| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dalvyn |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 08:15:23
Well met!
I am currently gathering as much lore as I can about Impiltur, in preparation for a campaign project. The - rather ambitious - goal is to write a series of modules (first in French, then perhaps in English if they are good enough!) forming a campaign arc [not unlike Dragon Magazine's adventure paths] that would take place in Impiltur, then to freely distribute these adventures on the web.
One of the design principles is to base those adventures on "official" lore as much as possible, where "official lore" is a hopefully elegant mix between lore from sourcebooks and Dragon magazine articles on the one hand, and lore from the Northern Journey project on the other hand. That is, to take what seems to be good from both sources and discard the ideas that do not seem to fit very well or are just a bit awkward [Sunite Lord of Imphras II introduced to be compatible with the novels for example ;) (*)].
I have read through many 2nd edition sourcebooks, some 3rd edition books, Dragon magazines, and the part of the Northern Journey project that relates to the "Forgotten Kingdom". I have also browsed throughout these forums, and perused many a post by G. Krashos and other scribes (this site is a *great* source of inspiration; a hearty thank you to all those who contributed to it!).
I am still interested in finding more information about the kingdom of Impiltur and its neighbours though, so, if you have homemade documents that you have written for your players and you do not mind sharing your ideas, I would be very glad if you could send me a copy or let me know where I could read them (you can contact me directly at dalvyn(AT)gmail.com).
For the moment, I am working on a "family tree" for the Heltharn Dynasty. Here is what I could deduce from the various sources I managed to get my hand on (I hope that this ASCII family tree will be readable). There are some "holes" and guesses in the lower-right part of the tree though, especially about the close family of the recently deceased would-be kings. I would appreciate any help you could offer to spot/fix the mistakes in this tree, or to fill the holes in it.
Thanks !
----------------------
Imphras I x Sambral
|
--------------
| |
Imbrar Ilmara x Rilaun of Sarshel
|
|
Imphras II x Lasheela of Dilpur
/
/ x Rebaera Osterhown
/ |
------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------
| | | | | |
Talryn Lashilmbrar Kuskur Velimbrar Elphras Fylraun
x Thelmara x Elthindra x Almarean [vanished] x Marea Forgecrown
| Rorntarn | Balindre | Dintersam |
---------------- ----------- -------------------- ----------------
| | | | | | | |
Imphras III Relimbrar Thaum ??? (4 daugthers) Soarimbrar (2 daughters) Elphras
x Ilbritha x ??? the Elder
| Eirlthaun | x ???
------------- ------------- |
| | | | |
Sambryl (daughters) Imphras IV ?? Verimlaun
| / x ???
| / |
|----(wedding)---/ --------------
| |
Soarimbrar ???
the Younger x ???
|
------------
| |
Imphras V Imbrar II
----------------------
(*) Even though it might indeed be very interesting to find an explanation as to why a male Tyrist paladin would become a female Sunite paladin, I would actually rather go with the developments presented in the Northern Journey campaign about Rilaunyr; that is, his "near fall from grace" caused by his obsession with purging Buzzard Bear Harbour and Traders' Bay from pirates and smugglers. |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 03:52:12
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Was the family tree of the Heltharn dynasty ever completed and is it available to scribes in some way?
I find it extraordinarily difficult to keep straight the family relationships between the Lords of Imphras II, Queen-Regent Sambryl and the soon-to-be King Imbrar II.
<BIG SNIP>
I've posted an answer on my thread in the Chamber of Sages so that my stuff can be all together.
-- George Krashos |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 02:04:47
Lhynard at the Forgotten Realms Wiki has coded this beast, along with several other dynastic family trees. Adding to it may take some effort, but he's been known to take requests for the family tree project.
https://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Heltharn_Dynasty/Family_tree |
| Icelander |
Posted - 19 Aug 2018 : 19:34:23
Imphras I x Sambral
|
--------------
| |
Imbrar Ilmara x Rilaun of Sarshel
|
|
Imphras II x Lasheela of Dilpur
/
/ x Rebaera Osterhown
/ |
------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------
| | | | | |
Talryn Lashilmbrar Kuskur Velimbrar Elphras Fylraun
x Thelmara x Elthindra x Almarean [vanished] x Marea Forgecrown
| Rorntarn | Balindre | Dintersam |
---------------- ----------- -------------------- ----------------
| | | | | | | |
Imphras III Relimbrar Thaum ??? (4 daugthers) Soarimbrar (2 daughters) Elphras
x Ilbritha x ??? the Elder
| Eirlthaun | x ???
------------- ------------- |
| | | | |
Sambryl (daughters) Imphras IV ?? Verimlaun
| / x ???
| / |
|----(wedding)---/ --------------
| |
Soarimbrar Ilmara
the Younger x ???
|
------------
| |
Imphras V Imbrar II
---
I've been trying to figure out how to add to this ASCII coded family tree, so I can add the 'Dowager Aunts' as daughters of the younger Elphras and the Lords of Imphras II who descend from them, but I don't have the skills.
If anyone knows how to code this, please 'Reply with Quote' to my post or the first post, take the family tree out and add these extra branches to it.
|
| Icelander |
Posted - 19 Aug 2018 : 19:22:49
Was the family tree of the Heltharn dynasty ever completed and is it available to scribes in some way?
I find it extraordinarily difficult to keep straight the family relationships between the Lords of Imphras II, Queen-Regent Sambryl and the soon-to-be King Imbrar II.
The original Lords of Imphras II are great-grandsons of Imphras II through his fourth son Fyrlaun (and his wife Marea Forgecrown), their son Elphras (named after his uncle who disappeared in 1244 DR) and his daughters, the three 'Dowager Aunts'; Sambral (b. 1285 DR) who married Lord Banarth Huntsilver of Cormyr, Lasheela (b. 1287 DR) who married Lord Derbraun Harrowbrace, and Delmatha (b. 1289 DR) who married Maerstar Moonshimmer of the Grey Forest.
What does that make the familial relationship between Imbrar II and the surviving sons and daughters of the 'Dowager Aunts'?
Some sort of very distant cousins? And the same for Queen-Regent Sambryl?
Imbrar II and the deceased Imphras V are the sons of Ilmara and an unknown (to me, that is) father. Ilmara, in turn, is (was?) the elder sister of King Soarimbrar 'the Younger', and the daughter of Prince Verimlaun.
King Soarimbrar 'the Younger' and his sister Ilmara are descendants of Imphras II 'through the line of his fourth son Velimbrar' (GHotR p. 80). But how many generations are between them and Prince Velimbrar?
The parents of Prince Velimbrar, King Imphras II and his long-time mistress Rebaera Osterhown were married in 1204 DR, after the death of Queen Lasheela, the King's previous wife. Prince Kuskur is said in GHotR to have been born in 1198 DR, but in Champions of Valor, Prince Kuskur is stated to be the son of Imphras II and Rebaera and born in 1205 DR.
Prince Velimbrar and his twin were born 1207 DR (CoV p. 89). Soarimbrar 'the Younger' was born in 1335. His sister Ilmara is supposedly older than him, making her born in 1334 or earlier, unless they were twins. The fact that she gives birth to King Imphras V in 1350 DR also argues for her being born in 1334 DR or earlier.
Soarimbrar 'the Elder' was apparently a son of Velimbrar and grandson of Imphras II, but I can't find his date of birth. Soarimbrar 'the Elder' had at least one son, as Prince Verimlaun is stated to be his son and therefore the great-grandson of Imphras II.
So, do I have the lineage of Imbrar II right this way?
---
Imphras II (b. 1169 DR) (with Rebaera Osterhown)
begat
Velimbrar (b. 1207 DR) who (with Almarean Dintersan)
begat
Soarimbrar 'the Elder' (b. between 1233-1300; probably ca 1240-1260 DR) who (with unknown)
begat
Verimlaun (b. between 1240-1317 DR; probably ca 1270-1290 DR) who (with unknown)
begat
Soarimbrar 'the Younger' (b. 1335 DR) and Ilmara (b. 1334 DR or earlier).
Ilmara then had Imphras V (b. 1350 DR) and Imbrar II (b. 1358 DR) with an unknown father or fathers.
---
There is certainly time for an extra ancestor some time between Velimbrar and the siblings Ilmara and Soarimbrar 'the Younger', but perhaps Velimbrar simply had his son very late in life and the same for Verimlaun.
This lineage also brings up the question, who was Ilmara's husband* and what happened to him, if anything? If he lives, where is he in 1373 DR?
For that matter, does Ilmara, the mother of the King-to-be Imbrar II, still live in 1373 DR?
*Or would that be 'husbands'? There are eight years between the birth of Imphras V and Imbrar II, after all. |
| Dalvyn |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 10:16:52
The excerpts at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20070911a look very very promising, indeed ! And it's good to know that some of the work that has been made on Impiltur will be used in sourcebooks before the (unconfirmed yet?) 100-year-forward move.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I can send you a copy of the original handout, but the Krash reply compilation is being put together for Candlekeep, so you'll likely have to wait for that.
I would be glad for anything you can send my way (even unordered notes), though I can understand if you prefer to wait till you officially release it at Candlekeep. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 01:20:50
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Perhaps ...   
-- George Krashos
I'd say so.
From the previews for GHotR at WotC:-
"A worthy companion to the timeline appears on pages 74 through 86, where we have reproduced detailed lists of the rulers of all the human realms of Faerūn. This information, compiled by George Krashos, provides a host of details that are not also mentioned in the timeline. The history of each country's rulers is a story in itself!"
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 00:30:16
quote:
Originally posted by Dalvyn
That would indeed be great!
I have also found "old" posts (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6098&whichpage=1) indicating that a member of candlekeep.com (Arivia) was writing some handouts about Impiltur for her players, and that a copy might be placed on the site. Is there anything left of it?
I don't recall it being hosted, actually. I have my own copy, which I incorporated into the PDF compilation I mentioned above [after getting permission from Arivia]. It also includes most of the Impilturan replies made by George Krashos both here and at WotC.
I can send you a copy of the original handout, but the Krash reply compilation is being put together for Candlekeep, so you'll likely have to wait for that.
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 23:59:22
Perhaps ...
-- George Krashos
|
| Dalvyn |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 19:43:40
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, IIRC... George, did you and/or Eric once put together a flow chart of the Impilturan succession?
Yep, Eric did one of the Heltharn dynasty. I've written up thumbnail sketches of all the monarchs of Impiltur as well as other stuff too.
-- George Krashos
*ponders silently for a moment*
I guess that, if I was to publish a big book containing a timeline of the Forgotten Realms, I would want to pad it with historical notes, tales, book excerpts, and similar goodies to make it look less like a long list of dates and events.
Genealogical trees for royal families would make good padding, too.
Only a few days left before we get some answers perhaps? |
| Dalvyn |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 17:30:21
I haven't. :) I think I have also read all the information available in official 2nd edition or 3rd edition books, and in the various Dragon magazines ("The Forgotten Kingdoms", "Soargar's Legacy", and the unpublished sequel to Soargar's Legacy, "Imbrar's Inheritance", which can be found at http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0310D&L=realms-l&P=R2&m=56459).
This is why I am now mostly looking for "homemade supplements". |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 16:47:12
Don't forget the useful, albeit non-canon, resources from the Northern Journey Campaign. They have a whole book on Impiltur -
http://www.candlekeep.com/campaign/nj_main.htm |
| Dalvyn |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 14:03:40
That would indeed be great!
I have also found "old" posts (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6098&whichpage=1) indicating that a member of candlekeep.com (Arivia) was writing some handouts about Impiltur for her players, and that a copy might be placed on the site. Is there anything left of it? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 21:17:52
And hopefully, we will get a few new locations from George that I can add to the Impiltur map.
http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/Impiltur-Campaign-Map-62424946 |
| Dalvyn |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 14:44:55
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Once complete, i'll like to display this in the library proper, if I may?
Certainly. No matter how that project evolves, one "principle" that will not be modified is that the results will be freely shared and reusable by all. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 13:44:37
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, IIRC... George, did you and/or Eric once put together a flow chart of the Impilturan succession?
Yep, Eric did one of the Heltharn dynasty. I've written up thumbnail sketches of all the monarchs of Impiltur as well as other stuff too.
-- George Krashos
|
| Alaundo |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 09:29:05
Well met
Very impressive, Dalvyn and a worthwhile project 
Once complete, i'll like to display this in the library proper, if I may? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 09:24:21
Actually, IIRC... George, did you and/or Eric once put together a flow chart of the Impilturan succession?
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 09:00:12
The best information can be found by weaving together scattered references from the following products:-
Dreams of Red Wizards.
The Bloodstone Lands.
Sea of Fallen Stars.
Champions of Ruin and Champions of Valor -- Eric L Boyd told me that he sees the Impiltur sections in both as a convenient mini-setting for Impiltur campaigns.
DRAGON #277 - "Soargar's Legacy" -- George's detailing, with a little Impilturan lore, of these important weapons for the realm.
DRAGON #346 - Krash's "Impiltur: The Forgotten Kingdom" article.
Unapproachable East (last chapter).
FRCS.
Grand History of the Realms.
And finally, my-soon-to-be-completed (like everything else I'm offering up to Candlekeep) compilation of ALL of Krash's "Impiltur" posts made both here at Candlekeep and at WotC through the years.
-- I think George will have to tackle the "family tree" section of your post!
|
|
|
