| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 14:03:25
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for the short story entitled "Tears so White", by Ed Greenwood, from the Realms of the Elves anthology.
Please discuss herein. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| turox |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 18:06:57
All I can say about this story is WOW. Ed you really must write more novels about Larloch. I was so glad that I read this story now after the Halaster incident. Cause now I have a new hero. Before I wanted to be Halaster when I grew up but now I think I would rather be like Larloch when I grow up...(Not that I ever will grow up but hey you never know.  )
I always like reading stories about the chosen and the KoMD. Although I think every story about them should include Torm. I try to imagine he is there even when he isn't. So Ed can you now please make every story you write include Larloch, the chosen and Torm?  |
| Sage of Stars |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 17:38:57
A superb story. Yes, a little cryptic, but realistically so, in the way that FAR too many fantasy adventure stories aren't.
Character confusion at the beginning, wanders a little, but lovely character sketches. Larloch, the Srinshee . . . I wish Ed would do a lot more of this.
Mr. Athans, another Ed Realms short story collection, please? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 05:37:49
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To borrow a phrase from Obi-Wan, I think that it may be true, "from a certain point of view." I got the feeling that Larloch may have perhaps nudged some of his servants to move in this direction, but was not directly responsible for it, nor were they aware that their master might have manipulated them into following this course of action.
He just kind of left the clues for them and sat back and watched them do what they could with what he left them. So while he literally didn't have direct responsibility, he wasn't ignorant of the overall plot and may have had a hand in planting the seed . . . if that makes any sense.
It does. Still, maybe I'm too idealistic and naive for my own good, but based on how the Larloch scene was written, I got the impression that he really was contrite. Or...maybe he was just trying to look contrite.
Who knows? Like I said, I don't fully understand the story, but it's a good read nonetheless. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 03:33:29
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
For example, if Larloch was telling the truth when he said "this was not my doing", does that mean that the Srinshee (and by extension, Elminster) actually miscalculated when she said that the Knights where in that little magical pocket in order to thwart one of Larloch's latest schemes?
To borrow a phrase from Obi-Wan, I think that it may be true, "from a certain point of view." I got the feeling that Larloch may have perhaps nudged some of his servants to move in this direction, but was not directly responsible for it, nor were they aware that their master might have manipulated them into following this course of action.
He just kind of left the clues for them and sat back and watched them do what they could with what he left them. So while he literally didn't have direct responsibility, he wasn't ignorant of the overall plot and may have had a hand in planting the seed . . . if that makes any sense. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 29 Oct 2006 : 20:12:20
Okay, after a long (too long?) hiatus, I finally finished this story.
I will begin by admitting that I did not entirely "get" this story. It does start off slowly, and the reader is at first as bewildered about the situation as the Knights of Myth Drannor (in this case, Merith, Jhessail, and Florin) are. If that was intentional, it was certainly effective, but patience is not really one of my strong points, and I could totally sympathize with Jhessail's "tell us what's going on already!" attitude. On top of that, I just plain can't wrap my mind around some of the stuff that went on. For example, if Larloch was telling the truth when he said "this was not my doing", does that mean that the Srinshee (and by extension, Elminster) actually miscalculated when she said that the Knights where in that little magical pocket in order to thwart one of Larloch's latest schemes?
But really, all in all I enjoyed this story--it definitely picks up once the Srinshee (literally) drops in and starts conversing with the Knights. Reading her conversation with the Knights was a pleasure, because she was in fact quite honest and approachable. When Merith asks her what type of elf she really is, she replies that she is beyond such things, and cannot even remember what she originally looked like. In a manner not uncommon to Greenwood's stories, she tells the Knights that she is hardly a saint, and is in fact quite a bitch sometimes, so they shouldn't go putting her on a pedestal. I found it funny when she says, "I always had the pride, but Mystra gave me the power", because as one of the Knights rightly points out, that line could easily come out of the mouth of any number of evil mages.
Lastly, I'll say that this story only reinforced Storm's standing as my favorite of the Seven Sisters. Her reply to the Simbul's quip about elves at the end of the story is quite a good one (and memorable). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 21:29:28
I'm a huge fan of the Knights, myself--they don't need to be "stars" to be great characters. They're fun to read about, they make me laugh, what more do I need? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 17:07:17
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, El Magnifico, the Knights have been nothing BUT supporting "side-characters" in print, thus far, so I doubt there are ANY "huge fans" of them.
How about "huge fans" of the Knights being supporting "side-characters" then? 
Because I know that I am.  |
| Kuje |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 17:01:30
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, El Magnifico, the Knights have been nothing BUT supporting "side-characters" in print, thus far, so I doubt there are ANY "huge fans" of them.
love,
THO
I am, which is why I'm impatiently waiting for August. :) And if the Knight's novel isn't out before I leave, then I hope to get a copy at Gencon! |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 16:12:51
Well, El Magnifico, the Knights have been nothing BUT supporting "side-characters" in print, thus far, so I doubt there are ANY "huge fans" of them.
However, I quite agree with you about not preferring the "saving the world again" tales. Unfortunately, when the editor settles on involving Larloch, the Srinshee, and getting Elminster and the Knights out of Shadowdale for the duration of The Last Mythal trilogy, Ed's sorta stuck with telling a "high-level" tale. Just as, when he's writing the annual Spin A Yarn stories, he's stuck with all the wild, risque, and outlandish story elements the GenCon seminar audience saddles him with (and that's how they get THEIR fun).
Ed has written and spoken many, many times about preferring to write low-level, character-driven rather than uber-plot-driven Realms tales, if HE were "controlling the Realms." However, too many editors and designers know he can write the other sort rather well, so they keep asking him to do it. If he refuses, they just get someone else to write that sort of tale, so he says yes.
Check out some of his Castlemourn short stories, when they start to appear, for tales that peer over the shoulders of relatively low-powered characters, caught in the middle of action they'd prefer to be far away from.
love,
THO |
| El Magnifico Uno |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 23:32:44
All in all, can't say I was terribly impressed by this one.. Admitedly, I am somewhat biased and not a huge fan of the Knights (yes, I do realize this makes me a heretic).. Personally, I much prefer Greenwood's side-characters that he describes in detail with their personal little travails, over the "super-cosmic save-the-world again" stuff.. Overall, the entire story came across as a write-up of a Saturday night PnP game - not my particular cup of tea for reading material.. I did however really like the end part of the story, so props for that! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 23:06:06
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I am SO EXCITED for Swords of Eveningstar.
Ditto. |
| Crust |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 05:51:25
I loved the short story. I was a bit confused about what was happening early on with the Weave strands, but that passed soon enough. I liked sharing the confusion of the Knights.
The beginning scene with Torm and Rathan was just delightful. Classic Greenwood.
Elminster's appearance and snatching of the Knights with no explanation... also classic.
The liches hurling magic... also classic.
I am SO EXCITED for Swords of Eveningstar.
|
| GothicDan |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 22:34:30
All of the liches under larloch's control live, as far as we can tell, in Warlock's Keep. :) |
| Kuje |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 22:29:39
Even going through published NPC's that are named there are at least 20+ liches in the 1e and 2e lore. And that is only a sample of them. |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 21:54:56
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
[quote]Originally posted by GothicDan
And Larloch probably has lich servitors from every one of those places, plus about a hundred or so that no one remembers any more
Had. Now he has some replacing to do. Although, if this is just some of the undead lich army, then he probably has as many hidden away.
What I really had to wonder about, though, is that liches are such powerful forces, and personalities. This many evil creatures, along with all of the demons, devils, dragons, and otherplanar creatures just is, well, overwhelming. At the rate they were coming after our heroes, I just have a hard time imagining where they all laired, unless some of them were in their own pocket dimensions, waiting to be called upon by their master.
Even though, there are quite a few empty tomes with a little less horror in them, at least for a while. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 21:13:40
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
The Realms is huge and tens of thousands of years old, with a number of ancient magical civilizations, and some modern ones, that could have spawned many liches, including Netheril, Raumathar, Narfell, Imaskar, the Arcane Brotherhood, the Red Wizards of Thay, the Shoon Imperiarch, Calimshan, Halruaa, the Netherese Survivor States, etc.
And Larloch probably has lich servitors from every one of those places, plus about a hundred or so that no one remembers any more |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 20:47:42
The Realms is huge and tens of thousands of years old, with a number of ancient magical civilizations, and some modern ones, that could have spawned many liches, including Netheril, Raumathar, Narfell, Imaskar, the Arcane Brotherhood, the Red Wizards of Thay, the Shoon Imperiarch, Calimshan, Halruaa, the Netherese Survivor States, etc. |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 06:53:55
As always, Ed confused the heck out of me. I love what I understand, but it takes a Master Scribe to decipher some of the hidden context, meanings, and creatures that pop in and out of Ed's stories.
One thing that really bothered me, however, was the proliferation of liches. Where the heck do all of these liches come from? I never imagined that one lich even tolerated another, and there were way too many liches coming out of the woodwork. Besides wondering why they all came together (which is kind of explained), I wondered where, before the fight, they all came from. The Realms isn't that big that such powerful undead could hide away for so long. Although, I'm sure El knew enough about their existence.
I really like the Knights, but their appearances have been so sporadic that I really don't know them, therefore some of their interaction and revelations flew over my head. Hopefully the new series will clear some of this up for me. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 26 May 2006 : 22:36:00
I also liked how the short story effectively took El and half of the Knights out of the Dales for months, just when they were needed for the Last Mythal broo-ha-ha. It's a pity this story didn't come out before Farthest Reach, because I thought the one sentence, "Well, Elminster grabbed the Knights and went running off after something, and then the Shrinshee and Simbul followed," explanation smacked too much of the author getting other heroes out of the way, so the book's heroes would have to do the work (which, of course, is what it was). It would have been nicer if we already knew they were gone, and what they were doing. Oh well. At least we know now.
And I'm glad to finally get a look at Larloch. He's such an enigma, someone that Ed knows, but that we don't. Glad to finally get a chance to see him in a story. |
| Swordsage |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:08:41
It was good to see Mr Greenwood get to write about Larloch and the Srinshee and indirectly deal with omissions and errors in the continuity regarding these personages - ala what the Srinshee looks like and what motivates Larloch (seemingly, only magic). The only part of the story I just didn't understand, and someone smarter than I can hopefully fill in this gap for me, was just what Elminster and Dove were doing the whole time they were parts of the white web. What were they doing?? And I'm really finding it hard to constantly accept how Elminster refuses to tell anyone what the $#@* is going on. Merith took him to task over this (it's a long-running thread in most of Mr Greenwood's novels) and yet Elminster still didn't tell them what was what - he just melded with the white web. Frustrating for the Knights, doubly frustrating for this reader. Secrecy is one thing. Insulting, bloody-mindedness on the part of the Old Mage is another. And it's starting to get a bit wearing - and I don't even know the guy. Other than that, reasonably solid effort with some good nuggets of realmslore slipped it where the editors weren't looking. Nice one.
The Swordsage |
| Xysma |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 03:46:03
My only disappointment was the absence of Torm and Rathan in the meat of the tale, but at least I got a glimpse of them. Great story, long live (unlive?) Larloch! |
| Skeptic |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 21:05:02
You forgot to say that we now know for sure that the Srinshee is neiter a gold/moon elf
I could also add that for someone that doesn't have english as a first language, what is called "Ed Jumble" above is always hard to go trough (Yeah, I've read El's in Hell!)
In fact, I didn't like the fight at all, maybe because I didn't understand completly why it has to occured, and why with the KoMD. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 17:25:54
Well the start of this had me chuckling a good few times. I loved the scene at the beginning with Torm and Rathan (Ed's writing of these two never fails to make me laugh).
The Tshaddarna was very eerie and the liches were pretty nasty. There was certainly a feeling of despair and panic going on as the liches kept appearing. The black armored creature was very imposing and fearsome and there was a real sense of power coming from the description of him.
The scene with Larloch back in the dale was fantastic. A very strange atmosphere was written here when they realised who it was, and it was quite touching how he apologised about the liches and how he conducted himself. Very nice also how he wanted to see the Silverfire and how he and the party showed respect and let the moment pass without any conflict.
Nice story, had an excellent start and I really enjoyed the combat scenes, finished off with a beautiful ending  |
| Ramar |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 02:15:26
I thought the whole "ethnic clensing" comment of Shrin's gave light to the fact that the chosen aren't always so good and/or sane. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 03:22:39
So, there are pocket dimentions in the Weave that no one can access unless they can "ride the Weave" since they don't have entrances and exits like traditional demi-planes? That's an interesting fact to know. Even more interesting is that Manshoon knows how to do this. More and more I think that my whole "the real Manshoon has never died, his clones just they that they are him" theory is close to the mark. I have a whole new level of respect for him now, and I have a hard time thinking the "real" Manshoon would get caught up in some of the clone issues that the "secondary" one did. But that's just conjecture.
Merith never did come clean about having met Larloch before did he? I wonder if somehow that side story might come up in the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy. That and he seems to have some interesting knowlage of Baelnorns . . .
I wonder if Larloch really did have nothing to do with the whole Mythal syphon plot, or it if was just fairly easy to peg it to his subordinates when he decides to play the role of the gentleman honorable lich. Hm, wouldn't it be ironic if somehow all of this mythal tapping screwed with Sarya's plans? Or maybe some of the Baelnorns that should have been defending the mythals were unfortunately snagged by Larloch (or whoever's) plot.
I think this also answers if Larloch would ever be tempted by the Shadow Weave. Dispite his nature, he seems to have a genuine love of Mystra and respect for at least one symbol of her power (the Silver Fire).
As a story, I liked the begining and the end, and it was fun to see the Knights in action again. A bit of an "Ed Jumble" in the middle, where it seems like it got chaotic and hectic and confusing just for the sake of reminding us that we didn't know what was going on, which we already knew, and the liches falling by the wayside by the score, even without their spells, seemed to be overkill, at least until the Shrinshee provided the convinient explanation that their undead animating force was being damaged by the pocket dimension.
Definately a fun read, and reavealing of more Realmslore than I innitially expected. |
| Blueblade |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 18:52:31
Nice story. Two mondo NPCs make an appearance, everybody bounces off each other in that inimitable "Ed style." A fun read. |
| darkcrow |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 05:45:40
I younger Vangerdahast, This I have to see. Thanks alot oh hooded one. This book sounds exciting. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 03:59:29
No, Ed's new trilogy goes back in time to the formation of the Knights of Myth Drannor (when they were first chartered, as the Swords of Eveningstar). You'll get to see a younger Azoun IV, Filfaeril, and Tanalasta. And, let's see . . . Khelben, Vangerdahast, Dove, and many more.
Oh, I can't wait. The first novel is done and in; Ed's working on the second right now. Among all of his other projects (six at once, I believe).
love,
THO |
| darkcrow |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 03:33:52
I thought the story was pretty good. Is this a taster for Ed's new trilogy coming out. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 17:32:26
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Good read, I wonder where things be going from here. :)
Edit: Edited out my silly question cause a few pages later the quest was answered. :)
If you were going to ask about the lady elf spellcaster, I almost came in to ask the same question, before it was answered a bit later. 
This tale makes me wonder one thing (highlight it, since it's a bit spoileriffic):
Are we going to see more of the Srinshee, now that she's active again? |
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