| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Oct 2011 : 15:34:17
So I am in the process of buying a house right now (rebuilding the old one is both a headache and also stupid in today's Buyer's Market), and the Real Estate Site I have been using runs ads for D&D! 
First off, don't WotC realize that most D&D player's live in their Mom's Basement? Or worse (the current crop), 12-14 yr-olds that are not in the market for a house (and will probably live in their Mom's basement). Then there are the 'professional types' (a lot of us here) who's partner's no longer allow them to actually play the game anymore.
And if they are shopping for a house, don't you think they would get in-trouble because their partner would rather they throw out all their "geeky gaming crap" before moving into a new home?
Okay, so much for the rant about more of WotC's apparent inability to make decisions that make sense - they don't even seem to know where to advertise (and once again I bring up those enormous - and brilliant - Redgar stand-ups and end-cap displays at ALL the book stores when 3e was released).
So now on to the the rant-topic at hand.... 
The flash-ad on the sidebar was for something called 'Lair Assault' and first said "You can Roleplay your death scene"
Okaaaaaay.... dying is precisely what I want to avoid, but I guess I've been playing this game wrong.... 
Then it said "A challenge for Tacticians, Rules Experts, Min/Maxers, & Power Gamers".
Just when I was way past caring, they start advertising that they are a game for people I would rather not play with (spoiled brats with huge egos), and make it seem like the only point at which you can actually roleplay in their RPG is when you die!
This isn't a rant aimed at designers - it is a rant aimed at their highly incompetent advertising dept. Where are those geniuses that worked for them when 3e was released? From the get-go, this has to be one of THE WORST ad-campaigns I have ever witnessed. It's like they don't even know who their target audience is. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jakk |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 20:40:43
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You don't know the half of it....
I had gotten a new copy of Adobe suite just so I could build an interactive website, detailing a complete fantasy setting, ready-to-use (including tons of maps), all for free. I even had a couple of artists onboard, and if everything worked-out like I planned, I was hoping to get some real designers to eventually detail a few areas, and maybe segway into a 'sponsorship' model (maybe).
I was planning on using the site as a platform - give the setting away, and then sell other things from there (my true goal was to get the setting so popular I could write novels for it). I had even planned to print-out some gorgeous maps and hand them out at Gencon, to create buzz.
Another goal was to also create my own set of level-free rules for RPGing (based on many of my houserules). In fact, my model was very similar to what they propose for 5e (basic rules, and then continuously adding 'layers' of detail). That would have been free downloads as well (with the eventual goal of selling printed books, if there was a demand for that). The 'give the rules away' model worked well for Paizo, so that is why I had considered rules as another avenue to possibly pursue.
All of this was inspired by the popularity of my DeviantART page - I used to take stuff down to put up new stuff, because they limited your storage size, and I didn't want to have to pay to upgrade. Then they 'granted' me unlimited storage for FREE, because of the traffic I get, which made me think "If a company thinks I am worth keeping around, then maybe I can do something with this myself".
So, yeah.... that's pretty much all gone now. I try to find the "silver-lining" - sometimes you need a 'fresh perspective' to clean all the crap out of your design. I still have hopes to do some of this, some day. Hell, I even had a mini-line all planned. 
Oy... well, I'm happy that you can even think of the words "silver lining" without wanting to strangle the source of the phrase at a time like this.
Level-free rules... I'm very interested in this. I've had a skeletal system for classless d20 assembled for quite some time now (based on the Eclipse products by Distant Horizons Games), but I've never been happy with anything that eliminates level entirely... largely because of my inability to eliminate the mechanics of spell level, which then becomes tied to some means of eligibility for such. I suppose tying it to the caster's relevant ability score and casting skill rank would cover it... skill ranks aren't any more or less open to min-max abuse than attack and defense bonuses, and that's the biggest problem with a level-free system to begin with. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how you'd deal with these issues.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And BTW, this site is a terrific sounding-board for ideas - the feedback is great. I think I am not the only one who has figured this out (which is a good thing, for all of us).
Are you referring to WotC as a company? Please? I don't know any more who's freelancing and who;s an actual employee of WotC, so I've given up trying to determine whether or not our ideas are actually reaching the people who can use them to really change the game. And does this mean that you're now less pessimistic about 5e than you've indicated elsewhere?  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 19:24:30
You don't know the half of it....
I had gotten a new copy of Adobe suite just so I could build an interactive website, detailing a complete fantasy setting, ready-to-use (including tons of maps), all for free. I even had a couple of artists onboard, and if everything worked-out like I planned, I was hoping to get some real designers to eventually detail a few areas, and maybe segway into a 'sponsorship' model (maybe).
I was planning on using the site as a platform - give the setting away, and then sell other things from there (my true goal was to get the setting so popular I could write novels for it). I had even planned to print-out some gorgeous maps and hand them out at Gencon, to create buzz.
Another goal was to also create my own set of level-free rules for RPGing (based on many of my houserules). In fact, my model was very similar to what they propose for 5e (basic rules, and then continuously adding 'layers' of detail). That would have been free downloads as well (with the eventual goal of selling printed books, if there was a demand for that). The 'give the rules away' model worked well for Paizo, so that is why I had considered rules as another avenue to possibly pursue.
All of this was inspired by the popularity of my DeviantART page - I used to take stuff down to put up new stuff, because they limited your storage size, and I didn't want to have to pay to upgrade. Then they 'granted' me unlimited storage for FREE, because of the traffic I get, which made me think "If a company thinks I am worth keeping around, then maybe I can do something with this myself".
So, yeah.... that's pretty much all gone now. I try to find the "silver-lining" - sometimes you need a 'fresh perspective' to clean all the crap out of your design. I still have hopes to do some of this, some day. Hell, I even had a mini-line all planned.
And BTW, this site is a terrific sounding-board for ideas - the feedback is great. I think I am not the only one who has figured this out (which is a good thing, for all of us). |
| Jakk |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 04:22:20
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Trolls come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.
In my HB world, trolls are smallish, almost like 'dire dwarves' (see the movie Troll), or like the ones in the Moonshaes (Runequest called the small ones 'trollkin').
I think the large ones from folklore are redundant with Ogres, so I don't have those (like the ones in Middle Earth). I do have a similar creature to the D&D Troll, which was a unique creation for the game (based on no RW monster) - my working title is 'fenfiend'. Its just a place-holder for now.
I also don't have traditional Ogres. Those are the children of Hags (like the Hagspawn from UE). Hags, in my world, can change their size, and are the females of the giant race (one race, multiple templates). Both hags and Ogres eat people (something harkening back to OD&D and folklore). They can also change their appearance (all fey can, and my giants are fey).
Boy did I change the direction of this scroll. Good thing I changed the title. 
Heh... interesting stuff... and I suppose that whatever's not still in your head somewhere is gone, right?  Otherwise, I'd say "post it all!" Which, in hindsight, you're probably wishing you'd done now...  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 03:45:37
Trolls come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.
In my HB world, trolls are smallish, almost like 'dire dwarves' (see the movie Troll), or like the ones in the Moonshaes (Runequest called the small ones 'trollkin').
I think the large ones from folklore are redundant with Ogres, so I don't have those (like the ones in Middle Earth). I do have a similar creature to the D&D Troll, which was a unique creation for the game (based on no RW monster) - my working title is 'fenfiend'. Its just a place-holder for now.
I also don't have traditional Ogres. Those are the children of Hags (like the Hagspawn from UE). Hags, in my world, can change their size, and are the females of the giant race (one race, multiple templates). Both hags and Ogres eat people (something harkening back to OD&D and folklore). They can also change their appearance (all fey can, and my giants are fey).
Boy did I change the direction of this scroll. Good thing I changed the title. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 03:21:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wish I was a troll - having a healing factor like that would be awesome.
And the fire thing doesn't bother me - I wouldn't want to get burned regardless. Except for dragons and fiends, shouldn't everyone be afraid fire?
The sickly skin coloring and carrot-nose would bother me, though.
I agree on all counts... I'm already tall and long-limbed, with questionable posture, but yeah, the rest of the physical appearance thing isn't exactly something I'd ask for. If I could be purple instead of guacamole, that would be a step forward; my DM has a D&D Troll mini (from the days of official metal D&D minis) and his wife (GF at the time) did an awesome painting job... without referencing the MM for accurate coloration. The purple skin and orange eyes are seriously cool, tho... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 20:22:02
I wish I was a troll - having a healing factor like that would be awesome.
And the fire thing doesn't bother me - I wouldn't want to get burned regardless. Except for dragons and fiends, shouldn't everyone be afraid fire?
The sickly skin coloring and carrot-nose would bother me, though. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 19:23:05
Okay, what's all this then? People are calling each other trolls and I'm not one of them? Please! Did you see any of my posts back in late '08 reacting to the Spellplague? Anyway, it's true that all of that was in the past, and I've been diluting my trollish blood with good Cormyr lore from January's DDI (and older sources), but I still object to being left off the troll-call (and my bad puns should earn me some cred here too).
 This is far too much fun... I'd better find another scroll and make myself useful. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:42:02
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
LOL - who dredged this up?
The point is rather moot now, eh?
quit acting like a Troll!  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:25:33
LOL - who dredged this up?
The point is rather moot now, eh? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 10:59:14
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
BTW. It's funny how I'm called a troll for stating that I'm insulted by someones words, but when Arivia demands cease of conversation about a topic that just MIGHT offend someone, Mods applaud and everyone backs up to not upset anyone.
A trolls opinion isn't important, right?
Oh, yes, trying to keep the peace and not get mired down in real-world topics that have already proven to be troublesome is applauding.
If you don't want to be called a troll, don't act like one. And if you want mods to react when you are insulted, don't play up to the insults.
And for the love of Lurue, stop with the "I'm so persecuted!" routine. You've got that much of a problem with the Sage and I, take it up with us by PM, or take it up with Big Al. We don't need the constant "I'm not being supported 100%, so I'm a victim!" crap. |
| Imp |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 08:52:44
quote:
The very fact that you felt the need to acknowledge such a statement, suggests to me that you've already apparently changed to cater to what others may claim about you. Or at least create the perception of acceding to what someone else has said about you.
No, not really. I did in no way changed my behavior or attitude based on someone else's words.
quote:
Of course they're not allowed. But you've kind of muddied the waters somewhat, with your response.
Oh. So using sarcasm all of a sudden gives everyone the privilege to not follow CoC?
As I said before, if I did something wrong, deal with it as a Moderator, instead of questioning me like I'm some kind of villain. All I did was express that Marcustay's words insulted me and asked (not demanded) if he could say it a little differently at least in the future.
And I didn't notice that the thread is a little old. My mistake. It wasn't that low on the list of threads. But I don't even know why am I explaining myself.
BTW. It's funny how I'm called a troll for stating that I'm insulted by someones words, but when Arivia demands cease of conversation about a topic that just MIGHT offend someone, Mods applaud and everyone backs up to not upset anyone.
A trolls opinion isn't important, right? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 02:18:05
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
I'm not going to change just to cater to random people on the internet.
Maybe I'm mistaken here, but you seem to be contradicting yourself, based on your prior actions.
For example:-
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
I was called a troll, so I obviously must be a troll.
The very fact that you felt the need to acknowledge such a statement, suggests to me that you've already apparently changed to cater to what others may claim about you. Or at least create the perception of acceding to what someone else has said about you.
quote:
If I've breached this sites CoC or if you already branded me as a troll, go ahead and ban me or warn me or whatever. But if I didn't, it would be very nice if you Mods could do something with such rude posts as the one that calls me a troll. I was under the impression that such posts aren't allowed.
Of course they're not allowed. But you've kind of muddied the waters somewhat, with your response. |
| Imp |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 01:33:55
I'm not going to change just to cater to random people on the internet.
If I've breached this sites CoC or if you already branded me as a troll, go ahead and ban me or warn me or whatever. But if I didn't, it would be very nice if you Mods could do something with such rude posts as the one that calls me a troll. I was under the impression that such posts aren't allowed. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 00:57:49
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
I was called a troll, so I obviously must be a troll.
But isn't such action just confirming the judgements others make of you? |
| Imp |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 21:04:19
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
quote:
Though I admit I somehwat agree with Imp (wow, never thought I'd type that phrase)
You have a problem with me, say it straight.
We seem not to agree on many discussion here at the 'Keep, but on the topic of Munchkins, powergamers, and Min/Maxers, we do. I was speaking in jest, nothing more or nothing less.
Oh, okay. Sorry. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 20:44:03
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
quote:
Though I admit I somehwat agree with Imp (wow, never thought I'd type that phrase)
You have a problem with me, say it straight.
We seem not to agree on many discussion here at the 'Keep, but on the topic of Munchkins, powergamers, and Min/Maxers, we do. I was speaking in jest, nothing more or nothing less. |
| Imp |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 20:16:35
I was called a troll, so I obviously must be a troll. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 20:10:53
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
I troll when I can.
I certainly hope this was a joke, because trollish behavior violates the Code of Conduct we all agreed to when we joined this site. |
| Imp |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 19:32:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
You didn't even bother to read the scroll before trolling into it this time, Imp?
I troll when I can.
quote:
Though I admit I somehwat agree with Imp (wow, never thought I'd type that phrase)
You have a problem with me, say it straight. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 04:11:36
Wait....you mean people DON'T have the Char_Op page linked as a favorite??! I'm good for checking it like twice a day, if only to see what they'll roll out with next.
Though I admit I somehwat agree with Imp (wow, never thought I'd type that phrase) in that Munchkin isn't the same as Powergamer to me. Munchkins often straight-up cheat and take large amounts of liberties with the Rules-As-Written and Rule-As-Intended arguments. Powergames often work within the confines of their space, eeeking out every bit of whatever they deem worthy of....well "breaking" but don't abuse RAI or RAW unless it's specifically ruled a certain way by WotC errata, a Customer Service decision, or a DM.
To say that I'd be insulted by it, well that's a bit extreme IMO. But as Jakk says, just own it and arguments usually just go away. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 03:57:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Holy necromancy, Batman!
Nah... this scroll was only three months old. Around here, it's scroll necromancy if it's been dormant for three years. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 03:51:50
You didn't even bother to read the scroll before trolling into it this time, Imp? |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 03:20:46
Holy necromancy, Batman! |
| Jakk |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 03:11:55
I've been a powergamer... I think every RPG'er has been at some point in their gaming lives... and even when I was, I had no problem with the term "munchkin"... I guess it's like other offensive terms (which I won't repeat here): own it, and it ceases to be offensive. I respond the same way to accusations of geekdom: "Yeah, and I'm a better one than you!" That usually confuses the intended offender into silence and hastened absence. |
| Imp |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 21:33:47
quote:
Then it said "A challenge for Tacticians, Rules Experts, Min/Maxers, & Power Gamers".
Just when I was way past caring, they start advertising that they are a game for people I would rather not play with (spoiled brats with huge egos)
I'm a powergamer and min/maxer and I feel insulted by your words.
Also, if it wont make a big difference to you, please don't use "munchkin" when talking about a "powergamer", because it's not the same and it's insulting. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2011 : 18:19:53
BTW, this was in NO WAY another 'bash 4e ad' - I am actually of the opinion now that I hope it succeeds (truly - the alternative is something I don't think any of us wants).
That's why the ad irked me so much - it was just that bad (IMHO). I had no idea it was about a specific event/encounter that WotC is running in conjunction with stores - it appears (to me) as just another 4e ad, which is the whole problem with it; if I think that, so will others. There isn't enough info in the ad itself to see that it is a specific adventure with specific goals in mind.
Something like "The culmination of a lifetime of adventuring" would have been so much better then "Roleplay your death". Like so much else (concerning 4e hype), it just doesn't seem very well thought-out, and even counter-productive.
Please, PLEASE WotC guys - use FOCUS GROUPS!!! You may understand what you are trying to convey, but by now, I would hope you realize your points are just not coming across the way you see them. Hasbro has an excellent advertising Dept. - either you are not using them, or they do not understand the product(s).
I don't know what sort of budget-constraints you guys are under, but take a note from the Privateer Press guys - when they were pushing Warmachine, almost every LGS had evangelists (company-hired advocates that ran games) there every weekend. Those folks got paid in free products, and did a bang-up job stimulating interest in the game (I know, I bought tons of the stuff).
You know what I got when I heard about 4e and asked at my LGS? The guy behind the counter - who I've know for over 20 years - said "You mean Wizard's latest money-grab?"
THAT from the guy who is supposed to be selling your products.
And the explanation about why I saw that ad on my Real-Estate site just makes it worse - the only people seeing these products are the people already aware of D&D? That' not good, considering 4e's target audience (new players). Think about that form of advertising - if they never visit a similar product site, they will never see your ad... not good, not good at all.
On the other hand, I think face-to-face RPGing is dead, so I hope your gaming-table app is stupendous, because I think that is the future of D&D. Kids no longer want to leave their rooms to play games (which is just very sad). I still think you need to give it away for FREE, and then charge for 'perks' (the same profit-model used by Zynga/Facebook games - its brilliant).
Turn the game-table into a FREE flash-app and watch the cash roll in. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Oct 2011 : 10:52:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Where else would you find one of those few rare copies of a My Little Pony RPG sitting right alongside a first edition copy of BattleTech?
I don't know that I'd admit to owning the My Little Pony RPG.
I was only playing it because I wanted to make sure it was an appropriate RPG for Narnra, once she approaches "gaming-age." 
Suuurrree you were... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Oct 2011 : 06:35:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Where else would you find one of those few rare copies of a My Little Pony RPG sitting right alongside a first edition copy of BattleTech?
I don't know that I'd admit to owning the My Little Pony RPG.
I was only playing it because I wanted to make sure it was an appropriate RPG for Narnra, once she approaches "gaming-age." |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 28 Oct 2011 : 05:53:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
The ad was probably a Google ad or something like it. The ad content is keyed to your previous browsing history. If you've visited related sites or searched for related topics, the ads are catered to your tastes.
Exactly!
They know where you have been, and they are finetuning their ads to your taste. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Oct 2011 : 04:25:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Where else would you find one of those few rare copies of a My Little Pony RPG sitting right alongside a first edition copy of BattleTech?
I don't know that I'd admit to owning the My Little Pony RPG. |
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