| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Irennan |
Posted - 31 Jan 2015 : 23:10:53
As per title.
quote:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2299-On-Chris-Sims-and-Jennifer-Clarke-Wilkes-Layoffs#.VM1f9miG8go
I don't get it: they were already less than skeleton crew, 5e D&D was apparently a success, and they reduce their team even further? Wow, just wow...
This doesn't bode well for the Realms either  |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Feb 2015 : 05:33:04
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the writing has been on the wall for a while and WoTC has been distracting us all from it with smoke and mirrors and empty promises while it tries to get new support for its new idea.
Worst of all is as well as lying to everyone they have also lied to ed and the old guard to try and get them to unwittingly help with the distraction.
Shame on them. Down with WoTC
If you going to accuse someone of lying, you need to back it up. Give us some proof of your assertions, or tone down the attacks. 
Quite right Wooly, my bad, I sometimes (quite often it would seem)let my anger at WoTC get the better of me.
They are of course my own opinions and conclusions about WoTC's intent based upon WoTC's actions these past few years (cancelling Dungeon and Dragon magazine without refunds of subscription, cancelling Forging the Realms, Cancelling the Realms-L archive, saying they would restore the feel of the old realms then no campaign setting, firing several staff members of an already skeleton staff, farming out 2 adventures to subcontractors with what can only be described as the biggest lore gaff in realms history, etc). Of course I can provide no proof to back up my claims nor can anyone else because WoTC refuse to speak to us.
Maybe I am spoiled from the digital age when movie makers provide clips and trailers and announce the planning of films then announce when production has started, or when computer game makers provide previews, beta access, screen shots, developers diaries, and regular progress updates. Even paizo provides sneak previews at big releases. WoTC's complete lack of any information is frustrating to say the least.
Anyway, I will try my best to tone it down in future.
Fair enough.  |
| Irennan |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 21:08:20
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Let's look at it like this. Ed Greenwood is a freelancer. Steven Schend is a freelancer. Eric Boyd is a freelancer. George Krashos is a freelancer. Brian R. James is a freelancer. What's to say they wouldn't allow a significant number of these hardcore fans/writers to form a separate entity that they then go to and request new product updates from for the realms, take ideas for future products from, etc... Hell, given that I know some of these folks are working with Kobold press on some things AND that D&D is also working with kobold press, they might .... just as an example... have Kobold press outsource the realms to be published with both 5e, 3.5e, 4e and PF support (and in so doing they don't need to keep a team in house who is fluent in PF). Now, I'm not sure if that would be a good business decision on their part, but it might be a good decision for the setting itself (I'm not sure what I'd advocate). Main thing I'm saying, is you don't really know what's going on behind the scenes. I never knew all the crap that was going on during the era of TSR, and apparently there was huge infighting.
It sounds better put this way, but still we haven't seen anything encouraging from them despite all their awesome talking, and it is just frustrating, since the future of the (published, ofc) Realms is at stake. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 21:03:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the writing has been on the wall for a while and WoTC has been distracting us all from it with smoke and mirrors and empty promises while it tries to get new support for its new idea.
Worst of all is as well as lying to everyone they have also lied to ed and the old guard to try and get them to unwittingly help with the distraction.
Shame on them. Down with WoTC
If you going to accuse someone of lying, you need to back it up. Give us some proof of your assertions, or tone down the attacks.
Quite right Wooly, my bad, I sometimes (quite often it would seem)let my anger at WoTC get the better of me.
They are of course my own opinions and conclusions about WoTC's intent based upon WoTC's actions these past few years (cancelling Dungeon and Dragon magazine without refunds of subscription, cancelling Forging the Realms, Cancelling the Realms-L archive, saying they would restore the feel of the old realms then no campaign setting, firing several staff members of an already skeleton staff, farming out 2 adventures to subcontractors with what can only be described as the biggest lore gaff in realms history, etc). Of course I can provide no proof to back up my claims nor can anyone else because WoTC refuse to speak to us.
Maybe I am spoiled from the digital age when movie makers provide clips and trailers and announce the planning of films then announce when production has started, or when computer game makers provide previews, beta access, screen shots, developers diaries, and regular progress updates. Even paizo provides sneak previews at big releases. WoTC's complete lack of any information is frustrating to say the least.
Anyway, I will try my best to tone it down in future.
Down with WoTC |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 18:05:34
Let's look at it like this. Ed Greenwood is a freelancer. Steven Schend is a freelancer. Eric Boyd is a freelancer. George Krashos is a freelancer. Brian R. James is a freelancer. What's to say they wouldn't allow a significant number of these hardcore fans/writers to form a separate entity that they then go to and request new product updates from for the realms, take ideas for future products from, etc... Hell, given that I know some of these folks are working with Kobold press on some things AND that D&D is also working with kobold press, they might .... just as an example... have Kobold press outsource the realms to be published with both 5e, 3.5e, 4e and PF support (and in so doing they don't need to keep a team in house who is fluent in PF). Now, I'm not sure if that would be a good business decision on their part, but it might be a good decision for the setting itself (I'm not sure what I'd advocate). Main thing I'm saying, is you don't really know what's going on behind the scenes. I never knew all the crap that was going on during the era of TSR, and apparently there was huge infighting. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 14:49:55
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the writing has been on the wall for a while and WoTC has been distracting us all from it with smoke and mirrors and empty promises while it tries to get new support for its new idea.
Worst of all is as well as lying to everyone they have also lied to ed and the old guard to try and get them to unwittingly help with the distraction.
Shame on them. Down with WoTC
Yeah, dazzler. We get that you don't like WotC - we've known for quite a while now. So you don't need to remind us every time a thread like this comes up.
Libel is a different matter. We know people who work for WotC (and Paizo) visit this site, so if you're going to accuse someone of lying, as Wooly said, you'd better have incontrovertible evidence with sourced quotations and everything. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 14:32:14
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the writing has been on the wall for a while and WoTC has been distracting us all from it with smoke and mirrors and empty promises while it tries to get new support for its new idea.
Worst of all is as well as lying to everyone they have also lied to ed and the old guard to try and get them to unwittingly help with the distraction.
Shame on them. Down with WoTC
If you going to accuse someone of lying, you need to back it up. Give us some proof of your assertions, or tone down the attacks. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 11:55:47
I think the writing has been on the wall for a while and WoTC has been distracting us all from it with smoke and mirrors and empty promises while it tries to get new support for its new idea.
Worst of all is as well as lying to everyone they have also lied to ed and the old guard to try and get them to unwittingly help with the distraction.
Shame on them. Down with WoTC |
| Irennan |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 10:28:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
As per title.
quote:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2299-On-Chris-Sims-and-Jennifer-Clarke-Wilkes-Layoffs#.VM1f9miG8go
I don't get it: they were already less than skeleton crew, 5e D&D was apparently a success, and they reduce their team even further? Wow, just wow...
It takes a lot more folks to create an entirely new ruleset than it does to produce supplements to and adventures for that ruleset.
Once the house is built, you don't pay the construction crew to hang around.
I still don't get it. It's not like they had too many people, and I'd expect to see them hiring to keep building other aspects of the game, such as the settings, or expand it.
In the same article we have Paizo (that surely doesn't need to build new rulesets) hiring new people for an already substantial development team. Why can't WotC at least refrain from firing the handful of people currently working on D&D?
The only interpretation of this that I can think of is less and less RPG products coming from WotC.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
This doesn't bode well for the Realms either
I honestly don't see that it's going to impact the setting, since they've long relied on freelance work. Heck, Ed has never been an employee of TSR or WotC.
AFAIK they have always had in-house employees working alongside Ed to write each new FRCS and sourcebooks. However I -ofc- hope that you are right on this matter. |
| Rymac |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 06:42:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I honestly don't see that it's going to impact the setting, since they've long relied on freelance work. Heck, Ed has never been an employee of TSR or WotC.
If WotC were to to freelance the campaign setting, I would hope some of the NDAs would fall away, or at least loosen up. There would be troves of material for multiple sourcebooks if that were to occur. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 06:13:51
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
As per title.
quote:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2299-On-Chris-Sims-and-Jennifer-Clarke-Wilkes-Layoffs#.VM1f9miG8go
I don't get it: they were already less than skeleton crew, 5e D&D was apparently a success, and they reduce their team even further? Wow, just wow...
It takes a lot more folks to create an entirely new ruleset than it does to produce supplements to and adventures for that ruleset.
Once the house is built, you don't pay the construction crew to hang around.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
This doesn't bode well for the Realms either
I honestly don't see that it's going to impact the setting, since they've long relied on freelance work. Heck, Ed has never been an employee of TSR or WotC. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 06:11:47
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
But they won't farm out a campaign setting, or any significant lore or even rules supplement (which, tbh, I don't care for). They only farm out these new shiny adventures for their organized play thingy.
They've done it before. Look at Ravenloft. |
| august |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 04:43:16
I think there is the potential for them to farm out campaign settings. Margaret Weis has her own company and has expressed interest in developing Dragonlance products. Keith Baker seems to have his own team. I'm sure Ed would have little trouble getting a group together to flesh out a 5e campaign guide. I could see them letting select individuals who have a history with a setting develop and present setting products as freelancers, with Wotc having final edit/say over the final product. Wotc could limit their own costs/risk, let others develop the products with little to no money upfront, with developers getting their cut after production costs.
Not saying that is a great option, but right now I see that being the only possible avenue in which we could actually see settings products. Of course if they were really committed to supporting the settings, it seems rather odd that they've sat on Hickman's proposal for a new Dragonlance trilogy, and cut their FR novelists down to three. I think they've settled on some bizarre strategy of selling the "brand," rather than the game, not realizing that without a robust game there is no brand. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 02:52:41
But they won't farm out a campaign setting, or any significant lore or even rules supplement (which, tbh, I don't care for). They only farm out these new shiny adventures for their organized play thingy. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 02:50:27
I don't know if we need to worry yet. Catalyst Game Labs works on a mostly freelancer budget. They might start farming work out to contractors. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 02:50:05
I've seen many people speculating that WotC's concern is only to spend minimum resources and just keep the game afloat, because the brand (i.e licensing with tabletops, pc games, minis and so on) is what they're after to maximize their profit.
If it is true, well then screw that. I get that they're a corporate, they're out there to make money and yada yada, but they have MTG for that brand thingy and as their main source of income, I think that they could afford to sustain D&D on the decent profit that a well cured game and world settings would net them on the RPG market (since -according to them- ''5e was a resounding success'').
They are producing a RPG, they should have as target customers people who play said RPG, who enjoy their stories and setting, it would be sad to see the primary aspect of the game having less priority than ''brand'' and getting less love than it should in the name of what -at the end of the day- is greed.
I'm not even a Paizo fan, but in the article that I've linked, the contrast between them and WotC is just evident. Paizo aim to expand their game and settings and tries to get people involved and excited. WotC just stays silent (even after their promises, at least concerning FR), fires their already few employees, and offers a basically non-existent release schedule, and then leaks ''hints'' about stuff that maybe will come in freaking 2017... |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 02:30:04
I hear ya guys. I don't really know what to think anymore. I'm not seeing the grey box magic that was promised. Heh. Well, we did for a bit with the Forging the Realms, but that line apparently got the axe too.
I'd really like to know what direction the Realms is going. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 01:28:46
What I fear is that the FR will receive the same treatment that GH received in 3e. It would suck to see the setting reduced to a vague background for some random pseudo-RSE adventures, especially when Ed has already written much lore on the post-Sundering Realms, which is just waiting to be published. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 01 Feb 2015 : 00:08:16
And it's not even their standard Xmas firing season. Looks like outsourcing to other RPG companies is the dynamic at the moment. I don't think that augurs well for the Realms.
-- George Krashos |
| Irennan |
Posted - 31 Jan 2015 : 23:41:23
Idk how much money development projects require, but 2 salaries don't sound like much. Also, their publishing plan is so slow, so I doubt it. But that's just my 2 cents. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 31 Jan 2015 : 23:29:00
I wonder if budgets were reduced or if salaries were rolled into new development projects. |
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