| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pure |
Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 10:32:58
as some may have seen i am looking to increase my knoweldge of the realms.(at the momnet i know only what is simmerler to greyhawk and the drizzt series) shouuld i learn through the source books or novels |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ode904 |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 18:44:28
Yeah, exactly . We must honor author's work. They create this world. Sourcebooks add more information for RPG products and for them who are interested. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 22:55:20
I agree with what ode said. It's good to read from a lot of different writers when reading about FR. I know a lot of people that just read the Drizzt series by RAS and they base everything they "think" they know on those novels.
I think sourcebooks should be used as background info for novels. The sourcebooks provide some basic info that allow you to read the novels without confusion or misunderstanding some Realmslore. |
| ode904 |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 22:46:53
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yes, ironically, the first three are more important for understanding what major events have happened recently in the Realms, but the last two books, while less important than the first three from a "explanatory" point of view, are, in my opinion, a much better read than the first three, especially Prince of Lies.
I'll agree with that. 
I'll second that also.
And, Faraer's comment about the general feeling of Prince of Lies is also something I could relate to. At times, the novels seemed also beyond what the Realms should be...
I agree with you three.
Some books can give you a lot different view. And depends a lot of the writer, what kind of view she/he is going to show us(im not here for arguing who is good author, so dont comment on that )
For example I started with Salvatore's first nine books. When I started reading Cunningham's books my 'view' changed too. And then the same thing happened with reading Greenwoods(and so on all writer's) books.
But that was a little out off topic.(But not off your converstation)
I recommend you to read first some books. From all writer's!!
Then when you have read enough(you can yourself imagine what's enough..) start to read the RPG books, like Villains Lorebook, Faiths and Pantheonss and so on.
AND
If you have something in your mind taht confuses you, you can ask from us, I think this forum was made for taht kinds of things. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:51:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, it's not only that belief that makes us think that of you.  
I had to go there before anyone else could!
::Shakes head::
"Never ever give them an opening... Isn't that what old Mournblade once said." 
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:48:15
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, Faraer's comment about the general feeling of Prince of Lies is also something I could relate to. At times, the novels seemed also beyond what the Realms should be...
Didn`t Elminster say in Elminsters Daughter that only fools believe that Faerun is a fair place?
Hehe...
It wouldn't be the first time somebody's thought me the fool for believing that... .
Oh, it's not only that belief that makes us think that of you.
I had to go there before anyone else could! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:19:21
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, Faraer's comment about the general feeling of Prince of Lies is also something I could relate to. At times, the novels seemed also beyond what the Realms should be...
Didn`t Elminster say in Elminsters Daughter that only fools believe that Faerun is a fair place?
Hehe...
It wouldn't be the first time somebody's thought me the fool for believing that... .
|
| khorne |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 18:38:44
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, Faraer's comment about the general feeling of Prince of Lies is also something I could relate to. At times, the novels seemed also beyond what the Realms should be...
Didn`t Elminster say in Elminsters Daughter that only fools believe that Faerun is a fair place? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 02:38:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yes, ironically, the first three are more important for understanding what major events have happened recently in the Realms, but the last two books, while less important than the first three from a "explanatory" point of view, are, in my opinion, a much better read than the first three, especially Prince of Lies.
I'll agree with that.
I'll second that also.
And, Faraer's comment about the general feeling of Prince of Lies is also something I could relate to. At times, the novels seemed also beyond what the Realms should be...
|
| Faraer |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 18:36:21
Some people read sourcebooks and get vivid, exciting images, others find them unengaging and need real-time fiction to see what a place is like. The sourcebook just isn't a mainstream medium that people are educated how to read; there are fantasy and SF authors with big binders of notes about their milieux that sadly stay unpublished because the medium is uncommercial. I find a combination of discursive and narrative material gives the best holographic picture.
Xysma, you did say 'even those scribes who didn't love the books the way I did usually agree that they are a great place to start' (my italics). I'm hesitant to recommend people not to read something, but I think it's a better use of time to read the summary of the Avatar trilogy in the Forgotten Realms Atlas than the novels.
Prince of Lies, while technically a good novel, never felt like the Realms to me but a different, harsher, more cynical place. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 18:26:32
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yes, ironically, the first three are more important for understanding what major events have happened recently in the Realms, but the last two books, while less important than the first three from a "explanatory" point of view, are, in my opinion, a much better read than the first three, especially Prince of Lies.
I agree, I liked the original trilogy, but I think it's importance is more similar to sourcebook material than a great novel series. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 17:59:30
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yes, ironically, the first three are more important for understanding what major events have happened recently in the Realms, but the last two books, while less important than the first three from a "explanatory" point of view, are, in my opinion, a much better read than the first three, especially Prince of Lies.
I'll agree with that. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 17:17:54
Yes, ironically, the first three are more important for understanding what major events have happened recently in the Realms, but the last two books, while less important than the first three from a "explanatory" point of view, are, in my opinion, a much better read than the first three, especially Prince of Lies. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 16:46:52
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There's no such consensus here, and there wasn't on the wizards.com novels board either. I'm with those who think they're a lousy introduction to the Realms.
I think you misunderstood me, I'm not suggesting that it paints a great picture of life in the Realms, Ed and Elaine's books do that. BUT, if you are new to the Realms and you want to understand the present day Realms, it is important that you read this series. You can't pick up Faiths and Pantheons without understanding the ToT, and FRCS is just as laden with references to the ToT. Also, I didn't imply a "consensus" of the forums, I simply said that other scribes agree, even if they did not like the series, which in my experience is an accurate statement:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
You have to READ the Avatar trilogy, but you don't have to LIKE it. Personally, that whole series of five books are my least favorite all-time FR books. However, I agree entirely that they need to be read (well, at least the first three, the last two are optional) to understand the modern Realms.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I didn't dislike the trilogy. I consider it required Realms reading, but it's not the best place to get a feel for the setting.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I do agree with Wooly in that the ToT, while not the most popular event in Realms history, is still "required" reading
quote:
Originally posted by Sandhrune
After that I read the Avatar trilogy I think that those are good ones to start with
quote:
Originally posted by Toedoe
I'd say start with The Avatar Trilogy first
I apologize if anyone felt I was trying to "speak for the forums," that was certainly not my intention.
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| SirUrza |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 03:28:46
It really depends on what edition you are talking about. Hands down the supplements of AD&D Forgotten Realms can definately teach you more about the Realms.
On the flip side, I haven't felt strongly about any of the 3E products for the Realms. Every supplement has left me feeling the Wizards is afraid to tell us how we should run the Realms. So 3E vs Novels, the Novels win out.
AD&D FR Supplement vs Novels is a hard choice for me.
Here's how I look at it. The Novels can be taken as Bardic lore, the supplements can be treated like the laws of physics. Might be right, but maybe not. ;)
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| Setepsutekh |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 17:54:54
Like Khorne I became interested in FR because a friend at school told me about Baldurs Gate which he lent me a copy of and my interest grew from there.
I think each media form (Sourcebook, Novel, PC/Console Game) has it's own point of view to offer on the realms.
Sourcebooks give you an overall picture of various parts of Faerun and it's prominent characters/features and hows the D&D rules operate in the realms.
Novels weave a story showing you the intricate nature of the world itself and how it's characters live and go about their lives (usually covering a quest or adventure that shapes the world around them).
PC/Console Games allow you the freedom of role-playing without worrying too much about the rules so you can just enjoy getting into character and adventuring/interacting with the world, also it combines the Sourcebook and Novel parts brilliantly in some cases bringing the world to life in some ways more than a game book or novel can on their own.
Still at the end of the day, nothing beats the power of your own imagination . |
| khorne |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 16:30:38
I got introduced to the realms(and D&D) by playing Baldurs Gate 2: Shadows of Amn. That`s also a good starting point, because there are books in the game that tell of many things that have happened in the realms. (One side effect of playing the game is that I am a Helm zealot) |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 23:35:00
For Crunch, especially 3E stuff... I really like Lost Empires of Faerun. It really put everything into perspective since it explained the beginnings of things and why certain things are the way they are. It didn't touch too much on Cormyr or Sembia or places like that, but those of use who love The People, it was a tome of great lore!
C-Fb |
| Sgain |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 22:44:11
I guess its a better idea to ask why your interested in the realms pure, as it pretty much affects what sort of product you'd be looking for.
For 'fluff' (that is background on places and characters) the novels are pretty good, as are some of the sourcebooks. These are great if you are interested in writing something Realms related, but not all that applicable to a game immediatly without you creating stuff on your own from the novel.
For 'crunch' (that is information on specific rules, NPC's stats, ect), then the Campaign book is a good source (it does have some fluff, but thankfully its not overdone), and the Player Guide to Faerun has character specific information that is very useful for creating PC's and NPC's for a game session or campaign. I also liked Lords of Darkness as it contained not only background information, but some nice hooks/maps/ideas that are pretty easy to convert into an adventure or campaign.
Of the novels its a toss up, some give great area descriptions and good backstory ideas, but seem to bend or break the actual rules of the game to keep their stories going. So its difficult to say if a novel is useful for gaming or not.
Hope this helps.
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| warlockco |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 19:21:10
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Steven
Who still thinks the best Realms supplements are those that provide 50% more lore than rules, but he's a wee bit biased there....
Speaking of such things, when you are gonna be rolling some new material before us
We miss your talent.
Thanks. 
NDAs prevent me from saying too much; hopefully I'll be able to say something soon....
SES
We wait with anticipation, but not much patience |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 17:59:39
quote:
NDAs prevent me from saying too much; hopefully I'll be able to say something soon....
Wow! This, alone, is a very good new!
The Realmish community became very happy every time that you stop a little your planar voyages and came to give us more lore, Mr Khelb... err... Steven
Yuri "Chosen of Moradin" Peixoto |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 15:12:14
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Steven
Who still thinks the best Realms supplements are those that provide 50% more lore than rules, but he's a wee bit biased there....
Speaking of such things, when you are gonna be rolling some new material before us
We miss your talent.
Thanks.
NDAs prevent me from saying too much; hopefully I'll be able to say something soon....
SES |
| warlockco |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 03:38:57
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Steven
Who still thinks the best Realms supplements are those that provide 50% more lore than rules, but he's a wee bit biased there....
Speaking of such things, when you are gonna be rolling some new material before us
We miss your talent. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 03:01:08
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Steven
Who still thinks the best Realms supplements are those that provide 50% more lore than rules, but he's a wee bit biased there...
You may just be, but I still completely agree with the first part of your statement .
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| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 02:44:34
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There's no such consensus here, and there wasn't on the wizards.com novels board either. I'm with those who think they're a lousy introduction to the Realms.
Echoes this. I hate that whole event. :)
As Faraer just said, there is no common belief here among the scribes of Candlekeep about the Avatar trilogy being a 'worthwhile' introduction to the Realms. My ideal choice for an introduction to FR has, and always will be, Spellfire.
However having said that, I do agree with Wooly in that the ToT, while not the most popular event in Realms history, is still "required" reading.
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| DDH_101 |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 02:20:04
If you want good sourcebooks with lore, go over to WotC and download The North, Lands of Intrigue, and the Villain's Lorebook for free. These are quite good sources of information and costs you absolutely nothing even if you feel they don't provide you with the knowledge you wanted. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 00:45:05
Speaking as someone who put 10 years of his life into TSR/WotC and the Realms, I'll say this:
The sourcebooks and the modules and the boxed sets and game books are all the facts and "nonfiction"/"hard info" on Abeir-Toril, Faerun, and all the lands in between.
The novels bring all that information to life (sometimes canonically, sometimes taking liberties).
If I were looking to introduce someone to the Realms, I'd toss them novels, as they're easier pills to digest, they provide a lot more "in the now" action, and they're only telling a story, not trying to teach you the history of the world/country/city.
Best suggestions for widest array of info--the short story anthologies.
Best suggestions for "truest feel for Realms"--any books by Cunningham, Greenwood, or Grubb (and Baker & Salvatore coming in close seconds)
After all, you'd not get people interested in spy thrillers or mysteries by making them read CIA factbooks and Phillip Agee's CIA DIARY, would you?
Steven
Who still thinks the best Realms supplements are those that provide 50% more lore than rules, but he's a wee bit biased there.... |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 00:34:54
I think the best novels to get a feel on the realms would have to be either Greenwoods (One would hope. ) Or possibly the Salvatore stuff. The Salvatore stuff for what just a small group can achieve. But then, if you want to get grandiose, just read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy... talk about screwing up the whole realms.
Just ignore the whole Takari part. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 23:56:01
I didn't dislike the trilogy. I consider it required Realms reading, but it's not the best place to get a feel for the setting. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 23:53:18
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There's no such consensus here, and there wasn't on the wizards.com novels board either. I'm with those who think they're a lousy introduction to the Realms.
Echoes this. I hate that whole event. :) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 22:46:09
There's no such consensus here, and there wasn't on the wizards.com novels board either. I'm with those who think they're a lousy introduction to the Realms. |
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