for Feb 2007
This month Dragon visits the Outer Planes of D&D, including an overview of the Elemental Princes of Good, a bestiary of Forgotten Realms outsiders , a survey of demiplanes and pocket dimensions, and the Ecology of the Keeper, and a famous monster from the much-loved Planescape setting. A new Erevis Cale Forgotten Realms short story, “Confession,” by Paul S. Kemp, rounds out the issue.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 16:18:38
Well, considering that the Shadows worked -- ahem! -- from the shadows, I see them as being more in the background, making promises and aiming people in the right direction. I see them leading to the discovery of the Shadow Plane, influencing Lord Shadow to check it out, and maybe having something with why Shade was stuck there for so long...
I also see them as having been around for a lot longer than Netheril... Maybe it was Shadow influence that made the Ilythiiri to be so warlike and evil, and/or caused the banishment of all dark elves, not just the evil ones, and/or prompted the High Mages to cast the Killing Storm... They could have been why the Imaskari did some of the things they did; they could have influenced the opening of the Orcgate...
Similarly, the Vorlons could have been behind the formation of some of the earliest nations; Jhaamdath could have simply been where their influence was greatest.
There's a lot of potential, there. But we're threadjacking this topic. We should take it to PM. |
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