| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 01 Jun 2007 : 17:13:45
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for the short story of Speaking with the Dead, in The Best of the Realms, Book III anthology, by Elaine Cunningham. Please discuss herein: |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 23:23:26
Oh no, not that armor... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 16:32:38
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
"All right, I give up--what are you supposed to be, and why does your armor have nipples?"
Must remember not to read Elaine's posts when I'm drinking something . . . so Danilo goes for the "Joel Shumaker" style armor, eh?  |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 13:40:26
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Perhaps I'm being an optimist, but I thought Danilo tried to acquit Elaith because he thought it was the right thing to do. Elaith might be a criminal...but that doesn't mean he should be punished for a crime he didn't commit. I've read that Batman was once in a similar quandrary with the Joker (Joker always gets away when he's in the wrong, but when he is caught for a crime he didn't commit, Batman winds up defending him).
To me, it's all about sticking to one's principles, even if the result might not be so favorable.
Yep, that's what I was going for. Danilo has a strong chaotic neutral streak, but as he himself would tell you, "I have standards. They might be low, but I do have them."
I just had a really disturbing mental image of Dan-as-Batman. Except he'd be in forest green, as he considers all-black attire cliched, perhaps even declasse. Arilyn would look him up and down and inquire, "All right, I give up--what are you supposed to be, and why does your armor have nipples?" |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 23:53:57
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Given all of the dark deeds that Danilo knows Elaith has been involved in, its an interesting conundrum for him, but I think more that doing the right thing for the right reasons, I think that you can start to see a little of the "Elaith is useful, and is a known quantity" mindset seeping into Danilo, the direct influence of Khelben. I could be wrong, and Danilo could be doing what he does for completely altruistic reasons, but while I don't think his heart is in the wrong place, I think that this story could be a sort of stepping stone to Danilo's realization in the Knights of Samular that he is more a product of the Blackstaff than he might like to acknowledge . . . or maybe I'm just reading into this in a sort of "backwards" manner given the information in that story.
Perhaps I'm being an optimist, but I thought Danilo tried to acquit Elaith because he thought it was the right thing to do. Elaith might be a criminal...but that doesn't mean he should be punished for a crime he didn't commit. I've read that Batman was once in a similar quandrary with the Joker (Joker always gets away when he's in the wrong, but when he is caught for a crime he didn't commit, Batman winds up defending him).
To me, it's all about sticking to one's principles, even if the result might not be so favorable. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 20:16:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There are two other factors in the Danilo/Elaith relationship: Both have strong feelings (though not necessarily the same feelings) for Arilyn, and both have a strong reverence for all things elven.
Great point Wooly, both of those factors have a tremendous impact on their relationship.
In fact, I am inclined to think that without those two factors, the two wouldn't be friends. Arilyn likely wouldn't have much use for Elaith, either, if it wasn't his strong reverence for things elven.
I also think that Elaith's "elven-ness" is overlooked by a lot of readers -- and yet, it's one of the defining points of who he is. He's not this cool bad guy who happens to be an elf -- he's an elf who happens to be a bad guy. There's an important distinction there, but a lot of people seem to miss it.
I agree, in fact I have always thought that Elaith would have killed Danilo early on if it weren't for Arilyn. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 19:34:50
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There are two other factors in the Danilo/Elaith relationship: Both have strong feelings (though not necessarily the same feelings) for Arilyn, and both have a strong reverence for all things elven.
Great point Wooly, both of those factors have a tremendous impact on their relationship.
In fact, I am inclined to think that without those two factors, the two wouldn't be friends. Arilyn likely wouldn't have much use for Elaith, either, if it wasn't his strong reverence for things elven.
I also think that Elaith's "elven-ness" is overlooked by a lot of readers -- and yet, it's one of the defining points of who he is. He's not this cool bad guy who happens to be an elf -- he's an elf who happens to be a bad guy. There's an important distinction there, but a lot of people seem to miss it. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 16:21:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There are two other factors in the Danilo/Elaith relationship: Both have strong feelings (though not necessarily the same feelings) for Arilyn, and both have a strong reverence for all things elven.
Great point Wooly, both of those factors have a tremendous impact on their relationship. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 15:31:57
There are two other factors in the Danilo/Elaith relationship: Both have strong feelings (though not necessarily the same feelings) for Arilyn, and both have a strong reverence for all things elven. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 13:40:13
Oh he's certainly more like Khelben than he likes to admit. But I do think that him knowing what Elaith is capable of works both ways, he knows the evil he is capable of, but he also knows the honor, nobility, and *winces* good he is capable of as well. It seems that since Elaith will never be given the benefit of the doubt by the general populace (and rightfully so given his reputation) Danilo puts some faith in Elaith simply hoping that he lives up to it. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 11:11:56
Oh, I agree, but I wonder if his friendship with a person capable of the things that Elaith is capable of might not be one of those things that starts to let Danilo know he may have more of Khelben's disposition than he previously realized. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 04:29:57
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Given all of the dark deeds that Danilo knows Elaith has been involved in, its an interesting conundrum for him, but I think more that doing the right thing for the right reasons, I think that you can start to see a little of the "Elaith is useful, and is a known quantity" mindset seeping into Danilo, the direct influence of Khelben.
I took it as a result of Danilo and Elaith's (I hesitate to say it) friendship. However tenuous, these two have developed a loyalty to one another that seems to transcend their differences. Theirs is a complex relationship which to me makes it all the more interesting. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 23:03:57
First off, I have to say that for a serious, interesting story that hinges on a mystery, I'm now sorely tempted to write a spell called Speak with Entre, but enough of that . . .
I always think that its an interesting change of pace when someone that ostensibly deserves the punishment that might be meted out is innocent of the crime at hand. Do the characters involved see it as "cosmic justice" and let the character fall to his fate, or do they make sure that if the malefactor in questions is ever punished, its for the right reasons?
Given all of the dark deeds that Danilo knows Elaith has been involved in, its an interesting conundrum for him, but I think more that doing the right thing for the right reasons, I think that you can start to see a little of the "Elaith is useful, and is a known quantity" mindset seeping into Danilo, the direct influence of Khelben. I could be wrong, and Danilo could be doing what he does for completely altruistic reasons, but while I don't think his heart is in the wrong place, I think that this story could be a sort of stepping stone to Danilo's realization in the Knights of Samular that he is more a product of the Blackstaff than he might like to acknowledge . . . or maybe I'm just reading into this in a sort of "backwards" manner given the information in that story. |
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