| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Branimir |
Posted - 05 Jun 2012 : 08:44:24
What are the Pros and Cons?
So, I recently got the v3.5 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide and I've been learning how to make a character. I've never actually played D&D, but I've been playing the FR video games since forever and played through all of them and researched a lot of the world on the forgottenrealms.wikia. I've played (and hosted) other PnP RPGs (started a couple years ago), but I haven't found any groups who do D&D so I decided to learn it all myself and try to host one. Now, I know there's a v4, but it doesn't have Lathander which happens to be the only deity I use. My research indicates that the games take place (in order) Icewind Dale was in 1281DR, Icewind Dale 2 is 29 years later in 1310DR, and 47 years later D&D v1 Campaign takes place in 1357DR, D&D v2 Campaign is 10 years later in 1367DR, Baldur's Gate was placed a year later in 1368DR and BG2 in 1369DR, and v3/v3.5 Campaign in 1372DR along with NWN, NWN2 being in 1374. However v4 Campaign takes place a whole 107 years later in 1479DR. So my plan was to play v3.5 with my Lathander worshipping NWN2 quarter-orc barbarian (played as half-orc in NWN2 and v3.5) but when I realized that v4 gets rid of the -2 to Intelligence, it made me reconsider... I mean sure I can just take out the reduction to Int as a house rule, and I'm already considering a house rule for quarter-orcs to be +1 Str and -1 Cha, but v4 might have other important improvements. For example; NWN2 has Aasimar's and Tiefling's but D&D v3.5 does not. Does v4 have them? I'm the type of person who is generally insistent on using only the newest version of things I only refused this time because of the lack of Lathander. I would only play v4 D&D if it were possible to play the V3 Campaign. Is that possible? If so, could I play v1 and v2 Campaigns? Are there other campaigns or can I make up my own set at different points in time? I'm not sure whether campaigns need a specific set of rules or can be played on different rule sets. What do you think I should do? Get v4 and forget about v3.5? Stick with it? Or do you think an earlier version is better?
P.S.
For the record the only PnP game I'm very familiar with is Bureau 13, where the GM invented all the missions unless he had a mission book which I don't (they're not really necessary in B13). But I've played a few others, like Fringeworthy, and I don't remember the names of the rest.
So, I just asked my dad what he knew about D&D campaigns so I'd have more information before I sent this. He use to play it 20-30 years ago or so, and was the one who got me interested in Baldur's Gate when I was a kid. I just realized that D&D is not simply a game based in Toril, but rather Forgotten Realms is a single campaign of many made for D&D. But that doesn't really change anything, as I'm only interested in FR. So now I know that other campaigns and custom campaigns can be played on D&D which means I can place my characters anywhere in the timeline, but I'm still unclear whether I can play the older FR campaigns in v4 or not. Still since I'm a person who likes to play the newest version of things, now that I know I can play games using Lathander by making my own campaigns during time periods where he is around I'd prefer v4, but my dad also said that the rumor amongst his D&D friends is that v4 D&D sucks. What is bad about v4? What is the best rule set and why? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Branimir |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 21:51:21
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinfoxx
And here is a list of the video games set in the Forgotten Realms, from 1998 on (I'm not listing expansion packs):
I know, I've been trying to get an OS9 emulator recently to play BG and BG2 again (the games that first introduced me to FR) but I haven't found one that works. Though I have been playing Pool of Radiance from a NES emulator. xP
None of those, as far as I know, are comparable to the multiplaying style of WoW like I was talking about.
Edit:
Extensive list of FRVGs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Forgotten_Realms_video_games
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
The only reason I mentioned WoW was to express the multiplay style, I don't think it should be based on WoW in any other way, I did not like WoW. Though I did play an iPhone game that was based on WoW, but unique enough to not get them sued, that I actually enjoyed. I can't remember the name at the moment though...
Anyway, there are much much better graphics engines than WoW, the best I've seen thoroughly (through playing the game a lot) would be FFXIII and Fallout 3. (both on PS3, though) The newer FF games might be better but I haven't played them yet. I would think, simply recreate Faerûn, throw in a bunch of NPCs in the cities but only for main characters, and enemies, and let the players pop in and populate the world. Allow to be any kind of intelligent creature, including full orcs, kobolds, dragons, so that the players create the quests for the other players on top of events they engineer themselves.
It would be more cool if it had features to allow players to chop down trees, build homes, dig underground/in mountain homes if you're a dwarf or something, mine for riches, blacksmithing, grow crops, reproduce (like the sims 3 has). And I'd prefer a game style where you get better in skills by actually training in them, like practicing sword making to get better at it, not just killing people/creatures to gain "experience" that leads to levels that gives points to put anywhere. (I've always had a bit of a problem with the experience systems unrealisticness.) And of course fighting with a specific weapon or type of magic would increase skill with it. All of these features I have seen in various games.
I've been saying for years that eventually most video games will have everything the sims has as a base to the variety of games we have. In other words eat and sleep to survive and the ability to reproduce, among other things to make the feel of the game more realistic. FR games have already accomplished a lot of this, you can blacksmith in NWN2, and there has always been fatigue.
As to avoid over populating the game with NPCs I would just have new players be the success to trying to get pregnant of a couple in the game (parents chosen at random, of which fits the new players desired race/ethnicity, from PC and NPCs, PCs getting priority) then the new player can design how they look, limited only to possible features of the race/ethnicity they chose. By ethnicity I mean Sun Elves VS Moon Elves and such.
I'm not a programmer unfortunately but I could come up with every possible feature and parameter to make a game like this functional and good in a sitting. I'm sure a lot of the people here would be good at that sort of thing.
As for staying to the FR story line, when an events date comes up that could be the points where the company starts their engineered events, the main characters (may or may not include the player in the various FR video games) could be NPCs, programmed to accomplish their goals, good or ill, and the players in the game can choose a side, or ignore it entirely, and let it turn out however it will turn out. There's always "multiple timelines" et cetera, so some variance is okay.
As for confusion, that's similar to reality, not everyone is going to know whats going on at every given time, you'll find out from being in the right place at the right time among the NPCS, or hear from other players, or you'll wake up with an army marching over your crops and run into town screaming your head off. I would prefer that, that way its not like everyone in the game drops everything all at once to work on the same thing, which is unrealistic in the real world. And if there wasn't enough people participating in the plot, due to lack of knowledge, empires could send out NPCs to look for recruits for their armies, and what not. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 14:48:41
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
I wish Forgotten Realms had its own rule set, that'd make this a lot easier x-x And how come there isn't an MMO for Forgotten Realms yet? It'd be way better than WoW. NWN2 multiplayer is too limited, and I never even got to play it outside of Single Play. I'd host a free server for them.
I'm sure people have attempted it (a specific FR game system that is), but when you get down to the actual mechanics it starts to look a LOT like Dungeosn and Dragons (being class-based and level-based). So one might just as well go with a highly published game system with lots of support. The best thing we can do is modifiy existing rulesets that work better for your gaming style.
For example, I really really want to get an E6 game off the ground using hte Forgotten Realms. E6, if you don't know, is regular 3rd Edition but caps at 6th level and you progress with feats afterwards to give a grittier, less-high fantasy magic feel. To me, this can easily be achieved within the Realms because those SUPER-EPIC guys get knocked down about a dozen pegs yet still remain pretty darn strong level/ability wise. Plus I like magic-light games so it works for me.
As far as MMOs go, I think the Realms is a great way for one to get started but I think it would lose a lot on the story elements of the setting and there would probably be TONS of confusion about events that happen in the game and whether or not that's considered Canon. I also think you have to get the "feel" right for a Forgotten Realms MMO. It shouldn't be so plot independant as WoW nor should the characters look as cartoon-ish from that game as well. Perhaps more like Guild Wars? I actually wouldn't mind a game-system like Mass Effect for the Realms. That game engine was pretty sweet and I don't see why you couldn't plug in wizard spells/ cleric spells/ martial maneuvers into the game as the system stands. |
| Gavinfoxx |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 05:34:05
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
I wish Forgotten Realms had its own rule set, that'd make this a lot easier x-x And how come there isn't an MMO for Forgotten Realms yet? It'd be way better than WoW. NWN2 multiplayer is too limited, and I never even got to play it outside of Single Play. I'd host a free server for them.
That's never been how D&D works... D&D has always been, 'here are the base rules, here are the settings that have some additional rules, that require the base ruleset to work.'
And here is a list of the video games set in the Forgotten Realms, from 1998 on (I'm not listing expansion packs):
Baldur's Gate
Icewind Dale
Baldur's Gate II
Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance
Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor
Icewind Dale II
Neverwinter Nights
Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance II
Demon Stone
Neverwinter Nights II
Dungeons and Dragons: Daggerdale |
| Branimir |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 23:45:33
I wish Forgotten Realms had its own rule set, that'd make this a lot easier x-x And how come there isn't an MMO for Forgotten Realms yet? It'd be way better than WoW. NWN2 multiplayer is too limited, and I never even got to play it outside of Single Play. I'd host a free server for them. |
| Gavinfoxx |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 21:44:32
Pathfinder rules are free online, and there are some 4e rules and some 3.5e rules free online if you know where to look, and the fan-made d20 game I really like, Rule of Cool's Legend, is also free online. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 18:04:43
Being a fan of all 3 (v3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E) I recommend ALL of them lol. 4E rules can be downloaded for free at the wizards site (just check the quick start rules) and it gives you 4-5 pre-generated characters to use. Additionally, the produced the cleric (templar), wizard (arcanist), fighter (weapon master), rogue (scoundrel), and warlord (marshal) classes with all the errata for free if you wanted to make your own characters.
Also, there's d20srd for v3.5 material as well as pfd20srd for Pathfinder.
You don't have to wait for another year and a half to play D&D. |
| idilippy |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 15:47:00
Also, Pathfinder can be entirely free to play if you don't want to invest in a system. Every single bit of rules they put out are released for free online. So every feat, spell, item, alternate rule, and(most awesome in my opinion) monster or NPC released for Pathfinder by Paizo is on the web for you to use. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 15:17:45
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright, I suppose I can wait. Real busy these days anyway. Thanks for the responses.
Or try 4E or Pathfinder... 4E is on the way out, but it'd get you playing. Pathfinder is still being supported, so that may be the way to go for a supported game system. |
| Branimir |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 04:51:19
Alright, I suppose I can wait. Real busy these days anyway. Thanks for the responses. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 14:03:55
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Has the new edition been released yet?
5E is prolly a couple years away. It's still being playtested.
I'd estimate at a early 2014 launch, depending on how much they have done compared to what they're putting out. There are some classes that they apparently haven't gotten right and just from the drastic changes from the 1st playtest Fighter to the 2nd playtest versions shows that they're listening and willing to chnage based on the feedback from the fans. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:52:51
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Has the new edition been released yet?
5E is prolly a couple years away. It's still being playtested. |
| Branimir |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:34:52
Has the new edition been released yet? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 20 Jul 2012 : 02:57:01
quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
4e on the other hand is vastly different to every edition of D&D prior and is more rough to convert, and most of it probably wont make it over to 5e.
Actually, it's really not as different when compared to 3E as a lot of people seem to believe. They kept a good portion of 3E's familiar structure (positive scaling for attacks and AC, 3 Saving Throws, Skills, Feats, Iconic spells, a rich and strong multiclassing/hybrid system to create unique characters, post-class achievements (in 3E they were called Prestige Classes, in 4E they're called Paragon Paths), multiple options on character classes and builds, etc.
Sure, how they implemented them in and when are pretty different but to say that it's vastly different from every other edition of the game is a bit exaggerated. As for conversion, I was able to convert nearly every single character I made in 3E (except the Swordsage, that one still eludes me). Really, it's not that hard.
Also, when I looked at the D&D:Next playtest I saw an abundance of 4E mechanics streaming their way into the new system. Advantage is clearly derived from Combat Advantage of 4E. Hit Die used as healing is easily seen as Healing Surges of 4E. At-Will spells (ie. Cantrips) are another 4E, and to a certain extent Pathfinder, mechanical design. Themes are yet again another 4E contribution as are how Backgrounds come to play in character's story. |
| Ozreth |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 23:44:24
TSR (Gary Gygax etc) made D&D in the mid 70s.
Ed Greenwood had been creating The Realms since before D&D came out.
D&D came out and Ed used the Realms to set his D&D game in.
Ed ended up writing articles about FR in Dragon magazine and TSR hired him.
The first Forgotten Realms box came out in 1987.
However, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, and Birthright were already settings for D&D. FR was the 4th setting to be introduced.
In the mid 90s TSR went bankrupt. WotC bought them out.
Now then, as far as FR lore is concerned you can of course use any of it with any game ever. Even non D&D games. It's just a setting or backdrop. I run 3.5 with the 2e FR boxed set. However, if you want to use all the stat blocks for items, monsters, etc you will have to stick with the same editions of realms and D&D or convert the material.
A lot of people here, and in general, will tell you to stick with 3.5 as it is wildly popular, available for free online and still similar enough to older D&D that if you wanted to convert material it wouldn't be too hard. Also, the newest edition that is coming out sometime next year will closely resemble a mix of 1st edition and 3rd edition. So if you play 3rd youll be more comfortable with how D&D as a whole feels. 4e on the other hand is vastly different to every edition of D&D prior and is more rough to convert, and most of it probably wont make it over to 5e.
Waiting for it to come out might see you waiting another year and a half. |
| Derulbaskul |
Posted - 01 Jul 2012 : 05:20:07
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus (snip) I generally do the same thing. Potions and magical healing feels different depending on it's source. A potion brewed by a Cleric of Shar will feel like the pain being numbed, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Lathander will reel refreshed and rejuvenated, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Kossuth will burn your throat and stomach like alcohol when you drink it, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Loviatar will feel like pins and needles, and so on. (snip)
That's seriously brilliant. I have never thought to do that but will now. Thanks for posting this! |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 23:35:42
Rule of Cool looks awesome. You forgot to mention, what a great cause. I will be burrowing into this later. Thanks for the heads-up, Gavinfoxx. |
| Gavinfoxx |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 21:57:28
I would use whichever setting and lore and timeframe you most prefer.
Here is how I look at things:
3.0e/3.5e: Best if you have lots of system mastery, and want the movers and shakers of the party and the world to be primarily spellcasters, with everyone else related to second fiddle
Pathfinder: Basically 3.55, a set of houserules for 3.5e, which can be easily found online without piracy. Use this with whatever 3.5e books you have, and just mine it for good ideas. Do NOT consider it a balance fix, consider it perhaps an 'ease of reference' fix.
Trailblazer: A small, fancy looking, commercially published in dead tree book that actually went pretty darn far --well, for a dead tree item-- in fixing 3.5e's endemic balance issues. I'd consider this 3.60, maybe.
Frank & K Tomes: A very fun read that helps you identify many of the problems with specific areas of 3.5e rules, as well as an interesting read into the economy of a setting that works under 3.5e rules, and some useful patches. Sadly incomplete. Maybe 3.65 if I had to give it a number.
Ruleofcool's Legend: Maybe this is either '3.75' or 'what 4e should have been'. This is, by far, my preferred form for D20-style roleplay. Completely balanced, very well written, fun to read, has versatile powers, and is free.
4e: A very solid miniatures tactical wargame with optional roleplaying bits. Balanced, but kinda bland, it does what it set out to do... but it sacrifices a lot of things which make characters --numerically-- interesting to do so. Probably the best miniatures wargame of the list, except maybe Legend, and only because Legend doesn't have all the extra options out yet.
5e Preview: This tries to get the feel of lots of older editions, and goes away from a tactical miniatures feel. However, from the rules we've seen, there is still the 3.5e/PF problem of casters overpowering noncasters, even if they did dramatically nerf the sorts of conditions wizard types could do -- but clerics are still seemingly able to do a fighters job and a cleric's job, like in 3.5e, which is an issue. Otherwise pretty streamlined and interesting, but I prefer Legend to this. |
| Branimir |
Posted - 14 Jun 2012 : 17:58:11
What are paragon paths?
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
[quote]Originally posted by Branimir
If you have any question regarding 4E or the Realms, don't hesitate to ask them. As for Diablo 3, I'm on the fence. I have two friends who are playing it and liking it alot but it doesn't have the Paladin class or Necromancer class, which saddens me greatly. I think i'll wait until something like them are released before I give it a try.
The Witch Doctor is the Necromancer, they're basically the same, he summons undead but can also summon other creatures like the Druid, and has poison skills and such like the necro. The Monk is like the Paladin, he uses the same auras, but he doesn't use heavy armor, he's all about speed and dodging and super martial arts skills rather than strength. And the Barbarian in D3 is much better, was kind of boring in D2, I also preferred the Paladin, but the Barbarian is a good alternative if you want a solid heavy armored melee character with good interesting skills. His Earthquake skill does 2000% dmg (but takes 3 minutes cool down) and he has various other skills for damage and buffs, and nice passive skills. The Necromancer was my first character in D2, I even designed my own build for it (I used my own lightly tweaked version of the hammerdin for paladins).
So far D3 is a fantastic improvement in every way but one, weapons and presumably armor are limited. My Necro build, G&G or God and Grim was a melee skeleton summoner, also poison nova. The only character I've played so far is the barbarian, and he cannot equip any ranged weapons at all. When I played Barbarians in D2 I always gave them a ranged weapon in their secondary weapons slot (they got rid of secondary weapons slots in D3) in case I get a runner or birds that stay at a distance or something because they can be annoying. That was one of my favorite things about D2, that I could equip any weapon and armor I wanted without having to have a skill or feat for it like in the FR games. Well, the birds and runners thing is still a big issue in Diablo 3, which is fine if I have a Demon Hunter in my party, but if I run into a horde of supped up birds in Nightmare Act 3 alone I'll never even see them on my screen because of the lag of my old (2009) computer and just die. The graphics are set as low as possible already, I need to upgrade to a quad core I think.
I'm on the fence about whether I should play a Monk or Witch Doctor next, or maybe the Wizard, they're pretty bad ass. I like that they have both genders too, so I can play as a male Wizard if I want to. Though I'm probably going to play through at least normal with every class and gender because the transition sequences and dialogue is unique for class and gender. The max level is 60 in D3 and easily attainable. At first I was upset that it didn't go higher for the same reason I'm always bothered when games have a level limitation, because it generally means your ability to get stronger is limited and I like getting more and more powerful in games until I'm godly. But in D3 you don't have stat or skill points, every level's stats are predetermined, but with the equipment selection you can boost stats in any direction tremendously, and find better and better equipment the higher you go, and by 60 you've unlocked all your skills and skill runes so you can make any build you want.
By level 60 you're on Inferno difficulty though, if 60 is maximum then that means all the equipment you find in Inferno you'll be able to use already, so there's no strive to get stronger to use the better equipment, only to find it. But considering how tough Inferno is supposed to be, and that I never find equipment I can't use anyway, I suppose it doesn't matter. I think equipment drop is programed to be within your level, like how the monsters level up every time you do. Its much more balanced that way, I gained levels just as fast from starting Nightmare at 30 as I did starting Normal at 1, in D2 you always saw a slow of leveling up even if the enemies were getting stronger. And excessively training to get more powerful, or rushing ahead without training at all makes little difference, which is nice. It's just as fun with smoother more enjoyable gameplay.
Edit: I just made it to Hell Difficulty at level 48, but it wont let me start it till I'm level 50.
Edit: If you play D3 let me know so we can team up. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 04:04:03
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
I may be able to get my dad to host a game in whatever version of D&D he played, either 1 or 2 or both. But how can I play a game without knowing the rules? Isn't character generation different and such? Will I need a different character for each version set to the specifications of that version?
Ok, Wizards of the Coast (apart of Hasbro) makes the Dungeons and Dragons system. This is the core elements of the game that is seen in almost every setting they produce. Wizards of the Coast also support multiple settings, such as the Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun, and the Nentir Vale (a new setting by Wizards). The core elements of Dungeons and Dragons is incorporated into each of these settings (much to a lot of people's anger). This is done to allow you to take any supplement you find witin that edition and apply it to your specific supported setting.
The Forgotten Realms, in particular, has specific elements of that setting such as Gods, Races, character options (like Feats and Paragon Paths) in addition to Realms-specific magical items. When you make a character for the Forgotten Realms using 4E, it's generally assumed that the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide and any Dragon-Magazine supplemnts for that setting would be available in addition to anything Genre-less (like the Player's Handbook 1, 2, and 3 and the Adventure's Vault 1 and 2 books). After you get a grip on the core rules and how to play aspects, you can then start to incorporate other setting stuff like Warforged (from Eberron) and the feats associated with their Dragonmarks, but this would probably be a DM decision.
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Diffan, I only care about Forgotten Realms, its the whole reason I'm looking at D&D. I suppose if I took the time to look into D&D I'd likely discover its pretty cool even without FR but I don't have the time to think about the extra stuff. You bring up a whole slew of new complicated factors to add to my equation… I have no concept of how the games run so, while I understand the words, I don't get the experience of difference between the benefits you've mentioned. Although it sounds like v4 is the easiest, which sounds good to me. Wait, baking? You can bake in this game? What good is baking to a medieval warrior? Do they need to eat?
Of course you can bake in the game, people gotta eat right  ? Though you don't have to spend character resources (like Skills or Feats) to accomplish stuff that's more background and customization of your history. Basically D&D is the rules engine you use when you make and play a character in the Forgotten Realms. You could use other systems but I think the D&D-ruleset is the easiest way to immerse yourself within the rules and setting. That being said, I would suggest playing 4E as it is a bit easier to get accustomed to, and I would encourage you to get the "Essentials" material for the game first and foremost, espically the Beginner Red Box set. It's an intro to character playing and the rules for 4E. If the DM is good, he'll be able to put a Forgotten Realms spin on the adventure to make it more Realms-ish.
After playing the game and getting accustomed to the rules, go onto Character creation using Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms books. Both are non-setting specific but lead you to races, character classes, and the building blocks for making a character.
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Anyway, I've decided I'm just going to learn v4. Its newer, and sounds easier, and I probably would have chosen to learn it anyway if I'd known it wasn't as restricted as I thought it was. And if I learn something to make me more interested in another version later I'll check it out. But I wont be able to learn v4 for awhile anyway, tons of work, and all free time (which will be nonexistent for at least a week) goes to Diablo 3. Which is a good game you might want to check out if you haven't already, better than NWN2 (which is my current favorite realms game, though if they remade the BG games with modern graphics and made them so they could run on my computer again then they'd be my favorite). If Diablo is finally dead in this game, I theorize that the next game might be a game called Sanctuary (the name of the planet they're on) and just be a game of the style of the previous ones based in their world, only more open hopefully, less linear, more like a FR game.
If you have any question regarding 4E or the Realms, don't hesitate to ask them. As for Diablo 3, I'm on the fence. I have two friends who are playing it and liking it alot but it doesn't have the Paladin class or Necromancer class, which saddens me greatly. I think i'll wait until something like them are released before I give it a try. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 21:11:33
Well, I don't think 5E is anywhere close to done, so if you're looking to play in a few months, by all means, learn 4E.
TSR published D&D, and at their high point, they also published a lot of different settings, allowing people to play D&D with their characters on a number of different game worlds -- or their own, homebrew settings. The Realms was one of many settings, and it's pretty much the only setting that remains in print. It's not the default setting, though -- a D&D game can be set anywhere. |
| Branimir |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 19:12:59
Ah, so this D&D Next / D&D v5 is coming out soon huh? Alright, I suppose I'll wait for that then, assuming it's coming out in the next few months. Even if I wont have the chance to play for a while I'd like to learn a rule set asap so I'll be able to play when the opportunity arrives. Though I suppose it wont be too hard to be patient with all the other stuff I have to do still. Aside from D3, I'm in the middle of playing through NWN2 again, and I never got the expansions for it so I might get those and see how it improves. I'm still very happy about NWN2, I didn't like NWN1 very much (it was ok) and IWD was somewhat lacking. I really liked DAO too, but that's not FR correct? Is DAO a D&D game based in a different realm? It has the same feel as the FR video games. I hope they come out with a new FRVG soon. Thank you everyone for your assistance.
Edit: So, TSR made D&D and FR? So does that mean FR really is the official campaign for D&D? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 16:37:39
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Anyway, I've decided I'm just going to learn v4. Its newer, and sounds easier, and I probably would have chosen to learn it anyway if I'd known it wasn't as restricted as I thought it was. And if I learn something to make me more interested in another version later I'll check it out. But I wont be able to learn v4 for awhile anyway, tons of work, and all free time (which will be nonexistent for at least a week) goes to Diablo 3. Which is a good game you might want to check out if you haven't already, better than NWN2 (which is my current favorite realms game, though if they remade the BG games with modern graphics and made them so they could run on my computer again then they'd be my favorite). If Diablo is finally dead in this game, I theorize that the next game might be a game called Sanctuary (the name of the planet they're on) and just be a game of the style of the previous ones based in their world, only more open hopefully, less linear, more like a FR game.
If you're not going to be gaming for a while, you might wait for 5E to come out. It's currently in open playtesting. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 16:36:38
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
TSR published the D&D and the Realms in the 80s and 90s, then it went bankrupt and Wizards of the Coast (WotC) bought the D&D brand and its affiliated brands came with it. Wizards of the Coast developed and published D&D 3e. Wizards of the Coast also created Paizo as a separate company (IIRC) to publish the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so it focus on making books (Realms and other material) for the D&D brand. In 2007, D&D 3.5 was released. Then, in 2007, WotC relinquished the rights to the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so they could start publishing them in-house again as electronic magazines and announced the advent of D&D 4th edition (along with all of its changes). A large number of D&D 3.5 fans were upset at this and Paizo (now looking for a new product line) recognized this and began developing the Pathfinder RPG (PFRPG) under the Open Game License, which is essentially another rule revision D&D 3.5 (so, still very compatible with the Realms). In the past year, the upstart PFRPG took the place as the most sold RPG from D&D 4e. Then, come the new year, WotC announced that they are developing D&D Next, a new rules set of D&D, which in their hopes will draw back players of all editions of D&D. Earlier this month (or late last month), the first open playtest of said rules was made available.
Actually, Paizo was founded by former WotC members. I don't believe WotC had any direct input on the creation of the company. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 15:53:21
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
TSR published the D&D and the Realms in the 80s and 90s, then it went bankrupt and Wizards of the Coast (WotC) bought the D&D brand and its affiliated brands came with it. Wizards of the Coast developed and published D&D 3e. Wizards of the Coast also created Paizo as a separate company (IIRC) to publish the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so it focus on making books (Realms and other material) for the D&D brand. In 2004, D&D 3.5 was released. Then, in 2007, WotC relinquished the rights to the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so they could start publishing them in-house again as electronic magazines and announced the advent of D&D 4th edition (along with all of its changes). A large number of D&D 3.5 fans were upset at this and Paizo (now looking for a new product line) recognized this and began developing the Pathfinder RPG (PFRPG) under the Open Game License, which is essentially another rule revision D&D 3.5 (so, still very compatible with the Realms). In the past year, the upstart PFRPG took the place as the most sold RPG from D&D 4e. Then, come the new year, WotC announced that they are developing D&D Next, a new rules set of D&D, which in their hopes will draw back players of all editions of D&D. Earlier this month (or late last month), the first open playtest of said rules was made available. |
| Branimir |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 15:16:10
Sorry it took so long to reply, there were so many messages to reply to, and I wanted to get them all, so it was a while before I had the time. So in order from my last post:
Dalor Darden, thank you! I'm not sure why I didn't think of that. >.< That was one of the Forgotten Realms books I got. I guess I just thought it was stories more than a rule set for how to play as the race.
Fellfire, I've never even seen a hobby store? I've always hated shopping, I've shopped online for everything my entire life. Aside from food of course. I'm not sure how to meet local people for games like that.
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
I may be able to get my dad to host a game in whatever version of D&D he played, either 1 or 2 or both. But how can I play a game without knowing the rules? Isn't character generation different and such? Will I need a different character for each version set to the specifications of that version?
Diffan, I only care about Forgotten Realms, its the whole reason I'm looking at D&D. I suppose if I took the time to look into D&D I'd likely discover its pretty cool even without FR but I don't have the time to think about the extra stuff. You bring up a whole slew of new complicated factors to add to my equation… I have no concept of how the games run so, while I understand the words, I don't get the experience of difference between the benefits you've mentioned. Although it sounds like v4 is the easiest, which sounds good to me. Wait, baking? You can bake in this game? What good is baking to a medieval warrior? Do they need to eat?
Dalor Darden, I never played the old ones so they don't have sentimental appeal for me… And since I'm making my first character anyway it makes no difference what system I make it on. That answers a question though, now I know that the characters are definitely different from game to game, enforcing my desire to only bother with one system at least for starters…
As for the uniqueness of items, I remember that from BG. It was cool, but I like how it is now too. It makes sense, its more realistic. In reality there are some unique amazing weapons, a lot of just general weapons made by amateurs (or a manufacturing line) and some that are just slightly better quality, and slightly better than that, and so on. Some of them might have a unique history, and some might not. And that's pretty much how it is now in the game. I've seen weapons in NWN2 that are +2 nothing special, and ones with a unique name and history, and they're also just +2 with nothing making them any greater than the non-unique other than the history. (and of course there are tons of unique items that give other bonuses too) It doesn't make sense that every single thing would be unique, because a lot of regular local blacksmiths make weapons too and some are better than others and such but there's nothing special about the weapons and armor they make.
And I think I was taught that the whole +1 or +2 thing referred to magical enhancement, but honestly I don't even look at it like that anymore. Because in reality not every weapon of the same type is going to be exactly the same quality and strength. So I see it as some might be from magical enhancement but some might just be slightly better swords. Honestly I think they need an entirely better system for determining weapon strength and damage, like in Diablo a weapon would just do like 20-30 damage give or take, but a crude version could do 2-15 or 1-17 or 3-17, and a superior version might do 25-35 and have a higher durability as well. And then magic is a separate thing, magic enhancements being applied on top of the individual weapons statistics. I think they should do something like that, of course it would still have to be a dice roll to determine the damage for each swing, but you could use dice to roll the range of damage as well. Like something could inherently have a 2d6+2 damage, (or 2d6-2 for crude weapons) and then also have a magic enhancement of +2, and of course they would stack because they're technically different things.(or in case of a -2 and +2, cancel each other out.)
Lord Karsus explanation for differences between potions I like though, where as I don't feel a unique history as necessary, it makes sense that different groups brew things slightly differently and they'd have a different taste and feel to them. Is there a comprehensive list of potions like that somewhere? It sounds cool but I'd really prefer not to do the work myself, I'd rather an online list with photos of every kind of potion and how they effect the user to make my life easier.
Dalor Darden, how about just every sword ever made by random not very good Blacksmith from small town? There's no way you can think of a history for that… Since its 1000s of people throughout their entire life, their first swords will be crappier than their last. But in all, still no one cares about their weapons/armor. I mean maybe they could add a signature to it like a "Sword +1 by Blacksmith Jerod of Mirabar made 1342DR" or something but even that, well Idk about you, but I really don't care much about who made some random sword that I'm going to toss as soon as I find a better one.
I like the idea of the index cards, but really I just assumed that was how it is done. I mean, in the video games you find something it has a description and stats, I figured in the PnP version it was the same thing, gm gave them a card or sheet of paper for the items they got (aside from minor stuff like a potion). I would probably do this, get a bunch of index cards with items written out on them, fill a small treasure chest with the folded index cards, then whenever they get to a point where they would get treasure roll a d6 to see how many cards to pull out then pull them out at random. They could get an epic weapon, or simply some bolts for a sling when they don't even use a sling. And also have several things to do that way wherever they go there's something to do, items to get, and the game can go on for as many quests as there is time for.
Anyway, I've decided I'm just going to learn v4. Its newer, and sounds easier, and I probably would have chosen to learn it anyway if I'd known it wasn't as restricted as I thought it was. And if I learn something to make me more interested in another version later I'll check it out. But I wont be able to learn v4 for awhile anyway, tons of work, and all free time (which will be nonexistent for at least a week) goes to Diablo 3. Which is a good game you might want to check out if you haven't already, better than NWN2 (which is my current favorite realms game, though if they remade the BG games with modern graphics and made them so they could run on my computer again then they'd be my favorite). If Diablo is finally dead in this game, I theorize that the next game might be a game called Sanctuary (the name of the planet they're on) and just be a game of the style of the previous ones based in their world, only more open hopefully, less linear, more like a FR game. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 10 Jun 2012 : 00:00:05
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ahhh...but they AREN'T just swords. They are the "Sword of Jerum, Guard of Baron Korl" and so on. Swords in history, unlike in D&D, were very cherished (if it was a finely made sword and/or a gift).
-Except, to the PCs, Jerum the Guard of Baron Korl is a nobody, and certainly isn't a proper noun, as more powerful weapons with more 'proper' names are.
I'm only saying that anything can have history. As for Jerum's Blade; medieval knights often named their swords...just as soldiers in our own army (yours truly included) often name their weapons. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 22:05:52
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ahhh...but they AREN'T just swords. They are the "Sword of Jerum, Guard of Baron Korl" and so on. Swords in history, unlike in D&D, were very cherished (if it was a finely made sword and/or a gift).
-Except, to the PCs, Jerum the Guard of Baron Korl is a nobody, and certainly isn't a proper noun, as more powerful weapons with more 'proper' names are.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I have done a little of research into running a 3.x/PFRPG game w/ little or no magic, but I always run up against how this would effect the CRs of critters whom are now more resistant to the meddling of adventurers. Has anyone else looking into this at all?
-I don't remember the specifics of the game because it was a while ago, but the party (10th Level or so) encountered a Golem. However it happened, we were low on magic, and we had fought some Beholders previously, and a few party members had their primary weapons disintegrated (a better option than the characters themselves getting evaporated). With the Golem's DR, and limited magical weapons to bypass it, it was a horrible battle. A hell of a lot of damage was absorbed and ignored, prolonging it way past what probably would have been a generally easy battle with said weapons and spells. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 19:06:59
Game of Thrones d20 RPG for a low/almost no magic game. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 13:35:03
Iron Heroes has some great low-magic options to help overcome these issues. |
| idilippy |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 05:28:02
That probably deserves a thread of it's own to discuss in, but to begin you need to define what little or no magic means to your game. Are all spellcasting classes banned, just full casting classes, none of the classes? Are you going to add restrictions to players who cast spells and will they be role playing, mechanical, or both? What about magic items, or magical monsters, or supernatural abilities/near-magical feats? Is it just arcane magic that's going to be rare, or just divine, or will both types be rare? Do you still want a full 1st-20th level progression, or would you prefer a lower level game to go along with the low magic?
Most people have a very clear picture in mind when they speak of a low magic game, but that picture is almost never exactly the same as the next person's. I am sure there are more questions to consider that I can't think of as well. The first thing to do is be sure you know exactly what you want for your low magic game, then you can see what has to go and people can get you ideas on how to go about doing that.
For an example, I recently started a Carrion Crown campaign that I wanted to run in 19th century Europe, rather than Golarion, drawing on some classic horror tales for inspiration. I wanted the PCs to be able to use magic, so as not to deviate too much from Pathfinder's assumptions, but didn't want to worry about the effects on the real world if 9th level spells are thrown around. I also wanted there to still be a reason for technology increasing, and decided that I wanted magic item shops to be nonexistent and mystical creatures to be rare enough that many people in the world may not have seen them.
For my needs, I decided running an E7 campaign(characters, PC and NPC, level up to 7 at most, then get feats every so often thereafter rather than continuing to gain levels) with firearm rules from d20 past and an option from Unearthed Arcana for armor increases by level(that's on d20srd.com). I also decided that magic is in decline in the world, non-humans are dying out or becoming more humanlike, monsters are vanished from the more civilized areas, and both the number and potency of individuals capable of spellcasting has long been in decline. I came up with a world where earth shattering spells and dragons as large as a skyscraper are things of legends argued over by historians over what is true and what is an exaggeration. A world where magic items come from deeds the item has accomplished, individuals the item has been in contact with, belief associated with the item, or simple age: a magic item being a relic of a bygone era, rather than one with magical assembly lines. That let me have the flavor of the late 1800's Europe for the players without worrying about all the possible changes a magic-saturated setting would have, while also allowing full casters for my PCs(they're special after all) and leaving it open for PCs to acquire magic items, or even for mundane items in their possession to become magical by association or significant deeds. I also skipped over the "real world religion" problems by making none of the deities or pantheons talkative. Special members of any faith may receive divine casting ability, but those individuals are rare in every religion, and are just as likely to be hermits or wanderers than leaders of the various faiths.
All of those changes work for me and my players, because they fit the lower magic campaign I want, however your campaign may require a completely different system of changes. Might be best to start a new thread with your whole campaign idea and your view on magic in it in there, then let people address your specific points. Sorry that this long post doesn't have a ton in the way of specific help, I'd be more than happy to give you my opinions on possible changes when/if I get a better idea what you see your campaign as being(though you probably will find others with better advice or more experience than me). |
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