| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 19:56:09
Over in the Dragon issue 365: New Cormyr , I posted the following. Rather than hijack the thread over there, I'd like to move any relevant discussion to a separate thread. I'd like Brian's excellent work and any discussion of it not to get tainted by crossfire.
quote:
One general note, to all *puts on his Ed hat*:
If you have questions about things in the piece, this is a good thing. Send them off in an email or a letter to Wizards' Customer Service (not the message boards, which they tend not to consider an accurate measure of fan interest). Let them know you want to know more about the Forest Kingdom, and the inhabitants of 1479DR and onward.
I know that 4E hasn't been as appealing to everyone as WotC has hoped it would be, the 4E Realms in particular. But this is meant not as an end-all, but a teaser, to let fans of FR know that there is much adventure and flavor to be found in these latter years.
We (BRJ, Ed and I) all took great pains to give you characters and events and historyin this article. Brian did the heavy lifting with the prose, and deserves full credit for his excellent work. But the characters and names and events are carefully crafted and woven into the existing lore of Cormyr. Just because we've all been away for a hundred years does not mean that the show has stopped. This is still Cormyr, and the curtain is back up.
Of course, wanting this lore to continue means someone has to pay for it, and soon enough the DDI is going to kick in and this show is no longer going to be free. If enough avid fans of the Realms don't speak up and say "this is the FR lore we've been wanting all along; keep it up, and we'll try and stick around!" then WotC won't know that this is what folks want, and eventually it will dry up completely. Believe me when I say that those of us who work on these things want to write it as much as you all want to read it. But we can't write it unless we're contracted to do so, and we won't be contracted unless WotC has money to pay us with, and that money needs to come from customers hungry for more. [Full disclosure: I've never been paid by WotC for anything, ever. Not one dime. So I'm not shilling for the company. I'm being honest about where I think the company that controls the Realms stands.]
I want nothing more than than to tell you all about Ganrahast's history, about the romance of Foril and Jemra, about Alusair's departure and Caladnei's fate and Laspeera's daughters and all the other little gems I gave over to Brian to squirrel away in this article. But this is a show, folks, and WotC's selling the tickets. They control the curtain, and it won't go up if people keep saying that they would like to watch from outside the door.
BC
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 18:00:29
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
-Tell them what you don't like. Avoid making too many references here to changes that aren't up for consideration (for example, the introduction of Tymanther, the killing of Mystra, or the advancement of the timeline).
Therein lies the problem. It is just too late to save the Realms |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 17:48:37
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
It’s still the Realms. So what if the Spellplague happened?
No. It is not. Not by a long shot |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 17:40:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
What's being ignored everytime someone says this is the fact that a lot of people like buying new products, and they like seeing the setting go into new and interesting places. And for many people, this doesn't include nuking everything.
Yeah. I can't understand why people don't get that. I like buying supplements. I liked keeping in touch with the new developments. I hate what they done to my fun |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 17:33:06
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
My last advice still stands: go work for Paizo while they're still recruiting! as a business grad, I can sense a shift when one is coming...
Unless Paizo suddenly acquires the right to distribute material for the Forgotten Realms this statement is meaningless to me. My passion is for the Realms, not for Wizards of the Coast or the latest cool 3rd party publisher or setting of the month. You know where you're going to find *me* 10 years from now? Right here on Candlekeep.com reading posts about how crappy 6th edition is and how great the 5th edition sourcebook were. Some of you may be ready to abandon the Realms (as is certainly your right) but I'm in this for the long haul.
and hopefully, the 6th edition realms is set in the 1380s |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 17:31:26
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Finally, Rich Baker himself has said (and I don't want this to sound like something negative regarding Rich, I actually appreciated the candor), that WOTC going into 4th edition wasn't worried about those of us that have been here for a while, because if they keep trying to make us happy, they may not pick up new people that they want to bring into the setting. It sounds like long term fans are incidental to this marketing plan.
They have made it abundantly clear that the core FR fans are meaningless in their eyes. The attempt to get new Warcraft fans is more important then pleasing the old timers
Why not create a new setting? Why screw us over? |
| Bakra |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 13:03:28
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Way to go, Bakra! 
Like Sanishriver, my letter's a WIP, waiting to see the FRCG/FRCS when released. But it will be mailed this month.
Thanks Monknwildcat!
Now there are three of us.
And as I said above don’t use crayon.
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| Bakra |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 12:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Mine is too long and needs to be edited down.
Still intend to send it this month though.
Glad to see you are writing one Sanishiver! I’m no longer alone!! A bit of advice, don’t use crayon. They don’t like crayon for some reason. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 23:48:26
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I am all for people withholding money from a company that doesn’t provide the product or serve that they ask for. A company that doesn’t earn your money doesn’t deserve your money.
[...]
And that’s the real fear I have. Not that FR4E will succeed, but that it and DDI will fail so miserably that the only support we will see past year’s end will be a smattering of articles and a few novels. Once DDI is in full swing, there will be no way of tracking numbers to see which people are subscribing in the hopes of FR content, and if so, what kind. That’s why direct communication with the company is so important.
[...]
What I hear in those voices is fans saying to one another, “I’m leaving, and no matter what they do, it will be too little and too late. The betrayal is unforgivable.” If FR fans feel like WotC can't win them back, then that's an individual decision for them to make. What I hear from WotC, though, is “if that’s how you feel, I’ll just find someone new.” And they mean it. Alienating FR fans isn't something they intended to do, but if that winds up happening, they have the ability to find a new market by making FR into something their general D&D audience will like. We don't have the ability to wrest FR from their hands, and, lacking that ability, I think it's in everyone's best interests to tell WotC what we want out of the Realms before they look at the numbers and start making even more changes we might not like.
At the moment WotC will not get any more money from me unless it is for old products that I still dont have (mostly missing novels due to a longer break there). The radical (and mostly badly explained / unreasonable) changes they made are simply too much to bear after 25+ years of playing the game and buying the products!
My fear is that 4e will be a success and that Dungeons & Dragons will change from a "roleplaying game" into a "paper version of an MMORPG". IMO the most important part is the roleplaying part, because you cant really see where you are going compared to a fight with 5 trolls. Society offers bigger risks than monsters of which you will know the stats after a while.
The only way WotC could regain my support would be if they would keep on supporting previous editions with novels and maybe a few adjustments to the rules. A 3.75 edition would be easily doable, because most of the pitfalls of 3.5 are known by now and could easily be changed. This would end the endlessly repeating whine of "3.5 is broken" and they could even offer multiple ways to change some spells / problems. To me it is simply ridiculous to throw away all of the previous material that has ever been written. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 16:09:05
Way to go, Bakra!
Like Sanishriver, my letter's a WIP, waiting to see the FRCG/FRCS when released. But it will be mailed this month. |
| Sanishiver |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 03:54:16
Mine is too long and needs to be edited down.
Still intend to send it this month though. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 14:21:51
Thank you Garen.
I wrote and mailed my letter yesterday (August 6th)
Anyone else?
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:17:14
Kia and Monk: Perfectly well put. Thanks for weighing in on the issue. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:10:52
Well, I sure as heck ain't making any of the 4th ed changes in my realms  . Hells, even Walkerninja doesn't plan on using 4ed Realms, and he actually seems to like 4th ed. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 21:25:19
Just read MT's post to to the Gleemax thread, with the DDI dude's passing.  |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 21:12:26
Kia: NP. I'm usually a pessimist/realist, so thanks for the opportunity to switch roles.
RF: I feel citing the unalterable changes that displeased consumers is required, especially if professional and constructive. Otherwise it's impossible to constructively explain any sense of broken trust for WOTC's artistic custodianship of the Realms.
I game as fuel for my imagination, akin to appreciating and creating art, more than loyalty to any brand or mechanics or setting. When the company I allow primary stewardship of my imagination's resources and trust to produce product I can comfortably puchase based on brand alone produces subpar material, wrecks havoc with and disdains the material I enjoyed, and monthly fails to fulfill promised aspects of change that I might enjoy (like DDI), there's lots of broken trust.
The preferred artists of my imagination remain around the gaming industry, most of those at WOTC as novelists, but the company and brand would have to regain my trust for me to consider their gaming material or future novels by unfamilar authors. A positive first step would be fulfilling the promise of DDI.
How can that be explained without referencing the unchangeable elements of the 4E FR?  |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 19:17:56
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
I'm unsure about doomed, Kiaransalyn, but I definitely see it as inexorably changed!
I am by nature a pessimist but that last post did have a touch of melodrama about it.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I was thinking--if it's really true that a letter from a person will be taken to represent more than just one person, does it really do any harm to discuss those things that "aren't debatable", if only in the hopes that it might give WotC pause the next time they think about implementing radical changes to the setting?
I guess we can raise as many issues as we see necessary. Whether it has an effect or not we can't say. However, if we say nothing then no-one at WotC will know. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 17:40:51
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Tymanther is one of the new elements I'm more likely to use, if it can be easily placed on a world of its own.
Agreed. Same goes for other elements I could probably cherry-pick out. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 17:38:14
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
The main point we want to get across is that there is a sizeable number of loyal customers who do not feel that they wish to continue purchasing FR products because of recent decisions which they disagree with. They have for a great number of years been good customers of WotC and its predecessor. Their enjoyment of the product has extended over a great number of years. However, recent changes are felt by said people to be excessive and exceedingly counter to the spirit of the Realms. In the first instance, a debate should be undertaken to address issues and to correct mistakes. (Hmm, that's turned into a semi-letter already.)
I was thinking--if it's really true that a letter from a person will be taken to represent more than just one person, does it really do any harm to discuss those things that "aren't debatable", if only in the hopes that it might give WotC pause the next time they think about implementing radical changes to the setting? |
| Faraer |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 00:51:35
I think Faerûn already has about as many lizardlike/dragonlike humanoids as it needs, but there's room for many more in the multiverse. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 00:48:18
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Tymanther is one of the new elements I'm more likely to use, if it can be easily placed on a world of its own.
I actually like the idea of Tymanther, save for two bits: the race should be called something other than dragonborn, and I hate the way the nation was simply transplanted in. My first idea for bringing in the dragonborn race would have been to have them somehow related to the saurials, though they could also easily be something the sarrukh cooked up. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 00:10:21
Tymanther is one of the new elements I'm more likely to use, if it can be easily placed on a world of its own. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 18:14:07
As of right now, I have plans to start a 4e campaign when the FRCG comes out, but a lot is riding on just how good (or bad) that book is.
From looking at the maps posted with the excerpts, I'm really not feeling too good about the Realms geography ATM. The excerpts themselves I can work with - they are bit too light for my tastes, but I can build off of them and create something decent.
I won't go anywhere near Kry... Tymanther.  |
| Sanishiver |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 17:11:05
Not at my gaming table. The (4E) Realms are as strong as ever. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 17:10:46
I'm unsure about doomed, Kiaransalyn, but I definitely see it as inexorably changed!
Garen, my thanks for getting together the contact information. I'll work on a letter regarding the released content and finish it up after viewing the 4E FRCS. Such a letter should be nothing if not cathartic....  |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 10:26:11
I guess so close to publication date there is nothing we can say that will change the book. Since I doubt many of us will buy it there doesn't seem much chance that we can find specifics to complain about. Maybe the Realms really are doomed. |
| Kyrene |
Posted - 02 Aug 2008 : 17:40:17
Agreed. Since much of what a broad base of us here dislike is exactly what is not up for debate anymore -- and since both FR products are probably already finalised and ready for printing and distribution -- writing our letters after an evaluation would probably be a better idea. That way we will also be able to write about exactly what was changed, not about rumours and hysteria that we may have let ourselves be influenced by up to now. I am sure most of us can even find a way of doing our evaluation without necessarily laying out money to do so. We can therefore still vote with our wallets if need be. |
| arry |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 19:18:45
As the FRCG is due out in August it's already been written and is in the printing/distribution chain. Nothing we say can alter the FRCG one iota. It does make sense to look at the book and complain about specifics. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 19:09:18
As regards generic letters, don't organisations like Amnesty use them. I know with my own experience of BioGems that standard letters are used and that they work very well. I've also seen them used to influence UK parliamentary debate.
The main point we want to get across is that there is a sizeable number of loyal customers who do not feel that they wish to continue purchasing FR products because of recent decisions which they disagree with. They have for a great number of years been good customers of WotC and its predecessor. Their enjoyment of the product has extended over a great number of years. However, recent changes are felt by said people to be excessive and exceedingly counter to the spirit of the Realms. In the first instance, a debate should be undertaken to address issues and to correct mistakes. (Hmm, that's turned into a semi-letter already.)
As for waiting for FRCG to come out. Wouldn't that be too late? |
| Faraer |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 17:22:24
I should probably write a letter anyway.
Depending on their focus, such letters might be more credible, at this point, after the FRCG has come out. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 17:10:54
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I wouldn't recommend a petition. It takes less than a minute to sign a petition, and I've never seen anyone take an online petition seriously except for the people signing it.
And there are computer programs that can generate fake signatures.
Garen, thanks for the advice. Perhaps I will write a letter. However, like some here many of the things I dislike about the 4E Realms "aren't up for debate". |
