| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 21 Oct 2011 : 22:36:03
Greetings old friends and sages!
I hope that I'm posting in the most proper area for this subject. I scanned all of them and felt that this was it, but if not, I send my apologizes in this first paragraph and ask for proper guidance.
It has been many moons since I've opened up a Forgotten Realms or any sort of Dungeon and Dragons style roleplay book. Matter of fact, I had to sell all of them three years ago :( - but it seems that Tyche herself might have had a hand in my fate. I have since started a new job and recently have been recruited to be the Dungeon Master for several students as a "Structured Activity" at least once a week for two hours at a time.
I've spoken with my guys and they haven't given me too much to work with or as they described it "You're the DM, it's your story, we're easy."....great.
They want to start Lv. 1, in any world setting and aren't looking for much. I personally have a strong history within Faerun and Forgotten Realms, but I understand that Pathfinder may be a strong choice nowadays. I'm looking for the ups and downs to the general spectrum of most campaign settings but admit I favor Realms / Pathfinder at this time.
What other accessories are there? I know I used to own a Demons and Devils book that had stats and things for a host of critters and monsters. What downloadable / printable materials are there that you might have that I could too?
Lastly...the catch. I've never played nor been a master :( I wasn't really enabled too before I had to grab life by the horns and start my ride. What books, suggestions, anything do you have that I can take from? I'm an unused, new slate waiting to be written on and needing all the help I can get - I'm a perfectionist so I have to do this right :)
All help is a Wish come true, big and small :)
Thank you!!
-Nerian
(Charles) |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Matt James |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 11:35:01
I haven't done this yet (way too busy designing future Realms content), but I want to do a pre-Spellplague campaign using 4e. For the same reasons Erik described, I find the system much easier to use when storytelling. I have my own bastardizations and cap-systems applied, so it really works well for me. I rarely, if ever, have to reference a game book. |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 23 Oct 2011 : 00:56:39
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Since you seem to be heavily considering Pathfinder, I thought that maybe you should be made aware of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (compiled and hosted by Paizo) and the Pathfinder SRD which make the core rules and all of the supplements available to you free online. Also, if you want to use 3.x Realms material with Pathfinder, just make sure to treat all of the challenge ratings as one less. I ran Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave with my players using the Pathfinder rules with no problem.
Yeah, I've been stalking the Paizo website most of the day and encountered those on my path. Wasn't sure of their value but it's appearing that they're a necessity for sure. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 23:31:13
Since you seem to be heavily considering Pathfinder, I thought that maybe you should be made aware of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (compiled and hosted by Paizo) and the Pathfinder SRD which make the core rules and all of the supplements available to you free online. Also, if you want to use 3.x Realms material with Pathfinder, just make sure to treat all of the challenge ratings as one less. I ran Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave with my players using the Pathfinder rules with no problem. |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 20:27:21
So many solid responses... I think I'll break them all down to two new posts, but my gosh... thank you everyone!
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
(snipped)
I'm favoring Pathfinder (Golarion) very heavily since chatting with a good friend last night, looking up the information, etc. I will agree with you on the 4E Realms - I believe a few months before the release of information, destruction's and so forth is when I stepped out and bid my farewell to how heavily I was involved within it.
quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
(snipped)
I will take your advice about being the story teller to heart. I have throughout my Realms time figured that a campaign is yours to only such a limit :)
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
(snipped)
Love all of this advice and not killing the characters if it gets to that point is a beautiful thing - thank you. It something I might have struggled with asking myself to or not to do ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
(snipped)
Thank you for supply a general over view of many of these. I am agreeing with (just based on what I've learned, not experienced) when it comes to Pathfinder. I am finding a lot of useful things here and I further know that I could easily incorporate a lot of my Realms threads to this setting and yet maintain this awesomeness that I am finding Pathfinder to be. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
(snipped)
Long time, no speak sir :) I believe that I am going to aim for 4E here when it comes to Pathfinder as I know these guys have never played Pathfinder and I think I need to lasso them in a little bit from their imagination. I am working with a character connection of a brothel..and listening to them just roll dice sometimes makes my ears bleed. The only aspect of Realms I think I am going to do is pull pieces from it here and there to fluff up the world, create their story, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
(snipped)
Love this advice - thank you. It's certainly an aspect I know that I would have likely done, not thinking of their stand point and interests. :)
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 09:17:12
It is a subtle battle between the DM and his enemies, the players.
Misdirection is the key to survival. Never attack what your enemy defends, never behave as your enemy expects, and never reveal your true strength. If knowledge is power, then to be unknown is to be unconquerable. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 06:25:42
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I was not trying to be anti 4th, only offered ideas use rules already read. As far as it goes the players as new as the DM (hopefully), might be wanting to play Pathfinder or 4th Edition. After all those are the only two being promoted at this time. The DM must be aware of player desire as to rules or even setting, though rules clearly can matter most.
The last point certainly important, most of the rules sets cover almost everything that will be tried, however sometimes a rule needs to be made during a game.
Should the need for a rule be made it should be written down, as DM you will need to keep many notes. The NPCs, the monsters, the buildings and so on.
I thought your response was well done. It didn't come off as anti-4E at all so it's all good  . You mentined the SRD and I had totally forgotten about that tid-bit. Pathfinder has one too so maybe the free stuff would certainly be a better option for you Neriandal?
Also, they released the entire Keep on the Shadowfell adventure for free in PDF form AND free content to run it in the Realms or other settings HERE. THIS page also have downloads for Character Sheets and some pre-generated characters for you to use as well.
I'd say use what free stuff you like, toy with the rules and options and after presenting it to your group, decide on whats best and go from there.
Happy gaming! |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 05:52:19
When deciding on a system, you'll want to go with what your players enjoy most, and what you yourself feel most comfortable using to tell a story. Personally, I find 4e WAY easier to DM than 3.5 (fewer mechanical acrobatics, particularly regarding monster design and skill usage), and just as fulfilling in a storytelling sense. (And I've run 2e, 3e, and 4e pretty much as long as those editions have been around.) I might suggest you try both and see which works better for your group.
If you do indeed want to go with a 4e game and are keen on using the Realms, you might check out the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. I don't suggest it because I'm biased (I was one of the lead designers), but because it's specifically designed to encourage a story-based game that's pretty well rounded for low-level PCs. There's lots of story ties for PCs, acres of story threads for the DM, and a snazzy map (which I had nothing to do with, alas).
Cheers |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 05:30:51
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
As the DM of our group since '05, I've DM'ed in 3E, v3.5, Pathfinder, d20 Modern, and 4E. The Forgotten Realms is a splendid setting to start with, but lets stick to the basics first. What edition of the game do you want to run? From my experience I feel 3E/PF is a tad bit harder to start up from scratch than 4E's system (both are very fun to play, so it's not a this vs. that thing). Pathfinder is coming out with a new introduction to the setting (Golarion) and rules system for their product and it aimed at new players. 4E has a similar product already out called the Red Box, which also has introductionary rules and an "Adventure as you read book" which I hear is pretty fun. Once decided, you should move onto setting.
Golarion is, to be frank, Awesome. I've played one AP (adventure path) called Rise of the Runelords and it has been a blast so far. The description of creatures is fun. Combat is dynamic and they utilize the surroundings a lot. The NPCs seem pretty real to me as are their mannerisms and goals. It's a very detailed and fun world to game in.
Forgotten Realms is also a great setting to use as well. Regardless of Edition (most people here on Candlekeep like pre-4E, but I blend the two for my own unique version) the world has pretty much any genre your looking for. From a game setting, it's pretty darn diverse and there usually some place where a PC can be connected to.
Eberron is another interesting setting as it's a bit more technologically advanced. They have lightning rail systems, sky-ships, and golems that do a lot of the mundane work. They're history is pretty involved with the setting but it's divorced from the novels, so writers can do whatever they want and not effect the over-all story of the setting. In addition, I've been told that it's more of a "Steam-Punk" feel than high fantasy/medieval feel.
Dark Sun (4E) has been continuously called one of the best settings of that Edition. The races, feel, and style of the game is like no other currently produced. It uses a dying world devoid of Deities, magic often has random and dangerous side effects, and races aren't what they appear (halflings are cannibals, if you can believe that!). Metal is extreamly rare on the planet and most of the inhabitants use other forms of weaponary such as bones, stick, and treated glass. It's very Post-Apocolypse at it's best.
Hope that gives you some insight on what other settings there are out and the styles it caters to.
One tip for being DM, take a lots of notes and be consistant. If you make a rule on the fly then jot it down and use it until someone can look up the answer or if the players like the rule, keep it. There's nothing worse than someone looking up rules to stop a great game.
I was not trying to be anti 4th, only offered ideas use rules already read. As far as it goes the players as new as the DM (hopefully), might be wanting to play Pathfinder or 4th Edition. After all those are the only two being promoted at this time. The DM must be aware of player desire as to rules or even setting, though rules clearly can matter most.
The last point certainly important, most of the rules sets cover almost everything that will be tried, however sometimes a rule needs to be made during a game.
Should the need for a rule be made it should be written down, as DM you will need to keep many notes. The NPCs, the monsters, the buildings and so on. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 05:07:52
As the DM of our group since '05, I've DM'ed in 3E, v3.5, Pathfinder, d20 Modern, and 4E. The Forgotten Realms is a splendid setting to start with, but lets stick to the basics first. What edition of the game do you want to run? From my experience I feel 3E/PF is a tad bit harder to start up from scratch than 4E's system (both are very fun to play, so it's not a this vs. that thing). Pathfinder is coming out with a new introduction to the setting (Golarion) and rules system for their product and it aimed at new players. 4E has a similar product already out called the Red Box, which also has introductionary rules and an "Adventure as you read book" which I hear is pretty fun. Once decided, you should move onto setting.
Golarion is, to be frank, Awesome. I've played one AP (adventure path) called Rise of the Runelords and it has been a blast so far. The description of creatures is fun. Combat is dynamic and they utilize the surroundings a lot. The NPCs seem pretty real to me as are their mannerisms and goals. It's a very detailed and fun world to game in.
Forgotten Realms is also a great setting to use as well. Regardless of Edition (most people here on Candlekeep like pre-4E, but I blend the two for my own unique version) the world has pretty much any genre your looking for. From a game setting, it's pretty darn diverse and there usually some place where a PC can be connected to.
Eberron is another interesting setting as it's a bit more technologically advanced. They have lightning rail systems, sky-ships, and golems that do a lot of the mundane work. They're history is pretty involved with the setting but it's divorced from the novels, so writers can do whatever they want and not effect the over-all story of the setting. In addition, I've been told that it's more of a "Steam-Punk" feel than high fantasy/medieval feel.
Dark Sun (4E) has been continuously called one of the best settings of that Edition. The races, feel, and style of the game is like no other currently produced. It uses a dying world devoid of Deities, magic often has random and dangerous side effects, and races aren't what they appear (halflings are cannibals, if you can believe that!). Metal is extreamly rare on the planet and most of the inhabitants use other forms of weaponary such as bones, stick, and treated glass. It's very Post-Apocolypse at it's best.
Hope that gives you some insight on what other settings there are out and the styles it caters to.
One tip for being DM, take a lots of notes and be consistant. If you make a rule on the fly then jot it down and use it until someone can look up the answer or if the players like the rule, keep it. There's nothing worse than someone looking up rules to stop a great game. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 02:39:11
Nerian hi there.
This might belong better under general chat or running the Realms, if so the moderators agree they will move entire thread. Now as to your questions.
You indicate your owned books, however failed to ever played. There is a difference in game theory which books provide and game experience.
For someone first starting to play as DM I would advise the KIS (Keep It Simple) principle. As already indicated you do not need much of a world for level One play, very little world map needs to be known.
What you would need to do is provide deities, a local history of the area the party would start out at. There of course needs to be an adventure, wolves, goblins, kobolds, etc. in order to get the party together to start play.
The version of rules should not matter all that much, though I would advise you to use the rules you sold a few years ago. Which likely is 3rd Edition. The reason I advise this is that you have already read them, another reason would be the SRD which provides quick access to rules.
As you know the Realms at least some, it tends to make sense to use that as the world setting. As to roleplay for level one it is not a big factor where the village or hamlet is. The flavor of the starting campaign though could have rumors or news coming into the community from Sword Coast, Waterdeep or other region too far away for level ones to travel to , but close enough to get news from. This might be your second decision, the first being which rule set you are going to use.
As to Pathfinder, the rules as I understand it, certainly can be used for Realm play. Many have refereed to it as 3.75 (somewhere in between 3.5 and 4th Edition rules.
Prepackage modules I offer no advice, have not done one in years.
As DM you will need to know at least four times what the players will ask you. You might write the description for the Smith something like this.
quote:
You know you need weapons and the best place to get them would be the blacksmith, Garth.
As most parties forming, they also might need backpacks, rations, so other sources of supply should be provided, maybe even a candlestick maker.
Once, if, the party goes to the blacksmith you might have ready something like this.
quote:
As you enter the Smithy you see Garth hammering on the avail. At your entry being noticed, takes a horse shoe and places in the coals. "Good people, how may I serve you?"
Garth glances to the boy "light on the bellows" then looks back to you for your reply.
Many will not ask the name of the boy, some might not even notice the boy at all. As DM however you would need a name for the boy, and should the RP so develop might need to know a lot about him. In some ways going off the map is something a DM has to be ready for. Maybe next game session boy might be kidnapped and the mission is to rescued. The DM offers a goal, kill all wolves, drive out kobolds, kill all goblins, recuse someone. As far as it goes all four could be offered and let the party select. How the party tries to achieve any selected goal, or invents a new one is up to them. As DM you moderate the world and play the NPCs, you are not there to win or lose. The only way a DM loses is if players decide he is unfair. For you players it is not a win or lose either, for them it is skill building. Getting a job done or die trying and learning from experience.
A good game is like winning and losing some battles in a great war. Even if the war still going on when a character dies of old age, what matters is how the battles went. The life experience of learning.
Oh try not to be a killer DM, sometimes even level 1 modules can kill a level 1 party because of poor dice rolls. This advice however does not apply to characters that do extremely risky things. A single fighter charging 5 orcs better be good with dice in order to live a few rounds. There let the dice fall as they do. Dice fudging sometimes appear to be indicated when a random dice creates a far greater hazard then average toward the party that are not being foolish.
Lots of advive here, welcome to the ranks of "I first played D&D as a DM", should you accept the task and move forward.
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| idilippy |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 01:54:36
quote:
Originally posted by HalidanYou can't just download the pdf like you an with Hallow's Last Hope, which I agree with you is an excellent module for a new group of players.
Actually you can, just click Add pdf and it adds the pdf to your downloads. That's how I got it, since I wasn't able to get to a game store for free RPG day and I haven't bought the $5 book.
Back on topic, I agree with buying the Gamemaster's Guide for Pathfinder if you've never DMed, it is a great resource with plenty of guidelines and tips that are familiar to most people who have DMed for a while but are still useful. The Bestiary would be nice too, though you can just use the PRD or d20pfsrd.com for now until you are able to get a copy.
Also, being a story teller is nice, but a DM is not only a story teller. The DMs job isn't just to make a story that the PCs follow no matter what, but also to set a stage and some props and watch the PCs as they improv a story with those ideas. Letting the players tell their story, with you as a mediator and interpreter of how the world responds to their actions, is just as valid of a DMing style as putting together an entire story for your PCs to follow. Whatever you do, try not to set anything fully in stone. Players can do crazy things: bypassing objects and NPCs that should be vital to your plot, getting interested in something you were just using as background material, fighting when they should talk, trying to talk when you expect them to fight, and generally destroying pre-arranged plots without even realizing it. Flexibility and the ability to modify your plans to accommodate the player's actions, rather than forcing their actions to accommodate your plans, is one key to being a DM. |
| Halidan |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 01:17:06
quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
Master of the Fallen Fortress is a 1st level module designed for the Pathfinder RPG system and is also free to download as a pdf.
idilippy - sorry to interupt the thread, but Master of the Fallen Fortress is only a free download if you've already bought the $5 print version of the module. You can't just download the pdf like you an with Hallow's Last Hope, which I agree with you is an excellent module for a new group of players. |
| Neriandal Freit |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 00:39:54
quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
If you never have played before, why not start with something simpler than a full campaign, running a single module to get the feel for things? Pathfinder would be my choice for this, as they have a couple free modules available.
Hollow's Last Hope is a 1st level module designed for the Pathfinder Setting but using the 3.5e rules. It is a free pdf and includes pre-generated characters if needed.
Master of the Fallen Fortress is a 1st level module designed for the Pathfinder RPG system and is also free to download as a pdf.
Either of these modules could easily be adapted for the Realms as well if you'd rather use the Forgotten Realms setting than the Golarion setting of Pathfinder, and could be a jumping off point for a campaign. More importantly, DMing either of these will give you an idea for the difficulty involved in being a DM while giving you encounters and an adventure to back you up on. From here you can design your own campaign and adventures if you like, or pick up other modules if you prefer running published adventures, whatever you prefer.
In any case, good luck and welcome to DMing! It's a bit of work, but very rewarding when it all comes together.
I can be an outrageous story teller, so becoming a DM is but another facet of that I feel. It's really gripping and understanding the whole DM'ing part that I feel might be a challenge that I yet have my tools for.
I'm being informed to go and get the Pathfinder DM / Monster Manual guide so far.. does anyone know of any good places for additional Pathfinder goodies? I know where to seek my Faerun aspects to throw into the world of Golarion :) |
| idilippy |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 00:28:33
If you never have played before, why not start with something simpler than a full campaign, running a single module to get the feel for things? Pathfinder would be my choice for this, as they have a couple free modules available.
Hollow's Last Hope is a 1st level module designed for the Pathfinder Setting but using the 3.5e rules. It is a free pdf and includes pre-generated characters if needed.
Master of the Fallen Fortress is a 1st level module designed for the Pathfinder RPG system and is also free to download as a pdf.
Either of these modules could easily be adapted for the Realms as well if you'd rather use the Forgotten Realms setting than the Golarion setting of Pathfinder, and could be a jumping off point for a campaign. More importantly, DMing either of these will give you an idea for the difficulty involved in being a DM while giving you encounters and an adventure to back you up on. From here you can design your own campaign and adventures if you like, or pick up other modules if you prefer running published adventures, whatever you prefer.
In any case, good luck and welcome to DMing! It's a bit of work, but very rewarding when it all comes together. |
| Therise |
Posted - 21 Oct 2011 : 23:48:46
Sounds like fun!
Pathfinder is indeed a strong choice, although I can't tell you much about its world setting: Golarion. I will say, going with Golarion has the added benefit of being a new setting for everyone in your group.
The 4th Edition Realms was pretty much beaten with a stupid stick, so I'd fall back to a 3.5E version or earlier of the Realms... and the 3.5E Realms would also fit perfectly with the Pathfinder rules if you're using those.
Have fun in your new campaign, whatever you choose!
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