| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 12 Apr 2011 : 17:11:06
Ok so I just read about 20 pages of the thread over on WotC boards titled HEROES OF SHADOW REVIEWS, and all the posters are doing is bitchin' back and forth in a 4E vs Essentials (Essentials is 4.5 vs no its not) and almost nothing about this book (I can't post there so I got tired of lurking through all that crap).
Anyways, I bought this book the other day and like it. I would like to discuss this with some people over here (if any of you have looked at it) in a civil way.
Personally, I like the Shade race. My brother is running a campaign (currently on hold) and one guy plans on playing a Shadar-kai, and I have a Human netherese Swordmage (working towards the Umbriri paragon path), and the Shade race is tempting as a story arc to have my character become (he is going to be on an expedition in Chult representing Netheril).
Vampire as a class looks meh (something to attract the Twilight fangirls maybe lol). Otherwise, Necromancy and Nethermancy as mage/wizard schools. Sweet!!  |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Diffan |
Posted - 04 Jul 2011 : 12:57:25
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Yeah the char_op forum has the guide to Blackguards up already...didn't notice any other ones yet though.
The Vampire Guide is pretty funny, though it takes about 30 or so pages to actually get to some builds and ideas and not just endless Vamp-bashing.
The Binder....well I think there is a build for that one too though I think it's rather small considering it's not a greatly designed class (power-wise) so I don't think your going to see too much material on it IMO.
And the Blackguard is pretty damn awesome. And a human Blackguard is even better for the extra At-Will: Adent Strike, FTW! |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 12:22:47
Yeah the char_op forum has the guide to Blackguards up already...didn't notice any other ones yet though. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 04:30:52
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Well...Revenant was also originally DDi and ended up in the book...
True, and strangely I'm ok with that lol? But I'm going through the book now, as my buddy bought it the other day and I'm intrigued by the Blackguard and also the Vampire. While the Vampire is sorta hindered by the lack of Healing Surges, they really make up for it and I can see a lot of adaptability with this class. I also like the fact that it is a class and not a race (or sub-race) in any way. The best part is, if you don't want to go Full-Vampire, there is the Vryloka race which are tainted humans with vampiric tendencies. This race has a lot of playability with the +2 Charisma, +2 Strength or +2 Charisma, +2 Dexterity (*cough*Blackguard*cough*).
Also, what I find really amusing is that the class options are pretty much Essential-esque in their approach and with fixed abilities at certain levels but have a full-range of Paragon Paths that don't really fold into the Essentials theme which gives me hope that not everything PC related with be done in the Essential style.
The Shadow Feats are situational at best, but I'm sure the Char_Ops boards could do something with them. I'm liking the idea of a Shadowy Blackguard more and more as I read through the book.
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| Alisttair |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 15:48:59
Well...Revenant was also originally DDi and ended up in the book... |
| Diffan |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 13:46:54
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Wasn't the Assassin from DDi a class that put some kind of magic thing on a creature, stacking them until he could trigger them all for a d6 each of damage or something along with an attack, along with other powers built towards original 4E design?
Some what accurate. DDi released two assassin classes, the first was modeled after the normal classes released at the time like those in the PHB, PH2, PH3, etc... This class had powers that allowed for turning insubstantial, shadow jumping, etc.. And it's Striker-ish powers were to place Shrouds on a target which you could release to deal d6 damage.
They then released an Essential version of the Assassin called the Executioner (which is like the Knight, Slayer, Theif, Mage, etc..) and this class had less "shadowy" powers and more down-to-earth approach of poisoning people. They allowed an Executioner to make Poisons and gave them something called Weapon Finesse which adds extra damage. They also receive some sort of extra damage mechanic that deals xd6 damage 1/encounter.
The second version is what they re-published in the Heroes of Shadow book but with no additional conten (possibly some added feats?) and that sorta makes me mad as this was supposed to be exclusing to DDi users. I understand why they did it, but at least give us some additional content like a 3rd or 4th guild with Guild specific weapons. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 12:13:33
quote:
Originally posted by Diffanquote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Personally the Assassin looks fun with a choice of poisons you can make (initially you can make one per day, with more possible as you level up as well as access to more powerful recipes).
I was sorta disappointed that they just re-printed the Essassin (Essential-version of the Assassin from DDi) instead of making new and interesting features for the class. Could've at least thrown in another Guild style or something to appease us DDi users. But the class is really interesting and I have a player in my group playing one now. He's a Half-elf so he's been spamming Twin-Strike with Poison weapons. It's rather entertaining.
Wasn't the Assassin from DDi a class that put some kind of magic thing on a creature, stacking them until he could trigger them all for a d6 each of damage or something along with an attack, along with other powers built towards original 4E design? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 17 Apr 2011 : 21:31:41
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
The Vampire Class is different because they only have 2 healing surges (but with their powers they can heal beyond this). It's more like essentials in that it has less options (some levels you have a choice between two powers but usually you get what they give you).
Typical. While I really like what Essentials have done with re-flavoring and re-vamping ( pun intended) of the 4E model, I really hope that's not how it's going to be for the forseeable future. I really like the fact that specific classes get loads of different powers/spells/evocations/etc.... but I can see why Essentials takes a more 'focused' look at specific areas. Ah well, that why Homebrew is always the best option!
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Personally the Assassin looks fun with a choice of poisons you can make (initially you can make one per day, with more possible as you level up as well as access to more powerful recipes).
I was sorta disappointed that they just re-printed the Essassin (Essential-version of the Assassin from DDi) instead of making new and interesting features for the class. Could've at least thrown in another Guild style or something to appease us DDi users. But the class is really interesting and I have a player in my group playing one now. He's a Half-elf so he's been spamming Twin-Strike with Poison weapons. It's rather entertaining.
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Races, there is the Vyshanti (sp?) which is a vampiric bloodline. At first it sounds strange, especially since there is a Vampire class in the book, but they actually aren't generally vampires. Too hard to explain without the book at the moment. The other race is the Revenant (previously released through Dragon). For all three races, they have advice on how to "change" your race (how and why).
Hmm..not really sure why you'd want to but I can understand why you'd want further details on a Revanent Dwarf as opposed to a Revanent Eladrin or something. Giving options, ideas, and reference points make it easier to distinguish (RP-wise) your character from another.
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Shades stats, I think it's +2 charisma and a +2 int OR dex I think...other than that, I remember the Race power is good, being able to Hide I think with concealment and being able to Hide using an ally as cover (which you normally can't use as a source of cover to do a Stealth check). Also access to some Shadowy based powers at certain levels which you can take in lieu of your class Utility powers (same case with the other races).
I heard the power was dismally horrible in that you can hide and use allies shadows for cover but this is a Standard Action or some such and thus completly worthless in combat. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel EVERY race should have a combative friendly Racial Power just that the application is somewhat limited when skills and Utility powers do the same job but better. I think limiting it to a Move Action might suffice and bring it in-line with other Racial Powers. I also heard that it was an At-Will, and that was a bring reason why Standard Action was placed on it. Still, Instead of moving, you Hide and BAM Sneak Attack to the bad guy's face  .
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
The feat selection I find is a little too limited, but what they have there I like and might be able to make good use out of a few of them. Also would have been nice to see a few Shadow/Nethermancy/Necromancy based rituals put in the book (or are those coming with the Shadowfell book??).
Overall, good book.
Not too sure, but I heard a rumor that Rituals were being obsolete in futre books since we haven't really seen any since the Power books came out last year and Essentials didn't have any of them at all. I hope there are, as I feel Rituals can play a BIG part of the game and when used in good situations, often provide better benefits than Daily/Utility powers. Like Knock for example, I hear a lot of B*ching that it's stupid as you want to get into a room quick and now that Knock is a 10min ritual, it's useless. But I beg to differ. If you REALLY want in that room quick, then make a Thivery check and hope you make it. If you don't have someone who's trained in Thievery, then you'll have to bust it down, which is also fast but very noisy. If you want it down quietly and you're willing to wait, this ritual allows you to do that. Simple. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 12:07:05
I don't have the book with me at the moment, so I'm going off memory here.
The Vampire Class is different because they only have 2 healing surges (but with their powers they can heal beyond this). It's more like essentials in that it has less options (some levels you have a choice between two powers but usually you get what they give you).
Personally the Assassin looks fun with a choice of poisons you can make (initially you can make one per day, with more possible as you level up as well as access to more powerful recipes).
I too much enjoy how Disrupt Undead is for Wizards/Mages (an at-will cantrip) - and I drooled over Finger of Death.
Races, there is the Vyshanti (sp?) which is a vampiric bloodline. At first it sounds strange, especially since there is a Vampire class in the book, but they actually aren't generally vampires. Too hard to explain without the book at the moment. The other race is the Revenant (previously released through Dragon). For all three races, they have advice on how to "change" your race (how and why).
Shades stats, I think it's +2 charisma and a +2 int OR dex I think...other than that, I remember the Race power is good, being able to Hide I think with concealment and being able to Hide using an ally as cover (which you normally can't use as a source of cover to do a Stealth check). Also access to some Shadowy based powers at certain levels which you can take in lieu of your class Utility powers (same case with the other races).
The feat selection I find is a little too limited, but what they have there I like and might be able to make good use out of a few of them. Also would have been nice to see a few Shadow/Nethermancy/Necromancy based rituals put in the book (or are those coming with the Shadowfell book??).
Overall, good book. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 00:07:37
I had wondered how the Vampire class looked? In the preview, it seemed interesting but had the Essential "feel" of a whole level progression write-up and chart but they've been doing the same thing with other classes (ie. Marshal write-up that was just the Errated version of the Warlord  ). So is it more Essential or just like other classes and very Power based?
As for the other classes, I'm very excited to see the Blackguard (yay, one that doesn't necessarily HAVE to be an evil mook). As well, the Necromancer and Nethermancer both look exciting as does some of their ideas such as the revision of Disrupt Undead (which I just love) and the spell Finger of Death which is just straight up STRONG!!
Also, what other races were offered besides the Shade? And if you don't mind me asking, what's the Shades stats?? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 12 Apr 2011 : 23:58:38
Alisttair I've been looking forward to this product even before the Essential line was released like 6 months ago, when I was under the strong impression that the Hexblade would be featured in this supplement. And even though from the Previews released in the DDI articles last month it "seemed" to be Essential based, the Vampire class really didn't.
Having not purchased this product, yet, I have a strong feeling I'll be enjoying this book very much. And I've made my stance known on the rather stupid debate about 4E vs. Essentials so there's very little reason to re-hash that whole argument (4.5 bah!!). But anyways, what's the Vampire class like??! I had mixed feelings on this class and even the preview was vague as to what it actually did. Is it designed with flavorful powers and the like of pre-Essential mechanics or is it more limited to it's power selection like the now-prevalent Essential classes.
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| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 12 Apr 2011 : 20:39:07
He bears a passing resemblance to Arthas, who is one of the main nasties of WoW and a fallen paladin. Arthas also resembles most other unpleasant men who wear heavy armor and weild magical swords in a ganaric fantasy fashion, so I'd not likely poo myself with surprise to discover that this is just more silliness inspired by the (not unmerrited) '4e = WoW' meme.
As for the book, I've not had a look at it yet, but I intend to have a damn good thumb through it in the next couple of days, so I'll try and give you some thoughts on it then.
EDIT: ok, it's more than a passing resemblance to Arthas. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 12 Apr 2011 : 18:47:53
Thanks for the link Hawkins. Some parts of the Critical Hits review of this product were quoted in the "4E vs Essentials" edition war on the Wizards forums, but now that I read the whole review, people there obviously only took snippets from it and made uneducated conclusions based on very small parts of the review.
Anyways, I hear the Blackguard on the cover (who also appears in two more images within the book) resembles a certain Deathknight in WoW (never played WoW so I don't know - my brother and a friend told me this). Looking to draw in fans from a certain source still (which makes sense from a business standpoint). Draw their attention immediately to the cover. Speaking of the Blackguard class (Paladin sub-class), looks well done. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 12 Apr 2011 : 18:01:07
I am not a 4e consumer, so I know nothing about the product you are talking about, but HERE is a review of it on the Critical Hits blog. |
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