| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 06:24:53
Hey guys. The guy that wrote this d20 book mentioned this at Paizo's site, so I thought that I'd mention it here as well. I've moved fairly well beyond jumping on every d20 product that comes out, given that a lot of companies did a lot of shoddy work, but I have to say this one looks interesting.
Over at Paizo the author says that he can't directly say that this is compatible with ToM binders, but he also says that the systems are "remarkably similar" in implementation. If you look at the site at the samples, its pretty apparent that it works essentially the same way as the binders from the Tome of Magic.
He actually contacted WOTC when he was working on this to make sure he was okay, and he got the go ahead to do this as long as he didn't refer to the bound spirits as vestiges or directly reference binders or material from the Tome of Magic.
Anyway, here is the link to the site if you are interested in checking it out:
http://www.pactmagic.com/home.htm |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 30 Nov 2008 : 16:52:02
quote:
I'll get a copy of the book when I can.
Santa (a mindflayer in disguise) is here...
1-day SALE November 30th (Sunday) on select pact magic-related books:
www.pactmagic.com/order.htm
Includes free shipping. Also, free samples here:
www.pactmagic.com/download.htm |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 00:57:17
Ancient Spirits, Jamallo Kreen, sorry I never responded. For some reason I haven't been getting notes at my e-mail telling me that people have been responding to the threads I've been suscribing to!
But thanks for the kind words on the voudoun/Pact Magic idea. I do have a few books on the subject myself, mostly covering Santeria with some side discussions of faiths with very aggressive deities like Palo Mayombe or Abakua, not to mention Haitian loas like Baron Kriminal, Baron Zombi, and the impressively named Langlessoups de Basin-Sang. I'd love to get an interpretation of the last one beyond [Something] Bucket-of-Blood.
I'll get a copy of the book when I can; it sounds like Paizo is doing everything they can to pick up the ball that WoTC has dropped. |
| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 26 May 2008 : 18:58:42
Place your vote!
A contest for submissions from pact magic fans has been going on, here:
http://pactmagic.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0
There are a bunch of entries. They'll be included in an upcoming supplement called Villains of Pact and the top 5 will be illustrated.
If you like pact magic and want more material for your binder character, you'll find stuff here.
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 22:44:29
The binder contest continues!
Have you submitted your creative endeavor (spirit, anima, vestige, demon) to win a spot in the upcoming Villains of Pact Magic?
So far you all have posted 10 wonderful legends with mechanics to boot for binder characters.
There are only TWO weeks left. You can have your name in print and a nice reward after a few hours of creative play this weekend (or next!)
To current submissions, post your own, or just roam around the pact magic site, visit:
Contest board here!
Note: You can find a PDF of Secrets of Pact Magic here at the Paizo store.
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 15 Apr 2008 : 06:03:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Firstly, thanks for doing more with Pact magic. I'd love to know how to set up my own vestiges along the lines of Vodoun deities. (I.e., Erzulie, Baron Samedi, Damballah, etc.)
Ardashir and others, the contest is now on!
Submit a spirit (AKA vestige, anima) of your own design. Gather votes. See your name and creativity in print in the upcoming softcover supplement, Villains of Pact Magic.
For more info: http://pactmagic.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0
By the way, the contest's first submission is up...
Moy, The Uncaring Queen... at
http://pactmagic.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.0
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 08:43:30
The contest is on!
http://pactmagic.com/forum/index.php?topic=28.0
Submit your spirit / vestige / anima. Win votes. Get yourself in print. :-) |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 27 Mar 2008 : 10:24:21
You may want to look at Mongoose's Faith and Fervor, written by Vincent Darlage for the Conan RPG game: it has one small chapter on shamanism in the Black Kingdoms, including a full page of loas, and a shorter list for Zembabwei (?) om a separate chapter.
The woman who created "The New Orleans Voodoo Tarot" used to be quite active on the Internet before it became the Wworld Wide Web. I t might be worth your while to track her down. Robart tallant's Voodoo in New Orleans also has descriptions of how one comes to know if favorable spirits are present or not.
Oh! You may also want to look at Nyambe, from Atlas Games. They have a book called Dire Spirits which may be of interest to you. I haven't seen it, but judging by the title, it sounds promising.
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 26 Mar 2008 : 17:42:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Firstly, thanks for doing more with Pact magic. I'd love to know how to set up my own vestiges along the lines of Vodoun deities. (I.e., Erzulie, Baron Samedi, Damballah, etc.)
I didn't investigate African Animism or Caribbean voodoo for Secrets of Pact Magic, which in retrospect is surprising since I lived in Barbados! Here are some comments, which might benefit readers not familiar with this topic.
In stating the Voudoun spirits, there are a couple considerations:
-- The spirits are mostly evolved from mortal ancestors.
-- The spirits develop over a journey - from death, to the underworld, to an active role in the lives of the spirit's descendants (family, extended family and/or tribe?), to a final stage of either becoming a god or absorption into the power of the existing gods.
-- Whether the spirit is peaceful or aggressive (NOT the same as good or evil) stems in part from its life and the environment it came from. That is, spirits born of people in Haiti are more aggressive than many African spirits, which were born in more peaceful times (relatively speaking).
-- There seem to be many spirits, due to varied names, but there are 18 or so as far as I can find.
-- A number of spirits are matched with Christian figures (Mary, St. Patrick, etc)
This is what I'm familiar with. With some investigation (Wikipedia, White Wolf, other sources?) one could probably stat out the spirits. They could be handled in the usual manner (maybe 2 of each level 1st through 9th, for 18 total) or they could be anima spirits (each one can be bound at a level 1st through 9th). I'm not sure there is a logical argument to say standard or anima; I suspect it would depend on the spirits' attributed abilities and what is easier for an author to craft and balance.
One thing I like about the voodoo approach is the use of ceremonial music and rites that include blood and such. And there are "mundane divinations" such as touching a person with certain ingredients to determine which spirit s/he has bound (or if not possessed at all).
The warbinder can better lend his supernatural abilities to allies when he makes a successful Perform check, but Voudoun magic might offer a Ecstatic Ritual option that improves the binding check when 10 minutes are spent with intense music, etc. :-)
The mundane divinations would be a nice add to all of the spirits, perhaps organized by constellation. That is, spirits of the ghoul constellation react to sunlight, garlic, mirrors, etc -- borrowed from various myths. In contrast, those of the fiend constellation react to dove feathers, holy water, rose water, happy laughter of children, etc. (OK, maybe that's a little cheesy).
I will be announcing a contest for spirits. Those with the winning spirits (voted on by the community) will be included in a supplement to Secrets of Pact Magic. With Paizo now supporting 3.5 (or something similar), I feel more confident to go ahead with such a project. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 25 Mar 2008 : 22:49:55
quote:
Originally posted by AncientSpirits
A little gnome told me some chat is afoot re Secrets of Pact Magic. I'm the author. 
Have some ideas you'd like to see illustrated and in print? I'm putting together a follow-up book of adventure sites, and you will find a new pact to seal, or two, in the upcoming quarterly newsletter. Submission guidelines here:
http://www.pactmagic.com/submit.htm
I am not affiliated in any way with Wizards of the Coast. Http://www.pactmagic.com/home.htm discusses the historical roots of pact magic in the public domain.
By the way, if you're heading to Strategicon next week (in Los Angeles), I'll be running a pact magic adventure for two afternoons and hosting a raffle for a free copy or two of the book.
Firstly, thanks for doing more with Pact magic. I'd love to know how to set up my own vestiges along the lines of Vodoun deities. (I.e., Erzulie, Baron Samedi, Damballah, etc.)
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 15:51:46
Hi all! Thanks for your supportive comments. For those of you still wondering whether to go Secrets of Magic Magic... you can now download a PDF version from the Paizo store. :-)
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/radianceHouse
If you have a chance to place your review on Amazon or on the Paizo store, the ancient spirits will be most appreciative. :-) |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 13:49:32
Just received my copy. One thing I have to say just now, aside from the sheer volume of the thing, is this: bloody fast delivery time! Outstanding!!!
Will say more in a bit...after I read a little |
| Razz |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 02:08:04
quote:
Originally posted by AncientSpirits
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
I, too, have the book and I have to say outstanding work.
He managed to create a supplement to Tome of Magic without breaking OGL rules. Just replace the word spirits with vestige, and any other term, and you have yourself an enhancement book for the Binder class. Awesome!
I like how many of the rules are similar, yet tack on additions to make it more unique and interesting (like the Capstone mechanic). I can combine this with my Tome of Magic book for some binding fun. I wish more publishers did this, really. There're so many books I would've loved to have seen explored more, like Tome of Battle, Truenamers, Skill Tricks, and Shadow Magic.
My only qualm is I wish the spirits stayed closer to the Tome of Magic vestiges for power level. It goes from 1st to 9th instead of 1st to 8th. Though, maybe if I simply drop all the 9ths into 8th-level vestiges, it would work out fine.
Razz, glad you like it.
I wanted to make the spirits more in line with spell levels, so they go up to 9th level. I'm not sure why ToM does 8 levels -- maybe for some symbolic significance or because the author ran out of space?!?
Also, by working with 9 levels rather than 8, I can claim (if necessary) that as a purely technical matter, the two systems are different and incompatible. A 4th level spirit in SoPM is 4th out of 9 levels, not 4th out of 8 levels as in ToM, yet both systems spread the spirits over 20 levels, so it looks as if the power progression is slightly different. ;-) What a legalistic trick that is!
One way to adapt the spirit levels is to allow the ToM binder to gain access to 9th-level vestiges at 19th (or even 20th) level. Otherwise, the ToM binder has his own special abilities that, I suspect, make it OK that his access to vestiges comes a little slower at times than the SoPM spirit binder's spirits do. But that's a GM call. Alas, the d20 license prevents me from officially saying much more than this!
That is true, I can just tweak the Binder a little.
Doing anymore 3.5e books like this on other aspects of 3rd Edition I hope?  |
| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 06 Mar 2008 : 04:42:51
And here is his seal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tsr_logo_GK.png
:-) |
| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 06 Mar 2008 : 04:42:10
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I would amend your description somewhat (with apologies to Rich Burlew):
Level 10, Crown constellation
Manifestation: Mists arise from the pact seal, swirl, and part to reveal a stone wall with what appears to be a grotesquely-carved magic mouth in the form of a gaping demon with curling horns. On a successful Listen check (DC 10), you hear a faint susurrus, as of the hoarse rattling of the voices of many dead adventurers. Make a Will saving throw (DC40) to not run away in abject terror. If you failed your Will saving throw or if you carefully lean close to the magic mouth to hear the whispers, you and everything you are carryig cease to exist with no saving throw allowed.
(Anyone who didn't get that joke probably shouldn't know what it means -- it is a reference to one of the most fiendish traps ever created for any version of D&D -- pure DM knowledge ... and fiendishly delicious!)
Love it! And yes, Gary should be an epic spirit. Those who bind him can conjure dragons and dungeons! |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 22:53:30
I would amend your description somewhat (with apologies to Rich Burlew):
Level 10, Crown constellation
Manifestation: Mists arise from the pact seal, swirl, and part to reveal a stone wall with what appears to be a grotesquely-carved magic mouth in the form of a gaping demon with curling horns. On a successful Listen check (DC 10), you hear a faint susurrus, as of the hoarse rattling of the voices of many dead adventurers. Make a Will saving throw (DC40) to not run away in abject terror. If you failed your Will saving throw or if you carefully lean close to the magic mouth to hear the whispers, you and everything you are carryig cease to exist with no saving throw allowed.
(Anyone who didn't get that joke probably shouldn't know what it means -- it is a reference to one of the most fiendish traps ever created for any version of D&D -- pure DM knowledge ... and fiendishly delicious!)
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 04 Mar 2008 : 22:26:45
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Is it possible to bind the spirit of E. Gary Gygax to oneself and severely pummel Hasbro executives at a distance?
You read my mind!
Egg, the First Dungeon Master:
Level 4, Crown constellation
Legend: Like I need to write this!
Ceremony: Open a scroll or similar parchment with a map inscribed upon it. Repeatedly throw six polyhedral dice.
Manifestation: Mists arise from the pact seal, swirl, and part to reveal a rank dungeon hallway. It may be a ruined monastery, or perhaps a temple. At the hall's end, you spy a great, fiendish statue with rubies for eyes. Before you can take in more, a red dragon lumbers from behind and breaths searing fire upon you. You scream in agony as you die. You awaken back to reality, as if resurrected from death.
Granted abilities
-- Summon Monster: You can use summon monster IV at will as a full round action. As the spell, the monster heeds your bidding and remains for 1 round per level. You can only maintain one summoned creature at a time, and must wait for the first one to be killed or dismissed before summoning another.
-- Awesome Legacy: ... your turn...
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 04 Mar 2008 : 22:09:47
Is it possible to bind the spirit of E. Gary Gygax to oneself and severely pummel Hasbro executives at a distance?
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 04 Mar 2008 : 21:47:29
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
I, too, have the book and I have to say outstanding work.
He managed to create a supplement to Tome of Magic without breaking OGL rules. Just replace the word spirits with vestige, and any other term, and you have yourself an enhancement book for the Binder class. Awesome!
I like how many of the rules are similar, yet tack on additions to make it more unique and interesting (like the Capstone mechanic). I can combine this with my Tome of Magic book for some binding fun. I wish more publishers did this, really. There're so many books I would've loved to have seen explored more, like Tome of Battle, Truenamers, Skill Tricks, and Shadow Magic.
My only qualm is I wish the spirits stayed closer to the Tome of Magic vestiges for power level. It goes from 1st to 9th instead of 1st to 8th. Though, maybe if I simply drop all the 9ths into 8th-level vestiges, it would work out fine.
Razz, glad you like it.
I wanted to make the spirits more in line with spell levels, so they go up to 9th level. I'm not sure why ToM does 8 levels -- maybe for some symbolic significance or because the author ran out of space?!?
Also, by working with 9 levels rather than 8, I can claim (if necessary) that as a purely technical matter, the two systems are different and incompatible. A 4th level spirit in SoPM is 4th out of 9 levels, not 4th out of 8 levels as in ToM, yet both systems spread the spirits over 20 levels, so it looks as if the power progression is slightly different. ;-) What a legalistic trick that is!
One way to adapt the spirit levels is to allow the ToM binder to gain access to 9th-level vestiges at 19th (or even 20th) level. Otherwise, the ToM binder has his own special abilities that, I suspect, make it OK that his access to vestiges comes a little slower at times than the SoPM spirit binder's spirits do. But that's a GM call. Alas, the d20 license prevents me from officially saying much more than this! |
| Razz |
Posted - 04 Mar 2008 : 17:59:39
I, too, have the book and I have to say outstanding work.
He managed to create a supplement to Tome of Magic without breaking OGL rules. Just replace the word spirits with vestige, and any other term, and you have yourself an enhancement book for the Binder class. Awesome!
I like how many of the rules are similar, yet tack on additions to make it more unique and interesting (like the Capstone mechanic). I can combine this with my Tome of Magic book for some binding fun. I wish more publishers did this, really. There're so many books I would've loved to have seen explored more, like Tome of Battle, Truenamers, Skill Tricks, and Shadow Magic.
My only qualm is I wish the spirits stayed closer to the Tome of Magic vestiges for power level. It goes from 1st to 9th instead of 1st to 8th. Though, maybe if I simply drop all the 9ths into 8th-level vestiges, it would work out fine. |
| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 17 Feb 2008 : 19:15:13
Thanks for the extensive information. My copy should be coming soon.  |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 17 Feb 2008 : 14:44:50
quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
Jamallo. Could you comment on the binding of the book?
Other than that, great review, not far from what I expected but it gives me the go ahead to pick up this particular tome when I get the money.
I was worried when I opened the book at the table of contents and saw that two quires hadn't been bound together perfectly -- that's usually a really bad sign. However, the whole thing is holding together quite well. I'd say that it's better-bound than many of the White Wolf Scarred Lands books (*sigh* -- I miss 'em!), but perhaps not as well-bound as the FRCS, which seems able to pack a map, errata sheets, character sheets, book marks, etc. within its covers without any sign that the whole book will explode.
The Radiance House binder obviously cared about this product. If you have a lot of books from Mongoose Publishing, you may understand what I mean -- some of them seem slapped together and others look as though the printer was determined to make a book which gave fair value for money. Secrets of Pact Magic seems to fall into the latter category -- you can see where your money went when you first notice the slightly eerie reflection of light off of the whatever-it-is kind of paper -- this was no slap-dash job. Someone planned this book!
I don't have their other book (and obviously don't have the 4E version), so I can't speak of their quality, but I suspect that if sales meet the publisher's expectations, then future products will meet customer satisfaction, which is a whole lot more than I can say for some of the junk WotC has published in the last two or three years.
DO go their web site and check out the very extensive download samples, which all appear to have been lifted straight from the book. I recall seeing in one of them, for example, the list of the various types of spirits, and there were (sorry, no book at hand) about a dozen of them, ranging from simple ghosts, to not-quite-dead gods to things from somewhere else. Beats the heck out of the Wizards one-definition-fits-all "vestiges!"
Wandering off topic (it's 6:27 AM -- I've been working on this computer since yesterday!  ), I also recall that spirit binding isn't limited to individuals -- a token of a spirit may be placed where touching it activates its powers to everyone within a radius which depends on the strength of the spirit (its "level" in game mechanical terms), from thirty feet to ... well ... enough to cover a whole village. Goblin raid? Smack that rock and everyone within the radius might become +1/+1 in combat, or heal rapidly, or do many of the sorts of cool things we thought were possible only within mythals. The effect is relatively short-lived (three hours, for example), but Bob the Ascended Wombat does have other things to do than hang out with you, ya know, and besides -- what have you done for him lately, hmmm?
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 15 Feb 2008 : 19:51:16
Jamallo Kreen, thank you for your thoughts on the book. :-)
Regarding "duel blades" and "dual blades", The Crow lends itself to brooding swashbuckler type pact, and thus his binders are good at dueling with dual blades. That said, there IS a typo in the hardcopy on page 45. It's fixed in the PDF. It's what I get for monkeying with the text after the proofer combed through it.
Mazrim_Taim: I will let others give more objective responses about SoPM. In the meantime, you can find a "visual tour" (high resolution photographs of the book inside and out), here:
http://www.pactmagic.com/downloads/SoPM_Visual_Tour.zip
I felt a rugged book (strong spine, thick glossy pages) was a must since it is the kind of book that receives a lot of use at the table.
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| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 15 Feb 2008 : 17:13:51
Jamallo. Could you comment on the binding of the book?
Other than that, great review, not far from what I expected but it gives me the go ahead to pick up this particular tome when I get the money. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 15 Feb 2008 : 08:04:20
KnightErrantJR, I have to thank you for bringing up this book. I'm doing lead duty on a minor local crisis, so I have only been able to skim and scan a few parts, but I just have to share a few things:
1. There are TWO indices. TWO! One for general subjects and one for creatures. In a 335 page book which cost $40. Wizards won't even shell out a fraction of a cent to put even one index in a book half that thick for which they charge two-thirds the price.
2. There are some amusing interpretations of just how magic works. For example,, it is possible to smell out -- literally! -- books and other items connected with pact magic -- "Smell Spirit Lore (Su)" is a feature of one prestige class, and something similar is available as a feat). Sound stupid? Not if you have read your Lovecraft (or any genuine grimoires): "By their smell shall ye know them!"
3. There are dozens upon dozens of well-described spirits (sorry, no "vestiges" here, just us spirits!).
4. The Feats are not knock-offs of standard D&D magic feats, as 3E Tome of Magic had -- in all three parts.
5. I only had about an hour to spend on this book today, but in that hour, I found ... hold on to your curlers, girls! -- one typo! And it may not have even been a typo: "Duel Blades" occurs on page 135, and since "dual" and "duel" are homophones and the ability refers to using light (i.e. dueling) weapons, in both hands, it may have been more of a clever quip on the part of the author. (He is a university professor, after all.)
6. There are no margin pictures endlessly repeated, wasting trees and driving up the cost of the book.
7. Although there is no mention of what type of paper the book contains, and whether or not it's archival, it looks very nice.
8. Dario Nardi writes well.
9. Alas, what may be the coolest-sounding ability in the whole book -- "Apocalyptic Immunity -- isn't quite as powerful as one might hope. *sigh*
I'll give you a more detailed run-down sometime next week, but for now, know that this is most definitely NOT the sort of schlock Wizards of the Coast has been churning out endlessly for the past two years. (Which means Hasbro may buy out Radiance House and suppress the book just so their own stuff doesn't look so shoddy by comparison!.)
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 22:21:23
I just got a copy! I'm swamped with work this week, but I'll give you my opinions on the book as I manage to snatch a reading session here and there.
<insert smiling devil face emoticon>
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 23:52:13
I'm very much looking forward to reading this! The moreso when a player I'd "rewarded" with a level out of the 3E Tome of Magic told me that it was almost impossible for him to use the level unless he devoted his career entirely to the class. *sigh*
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| AncientSpirits |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 08:22:14
A little gnome told me some chat is afoot re Secrets of Pact Magic. I'm the author.
Have some ideas you'd like to see illustrated and in print? I'm putting together a follow-up book of adventure sites, and you will find a new pact to seal, or two, in the upcoming quarterly newsletter. Submission guidelines here:
http://www.pactmagic.com/submit.htm
I am not affiliated in any way with Wizards of the Coast. Http://www.pactmagic.com/home.htm discusses the historical roots of pact magic in the public domain.
By the way, if you're heading to Strategicon next week (in Los Angeles), I'll be running a pact magic adventure for two afternoons and hosting a raffle for a free copy or two of the book.
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 05:13:10
Scroll down on this page, and you should get your answer:
http://www.pactmagic.com/order.htm
For what its worth, it sounds like the binder's abilities are going to be merged into the 4th edition warlock. |
| Ranak |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 05:08:56
A vestige would be an ideal way to introduce Mystra or Tyr back into a 4ed game. Since the new game is moving toward spell-like powers, it should be easy to adapt the rules for Binders.
Does the author have any intent of updating this supplement for 4ed?
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I, too, am looking through the samples, and yes, they do look interesting.
I'm thinking of just asking my players to buy the combo package for me and ask them to not look into it in any detail. A certain Faerunian "vestige" was mentioned in the Dragon Magazine article on pact magic, and I have intended for years to make his/her continued existence part of a major story arc. I think this book may help with that. We shall see.
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| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 04:16:28
I, too, am looking through the samples, and yes, they do look interesting.
I'm thinking of just asking my players to buy the combo package for me and ask them to not look into it in any detail. A certain Faerunian "vestige" was mentioned in the Dragon Magazine article on pact magic, and I have intended for years to make his/her continued existence part of a major story arc. I think this book may help with that. We shall see.
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