| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 13:59:33
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for the short story entitled "Traitors", by Richard Lee Byers, from the Realms of the Elves anthology.
Please discuss herein. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 04 Aug 2006 : 01:54:59
Very glad you enjoyed it, Rin. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 04 Aug 2006 : 01:52:38
This was a great story. It grabbed me instantly, and while I didn't understand everything (such as, where is this story taking place, and why are there so many powerful, sophisticated humans living there so very far in the past?), I didn't really need to. The gold dragon seemed like a war-monger, and I think he kind of deserved his fate. I loved how Rhespen joined the rebellion for a myriad of reasons that he himself wasn't really sure of--that made him seem all the more real to me. People usually change their opinions over time, and for more than one reason, not in the snap of a finger. Also, the title "Traitors" is played out in the story in so many different ways.
RLB strikes again. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 18:31:25
quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Orcs live in caves, dwarves live in beautiful stone halls.
 I can't help but picture the scene in Fellowship of the Ring with Gimli, as they enter Moria.... "...and they call it a mine! a mine!"  |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 16:32:16
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Glad you liked it, Hammer.
I actually don't think dwarves would have worked as well in this story, because the rivalry between the vassal peoples involves competition for land. The humans want to cut down parts of the elven forests for farmland and are having some success in persuading the dragon king to allow it. It's hard to imagine that cave-dwelling dwarves would have the same objective. Why would they care?
I do like the standard Tolkien-esque dwarves and would like to showcase them in a FR story, but so far, the plots I've come up with just don't lend themselves to it. There's no logical justification for dwarves to be extensively involved. But hey, maybe eventually.
Orcs live in caves, dwarves live in beautiful stone halls.
The races made sense in this story. I'm just pushing for some really good dwarf stories by some really good authors. You fit the bill, so I have to give it a push. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 14:50:23
Glad you liked it, Hammer.
I actually don't think dwarves would have worked as well in this story, because the rivalry between the vassal peoples involves competition for land. The humans want to cut down parts of the elven forests for farmland and are having some success in persuading the dragon king to allow it. It's hard to imagine that cave-dwelling dwarves would have the same objective. Why would they care?
I do like the standard Tolkien-esque dwarves and would like to showcase them in a FR story, but so far, the plots I've come up with just don't lend themselves to it. There's no logical justification for dwarves to be extensively involved. But hey, maybe eventually. |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 06:41:21
quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
For what it's worth (nothing, I know) I would have liked to have seen the metallics ruling and dominating the "Proud Peoples", dwarves and elves (and why don't dwarves ever get a mention ... and yes, I do know the book's called "Realms of the Elves, but dwarves may possibly have worked better as the elves' antagonists under the metallic dragons), with the chromatics lording over (and eating and just generally treating like animals) primitive humans.
The Swordsage
Yeah, why don't dwarves get a nod at least, RLB?
Kidding aside (or am I kidding?), I thought this was an interesting story, with some good intrigue. I expected the betrayal, but thought for a minute there that you were going a different way with the story. I especially like it when an author takes the whole alignment structure and turns it around to include a point-of-view. He may be a gold, but all others are beneath him. Kind of what you would expect from a dragon. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 04:08:55
I was annoyed by the advanced humans as well, until I started thinking it over a bit more.
We know the humans have been around all along (they're one of the Creator Races). We also only see one kingdom (and it's never geographically placed), so we have no idea whether the civilized humans are widespread or not. And even if they are, the Raged dragons are going to cause a tremendous amount of damage before they die, it's reasonable to assume that enough humans die that the remnants don't have enough numbers to maintain civilisation.
Still, if I ever had to incorporate this into a game of mine (and since I've got an ambitious chronomancer PC, that's not out of the question), I'd probably make all the humans elves to save headaches. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 00:53:39
I imagine an orc or a goblin that is raised among humans or elves, and is given a good education, is likely going to seem a bit more civilized than their bretheren that live in the wilds. I would imagine this is pretty much the same case. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 19:43:40
Swordsage: Guess my explanation would be that humans have yet to develop an advanced independent civilization of their own, but those who are subjects of the dragon-ruled civilization basically have civilized ways imposed on them by their masters. Apparently they don't carry those civilized ways forward with them when the dragon kingdoms fall.
|
| khorne |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 19:25:55
Hmmm.....I really hate Winterflower after reading this. And frankly, I can`t understand why Rhespen chose her side. She deceived him into commiting treason, after all. |
| Swordsage |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:18:23
I enjoyed this story quite a bit but there was one element that I found quite jarring and that was the level of sophistication shown by the humans in this story. The date given is -25000 DR. Netheril didn't rise for another 17000 years. In -14000 humans in the Tethyr/Amn region are still nomadic, tribal barbarian clans. I really didn't feel comfortable with how humans were portrayed as just as civilized, sophisticated and advanced as elves. For what it's worth (nothing, I know) I would have liked to have seen the metallics ruling and dominating the "Proud Peoples", dwarves and elves (and why don't dwarves ever get a mention ... and yes, I do know the book's called "Realms of the Elves, but dwarves may possibly have worked better as the elves' antagonists under the metallic dragons), with the chromatics lording over (and eating and just generally treating like animals) primitive humans. That aside, I think the tale worked well and made the elven motivation for creating the Rage perfectly understandable. I just can't come to terms with how humans in particular were portrayed.
The Swordsage
|
| Xysma |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 03:38:57
Well, I'm coming to this thread late, so my queries have been answered. Let me just say that I loved this story and I was impressed at how much character development takes place in such a short amount of time. Excellent story, I am eagerly awaiting the conclusion of the trilogy. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 07:11:59
Glad to hear you liked it, Ramar. |
| Ramar |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 02:28:29
I really dug the story. I really liked how the spell knowledge is what kept the servitor mages from being able to effectively battle the dragon masters. Great attention to detail. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 17:49:58
Even though I understood the original reason for it, I'm kind of glad to get a perspective piece showing how the Rage helped the inhabitants of Faerun overthrow the Dragons. After reading the current era and seeing the damage that the dragons are doing, its kind of easy once in a while to go, "why would anyone WANT this to happen?" This story did a pretty good job of showing exactly how devestating this would be when dragons are on the top rung and in charge of everything. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 14:09:39
I'm glad you liked it, Rad. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 12:00:54
Very good story Well written to the point where I felt like I was engrossed in a full length novel. The detail and pace were making me wonder how Richard could possibly get this story finished within the shorter page count.
Nice scene when Rhespen was fighting and saw Winterflower pick up the staff and then just teleported away, leaving him to it.
I liked when Orchtrien explained the situation to Rhespen, who then said he would repay his bad decision and return to his kings loyalty, only then for Orchtrien to say that traitors don't get a second chance and locked him away.
The fight scene with Rhespen and Orchtrien was well done too, I felt quite emersed in this. Great when he awoke and felt there was something wrong, to see a claw pertruding from his chest.
The greatest moment for me in the whole story was right at the end when the Rage got a hold of Orchtrien. I was taken by surprise (although very amused) when he stamped the woman to paste after she offered her services
The King-Killer inclusion was a very nice touch. I was hoping the Rage would feature in this story so was very happy with the outcome
It's very weird reading this story with it being so far in the past (around -28,000DR)... that's a LONG time ago. Sad to think that it's all gone now 
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 02:39:05
Glad you liked it. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 01:53:15
hahaha i bought this book sleepily thinking it was the third of the last mythal series.... i was so confused when the two were talking in the beginning about how dragons were ruling all over the world.. i guess it really does pay to know what your reading about!
oh its good btw
!!
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 06:29:11
Thanks very much. No biggie, just curious. I guess I'll have to see what the tale is about when I get my hands on the anthology - hopefully soon.
-- George Krashos
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 06:25:11
Sorry, George, but no, not really. The story's not structured that way. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 04:11:20
This hasn't hit my shores yet but I was wondering whether we get any info on the High Magic ritual that kicked off the Rage: Caster(s)? Location? etc. Just curious is all.
-- George Krashos
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 03:28:06
Sorry, can't help you by working info into The Ruin. It's been finished for almost a year now, and I wrapped it up before I even knew I'd be doing a story for Realms of the Elves.
But who knows, maybe there'll be a direct sequel to Traitors someday. |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 22 Feb 2006 : 22:07:40
It didn't seriously hurt the story, but I was hoping to get a bit more insight. But, hey, there's always next time, eh? Maybe a mention're two in The Ruin? |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Feb 2006 : 14:00:33
I'd say they really loved one another, although she didn't love him enough to forsake her cause for him.
True, you don't find out the fate of the characters you mentioned. Sorry if that bothered you, but sometimes there are considerations of length, structure, focus, point of view, etc., that prevent the writer from laying out the fate of every minor character.
I've always thought that dragons having sex with other species was, if not creepy, maybe a little peculiar. But it's an established part of D&D and FR lore, so I went with it, here and in my trilogy, too. |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 22 Feb 2006 : 03:33:44
I also gotta ask...did Rhespen and Winterflower really love one another in the end? Call me a romantic...
My one criticism was the end was a bit rushed, we didn't find out what happened to our other villains, after all....(I assume the dragon prince died same as dad, but as for the human mage...well, mages live a long time)
And is it just me or is hitting on a massive gold serpent just creepy? |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 22 Feb 2006 : 02:33:50
Glad you enjoyed it, Ethriel.
I assume that Winterflower continued to work against the dragons. Beyond that, I don't know, Maybe the details will come to me someday, and then I'll have the material for another story.
Was overthrowing the overlords worth it? I guess that's a judgment call you can make for yourself. Consider the world that you get a glimpse of in "Traitors," compare it to what came after (in other words, the Realms as they currently are), and see which one you prefer. |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 23:22:25
Wow, Richard, I loved it! the whole story, the characters...I actually saw the gold king as a cruel tyrant at the end. My questions: What happened to Winterflower after the Rage began and was overthrowing the overlords worth it? |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 19 Feb 2006 : 14:28:26
Thanks for the kind words, Knight. I'm glad you enjoyed the story.
So far I have enjoyed writing about FR spies and can certainly imagine myself doing more with such characters. But of course it all depends on the requirements of the plot. If, for example, WotC asks me for a book about barbarians running around in the wilderness, spies may not fit in very well.
To me, the thing that was interesting about Colossus's resurrection is that there was virtually no attempt made to justify or explain it. Comic book characters have always had a habit of coming back from the dead, but the writers used to try to make it somewhat plausible. Now, I guess, they feel that this convention of the superhero genre is so firmly established and universally accepted by the readers that they don't even have to bother.
I think this hurts the quality of the stories, but of course that's just my opinion. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 19 Feb 2006 : 05:51:29
I just finished this one. I was very happy with it, and the Black Archer comment did jump out at me, but there wasn't enough really tied to the comment to cause any problem with the story itself. Just a bit of a speed bump. I like it when the greater good is done, and things actually do work out, but the hero ends up sacrificing himself. Especially when he knows he will. Why? Because it doesn't then always feel like the heroes are "badly wounded, but then got better." Not that I want my heroes dropping dead every other chapter, but once in a while, yeah sure. (BTW, the Marvel reference has prompted the part of my mind that ponders such things to point this out . . . there is actually a mechanic built into the Realms that allows characters to come back from the dead, and yet fewer Realmsian characters come back from the dead than say your average X-Man . . . even when said death was originally very moving . . . yeah, I'm not happy that Colossus is back . . . but I digress)
One of the things I like about RLB is that he isn't easily pigeon holed. Some writers seem to think that every character needs to have a dark side, and that no one is truly noble, and that somewhere in the story you have to see their dark side, and if they profess to be good, their dark side has to be even more heinous. Other writers write good characters that never seem to have any moral delimas, and just march toward their glorious heroic destinies. RLB doesn't seem too tied down to one type of protagonist. He can write the good guys that are pretty much good, he can write the roguish with a dark streak but a good heart, he can write the nasty but interesting (honestly, Pharaun was at his best in your book), and the sympathetic but evil characters. Of course, in this particular story, you had characters that seemed to be a little more in the gray, although I do think that Winterflower was essentially a good person in a bad place, and that Rhespen was basically a good soldier that had convinced himself that he had fewer options than he really did.
I have noticed that Winterflower espouses a sort of "code of the spy" in the story, that reminded me of your Turmish spy from Queen of the Depths. Given the chance, Richard, would you write about more Realmsian spies, or have these two played out that vein for you? |
|
|
