T O P I C R E V I E W |
Weiser_Cain |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 05:14:01 What edition is FR? It seems to predate 3.5(as the CS is dated '91 and the 3.5 DM book says it was first out in '03). Are there multiple versions of FR for every edition or just one edition for FR? Will there be a 3.5 update for FR? Thanks. |
10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
The Sage |
Posted - 26 Jun 2005 : 01:31:02 quote: Originally posted by Kuje
Naughty, Naughty Sage. :)
quote: BTW that list was first created on the Boards that Must Not be Named. :)
That it was. Sarelle as I recall, was primarily responsible for first putting it together.
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warlockco |
Posted - 26 Jun 2005 : 00:43:57 PGtF has new information in there, that is way more than a few pages of updates.
And if I'm going to repurchase a book, it needs to do way more just update the rules presented in the first version of the book.
As to reprinted material in the PGtF, I see maybe at most half the book was reprinted. The PGtF introduced information that was never completely introduced before, like the messed up new Cosmology. |
SirUrza |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 21:06:25 quote: Originally posted by warlockco
So you are saying I should buy a Second Copy of the FRCS that costs more and just reprints everything?!?!
Think about it, what do you want to do..
Carry 2 hardcover books that costed you $70 or 1 book that's $50? As I said, Player's Guide was ONLY $9 less then the FRCS and didn't include an of the CS information.
So let's see, as a player, I have to carry...
PHB FRCS PGtF MoF (maybe) RoF or a Complete book or a Region book.
$9 wasn't a much of a "savings" if you consider the fact that the PGtF is 120something pages SMALLER then the FRCS and reprinted a whole lot of material that wasn't changed too.
For someone new that doesn't have either and wants to get into Forgotten Realms, they'll have to buy these 2 Core books which is awefully expensive.
I think it's silly that all the game mechanics are in 1 book and all the setting material is in the other. FRCS 3.5 could have been 20-30 pages longer to cover the 3E material from the OTHER FR books that MAY have needed updating (and only if it needed changing). Instead we spent almost as much as the FRCS for a book that was all game mechanics, some updated for 3.5 but a lot of it NOT updated for 3.5, just reprinted too make the book longer.
If you really believed you saved money on by buying the PGtF, Wizards REALLY milked you.
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Faraer |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 20:44:31 There is one Forgotten Realms. Ed first wrote about it in 1967, and since then each game edition's sourcebooks and each author's fiction has shown us the Realms from a different view, through a different lens: or shown us a different inflection of the underlying ur-Realms, the Realms proper.
Or, there are two: Ed's Realms (the one in his notes and home campaigns) and the official published TSR/WotC Realms -- which are mostly the same, but also different.
Either way, the Realms is not only a campaign setting -- that's just a use it's been put to. It's a secondary world, the term Tolkien uses in 'On Fairy Stories'.
---
The reappearance of Limbo shows that the FRCS's implication that the given planar structure is just a sample of some prominent planes is right, and that any indication that the list is definitive (is there one in PGF?) is wrong. Same with the gods. So there may be planes and gods missing from the extant 3E sources, but they aren't missing, in any other sense, from the Realms. |
warlockco |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 20:43:30 quote: Originally posted by SirUrza
FRCS, MoF, F&P, RoF, LoD, and SilverMarches are all 3E.
Everything else is 3.5. Player's Guide to Faerun is the "update" book of anything 3E that need a "conversion."
I for one would have just prefered a FRCS 3.5, but obviously Wizards got away with milking us for more money by having 2 books that server 1 purpose, instead of a FRCS that might cost $5-10 more then the original. You might think that's crazy, but PGtF costs only $9 less then the FRCS and doesn't have a fraction of the Realmslore the FRCS had. Why they couldn't have just converted the FRCS to 3.5 with an additional 10-20 pages to cover the other 3E products is beyond me.
Oh wait, I know, it's so that people that already didn't have the FRCS would STILL have to buy the FRCS AND PGtF.. for a grand total of $75 (after tax,) instead of 1 $45-50 sourcebook for EVERYONE.
So you are saying I should buy a Second Copy of the FRCS that costs more and just reprints everything?!?! |
Kuje |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 17:16:47 Naughty, Naughty Sage. :)
BTW that list was first created on the Boards that Must Not be Named. :) |
The Sage |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 09:04:36 quote: Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
What's LoD?
Lords of Darkness, a 3e supplement detailing the various evil organisations at play in the Realms.
quote: I've heard a lot of complaints about things being taken out that were in earlier versions of the game. If this is true, (is it?)
'Tis indeed true. Among the most "talked about" features of the older FR to be removed are a considerable number of deities and some of the planes in the cosmology of the Realms.
At the last count, there were at least 50 gods (many of the monstrous deities) of the previous editions of the FR setting that had been removed. Some of course have returned, or been detailed elsewhere or mentioned off hand in certain later release FR products, but there are still a considerable number that have not been included in the 3e FR material (so far!).
Here's a rough listing and their racial connections:-
Bahamut (good dragons) Titania (good faerie) Oberon (good faerie) Damh (satyrs) Rhiannon (sprites) Skerrit (centaurs) Tapann (korreds) Verenstra (dryads & nymphs) Queen of Air and Darkness (evil faerie) Nathair Sgiatach (pseudodragons and faerie dragons) Sarula Iliene (nixies) Eadro (locathah & merfolk) Emmantiensien (treants) Ramenos (bullywugs) Shekinester (nagas) Persana (tritons) Semuanya (lizardfolk - Races of Faerûn mentions him, yet he apparantly doesn't exist) Grolantor (hill giants, mountain giants & ettins) Sixin (xill) Semuanya (aarakocra) Toknana (leucrottas) Yeenoghu (gnolls) Psilofyr (myconid) Khurgorbaeyag (goblins) Nomog-Geaya (goblins) Bargrivyek (goblins) Skiggaret (bugbears) Grankhul (bugbears) Gaknulak (kobolds) Alaggoth (alaghi, quaggoth & yetis) Meriadar (mongrelfolk & non-evil goblinoids) Trishina (sea elf & dolphin - she is mentioned in F&P) Surminare (selkies) Ferrix (weretigers/cats) Balagor (werebears) Squerrik (wererats) Eshebala (foxwomen - they are in the Realm Bestiary PDF, but need an official write-up). Gzemnid (beholders) Water Lion (but as an entity such as Kezef the Chaos Hound, not a deity) Stillsong (ditto)
For myself personally, I prefer my Realms to be populated with plenty of deities, much like the older versions of the Realms -- that is, compared to what we have now. As for the planes, well, we've seen the return of Sigil and Limbo, but there are still a few more missing. Both the para- and quasi- elemental planes now no longer exist as seperate planes. Rich Baker has already established that they are now part of the four prime elemental planes.
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Weiser_Cain |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 08:09:09 What's LoD? I've heard a lot of complaints about things being taken out that were in earlier versions of the game. If this is true, (is it?) I'd rather play the old version of the game. Any advantage to playing one version over another? And why did they update so many times anyway? |
The Sage |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 05:26:48 quote: Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
What edition is FR? It seems to predate 3.5(as the CS is dated '91 and the 3.5 DM book says it was first out in '03). Are there multiple versions of FR for every edition or just one edition for FR? Will there be a 3.5 update for FR? Thanks.
FR is now in the 3e -- 3.5e specifically, if you are using the D&D revised rules as of July 2003. The Player's Guide to Faerun updates the basic setting presented in the FRCS 3e released in 2000/2001 (depending upon where you were in the world when it was released) to conform with the updated 3.5e D&D rules set.
FR as a campaign, existed long before there was a D&D game, since 1967 in fact. Here's some words from Ed on the topic of the origin of the Realms -
quote: Eventually, I hit upon the idea of doing what Fritz Leiber was doing with Fafhrd and the Mouser in the pages of FANTASTIC at the time (a magazine later merged with its sister sf publication AMAZING, which TSR acquired and published about two decades later): telling self-contained stories about his main characters that just happen to be episodes in the ongoing lives of these wandering heroes (occasionally featuring old friends or foes they’ve met before), and also just happen to be set in the same world, and add little details of that world, story by story, that a reader who knows about the other stories in the series can pounce on, and fit together with what’s already known, and build into a deeper understanding of the world.
So I start to write stories all set along the same coast (what you now know as the Sword Coast of the Realms), that share the same background. Most of them star the same main character: the fat, wheezing, sly Mirt the Moneylender (take Shakespeare’s Falstaff, and add a dash of Poul Anderson’s Nicolas van Rijn and a handful of Glencannon), who’s crafty as they come but too old and slow for great heroics. In some of the tales, he teams up with Durnan, a “thinking-man’s Conan” (strong silent type who isn’t a barbarian ignorant of the lands he’s journeying through, but who, although sensitive, believes laws and authority are usually oppressive, and to be ignored whenever they get in the way).
The first Realms tale is “One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta” (Zirta is a city now part of Scornubel), and in it we see Elminster and a lady or two who will later become famous (or infamous, depending on your viewpoint) as members of the Seven Sisters. This tale is written in 1967, and D&D isn’t released until 1974 (1975 to me and most of the wider world), so my fiction writing in the Realms predates the game.
As a result, I was piling details up far more deeply than most published game settings ever acquire, long before there WAS a D&D game (can’t do registered trademark symbols in this primitive e-mail, but please take it as written that they’re here, okay?).
I so admired the release of AD&D (specifically the Players Handbook, which put a Vancian magic system into specific game terms, just as the Monster Manual had already quantified monster specifics) that I turned the Realms into a matching-the-game setting. Regular Realmsplay started in 1978, and longtime Realms fans will notice that the greatest detail in the published Realms is found in places (Waterdeep, Cormyr, the Dales) where longtime adventuring companies (Player Characters) were based.
My players were and are superb actors/roleplayers, and demanded a world that felt real. They always wanted to know what was inside that caravan wagon passing by, and why (which of course forces some world design decisions on the DM, because the cargoes obviously mean that Place X produces an excess of cloth, but needs metals, and Place Y needs that cloth, and so on). As a result, the Realms got literally days (uh, when I was going to school, which would be my “study time”) of me puzzling out economics, trade routes, currents, prevailing winds, floods and droughts, mineral wealth locations, and so on. Again, others have worked in the Realms, so not all of this survives in a coherent manner, and of course it’s never been set forth in a “Trading & Traders” or “Merchants & Money” product, because many gamers would avoid such a product in droves. :}
So that’s the way I did it. DRAGON issue 54 contains my work-in-progress unfolding of a pantheon of gods, and a glance at that article will show you three things at work: like all D&D gamers at the time, I was trying to stay official, matching deities with what Gary Gygax had revealed of his (the Greyhawk setting); I wanted lots of gods (one aspect of the Realms that’s thus far been neglected is the extent to which Jonthun the baker next door worships Chauntea for a good harvest, Tymora for good luck in the baking, Talos for good weather so the grain crops won’t be ruined, and so on, all in the same day); and I wanted lots of small, evil cults so PCs would have lots of evil rituals to disrupt and maidens to rescue off of sinister altars. :} (Another element we haven’t yet properly addressed in print is clergy: exactly what prayers do they prey, what do they wear, what are their taboos, aims in life, and what are the hidden agendas or personal pursuits of the controlling clergy; all of that. We know entirely too much about the gods, and not enough about their churches.)
And yes, Josh, it takes time. Oodles and oodles of time. More than 35 years for me, thus far; the Realms has become my life, taken me all over the world, and changed everything for me.
The 1e boxed set, affectionately known as 'The Old Gray Box', was released in 1987 and was Ed's "main" attempt to fit his concept of the Realms into a standard D&D framework using the D&D rules of that period -- 1e. After that, we received an updated boxed set of the core setting of the Realms in 1991/92, which attempted to carry the story of the Realms forward, including much of the events portrayed in the novels before this time -- specifically the Time of Troubles. And again in 1996, another revised boxed set was released updating the setting post-Tuigan invasion. Each successive working of Ed's original work on the Realms has attempted to build and expand upon much of what he established as the core Realms in the 1e boxed set published in 1987.
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SirUrza |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 05:18:23 FRCS, MoF, F&P, RoF, LoD, and SilverMarches are all 3E.
Everything else is 3.5. Player's Guide to Faerun is the "update" book of anything 3E that need a "conversion."
I for one would have just prefered a FRCS 3.5, but obviously Wizards got away with milking us for more money by having 2 books that server 1 purpose, instead of a FRCS that might cost $5-10 more then the original. You might think that's crazy, but PGtF costs only $9 less then the FRCS and doesn't have a fraction of the Realmslore the FRCS had. Why they couldn't have just converted the FRCS to 3.5 with an additional 10-20 pages to cover the other 3E products is beyond me.
Oh wait, I know, it's so that people that already didn't have the FRCS would STILL have to buy the FRCS AND PGtF.. for a grand total of $75 (after tax,) instead of 1 $45-50 sourcebook for EVERYONE.
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