| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 23:49:43
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16561368&postcount=105
quote:
Evermeet - it's still there. the portals to/from it are all gone (except maybe a few) so many think the place was whipped out. It is not. pg 132/133 are all about it. evermeet was teleported into the feywild with a echo of it on the planet. the echo appears just like the original. However, it states the last 8 dragons of evermeet, in isla sumbrar were killed or teleported somewhere else in the spellplague..now only creatures live in the ruins of that island...
-Now its the Isle of Dread/Xen'drik! 
BRIMSTONE  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 01:04:18
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Wow!It looks like you're the first one I've seen who's actually excited about the 4th ed 
I'm excited about 4th Edition. It's that just talking about that around here doesn't seem to be particularly politic.
I'm sorry Christopher, but that's simply not true. Granted, there is some negativity toward the overall premise of 4e, and of 4e FR in particular, but there are still many scribes very keen and rather content with what's coming in the FRCG. You're just as free to talk about 4e FR as you would any previous edition of the Realms.
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| Skeptic |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 23:42:33
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
I'm excited about 4th Edition. It's that just talking about that around here doesn't seem to be particularly politic.
 |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 21:44:35
-Right. Plus I really don't want to waste my time complaining the same complaints over and over again ad naseum.
-After reading The Evermeet part of the FRCG, Evermeet is just an uninhabited echo of the Feywild version. The little Island to the Southeast is the Blasted Plaguelands Dungeon. Evermeet is a good base of operations to explore the Blasted Plagueland Dungeon! 
BRIMSTONE
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| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 20:50:06
You have to learn to seperate the Gamer in you from the Fan in you, as I have.
The FR Fan in me is disgusted.
But the FR DM in me sees endless possibilities now.  |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 14:27:15
quote:
Wow!It looks like you're the first one I've seen who's actually excited about the 4th ed
I'm excited about 4th Edition. It's that just talking about that around here doesn't seem to be particularly politic. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 09:09:31
quote:
Originally posted by TwigB
Evermeet as a ruin filled monster isle...neat! Personally I always perceived it as untouchable, a place that held no real interest for my party, It was amazing but very Tolkein-esque. I think with Cormanthyr being reborn (I'm pretty sure it is, if I'm mistaken let me know) Evermeet just has no more place. The story and roleplaying potential here is enormous, I can imagine an elf who abandoned Evermeet in order to retake Cormanthyr, now racked with guilt over the loss of his previous homeland (kind of a reversal of fortunes)
As for the rest of the WotC exerts and articles I really like what I'm seeing so far. The realms have taken some serious knocks and gotten some interesting makeovers. I can't wait to get my hands on the new setting (Some of my party members are coming to the states for a few weeks and high on their priority list is buying the FRCS! Joy!)I've even managed to convince some old roleplayers (an ex-Dark Sun addict in particular) to dust of of their forgotten dice and get back in the game! Keep up the good work design team
The problem with the 4e campaign setting is that it has "taken out" many of the areas which were rich in story and intrigue by either declaring them "gone" or changing the civilization(s) which were living there to become pretty bland (so far, because we havent got as much description yet [always hoping for improvement, but I dont think it will come this time]). This is all well if you only expect "monster mashing" from the game, but those who want to "live" in the world and get involved in politics, maybe start a trading company and compete with rivals and so on, those people cant find any room for their way of playing a roleplaying game. The "old" Forgotten Realms did have sufficient room for "monster mashing", but the "new" doesnt care about style and this shows in the rather simple excerpts we get so far. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 22:45:20
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Until you're given a true writing assignment with a short deadline, you have no idea what it's like for these designers. Hell, I typically spend half my alloted time just researching for the article before I even start writing.
Being in the "book creation business" myself (non-fiction) I can only say that this is the usual way to go about things: a deadline. I can also say that sometimes the deadline is more important than the quality of the book and that is what always annoys me. I prefer books which are published "when they are done" over those who are published "when the deadline is up". From my own point of view I can also say that writing isnt easy (I am trying to do a little amateur writing myself) because you cant "force your Muse" to come up with interesting ideas and explanations, so sometimes it takes time to get things written ... a lot of time. Sadly this didnt work out for 4th edition and many articles and descriptions give the feeling of being written with a short deadline with no time for research. This gives the fans who like a setting for the stories it has a really bad feeling about the new edition and it probably cant be corrected easily. Those who are simply interested in exciting places to find spots for monster mashing will have loads of fun with 4e, but the story falls far too short for such a big place as the Forgotten Realms ... even with the reduced landmass. Evermeet is no exception and it got reduced from a mystical place to a monster mashing wilderness. |
| Tyranthraxus |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 21:26:10
quote:
Originally posted by TwigB
Evermeet as a ruin filled monster isle...neat! Personally I always perceived it as untouchable, a place that held no real interest for my party, It was amazing but very Tolkein-esque. I think with Cormanthyr being reborn (I'm pretty sure it is, if I'm mistaken let me know) Evermeet just has no more place. The story and roleplaying potential here is enormous, I can imagine an elf who abandoned Evermeet in order to retake Cormanthyr, now racked with guilt over the loss of his previous homeland (kind of a reversal of fortunes)
As for the rest of the WotC exerts and articles I really like what I'm seeing so far. The realms have taken some serious knocks and gotten some interesting makeovers. I can't wait to get my hands on the new setting (Some of my party members are coming to the states for a few weeks and high on their priority list is buying the FRCS! Joy!)I've even managed to convince some old roleplayers (an ex-Dark Sun addict in particular) to dust of of their forgotten dice and get back in the game! Keep up the good work design team
Wow!It looks like you're the first one I've seen who's actually excited about the 4th ed |
| TwigB |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 23:55:29
Evermeet as a ruin filled monster isle...neat! Personally I always perceived it as untouchable, a place that held no real interest for my party, It was amazing but very Tolkein-esque. I think with Cormanthyr being reborn (I'm pretty sure it is, if I'm mistaken let me know) Evermeet just has no more place. The story and roleplaying potential here is enormous, I can imagine an elf who abandoned Evermeet in order to retake Cormanthyr, now racked with guilt over the loss of his previous homeland (kind of a reversal of fortunes)
As for the rest of the WotC exerts and articles I really like what I'm seeing so far. The realms have taken some serious knocks and gotten some interesting makeovers. I can't wait to get my hands on the new setting (Some of my party members are coming to the states for a few weeks and high on their priority list is buying the FRCS! Joy!)I've even managed to convince some old roleplayers (an ex-Dark Sun addict in particular) to dust of of their forgotten dice and get back in the game! Keep up the good work design team |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 15:11:33
Brian...
YOU are proof of what he is saying.
You are not a full-time designer - you HAVE a 'day job'... and yet everyone prefers the things you wrote over the 'professionals'.
You are living proof that FANS are FAR more creative then the guys strutting around wearing said label. 
I DON'T have a day-job, unfortunately (disability), but I am a huge fan of the setting... and some LFR guys have offered me MONEY to produce FR maps of their regions because they think the FRCG ones are puke-worthy!!!
I can't do that, of course, because its illegal for me to accept money for anything containing someone else's IP. I did, however, offer to do them for FREE, because I feel really bad about the shabby maps that came with 4e.
You and George are fans FIRST Brian, and it shows. When you love what you do, it shows in any creative endeavor you undertake, but when you treat it as 'just a job', that also shows.
NEVER lose sight of what got you started, Brian - your love of FR...
Don't become them. 
|
| arry |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 14:05:11
I would pay to read articles by Mr. James as the quality is so good.* I would not pay to read the rest of the articles that I have seen.
*If Mr. James was writing about the pre-Spellplague Realms. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 01:00:02
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I'd still wait till WOTC releases the fan policy. But that's me. Of course, as I said the other day, they haven't given a date on when it's going to be released.
Aye.
I'll note that I was actually speaking of the time after the release of the fan policy. If nothing mentioned specifically prohibits such content, then I don't think we'll have too much problem.
But, as of now, we still have no official decision on this for the Compendium. And we likely won't until we hear what WotC has to say on this. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 23:52:00
It seems to be more a question of the work environment and the nature of the project. The most talented writer is going to be hampered juggling all the world-building and game-design compromises of a committee-conceived setting like the new Realms, in what may be a high-pressure environment. Also, creativity per se is not straightforwardly what they want; the FRCG is clearly not a world sourcebook in the traditional sense but also, for instance, a hybrid rules supplement (as seen in the latest drow preview).
If they wanted creative, they have Ed's number. They chose to use him in a subsidiary role because they want exact control of the project's direction, and the way he designs wouldn't fit what they conceived. |
| StarBog |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 23:38:18
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
We have come to expect great work from that team, yet it seems that—with a couple of exceptions—they are not delivering, and have not been delivering since the changes to the Realms had first been announced.
Reading between the lines, I think that it can safely be said that the gap is nothing to do with the authors in question. Constraints and straitjackets, remember?
I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering why, with all the mud flung at 4e here (justifiably I think, but that's a whole new kettle of worms), why some of the authors (who have been involved in 4e) come back here time and time again and participate.
WR must have some photos of them all in compromising positions or something
I guess what I'm saying is that we must remember that FR Authors are people too! |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 23:28:16
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I'm going to have to call you out on this one Kyrene as I know from firsthand experience that it's not as easy as it appears. Not by a long shot. Until you're given a true writing assignment with a short deadline, you have no idea what it's like for these designers. Hell, I typically spend half my alloted time just researching for the article before I even start writing.
If you truly believe that you can be more creative than the WotC team, then I look forward to seeing your future submissions to Dragon Magazine or Candlkeep Compendium.
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
This is our hobby, yet most of us here can be more creative in a few off hours between real life commitments than the whole WotC design team over the course of how many design man-years.
They're *researching* for their articles?  I must have missed those parts they actually researched for... at least for the 4E Realms
Maybe they should stop slapping each other's backs all day and telling each other how *AWESOME* everyone's 4E stuff is?
Seriously, I know that you and the other Lorelords take your assignments seriously, and do careful research -- all of which shows as top-notch quality. And maybe that's why the people here are so disappointed with the other articles written by WoTC staffers? Because I have to say that apart from a few exceptions, in my opinion the quality of both Dungeon and Dragon articles have dropped since WoTC canceled the print mags. At first they claimed it was due to everyone working on 4E, but since the game is now out, I wonder what is their excuse now? All I've seen is everyone claiming how *AWESOME STUFF* they have to show us, and how *EXCITED* they're about everyone's work, but the stuff I've seen hardly compares (again, in my subjective opinion) to anything Paizo is publishing at the moment.
IMO the bottom line is that editing and "quality control" is not exactly on par with what they're trying to tell us, and yet they claim how excited they're to show up at work -- apparently they don't feel overstressed with deadlines, right? I think Kyrene is right in the regard that most of us probably have seen "non-professional" DMs writing and running stuff that is better than WoTC is putting out at the moment, and those guys at WoTC *are* getting paid for it. If they feel stressed about deadlines or simply uncreative (despite their claims about "4E getting everyone's creative juices flowing in amazinf ways"), maybe WoTC should hire more staffers and/or freelancers to meet the standards in quality? Or, maybe they just haven't hired the right guys for the job? |
| Kyrene |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 19:14:52
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I'm going to have to call you out on this one Kyrene as I know from firsthand experience that it's not as easy as it appears. Not by a long shot. Until you're given a true writing assignment with a short deadline, you have no idea what it's like for these designers. Hell, I typically spend half my alloted time just researching for the article before I even start writing.
Brian, of all the work on the 4E Realms that WotC has released as excerpts—or whatnots—thusfar, yours is the only bit that reflects that.
quote:
If you truly believe that you can be more creative than the WotC team, then I look forward to seeing your future submissions to Dragon Magazine or Candlkeep Compendium.
quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
To put it bluntly: how do we resolve the inherent contradictions in saying "We think you're a good author, and we enjoy your stuff, but 4e FRCS stinks, including the stuff you wrote?"
StarBog put his finger right on it for me. It is not a matter of me thinking I'm more creative than someone on the WotC team. Or indeed even a matter of me being or not being as/more creative, given the same amount of paid man-hours and WotC in-house background resources like source books, etc. to deliver the project. It is a matter of it seeming like it is like that at the moment (given what has been released as a so-called showcase of the FRCS to come). We know that they, no, let me rephrase that... We have come to expect great work from that team, yet it seems that—with a couple of exceptions—they are not delivering, and have not been delivering since the changes to the Realms had first been announced.
It therefore upsets me that we are being berated or called out or told to shush when we voice our dismay at what we perceive as being unimaginative or lackluster work on a product we adore and by designers and writers we used to respect.
Anyway, I'm going to tell myself to shush now, as this has gone far enough off topic as it is.
Back to Evermeet in the 4E FRCG... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:54:38
quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
To put it bluntly: how do we resolve the inherent contradictions in saying "We think you're a good author, and we enjoy your stuff, but 4e FRCS stinks, including the stuff you wrote?"
I don't think there's any contradiction there, unless one thinks that enjoying an author's work means you must like every single piece of writing they put down on paper. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:51:46
I'd still wait till WOTC releases the fan policy. But that's me. Of course, as I said the other day, they haven't given a date on when it's going to be released.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't think we actually came to a decision on that. Though, as I see it, so long as the OGL/GSL doesn't specifically prohibit such activities, I don't see a problem.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:51:19
I think the whole side discussion about whether or not people could do better than the current designers really misses the point, anyway. It's a red herring. Maybe someone who dislikes the changes could not to a better job as a designer than the current team. So what? Does that mean they have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever? |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 17:34:37
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
general question: Are we any clearer on whether fan created edition neutral pieces for the Compendium are acceptable under the 4E OGL/GSL licence. I seem to recall some debate about the new legal requirements and their interpretation?
That's why I'm waiting. If RA Salvatore and Ed Greenwood are forced into the Shattered Realms, then I'll be done with my reading. If by chance Drizzt continues where he is and Ed continues to write Realms lore, then I'll atleast have 2 people to go to for Realms stuff. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:52:27
I don't think we actually came to a decision on that. Though, as I see it, so long as the OGL/GSL doesn't specifically prohibit such activities, I don't see a problem. |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:41:55
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
If you truly believe that you can be more creative than the WotC team, then I look forward to seeing your future submissions to Dragon Magazine or Candlkeep Compendium.
Excellent point well made Brian. I have lots of unfinished pieces of Lore that translate well in my campaign, but not well when written down for others to look at unless they know the backstory 'to where we are at now'. Coming up with ideas is (fairly) easy, giving them coherence and interest to others in the written form is another kettle of fish entirely! (or whatever the equivilent Realmsian saying is )
general question: Are we any clearer on whether fan created edition neutral pieces for the Compendium are acceptable under the 4E OGL/GSL licence. I seem to recall some debate about the new legal requirements and their interpretation?
Cheers
Damian |
| StarBog |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:40:41
I have to agree with Brian. Writing professionally (or for commercial organisations) is a whole diffent kettle of worms than doing so in an amateur fashion. None of us non-professionals know the exact constraints and pressures that writers have been put under with the new FRCS. It would perhaps behove us to give some of the chaps a break.
Somtimes I wonder if I'm being a bit too hard on the new FRCS given how many of the authors who have contributed to it also contribute here. I wonder where and how do we draw the line between acknowledging the undoubted skills of said authors and expressing our disagreements with the direction the Forgotten Realms has taken?
To put it bluntly: how do we resolve the inherent contradictions in saying "We think you're a good author, and we enjoy your stuff, but 4e FRCS stinks, including the stuff you wrote?"
(edit: WR - just saw your post which was posted as I was writing mine. feel free to delete this post if it isn't helpful)
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:36:38
And at this point, I think maybe everyone needs to just step away from the keyboards and take several deep breaths. |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:20:33
I'm going to have to call you out on this one Kyrene as I know from firsthand experience that it's not as easy as it appears. Not by a long shot. Until you're given a true writing assignment with a short deadline, you have no idea what it's like for these designers. Hell, I typically spend half my alloted time just researching for the article before I even start writing.
If you truly believe that you can be more creative than the WotC team, then I look forward to seeing your future submissions to Dragon Magazine or Candlkeep Compendium.
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
This is our hobby, yet most of us here can be more creative in a few off hours between real life commitments than the whole WotC design team over the course of how many design man-years.
|
| Kyrene |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 08:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
If you think you can do better than the current designers, get off your rump and get published so we can complain about how you messed everything up in 6th edition Forgotten Realms in 2016.
Additionally -- and at the risk of it sounding like a tired apology -- most of us have day (or night) jobs. This is our hobby, yet most of us here can be more creative in a few off hours between real life commitments than the whole WotC design team over the course of how many design man-years. I'm really happy for you -- you seem to be really enamoured of 4E and more specifically 4E Realms -- but don't you dare try to chastise anyone for having a differing opinion.</end rant> |
| RodOdom |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 03:19:59
" If you think you can do better than the current designers, get off your rump"
Thank you for completely missing my point. Adding bits and pieces to the Realms is something many have done very well. Look at Salvatore. But a complete overhaul of everything, now that only the original creator has the talent to do. All these excerpts only confirms my fears. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:29:53
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Some new info.
[QUOTE=StarFyre2007;16565103]Oh, regarding Evermeet again, i read the full paragraph...in addition to the dragons in Isla Sumbrar disappearing, it also mentions all those eternal soldiers there (along with the dragons) and the spelljammer Armadas that were hidden there, they all burned in the magical fires of the spellplague..so basically, the most powerful army on the FR (other than Larlochs 60+ liches or whatever it is) is gone..but since they are in the Feywild now, I guess that makes no difference.
Sanjay
BRIMSTONE
OK, I'm still confused. The soldiers burned up in the Spellplague and are gone, but they're in the Feywild, so they're OK? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:27:01
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Well, Enworld had a piece about people having early copies of FRCG and a link to the forum. News has had time to spread. So every realms fan, whether they like the changes or not, is moving there to get details on the changes. Either to complain about them or to champion them. Then there is the chances of flame wars between the two sides getting out of control or other glitches.
So a millions of Realms fans, plus the inability to accommidate them or control them leads to frequent breakdowns of the site. It will likely increase in down time before it gets better.
Frequent forum-crashing on the WotC boards isn't anything new or recent, though.
EDIT: I see Dagnirion explained it even more thoroughly. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 22:09:30
-Some new info.
[QUOTE=StarFyre2007;16565103]Oh, regarding Evermeet again, i read the full paragraph...in addition to the dragons in Isla Sumbrar disappearing, it also mentions all those eternal soldiers there (along with the dragons) and the spelljammer Armadas that were hidden there, they all burned in the magical fires of the spellplague..so basically, the most powerful army on the FR (other than Larlochs 60+ liches or whatever it is) is gone..but since they are in the Feywild now, I guess that makes no difference.
Sanjay[/QUOTE]
BRIMSTONE
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