| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 05 Apr 2007 : 09:10:56
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Unclean (Book 1 of The Haunted Lands), by Richard Lee Byers. Please discuss chapters 12 - 15 and the epilogue herein: |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 07:47:59
After reading this book, I told myself, "Finally, another Realms magnum opus!" Thanks, Richard! I really had fun reading this last year, and sorry that I found time to comment on it just now. (I already finished the trilogy last year  )
This is one of the few books that I reread, for I very rarely do such thing. As Stephen King puts it, "I don't reread books because life is short. But I have a few exceptions."
You handled well the job of altering Thay in its physical and political forms. Have I mentioned Thay is one of my favorite realms? Anyway, I also like how you present Szass Tam. I think you did your research pretty well, for I did not notice anything he did in this book that was so far from his character as seen in "Red Magic," "Red Ambition," and some previously published novels and short stories where he made cameo roles.
Moreover, I like it that you chose a wizard and a bard to be the stars in this book. I am not a fighter fan, and don't think there's a chance I will be. (God, I have not even read even a single Drizzt novel, or RAS novel for that matter.) Their development as believable characters is one of this book's greatest strengths.
Continue writing! You're damn best at it!
I voted for you in the poll for FR favorite author. Didn't take me long to decide. Your works are instant classics.
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| Tremaine |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 12:00:43
i went out and brought this novel after reading the tale about Mirrior and Bareris
in realms of the dead as as I really enjoyed it.
finished reading Unclean was brilliant read
the only slight bit of disappointment I had was that I didn't get to see mirror earlier and had to wait towards the latter stage of the novel as I think his a great character amongst many in the novel, I had hoped to see more of him but I guess he will have more screen time of him hopefully in the second book?
Malark's another great character can't wait to find more about him particular liked chapter 5 where he cornered the old legionnaire
can i ask a stupid Question about Aoth and Brightwing, can all riders and mounts talk to each other or is because she and Aoth are connected because she a Familiar?
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 29 Jan 2008 : 05:46:51
That's actually all I was hoping for. Good to hear. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 22:28:04
Hoondatha: Glad you enjoyed it. As Theophilus says, I'm keeping my mouth shut about what comes next, and that includes the time frame of the overall trilogy, because I don't want to spoil any of the surprises. But I will say that the trilogy is going to unfold as it was conceived from the start. So, while you may or may not like it (obviously, I hope you will!), you don't have to worry that I had one story in mind, and then had to make big, illogical, dramatically ineffective changes part way through to fit the company game plan. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 21:55:13
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I also enjoyed it, though it's taken me half of forever to actually sit down and *read* it. But now all these mentions of Thay in civil war make a lot more sense. :)
One question I haven't seen asked, though, is how the upcoming 4e transition is affecting novel lines. I noticed that at least one (the "Realms of...") book and maybe the one before it as well are published after the 4e change-over. Is WotC letting the existing story lines naturally conclude even if they're published after the change?
I sure hope so, because I'd hate to see such a promising start ruined that way.
Hoondatha - I asked this earlier in the thread  |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 18:15:12
I also enjoyed it, though it's taken me half of forever to actually sit down and *read* it. But now all these mentions of Thay in civil war make a lot more sense. :)
One question I haven't seen asked, though, is how the upcoming 4e transition is affecting novel lines. I noticed that at least one (the "Realms of...") book and maybe the one before it as well are published after the 4e change-over. Is WotC letting the existing story lines naturally conclude even if they're published after the change?
I sure hope so, because I'd hate to see such a promising start ruined that way. |
| Galaeron |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 22:30:06
I really enjoyed the novel, especially that characters were so diverse. Heroic, mysterious, ambitious, selfish, arrogant - old Szass was rightly EPIC.
I believe the rest of the Zulkirs will lose, because they are not really united at heart. They are so fragile because they lack old Tam's ambition - Szass Tam can forsee further beyond. He stands alone though not of ignorance, but of strong will and absolute cunning.
Undead disgust me yet I'd follow Szass because he can LEAD. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 04:31:06
Red: Glad you liked it. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 01:21:12
Richard,
Excellent book. A damn fine read. I have to admit I was not real fired up about a trilogy of Red Wizards, but seeing as how it was you writing it, I gave it a fair chance. I am glad I did, I was facinated and drawn into your story. I cannnot wait for the next installment. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 11:01:37
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
<<I was thinking of something else that might entertain you Sleyvas - remember that Malark <<killed a guardsman - if he didn't dispose of the body satisfactorily then Szass may have <<access to the guardsman's body and his memories - wouldn't it be ironic if he met his <<fate as a result of this?
Hmmm, intrigued but I must confess I don't recall the killing of the guardsman... nor what memory he might have that would threaten Malark. Was the guardsman old and remembered Malark, such that Tam might start wondering how old the man is? If that's the case, then yes it would be interesting. I want to see what happens with Malark in particular. Too often the long-lived folk of the realms are wizards. Its interesting to see someone else.
Spoiler alert!
Well Malark told him quite a lot actually - that he was an apostate monk of the Order of the Long Death, that he was under the effect of some anti-aging magic philter, that he worked for Flass - and it seems that the book just has Malark killing him and leaving the body in the lane - I at least think it would be interesting to see what Szass could do with that information. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 17:09:02
<<I was thinking of something else that might entertain you Sleyvas - remember that Malark <<killed a guardsman - if he didn't dispose of the body satisfactorily then Szass may have <<access to the guardsman's body and his memories - wouldn't it be ironic if he met his <<fate as a result of this?
Hmmm, intrigued but I must confess I don't recall the killing of the guardsman... nor what memory he might have that would threaten Malark. Was the guardsman old and remembered Malark, such that Tam might start wondering how old the man is? If that's the case, then yes it would be interesting. I want to see what happens with Malark in particular. Too often the long-lived folk of the realms are wizards. Its interesting to see someone else. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 10:11:30
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>Theophilus: At the risk of annoying you, I'm even going to pass on answering that >>question. Sotty about that, but I really do think keeping my mouth shut about...well, >>damn near everything, really...is the way to maximize your enjoyment of the trilogy.
Ah, but Richard, speculation is half the fun (maybe even 3/4's <g>). We wouldn't want hints (or at least I wouldn't). In the end, you throw ideas out there, and sometimes someone comes up with something you had never thought of..... like Theophilus just brought up about Tam not necessarily being Tam..... very interesting idea! It couldn't be ORDINARY compulsion magic if he were instead being controlled, but I can see someone using his phylactery somehow to steal his body and confine his "essence" (reluctant to say soul with undead... though it would seem the most appropriate word). In fact, it would be very similar to how I've thought old Velsharoon attained his divinity (using Mellifleur's phylactery). Whether it were Vel or Larloch, both would be or should be capable of this... and both had recent interaction. Plots within Plots, very nice.
I was thinking of something else that might entertain you Sleyvas - remember that Malark killed a guardsman - if he didn't dispose of the body satisfactorily then Szass may have access to the guardsman's body and his memories - wouldn't it be ironic if he met his fate as a result of this? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 14:10:48
>>Theophilus: At the risk of annoying you, I'm even going to pass on answering that >>question. Sotty about that, but I really do think keeping my mouth shut about...well, >>damn near everything, really...is the way to maximize your enjoyment of the trilogy.
Ah, but Richard, speculation is half the fun (maybe even 3/4's <g>). We wouldn't want hints (or at least I wouldn't). In the end, you throw ideas out there, and sometimes someone comes up with something you had never thought of..... like Theophilus just brought up about Tam not necessarily being Tam..... very interesting idea! It couldn't be ORDINARY compulsion magic if he were instead being controlled, but I can see someone using his phylactery somehow to steal his body and confine his "essence" (reluctant to say soul with undead... though it would seem the most appropriate word). In fact, it would be very similar to how I've thought old Velsharoon attained his divinity (using Mellifleur's phylactery). Whether it were Vel or Larloch, both would be or should be capable of this... and both had recent interaction. Plots within Plots, very nice. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 04:56:04
Sure, let's talk about it when the trilogy's done. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 02:29:03
Richard: No problems - perhaps you'll revisit the question after the series?
*Its more a question concerning the mechanics of writing i.e. suppose you present your idea and the editor nixes it based on system mechanics/viability and how you deal with this creatively especially mid-series etc.
I'll leave it until '09 though! :) Keep up the great work! |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 01:39:16
Theophilus: At the risk of annoying you, I'm even going to pass on answering that question. Sotty about that, but I really do think keeping my mouth shut about...well, damn near everything, really...is the way to maximize your enjoyment of the trilogy. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 00:58:57
Richard: :) Thanks.
But I do have a serious question for you if you'll indulge me:
Will the 4th ed changes impact on your novels? i.e. will you have to tinker certain aspects to fit within those new parameters? I'm curious to hear how it impacts, if at all, on your writing, especially mid-series.
Sleyvas:
I was thinking something along the same lines - it would be in Velsharoon's interest to help Szass if Szass could establish Velsharoon's worship amongst the living population as a primary faith. An interesting twist would be that this would give Szass access to clerics/priests which could benefit his forces significantly (considering that just about every other faith is against him currently) and throw up a few suprises for his enemies. (It's also interesting that it seems that Velsharoon is apparently the only Thayvian to have assumed divinity (Is this correct?) and his interests in the whole conflict are multi-faceted (portfolio,national,personal).
*There is also another totally far out idea which I was considering which is that Szass isn't actually Szass - imagine that Szass was somehow secretly destroyed/confined and someone/thing had assumed his identity and provoked the civil war to seriously damage Thay (possibly irrecoverably). There are a number of parties which would benefit from something like that happening...
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| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 22:59:24
Jeez, you already know Book 2 will be all-out civil war in Thay with all the principal characters from Book 1 in the thick of it. What else do you need?
Seriously, I'm reluctant to spoil any of the surprises, so I'm going to pass on providing teasers. I'll just say that I think Book 2 will deliver the stuff that anyone who enjoyed Book 1 is hoping to see, but also some stuff that you probably aren't expecting. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 20:45:41
<<The undead factor is interesting too - don't forget Velsharoon - god of necromancy, who <<also just happened to be a one-time former rival of Szass' for the position of Zulkir. He <<hasn't appeared but it would be interesting to see what happens if he turns up in some <<capacity - interesting personal conflict for his portfolio.
Yessirree, THAT would be the highlight of my day to see that interaction. Is Tam doing all this to please Velsharoon by putting a spotlight on necromantic power (and thereby making his enemy turned god think him indispensable)? Is he doing it instead to build up his own power base out of jealousy? Motive is a very interesting factor here.
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| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 16:23:49
 Yes it could be great if you could share some information on the next book |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 13:20:53
Richard: Hi - and thank you for writing it! Look forward to the next instalment :) Any teasers? :P |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 01:18:51
Theophilus: Glad to hear you liked it. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 23:40:19
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Firestorm Wrote:
We want some unified destruction and Simbul forced to flee aglarond or Die.
We Do? Was there a memo?
Not that I'm aware of. No offense, Firestorm, but you don't speak for everyone.
Now now:) I wasn't attempting to speak for everyone.
However, since it has existed, Thay has been a mageocracy of a nation slated as THE most badass nation If they stopped infighting.
After almost 2 decades of the same old story arc, I kind of want to see how the world of forgotten realms would be affected if Thay was united under Szass Tam, a guy almost powerful enough to fight chosen of mystra:)
Thay is such a military powerhouse that envisioning such makes my mouth water just thinking of it. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 11:34:26
I read this novel recently and quite enjoyed it. Some interesting thoughts and conclusions have been raised by others here and I have a few of my own for consideration:
Szass's motivation - Unification? - he's partly succeeded by transforming several power factions into 2 groups - his own camp and his opposition (Flass/other Zulkirs). Does he see himself in the mold of another Thayd and is acting pre-emptively to strengthen Thay in the face of Mulhorand's resurgence and potential threat (majority conquest of Unther and desire to reclaim a rebellious province) or to extend Thay's borders at a neighbouring powers expense (an extension of Thayvian chauvinism - which comes across in the novel), or is it simply a serious power-play?
Can Szass win a full-scale civil war? Probably - every enemy he kills has the potential to join his army. The opposition have only one real winning strategy which is to destroy Szass himself - which doesn't take into account that they also have to dispose of his phylactery to actually get rid of him. I imagine that this would be extremely difficult.
I don't think a resumption to the pre-conflict status quo is now possible - the other Zulkirs would know that Szass would only assassinate them over time. External interference is possible but unlikely - I don't think the opposition could sell the idea of foreign troops (specifically historical enemies eg. Rashemen, Aglarond, Mulhorand, Chessenta) operating openly without offending Thayvian nationalism/pride - and besides why would these powers interfere when they see Thay self-destructing in civil war?
The undead factor is interesting too - don't forget Velsharoon - god of necromancy, who also just happened to be a one-time former rival of Szass' for the position of Zulkir. He hasn't appeared but it would be interesting to see what happens if he turns up in some capacity - interesting personal conflict for his portfolio.
Speculation on the consequences of defeat for Szass - necromancy is forbidden as a school of magic in Thay by the other Zulkirs?
Btw - appreciated the irony of Malark's opposition to Szass - he dislikes undead and thinks everything should live and die in its own season - a comment coming from a man who is older than Thay and doesn't age...
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 18:44:01
Firestorm: Glad you liked it. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:01:46
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Firestorm Wrote:
We want some unified destruction and Simbul forced to flee aglarond or Die.
We Do? Was there a memo?
Not that I'm aware of. No offense, Firestorm, but you don't speak for everyone. |
| initiate |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 17:39:07
Firestorm Wrote:
We want some unified destruction and Simbul forced to flee aglarond or Die.
We Do? Was there a memo?
|
| Firestorm |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 21:30:41
This book is everything I was hoping for. Lots of Focus on the Zulkirs and Szass Tam in particular.
Sadly, it does not bode well for Tam that just about every chapter is from the Point of View of people who want him dead. If the point of View generally refers him as the bad guy everyone wants to stop, Im not sure how he could win unless the main characters all die off or the author wants to write a dark book:)
Personally, I want Tam to win. A united Thay would make the surrounding countries tremble. Heck, everyone wants change in this region. Its been the same old "red wizards are bad and fight like drow" crap for too long. We want some unified destruction and Simbul forced to flee aglarond or Die.
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| Skeptic |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 01:41:43
I didn't liked Year of the Rogue Dragons, but I definetly loved this one, for the same reasons many others have said here.
I'll have to think what made them so different in my eyes, because I don't think it's only about the plot/location/characters.
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| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 01:35:54
Thanks for the kind words, Crust. I'm glad you liked it.
That list of important characters was at the front of the book when I turned it in. I'm not sure why WotC thought it was a good idea to relocate it to the back, but I guess they had their reasons. |
