| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 04:59:24
Ok, first impressions.
1) All the core 3E classes are mentioned and they've added Warlock and a new sword & sorcery type class. Wizards can't specialize, instead they're going with spell types, Ray spells (acid arrow & scorching ray) were used as an example of what they mean by types. They mention we might see Illusionist or Conjurer as it's own class later... not sure if I like this change.
2) Half elves, Half orcs, and Gnomes are notably missing from the races section. It seems like Warforge, Celestrals, and Drow will NOT be core, they're coming in later products according to this. There's a new dragon race and the fey race in there as Core, as is Tieling. I don't get the inclusion of Tieling without Aasimar.. the 4E Tieling look like Draeni from WoW.
It mentions the new Heroic, Paragon, Epic level system but doesn't give any solid information worth talking about, nor does the book actually give you anything you can play with. I suggest letting that friend you have that buys everything buy it and read his copy. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 03 Mar 2008 : 18:32:16
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
...as for the Eldarin, are we going to be able to play both types?
3.5 Monster Manual Eldarin are not 4e Eldarin at all. Basically, "high elves" are now called Eldarin - they are the magically adept elves (Moon and Sun Elves in our current FR parlance). Woodsy archer elves are just called "elves".
I wonder if Wizards' legal team has realized that "Eldarin" as a classification of fantasy elf is a pure Tolkienism.
What the hell I am going to do with my wild elf bard, I don't know. Probably continue to play him under 3.5 unless 4e bards somehow wind up closer to his concept. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Mar 2008 : 04:09:13
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
However, I do beleive then, that they should get rid of Sorcerers.
The reason Sorcerer exists, and it's a good reason, is that the PHB is mostly spells. A large number of those spells are all Wizard spells. Back when they were finalizing 3.0, they realized that it didn't make sense to have all that space dedicated to spells for just 1 character class. Hence, the Sorcerer.
I love the sorcerer. I don't think the creation of the class had anything to do with spell lists, either... The idea of not being limited by what you memorized today is a very good one. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Mar 2008 : 02:14:53
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I finally got to read this boo, and it brought up even more questions then I had before. the entry on dragonborn really confused me. First, killing off dieties is pathological with these people.
Huh?
quote:
second, did they actually kill off Tiamat?
Nope. She will be in 4E.
quote:
as for the Eldarin, are we going to be able to play both types?
What do you mean "both types"? If you're asking if people can be "elfy" eladrins and celestial eladrins in 4E, the answer is no--in 4E eladrins are just one type of elf-creature, and that's it--they aren't celestials anymore.
quote:
they've done away with Aasimars because it sounds like a word they appearantly don't use.
There are going to be Aasimars in 4E, they just won't be called aasimars, because yes, it sounds like "ass".
I recommend getting Worlds and Monsters if you thought Races and Classes was useful. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 01 Mar 2008 : 14:29:52
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
However, I do beleive then, that they should get rid of Sorcerers.
The reason Sorcerer exists, and it's a good reason, is that the PHB is mostly spells. A large number of those spells are all Wizard spells. Back when they were finalizing 3.0, they realized that it didn't make sense to have all that space dedicated to spells for just 1 character class. Hence, the Sorcerer. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 16:09:44
I finally got to read this boo, and it brought up even more questions then I had before. the entry on dragonborn really confused me. First, killing off dieties is pathological with these people. second, did they actually kill off Tiamat? as for the Eldarin, are we going to be able to play both types?they've done away with Aasimars because it sounds like a word they appearantly don't use. as for Warlocks being a base class, that I actually agree with. However, I do beleive then, that they should get rid of Sorcerers. |
| Venger |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 11:08:34
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Did I miss something and they released the new cover art.. because like 2 weeks ago Rich said the cover with Drizzt on it...
http://www.enworld.org/images/4e/p4e_frcs.jpg
...isn't the final cover, it's just placeholder art.
The logo can be accurate, even though the art is a placeholder. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 23:31:55
In part because most boycotts do not hold together long enough or are not wide spread enough. Sometimes of course boycotts are not well defined as well.
The boycott of Iran certain procucts and the former one against Iraq clearly not working even though the demand was fairly well defined, because the Nation community as a whole did not agree to it.
I am not sure there can even be a well defined goal for any boycott against WotC, different fans want different things and a common goal likely unlikely to be agreed to.
The only difference between a boycott and deciding not to buy on an individual base is a defined goal and letting the traget of boycott know the defined goal in hope there will be change in policy.
If 90 percent of current purchasers do not like 4th Edition (core or settings) and choose not to purchase on an individual basics WotC will not kbow why sales that disappeared. They could guess, perhaps do market reseach and so on.
OTOH the basic tone/sense of it is that the target sales are expected from new people to expand the game base. I am sure they expect to lose some existing fans, but expect the new blood will make up for it.
It does strike me as unlikely that entime existing would agree to a boycott of any kind that would concern WotC or Hasbro. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 23:09:23
I always get perplexed when people call for boycotts. I'm not planning on buying any 4th edition stuff, because it doesn't suit me. But if it works for someone else, so be it. All I would ask is that people buy products because they really want the product, and not because they hope that if they buy it, eventually WOTC will "fix" what they have already done. Other than that, buy what you want, but be sure you don't buy out of impulse or without thinking. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 21:59:55
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Except it'll never happen.
Well boycotts can work if it holds together long enough. However odds are low a sucessful boycott can be organizied and maintained long enough for WotC and/or their overlords recoginise a fix is needed.
The boycott would need to be at least one year long of a majority of fans of existing Realms, it also would need to be organizied and funded to some extent. A Boycott needs spokepeople and also at minimun a list of numbers participating. Also a list of expectaions that could be workable for WotC.
All in all unless there is far more outrage indeed it will not work. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 21:44:30
Except it'll never happen. |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 20:55:54
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Perhaps ED must re-think of continue publishing Forgotten Realms under the Margaret Weiss Productions, ltd (like Castlemourn) instead of Wizards of the coast (if he is able to do it)...
HE and WE must NOT let wizards of the coast ruin our beloved world!!!
As we've said before, Ed does not have that choice. WotC owns the Realms, so they can do with it as they please. His choices are to run with the changes or bail on the setting, and he's trying to run with the changes to mitigate the damage. Our choices are to buy 4E Realms products, or to leave them sitting on store shelves, gathering dust.
A call to arms is all well and good, but even a hundred guys with BB guns aren't a threat to a main battle tank.
So the sollution for us is to stop buying Forgotten realms Products(in the case that these are Harmful for our campaign setting) in order to stop Wizards DESTROYING FAERUN by publishing books for FR and let ED continue with a new publishing company... ... ... that is not a bad idea...at all....!!
|
| Kentinal |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 19:30:43
It still might be placeholder?
Or perhaps somebody changed mind?
*shrugs*
I am not worried about a cover, I am worried about what is between the cover. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 19:00:40
Did I miss something and they released the new cover art.. because like 2 weeks ago Rich said the cover with Drizzt on it...
http://www.enworld.org/images/4e/p4e_frcs.jpg
...isn't the final cover, it's just placeholder art.
|
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 16:07:43
Sigh...
3.X FR books looked fantastic though... but I see your point. |
| Venger |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 05:36:22
quote:
Well, as far as I can see it (take a look at the FRCG cover), the Realms logo is no more... The FRCG has "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover in bold letter, with the reference to FR as a subtitle, as an afterthought.
Forgotten Realms is written pretty big on the cover. Hardly an afterthought.
I wouldn't read anything negative into that, though. They're likely doing it that way so that new D&D players who see Realms books on the shelves know that they're D&D books. At a glance, 3E Realms books like like they're books for some other game, not D&D. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 03:11:33
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Perhaps ED must re-think of continue publishing Forgotten Realms under the Margaret Weiss Productions, ltd (like Castlemourn) instead of Wizards of the coast (if he is able to do it)...HE and WE must NOT let wizards of the coast ruin our beloved world!!!
As nice as that would be and I'm sure Margarent would absolutely love to publish it, Wizards & Hasbro own Forgotten Realms until they break the licensing agreement they have for it, and the only way they can break it is if they stop publishing it... which means they can't make money off it anymore.
Well, as far as I can see it (take a look at the FRCG cover), the Realms logo is no more... The FRCG has "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover in bold letter, with the reference to FR as a subtitle, as an afterthought.
I wonder why they keep publishing the Realms? if there's so much FR haters out there, wouldn't stopping Realms publication and say, publish Greyhawk products instead be a more effective means to cater to these Realms-haters than publishing Realms products that are Realms-no-more? |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 21:44:32
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Perhaps ED must re-think of continue publishing Forgotten Realms under the Margaret Weiss Productions, ltd (like Castlemourn) instead of Wizards of the coast (if he is able to do it)...HE and WE must NOT let wizards of the coast ruin our beloved world!!!
As nice as that would be and I'm sure Margarent would absolutely love to publish it, Wizards & Hasbro own Forgotten Realms until they break the licensing agreement they have for it, and the only way they can break it is if they stop publishing it... which means they can't make money off it anymore. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 16:16:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertA call to arms is all well and good, but even a hundred guys with BB guns aren't a threat to a main battle tank.
Yes, we all know that you need a ninja with a sword to take out a tank. At least Storm Shadow could . . .  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 16:10:34
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Perhaps ED must re-think of continue publishing Forgotten Realms under the Margaret Weiss Productions, ltd (like Castlemourn) instead of Wizards of the coast (if he is able to do it)...
HE and WE must NOT let wizards of the coast ruin our beloved world!!!
As we've said before, Ed does not have that choice. WotC owns the Realms, so they can do with it as they please. His choices are to run with the changes or bail on the setting, and he's trying to run with the changes to mitigate the damage. Our choices are to buy 4E Realms products, or to leave them sitting on store shelves, gathering dust.
A call to arms is all well and good, but even a hundred guys with BB guns aren't a threat to a main battle tank. |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 12:45:01
Perhaps ED must re-think of continue publishing Forgotten Realms under the Margaret Weiss Productions, ltd (like Castlemourn) instead of Wizards of the coast (if he is able to do it)...
HE and WE must NOT let wizards of the coast ruin our beloved world!!!
|
| SirUrza |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 19:10:42
*nods*
I know what you mean Rin, I just feel that any material that comes out won't be usable in anyones Realms before we're all playing pre-Spellplague. :P |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 15:46:14
I loved the book because I mentally keep the 4E concepts separate from *my* personal conception of the Realms. In a different setting, I would very much enjoy these new concepts.
I plan to get Worlds and Monsters when that comes out (and again, the material therein won't necessarily be used in "my" Realms). |
| ShepherdGunn |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 11:59:27
Well, in an effort to support our newest FLGS, my wife and I purchased the Races and Classes book.
After actually reading through the book. I'm left with more mixed emotions, and less abject hatred. There are things that I see a plausible improvements to the rules. I mean, having characters be able to heal themselves, freeing up the cleric to aid in other ways... it has merit. The Warlock now being all the spell casters from the Tome of Magic book... things like that. But, if done wrong, D&D 4E is going to hit bottom faster than the Titanic. And possibly with more weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
If they manage to present the Realms in a decent manner... this could.. maybe... possibly... sorta... work.  I hope so. My wife said it best:
"Too much, too fast, all at once"
They're changing EVERYTHING, and instead of just doing it, and letting people digest it, they're cramming it down our throats and telling us that we like it.
I don't know... Maybe in 10 or 20 years we'll look back at this and shake our heads realizing how foolish we were, and resistant to change.
Of course, maybe we'll be watching "D&D 4E: The Death of Imagination", directed by James Cameron, and starring Leonard DeCaprio as "Ed Greenwood". |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 08:17:08
I read the book and I'm very disappointed!! I will wait to see the core books to make my final decision ..But the signs are not good..I think the time that ED GREENWOOD must separate Forgotten Realms with Wizards of the coast is approaching ( if he is able to do such a thing after all).. I do not want my favorite campaign world become the world of warcraft...or else i propose BACK TO 2ND EDITION.... |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 23:42:58
I know the feeling sirreus. We may play 3E rules but we still use the AD&D source books, everything about 4E Realms feels like Wizards is just trying to make things easier on themselves because they can't edit properly. If an author can't do the research, the author has no business writing about the Realms. There's no excuse for some of the mistakes that have been made, especially when you get the characters of your #1 author wrong in their source material. |
| sirreus |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 18:29:40
My group only plays the realms. right now i'm only reading realms novels and the fr source books are some of the most important to me, as a player and dm. i've played them all and i could not even compare anything to the way i love this setting. i was behind 3.0 from the gitgo and supported the 3.5 revision, because it was needed. i've bought dozens of 3rd ed books, as i'm sure most of us have. having said all that: i hate everything i hear about this change, everything.
i feel ten pounds lighter, thanks. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 06 Jan 2008 : 10:10:15
If we get a century time shift I might very well be done with the Realms. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2008 : 19:49:37
I read through it at Border's, and all it cost me was the price of a cup of coffee. 
Some things I like, others I didn't, a few things confused me (do halflings now have 'Afro-American features?), and some I out-right hated (Dragonborn remind me of Draconians, and I didn't touch Dragonlance BECAUSE of them).
Tieflings being a race of their own I can get behind, especially if we get the century time-shift. It would make sense for like-minded creatures (Half-orcs, Half-Elves, etc...) to create their own settlements, and start to develop a racial identity of their own after a time (Palishuk, anyone?)
The fact that every race (with the strange, notable exception of the Halflings) appears to have 'Elven' eyes now is rather odd. I understand this is a fantasy setting, but even the humans? 
It left me with an over-all feeling of 'Meh' - I'm just glad I didn't have to pay for a preview.  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 19:18:49
Yeah, half-orcs (like gnomes) will probably just be released as player races later. If nothing else, they seem to play an important role in the Eberron setting. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 01 Jan 2008 : 04:56:43
I didn't but it, and won't since I've got better things to spend $20 on, but I thumbed through it and found it interesting. I like the direction they are taking with halflings, it seems to make them a little less like "small humans". I am disappointed by the exclusion of half-orcs, but the fact that they seem to be relegated to a later release for a decent reason (they haven't quite figured out what to do with them yet) makes me feel better about it. |
|
|
