| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 02:48:57
Seems like this issue is getting a lot of attention lately, both at WotC and the EN World boards. From "Ask Wizards" yesterday -
quote:
Q: I remember two additional settings were purchased by WotC in addition to Eberron during the Campaign Setting Search contest. When will we see the other winners?
--Matt
We're still hanging on to those campaign settings and looking for the right time and venue to do something with them. Rest assured, we haven't forgotten about them!
--Chris Perkins, R&D
Did we ever actually learn anything about the other two settings... or just that they were close seconds to Eberron?
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| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 17:49:03
quote:
Originally posted by Eremite
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage (snip) Actually, George's current thoughts on Raumathar potentially gaining access to one of the lost Imaskarcana (possibly increasing Raumathari knowledge of Imaskari artifice and artifical creation) certainly allows for the opportunity to create a House Cannith-styled cabal among the Raumathari responsible for the creation of warforged-styled creations in the ancient Realms. (snip)
My next FR campaign is going to be set in the Unapproachable East and will draw on a lot of the history of the ancient Imaskari, Raumathari and Narfell empires.
UE notes that there are sites from ancient Raumathar containing their war machines and I was thinking that one of these sites could be the source of a small band of warforged created to battle the fiends of Narfell. Of course, my main reason for considering such a site is so that in the event that a player wants a warforged PC I've got a logical entry point into the campaign for such a character.
That was pretty much my idea, though I spun it in a slightly different way. |
| Eremite |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 13:59:10
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage (snip) Actually, George's current thoughts on Raumathar potentially gaining access to one of the lost Imaskarcana (possibly increasing Raumathari knowledge of Imaskari artifice and artifical creation) certainly allows for the opportunity to create a House Cannith-styled cabal among the Raumathari responsible for the creation of warforged-styled creations in the ancient Realms. (snip)
My next FR campaign is going to be set in the Unapproachable East and will draw on a lot of the history of the ancient Imaskari, Raumathari and Narfell empires.
UE notes that there are sites from ancient Raumathar containing their war machines and I was thinking that one of these sites could be the source of a small band of warforged created to battle the fiends of Narfell. Of course, my main reason for considering such a site is so that in the event that a player wants a warforged PC I've got a logical entry point into the campaign for such a character.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 03:33:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I do have an idea for having just a handful of warforged in the Realms... They'd not be true, Eber-whatsit warforged, but a similar idea. Sage was going to get back to me on that idea... about a year ago. 
Hmmm... it's likely something I put in my "To Do" pile then. Could you send me a PM with an update? The Raumathari/Imaskari connection I made earlier has got me thinking about an idea for this myself...
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| Arivia |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 03:22:25
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I do have an idea for having just a handful of warforged in the Realms... They'd not be true, Eber-whatsit warforged, but a similar idea. Sage was going to get back to me on that idea... about a year ago.
I think he's enjoying the burying. Let's keep thinking of more things... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 03:07:41
I do have an idea for having just a handful of warforged in the Realms... They'd not be true, Eber-whatsit warforged, but a similar idea. Sage was going to get back to me on that idea... about a year ago. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 02:41:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Warforged are pushing it a bit more. They're not too far from the normal fantasy concepts -- they're like the next step in evolution for golems, almost.
Actually, George's current thoughts on Raumathar potentially gaining access to one of the lost Imaskarcana (possibly increasing Raumathari knowledge of Imaskari artifice and artifical creation) certainly allows for the opportunity to create a House Cannith-styled cabal among the Raumathari responsible for the creation of warforged-styled creations in the ancient Realms.
quote:
My fascination for them stems from a fascination for cyborgs, droids, and robots in sci-fi settings. They're like the fantasy equivalent of droids.
That's pretty much the same for me as well, though I admit the warforged also present an extremely challenging roleplaying opportunity... which also forms part of my interest in them.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 02:20:34
I have to agree with Wooly . . . if someone wanted to run a shifter or a changeling in one of my Realms campaigns, I would definately work with them on including the character. They just seemed like a logical fantasy extention, like Wooly said.
And c'mon . . . who doesn't like sentient "robots?" No, I wouldn't try to fit them into the Realms, but they are kinda cool as a concept.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 19:38:34
quote:
Originally posted by Vainelus
I have to admit after buying the monster manual 3, I was hugely turned off to Eberron. Considering the book might as well have been titled monsters of Eberron. I think Wotc has gotten better about not loading every new product they make with Eberron specific stuff. However I am surprised about the compliments that so many people are paying shifters, warforged and changelings. I found those to be one of my greatest dislikes about Eberron. I was curious other than novelty value what people find so interesting about them?
To me, shifters and changelings are natural extrapolations of werecritters and dopplegangers. I can readily see a child or grandchild of a werecritter being a shifter. And I can readily see a doppleganger mating with a human, producing a half-doppleganger, and then that half-doppleganger having changeling children. It's just fantasy genetics at work.
I'd not use them in large numbers, but I can see them existing outside of a Eber-whatsit setting with little adaptation or explanation needed.
Warforged are pushing it a bit more. They're not too far from the normal fantasy concepts -- they're like the next step in evolution for golems, almost. My fascination for them stems from a fascination for cyborgs, droids, and robots in sci-fi settings. They're like the fantasy equivalent of droids. |
| Vainelus |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 19:04:05
I have to admit after buying the monster manual 3, I was hugely turned off to Eberron. Considering the book might as well have been titled monsters of Eberron. I think Wotc has gotten better about not loading every new product they make with Eberron specific stuff. However I am surprised about the compliments that so many people are paying shifters, warforged and changelings. I found those to be one of my greatest dislikes about Eberron. I was curious other than novelty value what people find so interesting about them?
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| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 12:37:09
Considering that I own a lot of 2nd ed Ravenloft and DragonLance material, in addition to FR stuff, I never bothered with Eberron, won't go there now.
I don't know how well Planescape did regarding sales figures, but if Wizards were to re-release that setting, now that's something I would buy. |
| Mordakay of Thay |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 12:25:53
I have to say that Arcanum was a great game in manny aspects.In Arcanum,the setting was placed in the 19th century and it combined magic with technology.U had guns,u had swords and armor,u had the steamengine + u the fantasy races:dwarfs elves gnomes halflings,even ogres and orcs(I loved that game),but magic and technology didn't get allong in Arcanum.A powerfull magic user couldn't use a train for transportation,because his magical power would damage the steamengine powering the train(strange idea,but not bad,kinda like arcane spell failiure from metal in D&D,only the other way around :P).In Eberron magic is technology.Magic is used in every aspect:to power the cranes in the docs,to power the flying ships,to power the train,wich is completely diferent from Arcanum.I'm not saying i don't like Eberron,I just like Forgotten Realms more :D. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 11:12:52
I looked through Dawnforge at the local game store. The thing that jumped out at me is that they seemed to go for putting the mythological element back into things. Many mythological monsters were in the setting as singular creatures, for example (i.e. Medusa as a singular creature, there was a specific Hydra, etc).
It looked somewhat interesting, but I had a lot of other things I wanted to peruse at the time, so I haven't gone into any more detail in my analysis of the setting. |
| Archwizard |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 06:06:17
I came upon a response by Keith Baker on the WotC boards regarding (in part) Rich Burlew's proposal. I believe Rich Burlew was the second place winner and does work for other D&D products now. No idea who the other runner up is.
Anyway, someone on the forum said they thought the Aerenal elves of Eberron were transplanted from Rich's proposal. Keith Baker response was:
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Not at all. I still don't even know exactly what's in Rich's proposal... but it was in no way directly lifted into Eberron. Rich created a culture of necromantic elves, but this didn't include Aeren, the deathless, the Undying Court, the line of Vol, the Qabalrin, or any of the other things that currently define the elves of Eberron. The issue is that during the initial brainstorming sessions, we were talking about new ideas, and someone - either James, Bill, or Chris - thought of Rich's proposal and said "What if the elves had a necromancy thing going on?" I took that and ran with it. So the original suggestion was inspired by Rich's work... but none of the specific details.
I've talked to Rich about it since then, and it sounds like the two are quite different. I'm still keen to see Rich's full proposal at some point, since I think he's absolutely brilliant and I'm sure his setting is equally brilliant. But Aerenal wasn't somehow cut and spliced directly out of it. [snip]
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So it seems WotC is still sitting on the two other finalists. I know that at least two of the semi-finalists settings have been published by third party companies.
There is Dawnforge published by Fantasy Flight Games. I'm not sure what it is all about, but I get a Hyborian age vibe from the description. And there is Morningstar from Goodman Games, set in a golden age of splendor with impending doom prophecized for the near future. It would be interesting to see what the two finalists are like, even as one shot campaign books, who knows, they might take off in popularity, sometimes things happen unexpectedly and what WotC selected as the winner may not be the "best" setting. Not that I'm discounting Eberron, I do find the setting interesting.
I remember entering the contest, though I had no ideas at the time and turned in a very rough and bland submission. Some ideas started to click about a year ago and for my own entertainment I've been fitting pieces into a large puzzle ever since. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 02:03:57
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Dark Matter was an awesome campaign setting for Alternity, but it wasn't going to last too much longer than the whole "X-Files" phenom did.
"Alternity's" Star*Drive experienced much of the same (in fact I recall Steven saying something like this after he'd worked on elements of The Externals supplement) -- it was a brief sci-fi flirtation for TSR/WotC.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Apr 2006 : 01:51:44
I flipped through that, and it did look like it had a plan to it, rather than just, "hey, here is everything that changed from 3.0 to 3.5, and ways to tie a bunch of new rulebooks to different parts of Faerun." No problem with that, per se, but almost like what I notice in "Races of the Dragon" recently, it just felt like some good ideas that could have used a stricter editor coming back through and saying . . . "good idea, now polish it."
BTW, I wish someone in my group would by Magic of Eberron, just because I want to use those spells that do damage by opening your mind up to a thousand years worth of memories. I would love to see some Realmsian elves use that one. Hm . . . especially if the PCs ran into some Eldreth Veluuthra wizard . . .
I have a though here, and my fellow scribes feel free to correct me if I am way off base. It seems that in the late nineties through the early 2000s we had a lot of 1800 to pre WW I era adventure movies that were very stylized and anachronistic, with hip clothing styles and more modern sensibilities, but with the "old world" ambiance. Movies like "Brotherhood of the Wolf," "Leauge of Extrodinary Gentlemen" and "Van Helsing." (Keep in mind, I'm not saying all of those are similar in quality) Movies that fit this late 1800s hip adventure theme seem to be trailing off, and Eberron always felt to me like it was channeling a lot of that vibe.
WOTC seems like they placed a lot of weight on Eberron's "look" as well as its feel. That piece of the puzzle may end up being problematic.
Dark Matter was an awesome campaign setting for Alternity, but it wasn't going to last too much longer than the whole "X-Files" phenom did.
But I'm not sounding any death knells, as the setting could still do quite well. Most likely it will find a devoted core, and lose a lot of people that just jumped on the band wagon to see what the latest and greatest setting had to offer, just as we Realmsians ended up getting a lot of moderately interested people visiting Toril when FR was the "default" setting.
For the record, Eberron's new PC races have been a lot better designed and realized than any of the new races that they have tried to introduce in some of the other optional rulebooks.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 16:19:11
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Though... I think, and I know Big Al agrees, I would've preferred the format and style of the Player's Guide to Faerun to have been the same as what was generated for the PGtE...
Well met
Indeed, the PGtE is far superior in many ways and much more of a "Player's Guide" than the PGtF. How about a PGtF 3.5 v2.0?
It's got my vote .
Actually, I've thought about doing PGtE-styled articles for the Realms in the Compendium... but with all the other projects I've currently got on my desk... that'll have to wait.
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| Alaundo |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 15:18:13
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Though... I think, and I know Big Al agrees, I would've preferred the format and style of the Player's Guide to Faerun to have been the same as what was generated for the PGtE...
Well met
Indeed, the PGtE is far superior in many ways and much more of a "Player's Guide" than the PGtF. How about a PGtF 3.5 v2.0? |
| Arivia |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 13:20:13
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Though... I think, and I know Big Al agrees, I would've preferred the format and style of the Player's Guide to Faerun to have been the same as what was generated for the PGtE...
Oh, hells yes. The PGtE is a great product, period...I'm just not too entranced with what's depicted within. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 13:10:13
Though... I think, and I know Big Al agrees, I would've preferred the format and style of the Player's Guide to Faerun to have been the same as what was generated for the PGtE...
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| Alaundo |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 08:01:02
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Which seems to run counter to the notion some EB fans hold that Eberron will become the core setting for the next several editions of D&D... replacing (or perhaps rather existing alongside) the generic GH material that has been used in 3/3.5e D&D.
I saw an interesting quote the other day on the Future Releases board over at WotC, something like "The FRCS has out-sold the ECS 3 to 1 in the last year or so", which does raise some interesting questions. In all honesty, my own interest in Eberron is waning --- even though I like some of it, I'm finding that as time goes on, I'm growing more discontent with the style; it just doesn't appeal to me. I sincerely doubt I'll be running an Eberron campaign again, but I might pick up some of the supplements to adapt to my Realms and other games.
Well met
Well that's interesting to hear, Arivia 
Also, it's not the first i've heard talk of fans interest in Eberron beginning to wane. Mayhaps for some, it was a novelty and curiosity that had to be explored. It is in our nature to do so, after all
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| Sanishiver |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 07:30:15
I got the impression that WotC took portions from the two runner-up settings and added those bits to the final Eberron product.
I vaguely recall an interview to that effect with a runner up (Rich Burlew --he of Order of the Stick fame-- ?) on the WotC website just after Eberron was released....memory too hazy to recall.
Need a cobweb cleaner, stat!
J. Grenemyer
J. Grenemyer |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 06:32:53
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
In all honesty, my own interest in Eberron is waning --- even though I like some of it, I'm finding that as time goes on, I'm growing more discontent with the style; it just doesn't appeal to me.
That's my case, too. The setting just doesn't have all that much to grab me... There are individual things I like, like the airships, warforged, shifters, and changelings; but the rest of the setting just doesn't grab me. I've only bought two of the books: the ECS and Races of Eber-whatsit, and the latter was for more warforged goodness.  |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 05:14:31
hmm i mean eberron just seems so similar to so many recent anime fantays worlds. it is very japanese influenced etc. It even reminds me of that game Arcanum. anywho i would enjoy to see other fantasy worlds adn its a shame i was (and am) so young when thecontest began. I hope WoTC does it again sometime.... when im ready! |
| Arivia |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 04:46:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Which seems to run counter to the notion some EB fans hold that Eberron will become the core setting for the next several editions of D&D... replacing (or perhaps rather existing alongside) the generic GH material that has been used in 3/3.5e D&D.
I saw an interesting quote the other day on the Future Releases board over at WotC, something like "The FRCS has out-sold the ECS 3 to 1 in the last year or so", which does raise some interesting questions. In all honesty, my own interest in Eberron is waning --- even though I like some of it, I'm finding that as time goes on, I'm growing more discontent with the style; it just doesn't appeal to me. I sincerely doubt I'll be running an Eberron campaign again, but I might pick up some of the supplements to adapt to my Realms and other games. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 04:25:52
I have to admit, now that the initial marketing campaign has slowed up, Eberron doesn't seem as bad as it once did to me. It helped that I spent some time reading through the Eberron adventures that Dungeon as published. I don't know that I would buy the stuff myself, and I don't know that I could DM for it (as much as I liked Greyhawk, I had this problem there too . . . I have to have the right mindset to DM a setting), I could easily see myself playing in someone else's campaign set there.
I just hated the whole, "today's kids don't like traditional fantasy, so you old fogies and your Forgotten Realms will drive them away, but our Harry Potterized setting will have them flock to us in droves" attitude that came about when the setting started up. Particularly in a pre-Erik Mona editorial in Dragon. I always had a hard time with that mindset, given that around the time we were being told that today's kids didn't like traditional fantasy, I was seeing tons of them in the movie theater with me watching Return of the King, and watching them buy up all the "cool looking" LOTR action figures at Wal Mart.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 04:13:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maybe in a few years, when interest in the Eber-whatsit setting begins to wane, we'll see the next setting come out.
Which seems to run counter to the notion some EB fans hold that Eberron will become the core setting for the next several editions of D&D... replacing (or perhaps rather existing alongside) the generic GH material that has been used in 3/3.5e D&D.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 03:45:28
I don't recall hearing anything else...
I think they'll prolly sit on those other two settings for a couple more years, at least. Putting out too many settings didn't work too well in the past, and I don't think they're interested in pulling too much attention from their big money makers.
Maybe in a few years, when interest in the Eber-whatsit setting begins to wane, we'll see the next setting come out. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 20 Apr 2006 : 03:44:22
I don't know that I ever heard anything more about them. I wonder of they are planning on doing a Campaign Option type book with them, like a one shot book for each setting.
Eep . . . I just thought of this . . . I hope they don't try to make them other continents in Faerun . . . wait . . . the shoehorn setting now is Eberron ::breathes more easily:: |
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