| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 03:16:11
I notice there hasn't been a lot of discussion here about this upcoming accessory:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/885227200
In addition, this month's previews on the D&D website also contain some details about its content.
Thoughts?
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| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 18 Apr 2006 : 22:25:32
A searchable sample is available on Amazon. |
| Dhomal |
Posted - 18 Apr 2006 : 03:11:37
Hello-
I remember one game I was playing in many tears ago. My character died - and in the time it took the other PCs to finish what they were up to - and then haul my dead carcass out of wherever we were - and then get me to somewhere to raise me - a considerable amount of time went by.
The DM had a 'mini-adventure' where I awoke in the realm of my god - and I interacted with several 'angels' or other servants of my god. I sem to remember having a discussion with one of them whether or not I had completed everything I had set out to or not. I recall feeling that I had not. It did not last overly long - and I remember starting to feel tired in the realm - and so they showed me back to my room. When I awoke - I was alive again - with friendly faces about me.
It was certainly a unique way of dealing with the missing time for my character - and I suppose that if I had thought that I had completed I had set out to do - possibly I would not have felt tired and needed to rest - thereby allowing the raise dead to work properly.
Its something I've considered doing in my own games in one way or another.
Dhomal |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 18 Apr 2006 : 00:21:24
I decided to start using a modified version of Raise Dead and Ressurection based off of how they suggested it work in Heroes of Horror. Its not so horror based, but it does give it an element of chance to making sure that a character can actually be raised.
With the chance for failure, I also am thinking of introducing a chance for the person being raised to make a deal to come back, if they want to, which could introduce some issues that might relate to horror . . . hm.
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| Snotlord |
Posted - 16 Apr 2006 : 22:08:49
Ok, so I gave in and bought the book 
...and liked it, even if horror does not fit my vision of FR.
Good points:
- the discussion about running a horror game is rather good. Lots of good ideas. The writers sure know their horror.
- some of the crunch is solid. The new feats bored me to tears, but the new core classes was interesting.
- more monsters are always nice.
- the maps was very nice. It will save me for hours of work, which alone makes up for the cost.
- the mooseboy gave me a good laugh. There is a wicked Malar plot here somewhere.
Bad points:
- More feats...
- Taint Redux Part II. Please let it go, let it go!
- The prestige classes seemed alright, but did not seem to bring anything new to the table. Boring stuff really.
In short, I'm rather pleased with this one. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 15 Dec 2005 : 22:13:30
I just picked this up yesterday, and it's quite well done(well, at least the entirety of the 65 pages I've read through so far-I've flipped through the rest of it a bit). Chapters 1-3 are a wealth of ideas and tips on running a horrific encounter/adventure/campaign.
A few highlights so far:
-Six pages on dreams, nightmares, dreamscapes, and nightmare realms. The only complaint I have here is that a bit of integration with/explanation about how the content presented here works with the Region of Dreams from the 3e MotP(and the slight expansion in the ELH) would have gone a long way. Dal Quor is discussed a bit, but not that intensely.
-There's some really fun stuff that goes on with the iconic characters-the introductory text to chapter 1 has to be read to be believed, and you'll find yourself just outright grinning at it.
-There are 11 maps for horror locations in the book. Contrary to what the introduction says, though(at least as far as I've noticed), only 2 of them have loosely-detailed keys, while the other 9 just have rooms noted.
-The entry for the one god in the book is very well done; there's the normal deity entry, and then an NPC stat block for an avatar. With the Herald and Allies part of a deity entry and the avatar stats, there's some very good information on how the deity might appear to worshipers or to do things. I kind of wish they'd noted a divine rank and what salient divine abilities the avatar has(albeit, a quick glance at it makes me think it might not have any), but that's just the rules precision part of me screaming.
-There is Realmsian support in appropriate areas, including a fairly interesting alternate take on the Time of Troubles to create a horrific Realms. Oddly enough, the Realmsian campaign ideas are placed under Faerun as a heading, even though one of them talks about Maztica! 
-There's a lot of integration with the BoVD-it's not necessary to have it for this book, but you'll definitely get more use out of it if you have the BoVD. This is the first book I've noted outside of the BoVD that uses the sadism rules, for example. It's also on a comparable level with the BoVD in mature and detailed discussion of evil/vile/horrific acts-at least, the non-sexual ones.
-They've really covered all the bases in the first three chapters-things that might upset players, for example, are specifically called out.
-There are some fun references in there-total party kills are referred to by that name and the associated abbreviation at least once, and one of the example setting ideas is Ravenloft(not referred to by name, though).
EDIT: I can't wait to run a horrific game, but I just started 2 new ones this past week.. *throws it on the pile of game ideas* |
| Sanishiver |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 01:21:50
I picked it up and plan to use it tonight for inspiration. I should like to scare the bejeezus out of my players, if at all possible.
Halloween, and all that.
Looking forward to your review, Crennan.
J. Grenemyer |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 15:10:07
So, I don't know how many of you picked this book up, but it is full of interesting concepts to be sure. Not as much crunch as I would have thought, which definitely a good think. I have a hard enough time remembering all the PrCs, anyway. 
My detailed review will follow soon.
C-Fb |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 04:04:35
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Alright, you softened me up some, and I looked through it a bit more. I do kinda like it, but if I used in in my campaign, you would still need a patron deity and some form of religeous training to use this, i.e. you would still be able to loose your status as well, but the character would not recieve the intensive training that a cleric or paladin does in chanelling divine power, they just get the very basics of how to tap into their god . . . does that sound more calm and rational on my part? (Two words rarely used in my presense . . . )
Well, you stole my thunder. Or maybe I should say, since I was planning on using said thunder against you, you just cast resist energy (sonic) on yourself.
I looked at this class and had the following thoughts in approximately this order:
- A librarian class? Are you kidding me?
- Well, for once there's an Int-based spellcaster that uses the right stat (as opposed to the artificer) which doesn't seem like a bad knockoff of the wizard (like the wu jen).
- Huh. This is looking interesting.
- Can I fit this into my campaign?
- Wait -- any divine spells? Functionally cool, but deities of knowledge don't normally have druid followers.
The problem with a deity-tied archivist is solved by the idea Knight Errant described, except for that last thought. I think I'd limit the spells, maybe even keep it to only cleric spells. This would still allow some spells not normally considered "cleric," thanks to domain spells scribed by clerics.
I'm getting very interested in this book, far more so than I was expecting, and mainly for the story-telling concepts and tips. I'm still going to do a little surreptitious reading in the aisles before shelling out the money, of course, but my players would probably enjoy some of these elements. Especially the elven paladin. She's out to Kill Evil. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 11 Oct 2005 : 14:46:51
Well, it's probably not going to be on par with the previous books on horror, as I don't think thy are trying to go that route. If it is like Heroes of Battle - which I don't know how it will be - it is going to interesting. I will no doubt pick it up as I own all 3rd edition books and it must go to the collection.
C-Fb |
| Keravin |
Posted - 11 Oct 2005 : 10:01:31
I'm interested to see this book and to compare to Darkness and Dread. Various bits of that advocated techniques very similar to how Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has operated for years.
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| Snotlord |
Posted - 10 Oct 2005 : 21:59:45
I dunno... I was hoping for a great horror book, but I have no idea what that would be. Certainly not even more mechanics.
I'll give it a look, when it arrives at my FLGS, but the table of contents was not promising. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 12:21:37
Just can't get too enthused about this book.
But then again Horror is a hard genre to do. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 11:14:23
Not only are there reprints, but the more I look over, say, the monsters, they really aren't inspiring to me. There may be some interesting stuff in this book, and I can't entirely judge it by what you see here, but this is another WOTC core book that falls behind some 3rd party purchases that I plan on making for now . . . |
| Arivia |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 06:07:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I notice there hasn't been a lot of discussion here about this upcoming accessory:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/885227200
In addition, this month's previews on the D&D website also contain some details about its content.
Thoughts?
Looks interesting-the one thing that distresses me, though, is that out of six excerpts, two are reprints.  |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 02:12:54
Alright, you softened me up some, and I looked through it a bit more. I do kinda like it, but if I used in in my campaign, you would still need a patron deity and some form of religeous training to use this, i.e. you would still be able to loose your status as well, but the character would not recieve the intensive training that a cleric or paladin does in chanelling divine power, they just get the very basics of how to tap into their god . . . does that sound more calm and rational on my part? (Two words rarely used in my presense . . . ) |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 02:02:27
To tell you the truth, if they were required to have a patron deity, I wouldn't mind it at all. The mechanics aren't the issue, as yes, it is indeed a good horror feel, not quite as flashy divine class, but the whole point of divine casters is that that have to at least beleive in SOMETHING! Sorry . . . I just get crancky when rule structures that have survived every edition start to get dismantled . . . kinda like having undead that aren't undead and are animated with positive energy . . . sigh. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 01:59:01
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Wow, not only am I not really thrilled with this book, but along with the "no deities neccissary" cleric worshipping a concept, we now have unveiled a core class in this book that essentially renders divine magic essentially the same as arcane magic. I really hope this isn't an indication of the grasp the current WOTC designers have of how the D&D rules work. Maybe its just me, but the archivist class really just screws the whole "division of powers" stuff up.
Check out the preveiw here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3
Hmmm... I actually like this class, from a limited point of view of course  . And it also depends on the setting it'll be used in.
In RAVENLOFT for example, the archivist would work particularly well in domains where the worship of gods is forbidden by the Darklord or there is a strictly enforced state-religion. And in PLANESCAPE as well... An Athar archivist sounds like an intriguing basis for an NPC.
Something like this could work well in DRAGONLANCE also, either after the First Cataclysm when the gods went silent or after the Chaos War... when the gods have been cut off from Krynn by Takhisis.
From a 3rd party setting standpoint... the archivist would make an interesting character choice for the Midnight setting... once again returning the power of divine magic to the hands of PCs. It would certainly make a Legate or two take notice.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 01:49:35
Wow, not only am I not really thrilled with this book, but along with the "no deities neccissary" cleric worshipping a concept, we now have unveiled a core class in this book that essentially renders divine magic essentially the same as arcane magic. I really hope this isn't an indication of the grasp the current WOTC designers have of how the D&D rules work. Maybe its just me, but the archivist class really just screws the whole "division of powers" stuff up.
Check out the preveiw here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3 |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 17:29:58
I'm looking forward to this book simply cause I'm a survival horror nut. ;) |
| Sanishiver |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 08:54:13
Hmmm.....where best to use this book in the Realms?
I suppose Westgate might fit, given the Vampires and whatnot. Throw in the recent influx of exiled Cormyrean nobles looking to go to any lengths to gain the means to have their Vengeance or Cormyr, and...what to do?
Well I could see an Anti-Hero game centered around and in Westgate: PC's in a campaign themed around the 'rightful' downfall of Cormyr and the extermination of the Obarskyrs at any cost.
The PC's could spend low to mid levels gaining power and influence in the cutthroat, mean streets of Westgate. The DM could use Heroes of Horror to really flesh out Westgate and establish early on that the city is far more (read: scarier, tense, subtly grim) than just what’s presented in the FRCS.
The DM could co-op the various horror themed Freeport Adventures by Green Ronin to get things started (Death in Freeport and Terror in Freeport are the first two, IIRC, and cover levels 1-5) and spice these up with the Heroes of Horror book.
The characters could spend their mid to high levels adventuring beyond the city to other lands to acquire more power (where I'm certain all manner of horrors could await them as they seek items of power for their 'noble' cause), and maybe gain allies and influence, and even make a trip or two into Cormyr to exact some plan or make deals with same-thinking Nobles.
I could see at least one ‘same-thinking Nobles’ adventure at this level of play where the players must establish cover identities and travel to Cormyr, where they discover one noble family has taken their path to treason too far, and is at the point where some demonic or hellish force has taken over prominent members of the family (see the Book of Vile Darkness for rules on possession) and has little interest in helping one group of humans over another.
Lots of potential for in-game tension and roleplaying here. If some semi-possessed noble woman is made to say that the PC’s are traitors bent on destroying Cormyr to every Purple Dragon and Priest of the Realm she encounters (the demon’s way of saying, ‘back off, or your secret’s out!’) and the lie-detecting spells of the Priests show she’s telling the truth, how best to keep this maiden quietwhile maintaining cover?
If the PC’s do a good enough job of it they could be hailed as ‘heroes’, gain an adventuring charter and some small influence in the Realm they mean to take over.
Then they could spend their Very High Levels battling with agents of Cormyr (Highknights and experienced War Wizards) and of the Harpers, and/or battling with other evil organizations such as the resurgent Zhentarim.
But best of all, the PC’s will ultimately have to deal with the machinations of Manshoon the Vampire Lord of Westgate and his horrific minions. Methinks it would be best to present Manshoon in a ‘blindsiding the PCs’ kind of way. The PC’s could learn it’s Manshoon who’s been their subtle behind the scenes benefactor that’s secretly been helping or hampering the PC's all this time (so Manshoon could take over the PCs and their whole operation, once they'd gone through all the work of setting it up, of course).
At this level of play the DM could really throw some fantastically dreadful monstrosities at the players. Sort of ‘Shoons way of saying, “If I can control this horrible thing and many more like it, and move it to and fro in Westgate without anyone the wiser, imagine what I can do to you if you do not do my bidding forthwith…”
From a plot POV, the DM can cast doubt on the player’s plans to conquer Cormyr, as Manshoon’s agents assassinate or co-op the PCs underlings. Maybe trusted NPCs the characters have known since first level turn out to be agents of Manshoon….
After the PC's defeat, fight off or perhaps show enough mettle that Manshoon decides to partner with them instead of slaying them, then they could spend Epic Levels finally invading and warring for control over Cormyr.
Sounds like Champions of Ruin and the forthcoming Power of Faerun book would be useful for this kind of plot too.
Or a DM could flip this whole concept and run a game bent on preventing a group of NPCs from overtaking Cormyr, but with many trips to horror-filled Westgate and other grim places along the way. |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 09:40:55
But what kind of special features can a "tainted" char have? I mean, is not all question of alignment? Or is in case that the evilness changes your own char? And what kind of features can that be?
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| warlockco |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 07:32:06
WotC might be taking Raveloft back under its wing. Since it seems the company that was doing the Ravenloft material for 3E wasn't given an extension.
http://www.white-wolf.com/swordsorcery/?line=news&articleid=276
they also lost the rights to Gamma World. |
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