| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 17:17:34
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Frostfell (Book 4 of The Wizards series), by Mark Sehestedt. Please discuss chapters 27 - 32 herein. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 07:19:25
A nice book. I had fun reading it! It's good to see how a lesser wizard can still manage to rise above an impasse, with seemingly insufficient magic on hand, facing villains almost as old as time.
I have a question, Mark. I find that hag who sucked fish bones and wanted to eat the humans quite mysterious and interesting. Is she your own creation? Did she appear in other books? Why is she afraid of the belkagen? Can you tell me more about her?
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| Alisttair |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 18:11:45
quote:
Originally posted by Mark S.
quote:
Originally posted by Besshalar
PPS. I wish you had put the phrasebook in the beginning because I didn't notice it until the end . :)
Duly noted. If it comes up again, I'll tell the editor.
Would just like to point out that Mark S. was true to his word here, as the phrasebook is at the beginning of "Sentinelspire".
KUDOS and as well Frostfell was an excellent read. Am enjoying Sentinelspire 80 pages in so far also. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 18:36:29
I've wanted to read the book since I saw the cover, and I'm glad it lived up to the expectations. It's so nice when a new author (or an experienced author, I'm not picky) actually does his homework, and it's especially nice when they then just blend it in. The way the Tuigan were handled, the introduction of a new lythari culture, the hints of fallen empires, it was all nicely handled. I agree with whoever said above that game elements were blended in nicely so that they didn't hit you over the head with them.
It took me a while to decide what I thought about the flowering tree scene, since it at first seemed like a blatantly obvious Return of the King rip-off. I think the reason I finally decided I didn't mind was the hag character that played off the tree in the scene was so completely different from anything in Tolkien that it was ok. But if she'd been anyone else, I think I'd have disliked the scene greatly. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 18:35:00
I've wanted to read the book since I saw the cover, and I'm glad it lived up to the expectations. It's so nice when a new author (or an experienced author, I'm not picky) actually does his homework, and it's especially nice when they then just blend it in. The way the Tuigan were handled, the introduction of a new lythari culture, the hints of fallen empires, it was all nicely handled. I agree with whoever said above that game elements were blended in nicely so that they didn't hit you over the head with them.
It took me a while to decide what I thought about the flowering tree scene, since it at first seemed like a blatantly obvious Return of the King rip-off. I think the reason I finally decided I didn't mind was the hag character that played off the tree in the scene was so completely different from anything in Tolkien that it was ok. But if she'd been anyone else, I think I'd have disliked the scene greatly. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 21:33:14
Other than Blackstaff, this was the only book in the wizards series that totally captured me while I was reading it.
Kudos for an excellent book. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 00:49:21
quote:
Originally posted by Mark S.
quote:
Originally posted by Trizzt08
Very Good book. It'd be nice to see them in another book sometime. Great stuff man keep up the good work
Thanks for the kind words.
Two of the characters from FROSTFELL make an appearance in my REALMS OF WAR short story.
I really enjoyed the book, so its good to hear that the characters will be back in some capacity . . . thanks for the heads up. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 00:18:15
quote:
Originally posted by Mark S.
quote:
Originally posted by Trizzt08
Very Good book. It'd be nice to see them in another book sometime. Great stuff man keep up the good work
Thanks for the kind words.
Two of the characters from FROSTFELL make an appearance in my REALMS OF WAR short story.
It will be nice to see characters from this book again. |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 13 Jul 2007 : 17:27:50
quote:
Originally posted by Trizzt08
Very Good book. It'd be nice to see them in another book sometime. Great stuff man keep up the good work
Thanks for the kind words.
Two of the characters from FROSTFELL make an appearance in my REALMS OF WAR short story.
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| Trizzt08 |
Posted - 09 Jul 2007 : 10:44:14
Very Good book. It'd be nice to see them in another book sometime. Great stuff man keep up the good work |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Apr 2007 : 03:52:35
Overall, I really liked the book, and it definately "worked" for me, but at the same time, you are right, the final battle did get a bit confusing and difficult to follow. Not a fatal flaw by any means, but yes, its there. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Apr 2007 : 00:52:33
I just finished the book today. Wonderful reading--again, very different in a good way and I enjoyed the focus on characters, their history and their interaction with each other.
The final battle with the sorcerers DID leave me cold though (pun intended ;)). There was just so much going on, and since only two of the sorcerers were named, it got hard to tell which sorcerer got enveloped in flames, which fell into the water, and so forth. Also, while I liked how Jalan and Gyaidun were able to bring Erun back to hs old self, how come they couldn't do that with any of the other sorcerers? Those guys were, after all, supposed to be of the same celestial bloodine as Erun was.
Anyway, I appreciated the loose ends that were left open--it's not entirely clear that Erun will be made the next belkagen, because the oracle is not predictable and she may truly "have his blood" instead. The reference to the soul as a kind of "fire" was lovely as well, considering the rest of the story is so...well, cold. |
| Kyrene |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 05:46:03
I read the first chapter/prologue that Wizards posted on the product page for this and was hooked already. I had to wait while longer to actually get this book (we're always a little behind here in my country), but it was well worth it. I finished this one in about two evenings of reading.
I liked the culture shock, dramatic scene changes (always leaving that little "cliff hanger"), interesting protagonists and great story all round. I felt the ending battle with “the five”--did anyone else feel like they resembled ring wraiths?--was a little bit flat, especially since Erun and the desiccated apprentice seemed to feature a lot stronger than their leader (I forget his name now, the one who originally betrayed Arantar) who was supposed to be a lot more powerful.
Apart from that, the rest of the book crackled in frosty goodness. More back story would have been better, but I actually liked the fact that you could care for most of the characters even if they remained enigmas throughout the book. I didn’t really connect to the belkagan, but I guess it was his duality that made me dislike him from the start and I just never got over it. Some back story to explain his motives more would probably have helped in that regard. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 04:48:28
quote:
Originally posted by Mark S.
Not really. As I understand it, lythari aren't able to use the hybrid form.
In "game terms," Lendri is a Wildrunner. See Races of the Wild pages 139-144. What was going on during part of that last fight was right off page 140 of RotW: "In this frenzy [Primal Scream]...your jaw elongates and your teeth become razor-sharp; you gain a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage. You can wield a weapon in one or both hands at your normal attack bonus and make a secondary bite attack...." There's more, but that's the gist of it.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR[/i]One thing that it made me wonder is if lythari DO have a hybrid form, but its "taboo" to use it.
As I understand it, lythari do not have a hybrid form, but I defer completely to Mr. Greenwood and Elaine Cunningham on that one.
Actually, if it was the class feature of the Wildrunner PrC, then I'd much rather go with that. One of the things I have always liked about lythari is that they aren't just "elven werewolves," so I like that this is the explanation.
Again, very good book, and I think you did an excellent job of not just telling a good story, but telling a good story in the Realms. Here's to hoping you get a chance to tell more of them, and thanks for your reply. |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 04:25:55
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Just finished the book, and I definately enjoyed the book overall.
Thanks very much, sir! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJRI could definately see Hro'nyewachu as a singularly powerful fey creature, and I think that fits well with the original idea of the Lythari being close to the fey powers even over the Seldarine.
That was definitely my own view, but I didn't want the book to set that in stone. I wanted to leave it vague enough that readers could draw their own conclusions, gamers could come up with their own interpretation, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR Just to make sure that I read this right though, Lendri did use a hybrid form at the end, didn't he?
Not really. As I understand it, lythari aren't able to use the hybrid form.
In "game terms," Lendri is a Wildrunner. See Races of the Wild pages 139-144. What was going on during part of that last fight was right off page 140 of RotW: "In this frenzy [Primal Scream]...your jaw elongates and your teeth become razor-sharp; you gain a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage. You can wield a weapon in one or both hands at your normal attack bonus and make a secondary bite attack...." There's more, but that's the gist of it.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR[/i]One thing that it made me wonder is if lythari DO have a hybrid form, but its "taboo" to use it.
As I understand it, lythari do not have a hybrid form, but I defer completely to Mr. Greenwood and Elaine Cunningham on that one.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 22:40:33
Just finished the book, and I definately enjoyed the book overall. I actually am glad that the story wasn't a Amira meets Gyaidun, then they pick up Lendri and the Belkagan and they trek across the Wastes figting various things from Frostburn and the Monster Manual. Mark did a very good job, in my opinion, of working various monsters and classes and D&D elements into the book, but in a very subtle manner, and the focus of the story definately stayed on the characters and the unique elements of the story, such as the oracle, the Lythari culture, the difference between the Eastern and Western realms, and the like.
I could definately see Hro'nyewachu as a singularly powerful fey creature, and I think that fits well with the original idea of the Lythari being close to the fey powers even over the Seldarine.
In general, I'm not a big fan of porting cultures into the Realms, and I'm not a big fan of using phrases and languages from existing cultures (other than english, since you have to be able to tell the story, obviously) in the Realms, but I have to say that Mark did an excellent job of using elements of Native American culture to flesh out the lythari and to create a framework for them, instead of using an existing culture as a substitute for it. I think he did an excellent job of weaving some parts of Native American culture, the Horde mentality, what little we have glimpsed of the lythari before, and of elves overall into something unique, so overall it worked out well (but I'm still not a fan of real world phrases used too much).
I also think that Mark did a very good job of throwing in the little bits we do know about the lythari into the story, as well as doing the homework on Cormyr and the War Wizards as well. Just to make sure that I read this right though, Lendri did use a hybrid form at the end, didn't he? I was a little awash in everything that was going on at that point in the story, and I reread the passage, so I'm pretty sure he did. I was always of fan of the idea that Lythari didn't have hybrid forms, and no one else in the story seems to have a hybrid form, so I was wondering if this was a unique circumstance.
One thing that it made me wonder is if lythari DO have a hybrid form, but its "taboo" to use it (kind of like wookies having claws but it being dishonorable for them to use them in combat, to use a Star Wars analogy).
While I am still wondering at the exact event that cause the "honored exile" of Gyaidun and Lendri, I kind of like the idea that it wasn't fully spelled out by the end of the book. Not only does it give some texture to the story, but it gives us a good reason to have the characters show up again sometime.
Mark did an excellent job for his first Realms novel, and I hope that he gets a chance to write more stories in the Realms, especially considering the attention to history and tone of the setting that he showed in this book. |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:50:07
quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
I guess I was hoping for some sort of reconciliation between Lendri and his father - but I suppose that was not meant to be.
Well, not yet anyway. I've gots lots of stories in my head with these characters -- occurring both before and after Frostfell. As much as I wanted to cram them all into this story, that would have entailed a 4-book series of 1500+ pages.
quote:
Originally posted by DhomalI know you mentioned finding an error - and I'm curious - but I wont ask directly! :) However - I wonder if the following is a minor glitch: On P 195 in the 1st full para. there is the word 'streaming' - and it seems to be out of place - and I thought the word would work better as 'screaming' - typo?
D'oh! Yup. Good catch. That is indeed a typo.
Right after the book came out, I found a pretty big continuity error in the story, but since no one else seems to have caught it, and since I didn't write it down and have since forgotten, we'll just pretend it never happened. 
quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal Are there currently any other stories of yours out there?
Well, the only one currently published is a short story I did for a Dragonlance anthology. The story is "Osuin's Treasure," found in the DL anthology The Search for Power. There's more stuff in the works, but I'm not allowed to spill specifics until the catalogue comes out.
quote:
Originally posted by DhomalMany thanks for such a chilling read! I only hope I can shake my sickness now that I have finished!
I hope you feel better soon. Thanks for your kind words on the book.
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| Dhomal |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 16:02:50
Hello-
Well - I will alos add my comments of really liking the book! :)
As it happens - I had some time off from work last week - that turned into sickness at the end. (I was working so hard during the holidays - that my body just stopped fighting when I had my off-time - and I got sick.)
I started reading the book early in the week -and I realized that it was somewhat ironic that I was reading it while waiting for my g/f in several stores - and it was cold outside. :)
We have had such a mild winter before last week -a nd then Pow! Cold and such - and the last few days - rain/sleet/ice etc. All in all - the weather outside has emulated the feel I got from the book - making me almost 'feel' the story as opposed to just reading it. :)
As for the story - I greatly enjoyed your use of the 'outsider' point of view. Amira worked wonderfully for that.
I guess I was hoping for some sort of reconciliation between Lendri and his father - but I suppose that was not meant to be.
I too am curious as to the future for Erun and Jalan - but I must admit - more for Jalan - as the future for Erun is hinted at.
That and it seems like maybe Amira will stay in 'the Wastes' with Gaiudon (*I know I butchered the spelling*).
I know you mentioned finding an error - and I'm curious - but I wont ask directly! :) However - I wonder if the following is a minor glitch: On P 195 in the 1st full para. there is the word 'streaming' - and it seems to be out of place - and I thought the word would work better as 'screaming' - typo?
In closing - I too would welcome any additional stories you have to offer! Are there currently any other stories of yours out there?
Many thanks for such a chilling read! I only hope I can shake my sickness now that I have finished!
Dhomal |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 23:50:58
Thanks to everyone for the kind words, encouragement, and the criticism. Much appreciated!
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| Lord Rad |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 19:51:58
Nice tale. I was especially impressed with the fight scenes. I often get bored with them and loose track of the events, but this was made quite varied and interesting and kept me reading right through. |
| Conlon |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 02:43:40
Mark,
Add my name to the list of new fans. To echo some sentiments earlier expressed, I only wish that you had been given the freedom of more pages with which to tell your tale. I really would have liked to have read more about Amira's past, Gyaidun & Lendri, and Hro'nyewachu. Very interesting characters. It also seemed like the relationship between Amira and Gyaidun was starting to develop. Unfortunately, there wasn't space to allow it to flourish.
I think that your plotline was great as well. The use of the celestial bloodline was well done, and I am totally going to use the lythari in my current campaign. I had been tossing the idea around, but now it is as good as done.
I will be watching for your next book and will be sure to snap it up. Good luck, and I hope to see your name on a book cover again in the near future.
Thanks |
| Prince Forge of Avalon |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 17:33:09
Mark,
Just finsihed your book, And I have to say I really enjoyed it!!
It was a totally different kind of realms book, and that really intrested me - I would say my favorite creation was Hro'nyewachu! I found her REALLY intresting and I kept wondering all through the rest of the book "what is she?".
I would love to read more on the characters and see their further adventures!
Thanks for the Read - It was GREAT!! |
| Braveheart |
Posted - 23 Dec 2006 : 23:10:35
quote:
Originally posted by Mark S.
There was another war wizard in the original outline, but he was cut due to lack of space. Remember the scene where Amira and Gyaidun fight the Tuigan and take their horses? In the original outline, those Tuigan had taken another wizard prisoner, and the fight was more of a rescue scene. But I just didn't have time to let that branch of the story grow, so I lopped it off.
That would've been fun to read, but you probably would've had a problem with the pagecount too.
quote:
James Cameron and Peter Jackson still haven't called. They were my top choices now that Sergio Leone is dead. 
Hm, what about Clint Eastwood? He could play the belkagen, for example 
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| Mark S. |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 21:24:22
quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
Personally I would have preferred a scene with the other War Wizards of Cormyr (battling the Frostfolk, for examplte), but that would probably have introduced too many characters at the beginning.
There was another war wizard in the original outline, but he was cut due to lack of space. Remember the scene where Amira and Gyaidun fight the Tuigan and take their horses? In the original outline, those Tuigan had taken another wizard prisoner, and the fight was more of a rescue scene. But I just didn't have time to let that branch of the story grow, so I lopped it off.
quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart Have you sold the film rights yet?
James Cameron and Peter Jackson still haven't called. They were my top choices now that Sergio Leone is dead.
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| Braveheart |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 12:57:01
Hi Mark!
I enjoyed your book, especially the narrating style, which didn't concentrate too much on spells, fighting, etc. I have to agree with RodOdom that a few flashbacks would have done a lot to involve the reader more emotionally. Personally I would have preferred a scene with the other War Wizards of Cormyr (battling the Frostfolk, for examplte), but that would probably have introduced too many characters at the beginning.
By the way: Have you sold the film rights yet?
Yours,
Braveheart |
| RodOdom |
Posted - 22 Dec 2006 : 01:04:06
Thank you so much for listening ! |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 20:19:04
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I don't think there is anything wrong or lacking with the characters at all, per se. But perhaps some flashbacks to say Amira and Jalan's earlier life at High Horn would have given me a more emotional view of them. Or maybe Gwaidun's time with his family before they were broken apart by the Nar demons. I didn't get to see enough of their sympathetic side to balance out their more antagonistic relationships ( Amira vs. Gyaidun, Amira vs. her countrymen, Gyaidun vs. his shaman, Lendri vs. his father and tribesmen.)
I liked the cat-and-mouse chase between Amira and Jalan's kidnappers in the early chapters. My main dissatisfaction with the plot is that I was expecting more of the chase, but then the focus turned to the Lythari, the Ruamathar/Nar backstory, Amira's ordeal with the oracle. It would have been fun to see Amira and Gyaidun just almost catching up with the wolf-riders, or Jalan just almost escaping. So I think I was wrong to say the plot was flat. What I should have said was that I didn't get a sense of continual urgency from one point to the other during the story.
Those are all great suggestions. I too wanted more in the story, but I had the constraint of making sure everything fit into 320 pages. In crafting the outline, things got snipped out. There was a big scene developing Gyaidun and Lendri's backstory that had to go. An entire character was cut simply because I didn't have space to develop him, and I didn't want him to feel tacked on.
The obvious solution, of course, is for everyone to go out and buy 20 copies for your friends and family. Maybe if the book sells gangbusters then WotC will beg for a sequel.
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdomI do very much want to read FR stories different from say Ed Greenwood's or Elaine Cunnigham's. I appreciated how you took familiar settings and concepts in FR and tried to show us something different through them.
Thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate it, and I'll keep it all in mind for the future. |
| RodOdom |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 19:23:38
I don't think there is anything wrong or lacking with the characters at all, per se. But perhaps some flashbacks to say Amira and Jalan's earlier life at High Horn would have given me a more emotional view of them. Or maybe Gwaidun's time with his family before they were broken apart by the Nar demons. I didn't get to see enough of their sympathetic side to balance out their more antagonistic relationships ( Amira vs. Gyaidun, Amira vs. her countrymen, Gyaidun vs. his shaman, Lendri vs. his father and tribesmen.)
I liked the cat-and-mouse chase between Amira and Jalan's kidnappers in the early chapters. My main dissatisfaction with the plot is that I was expecting more of the chase, but then the focus turned to the Lythari, the Ruamathar/Nar backstory, Amira's ordeal with the oracle. It would have been fun to see Amira and Gyaidun just almost catching up with the wolf-riders, or Jalan just almost escaping. So I think I was wrong to say the plot was flat. What I should have said was that I didn't get a sense of continual urgency from one point to the other during the story.
I do very much want to read FR stories different from say Ed Greenwood's or Elaine Cunnigham's. I appreciated how you took familiar settings and concepts in FR and tried to show us something different through them. |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 17:31:39
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I'm sorry but I didn't find Frostfell very enjoyable. For me, none of the characters were emotionally interesting enough to make me want to find out what happens to them. The plot was sort of flat.
I hope I'm not coming across as mean-spirited.
Not at all. Books are like anything else. Everyone has different tastes. Your honest criticism is much appreciated.
I do wish you could be a bit more specific though. What about the characters did you not find "emotionally interesting?" Was the conflict not grave enough, or did I simply not do a good job in conveying it? Did you have no sympathy for their plight? What might I have done (or do in the future) to increase your emotional investment in the characters?
And what do you mean by the plot being flat? Not enough surprises for you? Could you guess the ending fairly early on? Not enough twists and turns? Was it too different from typical FR stories, or not different enough?
Help me help you! 
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| RodOdom |
Posted - 17 Dec 2006 : 16:38:49
I'm sorry but I didn't find Frostfell very enjoyable. For me, none of the characters were emotionally interesting enough to make me want to find out what happens to them. The plot was sort of flat.
I hope I'm not coming across as mean-spirited. There were certainly some gems of great, eerie imagery (the introduction of the Witness tree, for example.) |
| Mark S. |
Posted - 12 Dec 2006 : 00:27:20
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
The Witness tree budding did not mean that the line of Raumathyr kings was restored, right?
Yes and no. Technically, Jalan is related to the Raumathari rulers. His great-great-great-etc. grandfather was married to the ruler's sister. So he is related to that line through a very distant grandmother, but then again so is Erun. And so are lots of people throughout the Waste and nearby regions. The blood is particularly strong in Erun and Jalan though.
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJackIt meant that the time was near for Vyailedon to be released, right?
Yup.
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
So we don't have to wonder about another ancient Realms kingdom being restored, right?
That's really not up to me. That's more of a larger question for Mr. Greenwood, WotC, etc. But it was certainly not my intention to begin building a new kingdom out in the Waste.
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJackOne more question; in an earlier post you mentioned that the character's classes were drawn from Races of the Wild?
Yup. The Belkagen is basically a modified Arcane Hierophant. Lendri (as well as many of the Vil Adanrath) are Wildrunners. (Read between the lines and you'll see the Primal Scream.) Gyaidun is a ruathar. In a few places, the book hinted that Gyaidun had "special abilities" because he and Lendri are blood brothers.
The Frost Folk are right out of FROSTBURN.
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJackThanks for a good book>
Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you liked it!
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