| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 20:49:21
The WotC third trimester catalog is apparently in hobby stores by now, so I no longer have to be secretive about the fact that I wrote The Shining South sourcebook, for release in October 2004. The topic originally came up in a thread in the novels forum, but I decided to bump it over here, where it's more pertinent.
Rad originally asked:
quote:
Thomas, how much coverage is there on Veldorn? Ive always been quite intrigued by it but very little information exists in previous FR products.
The quick answer is, about 3 pages. But it's part of a larger chapter that deals with the entire region known as the Shining Lands, which also includes Estagund, Var the Golden, and Durpar, and those three by necessity got more detailed examinations. Veldorn, quite simply, is one of those places that really needs 192 pages all on its own to cover everything that needs to be covered, and there just wasn't room to do more than a cursory examination of what's going on there.
Thomas |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 18 Jan 2005 : 00:43:38
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
If it was up to me, I'd say they found a route through the underdark to get there. That just seems to fit with the Imaskari.
Sorry Fletch, but I don't particularly like that suggestion  . The Imaskari have always been about the magic... I would think that Mr. Reid's suggestion of portal travel would be the more accurate.
But of course Sage, I did not say they did not use portals. They used portals to the underdark just under the city so as to not be detected and to ensure surprise as they swarmed up from beneath the city |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 17:46:00
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It's possible I suppose, as Hymn mentioned. However, considering such a brief amount of time, how much could the Imaskari have really influenced Durpar?
Here's how I would approach this. At some point long ago, the Imaskari empire at its heyday included what is the current-day Shining Lands (particularly Durpar, Estagund, and Var the Golden). At some point a little over 4,000 years ago, the people of the Shining Lands, seeking independence, erected the Gate of Iron. It occured about the same time that the Imaskari began to slide into oblivion because of their own slaves rebelling, etc. Perhaps there was some limited amount of contact between the Imaskari and the people of the Shining Lands, between the time the gate was erected and the end of the empire, but the marching of armies was effectively halted.
In -2488, when the Imaskari empire finally crumbled, it marked the end of cultural, political, and mercantile influence from the Imaskari people upon the people of the Golden Water region. Not too surprisingly, the Durpari were unable to maintain their own level of civilization, lost their way, and fell into barbarism.
Pattern it after the fall of Rome and the subsequent effects of the Dark Ages in Western Europe. The native peoples were subjects of the Roman Empire, but they rebelled and fought to be free. After Roman influence vanished from their lands, though, they fell into a period of cultural decline, and the decline happened rapidly, in the course of a quarter-century.
I'm sure there are some other conflicting points in there, but it's a start.
Thomas |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 07:50:01
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
Cool. Thanks for the link. I'm not sure what to tell you other than what I mentioned before. I guess it's still possible that the Imaskari exerted influence over Durpar for a brief time even after the Gate of Iron was built. Since the reference says the gate was built over 4,000 years ago, and the date of the fall is listed as -2488 (so nearly 3,900 years ago), maybe the sealing of the gate was the beginning of the end. And as they vanished, the Durpari lost the positive effects of their influence along with the negative.
It's possible I suppose, as Hymn mentioned. However, considering such a brief amount of time, how much could the Imaskari have really influenced Durpar?
|
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 06:45:46
quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Probably true, the information about the gate of iron can be found in the Hordes boxed set or here http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/imaskar.htm If you want to find out what the heck I am pestering you about 
Cool. Thanks for the link. I'm not sure what to tell you other than what I mentioned before. I guess it's still possible that the Imaskari exerted influence over Durpar for a brief time even after the Gate of Iron was built. Since the reference says the gate was built over 4,000 years ago, and the date of the fall is listed as -2488 (so nearly 3,900 years ago), maybe the sealing of the gate was the beginning of the end. And as they vanished, the Durpari lost the positive effects of their influence along with the negative.
quote:
Well I read the accessory from cover to cover now. Really nice work there Thomas I hope you are proud.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Thomas |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 08:51:22
quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
If it was up to me, I'd say they found a route through the underdark to get there. That just seems to fit with the Imaskari.
Sorry Fletch, but I don't particularly like that suggestion . The Imaskari have always been about the magic... I would think that Mr. Reid's suggestion of portal travel would be the more accurate.
|
| Hymn |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 17:35:10
Probably true, the information about the gate of iron can be found in the Hordes boxed set or here http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/imaskar.htm If you want to find out what the heck I am pestering you about Well I read the accessory from cover to cover now. Really nice work there Thomas I hope you are proud. |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 17:20:02
If it was up to me, I'd say they found a route through the underdark to get there. That just seems to fit with the Imaskari. |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 14:36:29
quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Since the only way to the Shining lands, that would be a narrow pass through the Dustwall, had been blocked by a magical iron gate in fact creating a dead magic zone. The lowlands where still covered in think jungles, so an army would have had a really hard time getting through there.
I'm not familiar with this information you cited, but I can tell you that the information from the timeline came from the original 2E product The Shining Lands, and I picked it up from there. Since it was just something that was mentioned in passing, I didn't go back to see what other sources might have said about the reach of the Imaskari, but it struck me as logical, because I could see the Imaskari controlling the area that is current-day Veldorn, too.
Regardless, if what you're saying is accurate, the Imaskari could very well have come up with some alternate means of traveling back and forth (portal, tunnel systems under the mountains, alternate passes through the mountains that have since been lost to earthquakes/rockslides, etc.). There are always ways for powerful empires to solve problems if they put their collective minds to them.
Thomas |
| Hymn |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 02:47:31
I just got this product this week as a delayed Christmas present. Yeah I know it is kind of late. First off I really like this product especially the "new" areas covered in more detail.
But I found some conflicting information regarding the history of the Shining lands, at least as I see it, where as it is stated
-2488 Imaskar falls. Left without guidance, the subject-states of Durpar and Gundavar fall into barbarism.
Since the only way to the Shining lands, that would be a narrow pass through the Dustwall, had been blocked by a magical iron gate in fact creating a dead magic zone. The lowlands where still covered in think jungles, so an army would have had a really hard time getting through there.
But then again it says in Races of Faerun that the Imaskari empire stretched as far south as the golden water, now if it is literally or just "to and not past" is another question. Then they might have just cut of a few mountain tops and airdrop the armies in  But somehow I feel this must have happened quiet early in their plan of expansion. Thus it gives two options, the Golden water was sealed of for the Raurinese or they found away to get their armies onto the other side of the Dustwall as they grew more powerful.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 15:39:10
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
This finally arrived the other day and all I can say is I'm damn impressed. Despite Thomas' over-generous "thanks", all I did was supply a bunch of "South" references which I see were incorporated into the general product pretty much seamlessly. The only (minor) gripe which has nothing to do with Thomas' work, is that there were more than a few place/people typos - especially on the maps. A minor quibble in the universal scheme of things. I especially liked the previously non-fleshed out Var, Estagund, et. al places which wre greatly expanded on and given Realms and historical context. The genesis of the "Land of Monsters" was genius. I liked this alot. Great job, Thomas. May WotC send more projects (and dead presidents) your way.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, the history of Veldorn was well done, and I liked the info on the Shining Lands.
I noticed some typos, as well, but only a few -- not nearly as bad as the Player's Guide to Faerūn. No new months, this time. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 12:48:35
This finally arrived the other day and all I can say is I'm damn impressed. Despite Thomas' over-generous "thanks", all I did was supply a bunch of "South" references which I see were incorporated into the general product pretty much seamlessly. The only (minor) gripe which has nothing to do with Thomas' work, is that there were more than a few place/people typos - especially on the maps. A minor quibble in the universal scheme of things. I especially liked the previously non-fleshed out Var, Estagund, et. al places which wre greatly expanded on and given Realms and historical context. The genesis of the "Land of Monsters" was genius. I liked this alot. Great job, Thomas. May WotC send more projects (and dead presidents) your way.
-- George Krashos
|
| nekrolog |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 20:08:03
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Thats interesting to hear. I haven't looked through Serpent Kingdoms for a while, which areas in particular did you think tied in well with Shining South and which do you think were lacking shared information?
Eric summed it up pretty well. The regional info in SS was stuff that a DM wouldn't mind his players knowing, and SK reveals it all to the DM in great detail.
The stuff that didn't jive was very small, and is explained by Eric's statement that the books have to stand on their own.
OT: wow, a lot of authors hang around here. I live near Seattle, and my roommate and a few friends are freelance writers. Anyone know Angel McCoy? |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 19:33:04
The geographical areas of tie-in include Azulduth (Lake of Salt), ruins of Lhespen, Ilimar, and of course the whole Mhair Jungles - Lapaliiya - Ormpur region.
--Eric |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 14:06:25
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Thats interesting to hear. I haven't looked through Serpent Kingdoms for a while, which areas in particular did you think tied in well with Shining South?
I was reading the Dambrath section last night and the Ilimar passages discussing the nagas and sarrukh were nice tie ins to SK. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 09:25:25
quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
Thanks for the reply Sage Reid !
Lord Rad, you reminded me of something with your novel/accessory book tie in question... I bought Serpent Kingdoms at about the same time I bought SS, and I thought that the two complemented each other very well. Almost to the point that they felt like companion books. There were a few minor points where they should have had shared information but didnt, but that was mostly small mechanical stuff (and therefore not important to me). In regards to regional and historical lore, they tied together so well that I can't open one without having the other on hand as well.
Thats interesting to hear. I haven't looked through Serpent Kingdoms for a while, which areas in particular did you think tied in well with Shining South and which do you think were lacking shared information? |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 07:46:36
According to the way the PGtF describes psionics working, I am more than comfortable with someone's belief reaching such a state that it creates a similiar "quasi weave" allowing them to cast some spells through the power of their belief.
It's by no means something Isee being all too common, or easy to achieve, in fact I would say a character would rarely be able to reach such a state of transcendental consciousness.
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The problem, as I see it, is that the cleric of the Adama doesn't have a "clerical stat block" to work from. What are his allowable alignments? From what domains may he choose? What is the favored weapon of his deity? What were your intended-yet-unspoken answers to these questions? Do they rely entirely on the aspect of the Adama selected as "patron?" If so, are these patrons only selectable from the five 'main' Adama aspects, or the entire pantheon? Does the inclusion of a deity expand the permissable alignments of her clerics (clerics of Selūne, for example, would be otherwise unable to become Hands of the Adama)?
Though the patron deity of the prestige class is listed as "The Adama," the truth of the matter is that the Adama is not a deity in and of itself. It is simply a way of life, a set of principles by which to live. Thus, you really have two choices. Most often, clerics of the faith will still venerate a specific deity (almost always one of the five main "aspects" with an appropriate alignment--LG or LN, as stated in the Requirements section of the entry) in addition to his belief in the tenets of the Adama. Alternatively, the cleric can be treated as a cleric with no patron deity (as described in the Player's Handbook).
This second option flies in the face of what's stated in the FRCS, I realize, and very few characters will start out that way (since most folks will want the added benefits of a selected patron deity when creating their cleric characters), but it would be, IMO, the truest or purest form of belief in the Adama.
Does that help?
Thomas
|
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 02:19:44
quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
Thanks for the reply Sage Reid !
Lord Rad, you reminded me of something with your novel/accessory book tie in question... I bought Serpent Kingdoms at about the same time I bought SS, and I thought that the two complemented each other very well. Almost to the point that they felt like companion books. There were a few minor points where they should have had shared information but didnt, but that was mostly small mechanical stuff (and therefore not important to me). In regards to regional and historical lore, they tied together so well that I can't open one without having the other on hand as well.
We tried to make them compatible but not dependent.
--Eric |
| nekrolog |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 01:05:15
Thanks for the reply Sage Reid !
Lord Rad, you reminded me of something with your novel/accessory book tie in question... I bought Serpent Kingdoms at about the same time I bought SS, and I thought that the two complemented each other very well. Almost to the point that they felt like companion books. There were a few minor points where they should have had shared information but didnt, but that was mostly small mechanical stuff (and therefore not important to me). In regards to regional and historical lore, they tied together so well that I can't open one without having the other on hand as well.
|
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 14:20:53
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The problem, as I see it, is that the cleric of the Adama doesn't have a "clerical stat block" to work from. What are his allowable alignments? From what domains may he choose? What is the favored weapon of his deity? What were your intended-yet-unspoken answers to these questions? Do they rely entirely on the aspect of the Adama selected as "patron?" If so, are these patrons only selectable from the five 'main' Adama aspects, or the entire pantheon? Does the inclusion of a deity expand the permissable alignments of her clerics (clerics of Selūne, for example, would be otherwise unable to become Hands of the Adama)?
Though the patron deity of the prestige class is listed as "The Adama," the truth of the matter is that the Adama is not a deity in and of itself. It is simply a way of life, a set of principles by which to live. Thus, you really have two choices. Most often, clerics of the faith will still venerate a specific deity (almost always one of the five main "aspects" with an appropriate alignment--LG or LN, as stated in the Requirements section of the entry) in addition to his belief in the tenets of the Adama. Alternatively, the cleric can be treated as a cleric with no patron deity (as described in the Player's Handbook).
This second option flies in the face of what's stated in the FRCS, I realize, and very few characters will start out that way (since most folks will want the added benefits of a selected patron deity when creating their cleric characters), but it would be, IMO, the truest or purest form of belief in the Adama.
Does that help?
Thomas |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 04:55:04
First off, let me see I'm quite impressed with how Shining South has turned out. From artwork to topic coverage, I'm very happy.
I am, however, left with a question. Being mechanics-minded on occasion, I find the definition of the Adama as a patron deity to be lacking. There are two prestige classes in the book dedicated to this world view, one of which is geared at attracting clerics (Hand of the Adama). The problem, as I see it, is that the cleric of the Adama doesn't have a "clerical stat block" to work from. What are his allowable alignments? From what domains may he choose? What is the favored weapon of his deity? All of these questions help define--statistically speaking--the various faiths in Faerūn, and are left unanswered by the book.
Since Thomas has been so kind with his time and energy here, I may as well ask: what were your intended-yet-unspoken answers to these questions? Do they rely entirely on the aspect of the Adama selected as "patron?" If so, are these patrons only selectable from the five 'main' Adama aspects, or the entire pantheon? Does the inclusion of a deity expand the permissable alignments of her clerics (clerics of Selūne, for example, would be otherwise unable to become Hands of the Adama)?
I'm only terribly curious. |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 03:18:58
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
What made WotC decide to put your resources into Shining South?
I have no idea what prompted them to put it next on the schedule. There is no tie-in with another product that I'm aware of.
quote:
Regardless, i'm very glad you were chosen - an excellent job
Thank you, Sir!
Thomas |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 03:17:09
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
[quote]Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
The Landrise was also surprisingly good, the write-up was quite eerie and made me look at it with a whole new light.
Yeah, I liked that, too. I derived the idea of the hanging coffins from a History Channel program I saw about a similar set-up in a mountainous region of China. Very bizarre and eerie, as you said.
Thomas |
| Thomas M. Reid |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 03:13:02
quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
I absolutely loved the regional chapter on Luiren... I've been waiting for years to read something in depth about the halfling homeland. It was my favorite chapter in the book, and you really did the little guys justice.
That's great to hear. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
quote:
I also wanted to ask about the Great Rift region. It seems to have been paid little attention comparitavely, specifically in the area of their culture and society. Was that just because they are so similar to shield dwarves, or because of space constraints? I did enjoy what did make it in about them.
Purely space constraints. I think we all know that just about every region covered in one of these sourcebooks could easily fill the entire book with fabulous detail, but it's just not practical. The Great Rift, in particular, needs more attention. It's been far too long since the old 2E FR product, Dwarves Deep, appeared. But the timing of an update, if one is to come, is for others to decide.
Thomas |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 25 Oct 2004 : 16:10:24
Thomas, just a quick question...
What made WotC decide to put your resources into Shining South? The reason I ask, is that sourcebooks have been known lately to tie in with novels (Windwalker and Unapproachable East, Serpent Kingdoms and Venom's Taste...), so why a sourcebook for the Shining South? Admittedly, the region has been sparsely covered before, only having (to my knowledge), Elaine Cunningham's Counsellors and Kings Trilogy and the old Shining South 2nd edition sourcebook (FR16).
..Unless theres some upcoming novel\trilogy you may know about set in the Shining South?
Regardless, i'm very glad you were chosen - an excellent job |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 22:07:36
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
I wish I could take some sort of credit for the art, but all I did was create the art order--the rest was expertly handled by the WotC art folks. But I'm very happy with it. One of my favorites is the image of Eartheart from inside the Great Rift. The artist took the time to actually duplicate what I had put on the map of the city, and it's an amazing job, exactly what I envisioned.
Thomas
That was another area I meant to mention, I noticed the close relation between the plan of Eartheart and the translation of it in the picture. Very well done indeed.
The Landrise was also surprisingly good, the write-up was quite eerie and made me look at it with a whole new light.
The geographical chapters of the book are stunning and I thank you greatly Thomas for putting so much detail and lore into the this. I hope all FR designers follow your lead with the quality of Shining South. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 02:12:05
quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
This is my first post on these forums, Kuje's logbook of Ed Greenwood's musings lured me over from the Wizards FR forums... I had NO idea what I was missing!
Welcome nekrolog and fine job Kuje.
quote:
Mr. Reid sir,
You know you've done a good job as a writer/designer if they start with sir. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 01:51:43
quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
This is my first post on these forums, Kuje's logbook of Ed Greenwood's musings lured me over from the Wizards FR forums... I had NO idea what I was missing!
YAY! I corrupted another one! My job for the day is done!  |
| nekrolog |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 00:46:51
This is my first post on these forums, Kuje's logbook of Ed Greenwood's musings lured me over from the Wizards FR forums... I had NO idea what I was missing!
Mr. Reid sir,
I absolutely loved the regional chapter on Luiren... I've been waiting for years to read something in depth about the halfling homeland. It was my favorite chapter in the book, and you really did the little guys justice.
I also wanted to ask about the Great Rift region. It seems to have been paid little attention comparitavely, specifically in the area of their culture and society. Was that just because they are so similar to shield dwarves, or because of space constraints? I did enjoy what did make it in about them. |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 19:16:02
My copy of Shinning South just arrived! Don't be worried if you don't hear from me for a while
Must assimilate knowledge |
| Neil |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 04:54:42
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I absolutely love the great sea corsair class.
I hope it sets a precedent that will be followed in many books of the FR to come.
Basically, they just give you a sidebar(half page or so) detailing how to alter an existing PRC to fit the niche this one would provide.
Good call. This way, instead of having half a dozen prestige classes in ever sourcebook, until the sheer mass of them choke me to death, it seems more effective to just slightly modify existing classes. I'm very pleased with what they've done in the book, and indeed with the entire book itself. First-rate work. |
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