| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 16:50:47
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Shadowbred (Book 1 of The Twilight War trilogy), by Paul S. Kemp. Please discuss chapters 14 - 17 herein. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 08:42:19
While I find the first few chapters so dragging and boring, I am relieved that from the middle to the end the excitement starts and rarely wanes. This has easily become one of my favorite FR novels.
Paul, your introduction of the Shadovar to the story was well played out. And I think I should mention that the main reason I read this and the next two books is them.
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 19:42:55
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Question: I wonder where Cale got his weapon. Is there a story detailing that? and does that weapon have special properties that helps Cale fight the Shades? It seemed to be more effective against them than the attecks Riven made... Is it somehow tied to the events of the Avatar trilogy (meaning: mighti t be the same weapon that Mystra gave Mask to fend off Kezef? Lastly: the power infused in the sword by the Source - did it stay in the weapon indefenitly or was this just a temporary effect?
Clarifications are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Ergdusch
Ergdusch,
I'm delighted that you enjoyed the novel. I hope Shadowstorm works for you, too.
As for Weaveshear, Cale comes by it in the first book of The Erevis Cale Trilogy, Twilight Falling. Essentially, his sword is transformed via its...contact with a particular item. It is, arguably, a "gift" from Mask.
It's powers are generally best used against those who draw power through the Weave, rather than the Shadow Weave, which is why its absorption power was not initially effective against the Shade Princes' spells. Near the end of Shadowbred, when Magadon uses the Source to infuse Weaveshear with additional power, that particular weakness is temporarily eliminated.
I will look out for further refereces of this weapon as I read on. Thanks for the fast answer, Paul. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 13:58:26
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I was complaining about the 'cheap' death of the Silkirk brothers. Not a real fight and all that... Well, I must say, I was compensated for that in full! The last chapters were so captivating - I rushed through them not being able to put them aside until I finished the entire book. One event lead to the next, the wheel of events spinning ever faster it seemed. And Paul - what I have read on the last chapters: that's what I call a fight. The Kraken vs. Yhaan! The capture of Endren! and above all else: Cale vs. Rivalen! Great!
And all this ploting, scheeming, misleading! I feel a certain depth to all this - a well thought through plan, a whole picture behind all even though I cannot make it out entirely yet! Shadowstorm will hopefully help in filling out the picture a bit more. I will start reading at once..........
Thank you, Paul, for a truely enjoyable read!
Question: I wonder where Cale got his weapon. Is there a story detailing that? and does that weapon have special properties that helps Cale fight the Shades? It seemed to be more effective against them than the attecks Riven made... Is it somehow tied to the events of the Avatar trilogy (meaning: mighti t be the same weapon that Mystra gave Mask to fend off Kezef? Lastly: the power infused in the sword by the Source - did it stay in the weapon indefenitly or was this just a temporary effect?
Clarifications are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Ergdusch
Ergdusch,
I'm delighted that you enjoyed the novel. I hope Shadowstorm works for you, too.
As for Weaveshear, Cale comes by it in the first book of The Erevis Cale Trilogy, Twilight Falling. Essentially, his sword is transformed via its...contact with a particular item. It is, arguably, a "gift" from Mask.
It's powers are generally best used against those who draw power through the Weave, rather than the Shadow Weave, which is why its absorption power was not initially effective against the Shade Princes' spells. Near the end of Shadowbred, when Magadon uses the Source to infuse Weaveshear with additional power, that particular weakness is temporarily eliminated. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 12:33:01
I was complaining about the 'cheap' death of the Silkirk brothers. Not a real fight and all that... Well, I must say, I was compensated for that in full! The last chapters were so captivating - I rushed through them not being able to put them aside until I finished the entire book. One event lead to the next, the wheel of events spinning ever faster it seemed. And Paul - what I have read on the last chapters: that's what I call a fight. The Kraken vs. Yhaan! The capture of Endren! and above all else: Cale vs. Rivalen! Great!
And all this ploting, scheeming, misleading! I feel a certain depth to all this - a well thought through plan, a whole picture behind all even though I cannot make it out entirely yet! Shadowstorm will hopefully help in filling out the picture a bit more. I will start reading at once..........
Thank you, Paul, for a truely enjoyable read!
Question: I wonder where Cale got his weapon. Is there a story detailing that? and does that weapon have special properties that helps Cale fight the Shades? It seemed to be more effective against them than the attecks Riven made... Is it somehow tied to the events of the Avatar trilogy (meaning: mighti t be the same weapon that Mystra gave Mask to fend off Kezef? Lastly: the power infused in the sword by the Source - did it stay in the weapon indefenitly or was this just a temporary effect?
Clarifications are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Ergdusch |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 23:22:18
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Best read I have had in years. I absolutely love Rivalen. Excellent antagonist. Watching Tamlin keeps me wondering if he is eventually going to realize he is a tool, and wrong.
Firestorm,
I'm delighted you enjoyed the story. Tamlin's near-term course becomes clear by the end of Shadowstorm, so you'll have (at least a partial) answer then.
I hope you enjoy it when it hits shelves. I'm quite eager to hear what folks think of it.
Hehe. Im still in awe that I can actually talk to authors on this site. Im relatively new to this forum, but have been a fan of the realms for years:) Its great knowing my thoughts are being received.
Thank you for your response, and your hint about Tamlin. I Have the book preordered and will likely devour it within 2.5 hours of getting it, then post my thoughts here. Unless I work that day:(, at which point, it will be after I get off work(It will be so hard to get anything done knowing that book is burning a hole in my briefcase)
Ill most assuredly post my responces then. All positive I have no doubt. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 14:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Tamlin truly is a tool in more ways than one, if you catch my meaning...
Ba dum ching!  |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 14:32:57
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Best read I have had in years. I absolutely love Rivalen. Excellent antagonist. Watching Tamlin keeps me wondering if he is eventually going to realize he is a tool, and wrong.
Firestorm,
I'm delighted you enjoyed the story. Tamlin's near-term course becomes clear by the end of Shadowstorm, so you'll have (at least a partial) answer then.
I hope you enjoy it when it hits shelves. I'm quite eager to hear what folks think of it. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 01:38:34
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
I still hope his character can be somewhat redeemed. At least before he dies.
You do? Ahem, well, I'm just a bit more cold-hearted than that... My attitude often is simply:
quote:
I still hope...he dies.
On a more serious note, I suspect things will play out much as you described. But then again, Kemp's books have a way of confounding expectations. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 01:00:40
I still hope his character can be somewhat redeemed. At least before he dies. Somehow, im sure before the end of the series he will see the error of his ways and make amends, either giving his own life, or saving Cale in some way. His character HAS shown some signs of possibly growing. Its just going to be a "Cale was right" learning process.
He is a competent spellcaster, and could possibly be useful if he learned to follow instead of think he was always right, or listened to reason.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 23:58:07
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Best read I have had in years. I absolutely love Rivalen. Excellent antagonist. Watching Tamlin keeps me wondering if he is eventually going to realize he is a tool, and wrong. First, he seems like his character is growing a bit(Twilight falling), then he takes a giant leap backwards in this book. Almost to the point that I want to pull my hair out in frustration.
Tamlin truly is a tool in more ways than one, if you catch my meaning...
I thought Cale gave him the benefit of the doubt when he kept assuming that Tamlin was saying and doing all the stupid things he was because of his advisor's influence. The truth, as I saw it, was that Tamlin was just...being his normal, unlikeable self--to hell with the advisor. One of the funniest things in that book was the fact that he ended up as Hulorn precisely because he's an idiot who can be easily manipulated, not in spite of it. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 21:38:38
Best read I have had in years. I absolutely love Rivalen. Excellent antagonist. Watching Tamlin keeps me wondering if he is eventually going to realize he is a tool, and wrong. First, he seems like his character is growing a bit(Twilight falling), then he takes a giant leap backwards in this book. Almost to the point that I want to pull my hair out in frustration.
All in all, best book I have read in years. Love it and cannot wait for Shadowstorm |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Jul 2007 : 02:35:23
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
One of the challenges in writing a big story is balancing the "character issues" with the plot elements. An author has only so many pages and I decided when writing this book that the plot (no matter how big the events) could not and should not outrun the characters. I fear I'm being somewhat unclear, but what I mean is that the characters cannot be simply the device by which the plot gets illustrated and advanced. Instead, the plot, no matter how big, must be seen through the lens of the personal and the reader made to feel how the characters experience the plot. I'd always hoped that, if people talked about Shadowbred, they would talk more about the characters and the personal moments than they would the large scale events.
Does all of that make any sense? I'm struggling with how to articulate my thinking.
Yes it does, and I personally agree that big events are far more interesting when the reader gets to see how they affect individual people. I do generally believe that characters are more important than plot--I can't speak for everyone, but I always remember characters more than plot details. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 18:25:29
quote:
Originally posted by Conlon
I picked up this book this week and finished it a few days later. I also had meant to hold off on it, knowing how long I would be tortured awaiting its sequel.... It appears as though my willpower is not what it should be, for now I find myself dragging my weary, tortured carcass around, mumbling nonsense about Mephistopheles, Rivalen, and being trapped in the Source.
Anyways, in my opinion, this was a fantastic book. It really sucks having to wait so long for the sequel, but I'm confident that it will be worth it. If you are reading this Mr. Kemp, please be careful crossing the street, chewing your food, and in the handling of any firearms. For God's sake man, finger off trigger, and watch that muzzle control! If, God forbid, anything were to happen to you or George R.R. Martin, I just don't think I could bear it!
Ha. Thanks, Conlon. I'm sincerely pleased the novel worked for you. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 18:24:49
quote:
Originally posted by shuman
I know I have seen stats for Riven, Cale, etc. but has anyone attempted a writeup of Magadon? Just curious. Paul? Oh Paul? Some clues perhaps? Thanks for the wonderful fiction!
Shuman,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been away from the boards for a bit.
I'm not aware that anyone has done a formal write up of Magadon. There was an interesting discussion on the WotC boards regarding the stats for Cale, Riven, and Mags. Tom Costa contributed to that discussion and "stat out" and his work is stellar. Here's the link, if you're interested (it's a long thread): http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=751216&highlight=erevis.
As I mention there, I don't detailed write ups of my protagonists/antagonists, but I do have an idea of what they are in game terms. Magadon would be a multi-class ranger/psion (telepath), with more emphasis on the psion than ranger, and with the major fiendish bloodline. His feats would be focused primarily on his archery, and would include rapid shot, precise shot, psionic shot, greater psionic shot, and the like.
Paul |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 17:19:52
Actually it makes perfect sense to me Paul, and I think you did a really good job of making sure that the spotlight falls on the characters and not the events.
The events should be important and exciting, but I think you can lose a lot of the impact of the events if the characters don't come across as people you care about and want to know more about. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 17:08:53
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Paul really does an excellent job of making the story compelling as a whole. Its not just the "RSE" elements that make you want to keep reading this, but the personal development of Cale and his allies, and the interesting new characters that show up, like the paladin of Lathander.
One of the challenges in writing a big story is balancing the "character issues" with the plot elements. An author has only so many pages and I decided when writing this book that the plot (no matter how big the events) could not and should not outrun the characters. I fear I'm being somewhat unclear, but what I mean is that the characters cannot be simply the device by which the plot gets illustrated and advanced. Instead, the plot, no matter how big, must be seen through the lens of the personal and the reader made to feel how the characters experience the plot. I'd always hoped that, if people talked about Shadowbred, they would talk more about the characters and the personal moments than they would the large scale events.
Does all of that make any sense? I'm struggling with how to articulate my thinking. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 16:36:57
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I just finished this book--what can I say? It's awesome. It has complicated characters--do I need to say more? If RSE novels must be written, I don't think you can go wrong by having Mr. Kemp be the one to write them.
Oh, and I love how things don't get easier for Cale as he gains more power--he just gets beaten up more.
Rinonalyrna,
Thank you for the kind words. Needless to say, I'm delighted you enjoyed the novel. I hope Shadowstorm holds up well for you, too.
Paul |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Jul 2007 : 00:33:07
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have to say, I know that the Return of the Archwizards books seem to be a mixed bag as far as fans are concerned, but if Rivalen had been given this level of depth from the outset (or any of the princes other than Melegaunt), I think at least some of the more cynical fans might have been a bit more anxious to see the Shadovar as villains in other Realms books.
I still haven't read those books. I might now, since this book has kindled my interest in the Shadovar.
quote:
That having been said, Rivalen's brief appearance in Mistress of the Night was enough to pique my interest in the most spiritual of the princes, and I really liked that the events of that story tied into this one.
I have to say, mentions of other stories like that make one feel a bit "rewarded" for having read them. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 23:48:51
I have to say, I know that the Return of the Archwizards books seem to be a mixed bag as far as fans are concerned, but if Rivalen had been given this level of depth from the outset (or any of the princes other than Melegaunt), I think at least some of the more cynical fans might have been a bit more anxious to see the Shadovar as villains in other Realms books.
That having been said, Rivalen's brief appearance in Mistress of the Night was enough to pique my interest in the most spiritual of the princes, and I really liked that the events of that story tied into this one. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 23:14:06
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
You know a lot of times fight scenes can get tedious, but the fight between Rivalen and Cale was great. I loved the description of the avasculate spell . . . Paul does an excellent job of incorporating a spell description into something really horrific
Agreed, and I think Rivalen is written here as an interesting antagonist--the kind I want to read more about.
quote:
RF, you are certainly correct. Paul really does an excellent job of making the story compelling as a whole. Its not just the "RSE" elements that make you want to keep reading this, but the personal development of Cale and his allies, and the interesting new characters that show up, like the paladin of Lathander.
And heck, even the villains are interesting. The development of actions and consequences is realistic in a good, believable way (ie. how a famine affects life in Sembia). I'm especially interested in learning what happens with Tamlin. This is the kind of book that I wish were longer. :)
|
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 04 Jul 2007 : 07:26:26
You know a lot of times fight scenes can get tedious, but the fight between Rivalen and Cale was great. I loved the description of the avasculate spell . . . Paul does an excellent job of incorporating a spell description into something really horrific
RF, you are certainly correct. Paul really does an excellent job of making the story compelling as a whole. Its not just the "RSE" elements that make you want to keep reading this, but the personal development of Cale and his allies, and the interesting new characters that show up, like the paladin of Lathander. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 03 Jul 2007 : 23:59:37
I just finished this book--what can I say? It's awesome. It has complicated characters--do I need to say more? If RSE novels must be written, I don't think you can go wrong by having Mr. Kemp be the one to write them.
Oh, and I love how things don't get easier for Cale as he gains more power--he just gets beaten up more. |
| Conlon |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 00:35:27
I picked up this book this week and finished it a few days later. I also had meant to hold off on it, knowing how long I would be tortured awaiting its sequel.... It appears as though my willpower is not what it should be, for now I find myself dragging my weary, tortured carcass around, mumbling nonsense about Mephistopheles, Rivalen, and being trapped in the Source.
Anyways, in my opinion, this was a fantastic book. It really sucks having to wait so long for the sequel, but I'm confident that it will be worth it. If you are reading this Mr. Kemp, please be careful crossing the street, chewing your food, and in the handling of any firearms. For God's sake man, finger off trigger, and watch that muzzle control! If, God forbid, anything were to happen to you or George R.R. Martin, I just don't think I could bear it! |
| shuman |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 03:24:51
I know I have seen stats for Riven, Cale, etc. but has anyone attempted a writeup of Magadon? Just curious. Paul? Oh Paul? Some clues perhaps? Thanks for the wonderful fiction! |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 18:01:22
quote:
Originally posted by Buzzcutter
Anyway, kudos to a job well done.
Thank you, Buzzcutter.
It's funny you mention the Riven description. Initially, I did not include much of a description, but my editor asked me to do so, to remind folks of Riven's appearance. Good call, it appears. |
| Buzzcutter |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 15:41:54
I had purposely avoided this book club because i knew it would be along time until its sequel arrived. So i controlled my urges to buy it and instead waited until the xmas break. Now that im finshed with it im both glad that the wait will only be afew months until the next novel, but p*ssed for the same reason.
As with all the other Cale books i have pretty much the same gripes with this book - and that is that the book just ends as the heros find themselves in some kind of hell, and me having to wait a few months to see the resolution! I Salute you Mr. Kemp! You have tease me and left me for wanting yet again!
As for the characters, dito to what everyone else says about the Princes, speciffically, Rivalen. The Archwizards trilogy was my first, and to say it left me more than a little confused is an understatement. Ofcourse my fav character Is Riven, and while his role was great and understandable, i cant say i didnt miss him in the first parts of the book. His trademark sneer and spitting on the floor just brightens up a page in so many ways. Interesting that you described him as such with the hair and all...i remembered his eye being put out, but didnt recall any other clear description, and in my mind i always pictured his resmbling Cable of X-men fame.
Anyway, kudos to a job well done. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 15:15:58
quote:
Originally posted by Proc
I’ve read all of the other Cale books, (plus Resurrection) and one of the things I enjoy most about your writing is the dialogue – especially confrontational back-and-forth between opponents. The alley scene between Mask and Cale, and the great scene between Cale, Rivalen, Riven and Tamlin near the end. Mostly I like it because it feels “real” and not at all over the top or grandiose. My favourite line goes to Riven, with his: “Yap, yap, little dog.” – I’m not sure why this line had me smiling so much, maybe because it seemed to be a perfect taunt and really pissed off Rivalen. (And was it my imagination, or did you manage to work the word “shat” into a Realms novel?)
The only thing I don’t like is that I have to wait to get my hands on Shadowstorm…
Thank you, Proc. I appreciate that a great deal.
And that was not your imagination. I think (for whatever reason) that "shat" can fly, but change a vowel and you're shi...er...shat out of luck. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 15:11:25
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I recently bought Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells and given Shadowbreds ending wanted ask Paul whether he was going to use Mephistopheles involvement with Hellfire (See FC2) in Books 2 and 3?
Dargoth,
It's hard to answer that question without revealing a bit more than I'd like. How about this: I did read a lot of material about Meph, including the entries in the BoVD and FC2, both of which mention the hellfire connection.
Paul |
| Proc |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 03:04:24
First off Paul, I would like to add to the other glowing sentiments above, and say that this novel was fantastic. Erevis Cale has quickly become one of my favourite Realms characters, and I wouldn’t hesitate to put you in a group with Ed and Elaine as one of my favourite (and best) Realms authors.
I’ve read all of the other Cale books, (plus Resurrection) and one of the things I enjoy most about your writing is the dialogue – especially confrontational back-and-forth between opponents. The alley scene between Mask and Cale, and the great scene between Cale, Rivalen, Riven and Tamlin near the end. Mostly I like it because it feels “real” and not at all over the top or grandiose. My favourite line goes to Riven, with his: “Yap, yap, little dog.” – I’m not sure why this line had me smiling so much, maybe because it seemed to be a perfect taunt and really pissed off Rivalen. (And was it my imagination, or did you manage to work the word “shat” into a Realms novel?)
The only thing I don’t like is that I have to wait to get my hands on Shadowstorm…
|
| Dargoth |
Posted - 01 Jan 2007 : 12:36:49
Just Finished reading Shadowbred
My favourite part was Cales "Discussion" with Mask in the Allay
I recently bought Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells and given Shadowbreds ending wanted ask Paul whether he was going to use Mephistopheles involvement with Hellfire (See FC2) in Books 2 and 3?
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