| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 17:39:14
Got the book today and am reading it off and on. Finished Avengers and working on Cleric. |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| scererar |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 05:09:08
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
So is it any good. I keep wanting to get it, but I also want to get the Eberron Adventure with it. I cant seem to find both at the same place. Preferably at a place where I can get a discount!
I have it, like it, and plan on using it. However, I found Martial power to be more useful to me. I dig playing rogues and rangers though  |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 15:37:21
I think that they really make a good move to improve the paladinīs mark. It becomes very more balanced with the other defenders, now.
And the Avenger continues as my class of choice. Hmmm, an Avenger of Assuran (Hoar) with a lance will be very interesting. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 12:26:57
So is it any good. I keep wanting to get it, but I also want to get the Eberron Adventure with it. I cant seem to find both at the same place. Preferably at a place where I can get a discount! |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 01 Aug 2009 : 12:40:59
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Comparing the Chosen (a set of overpowered NPCS) to an Epic Destiny for regular characters and then calling them the same thing is, well, absurd.
I think it depends on how you run your games, i.e. the role of the "protagonists"; if the game is all about the PCs and nothing else, then it probably feels absurd. |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 00:14:39
Saw on the August calendar that FR (and Eberron) deity domains will be in Dragon article currently scheduled for the 28th!
My main character is an Invoker of Amaunator, so I'm pretty sure the Sun domain feats he's already taken are going to be "retro-legal." ;) |
| malchor7 |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 23:19:30
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
You're right. Avatars are much more powerful than Chosen. And now regular PCs can have that kind of power... That is utterly absurd. That's just as absurd that the official schtick of "these characters were too powerful and unbalancing, but it's not at all unbalancing for you to have more power than anything short of a deity!"
The parade of absurdities continues!
I think there's a misunderstanding as to the design philosophy here.
To WotC, the "uber-NPCs" were over-powered and unbalancing, not the PCs. They decided (rightly or wrongly, as you decide) that having a bunch of superlatively powerful NPCs who could swoop-in-and-do-all-the-cool-stuff/save-you-when-you-messed-up/could-never-ever-be-killed-by-the-players was getting in the way of the campaign.
In this edition, they have made a concerted effort to put that power in the hands of the players. Only PCs can get these particular powers--the PCs are the ones who are supposed to be doing the big, epic, cool things.
So basically, the PCs are supposed to be *the heroes* of your Realms campaign. If the gods are going to have chosen, they're going to have the PCs become their chosen, not NPCs. If someone's going to become a demigod, it's going to be a PC, not an NPC.
Personally, I don't feel the uber-NPCs were getting in the way, so I think this was an unnecessary fix. But I see why they did it, and it is FAR from absurd.
(So let's get back to talking about the book!)
|
| Arivia |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 21:40:29
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Comparing the Chosen (a set of overpowered NPCS) to an Epic Destiny for regular characters and then calling them the same thing is, well, absurd.
You're right. Avatars are much more powerful than Chosen. And now regular PCs can have that kind of power... That is utterly absurd. That's just as absurd that the official schtick of "these characters were too powerful and unbalancing, but it's not at all unbalancing for you to have more power than anything short of a deity!"
The parade of absurdities continues!
The Avatar of Death preview is fairly explicit about the relationship of the Avatar epic destinies, describing them as mortal shells and vessels for the deity. In 3e terms, these are the rank 0 or 1 shards that a deity could create (I can't remember exactly their names right now, and I don't have much of an interest in poking around for it.) In Realms terms, these avatars are comparable to the Chosen and not on the same levels as deific avatars. |
| Tasker Daze |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 21:04:44
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Comparing the Chosen (a set of overpowered NPCS) to an Epic Destiny for regular characters and then calling them the same thing is, well, absurd.
You're right. Avatars are much more powerful than Chosen. And now regular PCs can have that kind of power... That is utterly absurd. That's just as absurd that the official schtick of "these characters were too powerful and unbalancing, but it's not at all unbalancing for you to have more power than anything short of a deity!"
The parade of absurdities continues! |
| Mr_Miscellany |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 20:40:14
Comparing the Chosen (a set of overpowered NPCS) to an Epic Destiny for regular characters and then calling them the same thing is, well, absurd.
:::::::::::::::::::
So, Foxhelm, anything else of worthy note or interest in the book?
|
| Tasker Daze |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 13:41:04
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
So in the Forgotten Realms, Chosen were a problem. And this was because they were somewhere between avatars and mortals.
Now they have rules for becoming an avatar... And since it's Core, you can do it in the Realms.
Chosen NPCs were a problem, but avatar PCs are perfectly acceptable. 
Does this make anyone else's brain hurt?
Chosen is a Epic Destiny in Both Forgotten Realms Player Guide (I believe) and in Divine Power (Chosen for Core deities).
Eh, same difference. What was supposedly a problem is now an option. |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 13:05:17
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
So in the Forgotten Realms, Chosen were a problem. And this was because they were somewhere between avatars and mortals.
Now they have rules for becoming an avatar... And since it's Core, you can do it in the Realms.
Chosen NPCs were a problem, but avatar PCs are perfectly acceptable.
Does this make anyone else's brain hurt?
Chosen is a Epic Destiny in Both Forgotten Realms Player Guide (I believe) and in Divine Power (Chosen for Core deities). |
| Arivia |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 05:48:02
Epic destinies are specifically designed to remove PCs from play by level 30; A 4e Chosen or Avatar won't be around to police a post-Spellplague Realms.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's how it works. |
| Tasker Daze |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 05:07:00
So in the Forgotten Realms, Chosen were a problem. And this was because they were somewhere between avatars and mortals.
Now they have rules for becoming an avatar... And since it's Core, you can do it in the Realms.
Chosen NPCs were a problem, but avatar PCs are perfectly acceptable.
Does this make anyone else's brain hurt? |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 02:23:58
Actually might be a few things useful for the realms, like the Avatar Epic Destiny where you become a living vessel for not only your god but their portfolio.
Avatars used:
Death (Kel), Freedom (Lliira), Hope (Lathander if e still exists), Justice (Tyr, Torm), Life (Silvanus, Chauntea), Storms (Gruumish/Talos), War (Tempus, Red Knight, Gargos);
All Avatars based on the Domains.
I am still reading, and yet trying to answer questions. I'll have to look over it again for realms specific
Update: Avatar are like Proxies, but more portfolio based then the previous Planescape versions. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 00:59:45
I'm actually a little tempted by this source. One of my PCs at the moment is having problems drumming up ideas for his next divine-worshipping character. And he is a fan of 4e, so it might be worth taking a look at the tome.
|
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 18:15:57
Lucky you! I can't wait to see it! |
