| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| NetDiver |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 07:43:48
Hello everyone, my first post on the Candlekeep forums!
Very recently, I purchased quite a few Forgotten Realms hardback books for D&D 3.X from a local flea market. It was quite a complete set of D&D 3rd era Forgotten Realms books (see the list below). I've almost finished reading the 3.0 Campaign Setting book and I'm really interested in running a Forgotten Realms campaign. Now I got material to run Forgotten Realms games for best part of the next decade if I really wanted to and I'm trying to decide the best ruleset to use with the material I got.
The thing is, that I've newer played or DMed anything Dungeons & Dragons related beyond AD&D 2nd edition. I wasn't really interested in Forgotten Realms until very recently. What I'm looking is to get the most out of the material I've just bought for Forgotten Realms.
So I did some research and a few options presented themselves.
Get Pathfinder Core. The logical step as it's basically a refinement of the 3.5, it's in print and seems to be the hottest thing on the market at the moment. It's seems fairly compatible with the 3.X material. But how it fares with with Forgotten Realms flavor?
Get 3.5 Reprints of PHB, DMG & MM, or at least the PHB. With these back in print, they seem quite tempting if a little pricey. It seems they've included the latest errata with the reprints which is a bonus, but would I be better of with Pathfinder?
Save money and get 3.0/3.5 PHB, DMG & MM as used copies. Used copies are going really cheap on Amazon Market Place, Ebay, local game shops and flea markets. Not even sure If I really need the DMG and the MM because of the D20 system reference document. Or just use d20SPRD?
Get an alternative system, like Castles & Crusades, Blue Rose, True20, retroclones, etc.? Wait for D&D Next?
So I'm asking you Candlekeep members with which option, in your opinion, I'll get the most out of the material I have? If you have options outside what I listed, do tell me? I want to use the material in the FR books, the races, the classes, the feats, etc. It's worth mentioning that I'm not a newbie GM, I've run games for over ten years. Just not D&D 3.X or anything after that. My style of GMing is more freeform and narrative than number crunching. And I'm aware that d20 is on the crunchier side, but I'm confident that I can handle it. I rarely use grid, unless thing get really crazy and/or placement is really important.
So with these in mind, I'm inclined to go with the Player's Handbook 3.0/3.5 + d20SRD route. But nothing is set in stone and I'm open to all suggestions. Thanks in advance!
The list of books I got:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Underdark
Lost Empires of Faerūn
Shining South
Unapproachable East
Anauroch: Empire of Shade
City of Splendors: Waterdeep
Dragons of Faerūn
Champions of Ruin
Champions of Valor |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 20:45:57
Swords and Wizardry Complete from Frog God Games is my number one choice (along with the Crypts and Things Variant of S&W which might be even better than S&W!)
Castles and Crusades is a great choice for me, lots of lovely d20 mechanisms (ascending AC, addition to hits, clever little siege engine to resolve opposed tasks PC vs NPC) but enough leeway to wing a lot and make up stuff without getting bogged down with a lots of rules that can be interpreted in different ways.
of course with a hint of nostalgia I would prefer to run the Realms from the OGBS onwards using the 1E rules......
Am sure you will find a system that suits and is fun to play with
Cheers
Damian
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| SirUrza |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 02:55:34
Tome of Horrors Complete has many great and classic D&D monsters (or equivalents with different names) converted over to Pathfinder. It's rather hard to find because it was a very limited run and used are expensive, but the PDF of is still available I believe.
Tome of Horrors 1-3 are great if you stick with 3/3.5. Keep in mind Tome of Horrors 1 has 3 and 3.5 versions if you go this way. |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 00:49:51
I have ran 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder in the Realms. I've only ever played in the Realms. I do like the Pathfinder rule set but 3.5 is very very good. Really to me it comes down to two things if you care about prestige classes and which combat system you prefer for grappling/etc. Flavor seems to be about the same and at least to me there's little conversion needed. "Most", not all, monsters are in Pathfinder so if a 3.0 adventure says Orc you just ignore the stat block and use the Pathfinder Bestiary. For monsters that aren't in Pathfinder like Illithids, just use the stat blocks and convert on the fly. |
| Joebing |
Posted - 03 Jul 2013 : 23:43:20
I personally run 3.5 at home, using the 3.5 update material for all 3.0 FR books. I have also converted a lot of pre-3.0 material to 3.5 using the WotC Conversion Guide.
I looked at Pathfinder, and liked it, but it was out of my price range at the time, and for older material, I would have to do two conversions... |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 22:06:59
quote:
Originally posted by NetDiver
Well I have my first Forgotten Realms campaign going on at the moment. Well, it's not entirely mine as I'm not in the GM's seat. It's a co-op effort of sorts as my friend who bought the Pathfinder rulebook is running the sessions and I'm the one crafting the story. We wanted to get the game going as soon as possible, so we splited the effort to save time. One reads the background material and the other focuses on the rules. So far it has been really fun playing the various NPC's of the story with the running GM and the players have been enjoying themselves.
We've only played for four sessions so far, so I really can't say how well the system will eventually fit flavor of the Realms as the player characters start hitting higher levels. For now it feels fine, but we'll see how it goes.
That was actually the complaint the "2e faction" in our group had with PF in the FR setting - that while it fit just fine at lower levels, when we got north of 9th level it didn't feel right anymore.
Let me know how you find it as your campaign progresses! |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 22:04:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
We are actually switching to 2e very soon. I don't mind because I love figuring out new puzzles (new systems, the way things work, etc.) and it's clear that our DM likes 2e much more. In fact, anyone who has played 2e likes it more while anyone who has never played it is quite happy with the way Pathfinder runs. For what that's worth.
Is this just in your group? Because I've not seen such sentiments echoed elsewhere, and I'm someone that "grew up" in 2E.
When I say "anyone," I'm continuing to expand on my discussion of the issue in my group, not anyone who plays rpgs in a FR setting. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 21:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by Emma Drake
We are actually switching to 2e very soon. I don't mind because I love figuring out new puzzles (new systems, the way things work, etc.) and it's clear that our DM likes 2e much more. In fact, anyone who has played 2e likes it more while anyone who has never played it is quite happy with the way Pathfinder runs. For what that's worth.
Is this just in your group? Because I've not seen such sentiments echoed elsewhere, and I'm someone that "grew up" in 2E. |
| NetDiver |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 20:25:05
Well I have my first Forgotten Realms campaign going on at the moment. Well, it's not entirely mine as I'm not in the GM's seat. It's a co-op effort of sorts as my friend who bought the Pathfinder rulebook is running the sessions and I'm the one crafting the story. We wanted to get the game going as soon as possible, so we splited the effort to save time. One reads the background material and the other focuses on the rules. So far it has been really fun playing the various NPC's of the story with the running GM and the players have been enjoying themselves.
We've only played for four sessions so far, so I really can't say how well the system will eventually fit flavor of the Realms as the player characters start hitting higher levels. For now it feels fine, but we'll see how it goes. |
| Emma Drake |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 17:07:10
My campaign has been running the FR with the Pathfinder rules system for over 3 years.
I really enjoy the system and certainly have an attachment to it because it's the first system I ever played, but there are others in the group who gripe that it doesn't fit with the Forgotten Realms as well as 2e. Two of the biggest complaints are that magic functions differently (not as effectively in their eyes) and the multi-classing (dual-classing, etc) rules are quite different, making it particularly difficult to be good at more than one thing.
We are actually switching to 2e very soon. I don't mind because I love figuring out new puzzles (new systems, the way things work, etc.) and it's clear that our DM likes 2e much more. In fact, anyone who has played 2e likes it more while anyone who has never played it is quite happy with the way Pathfinder runs. For what that's worth. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 18 Mar 2013 : 19:10:15
quote:
Originally posted by NetDiver
@ Hawkins Thanks for these. They'll came handy because a fellow player in my group decided to pull the trigger and bought the Pathfinder Core rulebook last weekend. He gave me the permission to borrow it if the need would arise. I told him that I had a Forgotten Realms campaign in mind. So we decided to put together some generic one shot adventures to "get the feel" of the system with the group and then dwelve into Realms.
So it seems Pathfinder is the route that I'm going go forward after all 
Glad to be of help. Not that you need to use them, but be sure to check out the link to my character sheets in my signature as well. =) |
| NetDiver |
Posted - 18 Mar 2013 : 18:46:37
@ Hawkins Thanks for these. They'll came handy because a fellow player in my group decided to pull the trigger and bought the Pathfinder Core rulebook last weekend. He gave me the permission to borrow it if the need would arise. I told him that I had a Forgotten Realms campaign in mind. So we decided to put together some generic one shot adventures to "get the feel" of the system with the group and then dwelve into Realms.
So it seems Pathfinder is the route that I'm going go forward after all |
| coach |
Posted - 18 Mar 2013 : 16:52:51
Pathfinder
they took what was good about 3.5 and made it better |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 15 Mar 2013 : 02:32:21
quote:
Originally posted by NetDiver
@ Hawkins, Euranna, Wooly Rupert - Pathfinder is something I've flipped through at my local gaming store from time to time. I really like the visual design of the books (a funny thing to say about a roleplaying product) and it's something that I'll probably invest in at some point. But for now I'm going with d20SRD.
The Pathfinder rules (and not just the Core Rule Book and Bestiary) are available online for free both here and here, just in case you want to preview them before buying (whenever in the future that may be) or borrow stuff to integrate into the d20 SRD. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 15 Mar 2013 : 01:47:14
quote:
Originally posted by NetDiver
@ Diffan - Thanks for all the resources! The D&D Tools was news to me and it seemed a good tool along with d20SRD. I noticed that Wizards also had the 3.5 SRD as printer friendly text files. So I'll be able to get a "bare bones" PHB with the material I need for myself and players.
Happy to help. Yea, the D&D Tools is something I stumbled on a little while ago, which is odd since I've been running v3.5 for like 8 years now lol. Very excellent source that I use often while at work and making NPCs and Bad-guys (instead of, you know, actually working).
quote:
Originally posted by NetDiver
Anauroch of the The Empire of Shadow trilogy seemed like a fun and well constructed adventure at first glance and I spotted the two earlier books at my local gaming store upon visiting today. Which I do plan to get them and run the whole trilogy at some point for my players. At the moment I have quite a few ideas for adventures and need to work them out into something more coherent.
The 1st two are a lot of fun, despite the fact that the Spellplague happens regardless. But hey, my PCs didn't know that and we had the adventure and it was loads of fun. There isn't official errata for the supplements but someone at ENWorld did a write up of the conflicting rules and did a page about it. Might come handy for you.
quote:
Originally posted by NetDiver
As for 4E and D&D Next. I read the 4E quick start material and it seemed quite grid heavy on the combat front. Might be a common misconception that you have to use grid and tokens to have fun with the system. Personally I probably wouldn't run the rules as written, and would take more narrative approach. Otherwise the system seemed quite elegant. For D&D Next, I'll most like wait when Wizards get the actual books out and then see if the books have any use for me.
4E is pretty grid heavy, going so far as to change the spell descriptions to Squares instead of feet (but we've always done the feet to squares thing so it was no biggie) and there is a tactical focus that the overall game exhibits. So if grid based play isn't a feature to you liking then 4E is probably not the first place to start IMO. And I concur with waiting for D&D:Next, it's still changing with every packet released and can often been confusing changing stuff all the time at the table. I personally think the playtest has been fun, despite my initial anger of it's release. But I can't change the game to suite my needs if I don't tell them what those needs are, right?
[quote]Originally posted by NetDiver
So thanks to everyone for your advice. I'll go along with d20SRD and similar tools for the moment, run a few adventures, get to know the system a bit better. If I feel I need to make the leap to Pathfinder, D&D Next, other systems or even go back to 2nd edition, I'm set with available or soon to be available rules systems. I don't think there ever has been so much choice on the Dungeons & Dragons front than what we have now
A good choice and one that is still heavily supported even now. It's my default system to go to when I get tired of running 4E or SWSE (Star Wars Saga Edition). |
| NetDiver |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 22:36:51
@ Diffan - Thanks for all the resources! The D&D Tools was news to me and it seemed a good tool along with d20SRD. I noticed that Wizards also had the 3.5 SRD as printer friendly text files. So I'll be able to get a "bare bones" PHB with the material I need for myself and players.
Anauroch of the The Empire of Shadow trilogy seemed like a fun and well constructed adventure at first glance and I spotted the two earlier books at my local gaming store upon visiting today. Which I do plan to get them and run the whole trilogy at some point for my players. At the moment I have quite a few ideas for adventures and need to work them out into something more coherent.
As for 4E and D&D Next. I read the 4E quick start material and it seemed quite grid heavy on the combat front. Might be a common misconception that you have to use grid and tokens to have fun with the system. Personally I probably wouldn't run the rules as written, and would take more narrative approach. Otherwise the system seemed quite elegant. For D&D Next, I'll most like wait when Wizards get the actual books out and then see if the books have any use for me.
So thanks to everyone for your advice. I'll go along with d20SRD and similar tools for the moment, run a few adventures, get to know the system a bit better. If I feel I need to make the leap to Pathfinder, D&D Next, other systems or even go back to 2nd edition, I'm set with available or soon to be available rules systems. I don't think there ever has been so much choice on the Dungeons & Dragons front than what we have now |
| NetDiver |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 20:03:01
Thanks for quick replies, everyone!
@ farinal - The guy selling the books was asking around 12-16 euros per book, but I haggled the whole lot and a copy of localized 5th edition Strombringer for 100 euros. So it was a bargain considering the prices some of these books are now at second hand online market . I asked if the guy had roleplayed before and why he was selling his collection. He said he had done some roleplaying in the past but given up the hobby due to life getting in the way. He'd kept collecting the Forgotten Realms books just because he enjoyed reading them, but now he was basically dumping most of his bookshelf on the flea market due to forthcoming house move. He was really happy that I bought the bundle off his hands. I consider this to be quite a rare find as roleplaying books in general are rare in flea markets at least in here Helsinki.
@ Jeremy Grenemyer - About Underdark. I've flipped through the book and read parts of it. It really feels almost like a companion to the Campaign Setting book. I do intend to make full use of Underdark as I find it to be one of the most interesting aspects of Forgotten Realms. I read Jeff Long's novel The Descent long ago and found parts of it to be really inspirational for Underdark and how I would depict it to the players. Of course Underdark is more than that.
@ Dalor Darden - I considered the possibly going with 2nd ed at first and I still do since the reprints are coming. But honestly I haven't played or DMed AD&D 2nd edition for over eight years, so I think I could give a shot with something more recent. I'll probably get the reprints anyway at some point because I don't have my original books anymore. Just for nostalgia
@ Hawkins, Euranna, Wooly Rupert - Pathfinder is something I've flipped through at my local gaming store from time to time. I really like the visual design of the books (a funny thing to say about a roleplaying product) and it's something that I'll probably invest in at some point. But for now I'm going with d20SRD. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 03:17:08
My vote is for Pathfinder as well, just because it is so close to 3.x, but better. The quick-and-dirty algorithms to determine Combat Maneuver Bonus (Grapple) and Combat Maneuver Defense (Grapple + Touch AC) are pretty easy. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 02:01:13
If you are familiar with 2e, just run a 2e game.
If you are worried that folks won't have the books...well, they are coming out again soon!
2e is a solid game system. The only conflicts you are going to have is with mechanics...and with the simplicity of 2e that won't be hard.
Just my opinion of "go with what you know"  |
| Euranna |
Posted - 14 Mar 2013 : 01:34:28
I am going to add my 2 cents for Pathfinder. It is really D&D 3.75. Somethings I prefered in 3.X, but the logic and ease of Pathfinder is nice. It is not too hard to run or play using these rules regardless the setting. |
| farinal |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 21:52:56
How much did you pay for the books at the flea market? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 18:59:23
I prefer Pathfinder over 3.x, myself, though I do like the 3.x...
But, that said, 3.x Realms material was developed for the 3.x ruleset. Since you've never played, I'd recommend using the 3.x rules, because it saves you having to convert everything.
As others have pointed out, it's not hard to legally get those rules on the cheap, which is another factor in favor of 3.x. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 17:15:59
First, welcome to Candlekeep! I hope you enjoy your stay here.
Second, I think those purchases are some of the best supplements from Forgotten Realms 3E collection. They hold a lot of useful informatino, mechanical good-ness, and should help you in crafting some excelleng Realms games. One book in particular on your list, Anauroch: Empire of Shade, is something I've been wanting to get for a long while now but I can't seem to find it under $55.00 on Amazon and Ebay. So if you got it cheaper, congrats! It's also the 3rd book in a super-adventure for the Forgotten Realms, the first two being Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave and Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land. I've played as a character in one and ran the other as a DM and both were great fun, filled with a lot of what I think makes the Realms one of the best settings for D&D.
As to your question, I don't think you have to purchase anything just yet. 90% of the core rule books for v3.5 can be found on the D20 SRD site. I've found this site D&D Tools an excellent site for pretty much anything non-Core (ie, not in the PHB, DMG, or MM). It has a good portion of the various supplements (including FR material) for rules and references. Might come in handy.
The same sort of support of Pathfinder can be found on Paizo's own run OGL site called Pathfinder_OGC which pretty much mirrors the d20 SRD site but with 3rd Party Publication included. Now the compatability between the FR material you've purchased and the Pathfinder material isn't a 100% match as there are things that will be off, espically things like Monsters or NPCs. But it's not that hard to see where the variations are and adjust accordingly (we did it when we made a Pathfinder campaign using v3.5 editoin).
Outside the mechanics framework, the FR material is still useful and helpful in creating Realm campaigns using other editions (I use them for 4E all the time) as well as different games like GURPS. So don't make the mistake of thinking that the material is only useful for a specific rule-set. By the way, and because I mentioned it, rules for How to Play 4E, creating quick characters as well as using pre-generated characters can be found HERE along with two free adventures (Keep on the Shadowfell and Khyber's Harvest). The first one has a Forgotten Realms conversion while the second one is designed for Eberron setting (which can be modified to fit FR with a few changes to area and perhaps deities). So if you want to try multiple editions and variations, these are all decent options to look at.
Lastly is D&D:Next. Currently it's in the Playtest stage (which you can check out in the last link I posted). The game is still pretty far away from being complete but it does do things a bit differently than the previous edition (as well as having it's own quirks and changes to the rules). It's not finished yet and they're constantly changing things from packet to packet, which might become frustrating to a DM that enjoys consistancy. My advice is to read it over and see if the game fits with how you want to run D&D. It's not really better or worse, just different (much like any version of D&D) though it might suite one particular playstyle over another. I seem to like it's simplicity, not overly war-gamish like 4E tends to get but also not filled with a ton of small rules to memorize like 3E. It has a certain Old School edge that many find appealing plus there isn't a expectancy of Magical Items build into the system's math (another problem that 3E and 4E tend to run into). Additionally, D&D:Next has diverged itself them the Grid-based play, something you specifically mentioned so that might hold an appeal for you. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 16:21:07
I'd suggest purchasing used copies of the 3.5 core rulebooks to save money and running a few months worth of adventures under those rules, in order to get the hang of the rules, learn the subtle (and not so subtle) differences between 3.0 and 3.5 (which you'll see in some of your newly-purchased Realms books) and thus decide what house rules, if any, you wish to implement.
Since you're an experienced GM, I figure you'll get the hang of things and so you ought to be able to purchase Pathfinder material at some point.
I say this not having ever played or run Pathfinder rules, though I'm very impressed with their adventure material and design so I feel comfortable recommending it.
That, and I've had lots of fun as a GM with using third party D20 material in my Realms games, so I think any inclusion of outside material is a benefit.
Best of luck and I hope you send your party into the Underdark. That's one of my favorites of the books you purchased, by the way. |
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