| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 02:08:33
Okay, since I'm in mind of NPC classes, and I've been trying to think of NPC roles not really filled by current NPC classes, I was thinking of a "lesser cleric," a cleric class that isn't an adventurer, but still has some of the divine favor of their patron.
Adepts feel more tribal, remote, or small settlement in nature. I'm thinking of aspirants as being priests that serve in large, organized temples as the "baseline" less powerful cleric types. They are full fledged priests, ordained in all that their order would have them do, but not adventuring priests, learning how to channel the really powerful abilities their god grants.
My thoughts are that they would still have access to healing spells (and like most NPC spellcasters, their spells would top out at 5th level). But while I can see them with healing and divination magic, I don't see them getting much in the way of combat or the like.
I can picuture them as having limited turning ability, perhaps akin to a paladin's ability to turn.
So, with that in mind, what kind of spells would you see on these guys' spell lists? Are there any abilities that should or shouldn't go with them. What are my fellow scribes thoughts? |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 08:43:20
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Thanks Tom . . . I guess this shows how much I pay attention to Eberron?
More along, move along. There's nothing to see there  |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 23:06:18
Thanks Tom . . . I guess this shows how much I pay attention to Eberron? |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 22:23:29
Another potential Eberron pick up. I believe the Sharn book has the urban adept, which is a tweaked adept for a more urban environment. Might give some good ideas as well. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 22:34:56
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I just kind of wanted to brainstorm with anyone that wanted to play along or thought along similar lines, but I apologize if I'm taking up board space with conjecture that doesn't work for everyone.
No, no, it's an interesting discussion of these non-adventuring characters anyway. But while I can understand high-level experts or commoners as people who excel in things outside the main D&D classes, I don't think the idea of highly able but fundamentally non-heroic wizards or priests sits well with the Realms, as perhaps it does with Star Wars or some other D&D settings. The Realms is an egalitarian place where heroism is a matter of opportunity and the focus of the story, rather than a hard division of protagonists/antagonists and extras.
As for plagues, as it is, a cleric per hundred population, to take an arbitrary figure, is enough to salve minor outbreaks but not stop large or magical ones, which is as it should be.
You make a good point about the local homebody that stumbles into adventure and ends up saving the day and being swept off into adventure, but at the same time, its been mentioned a few times that there are clergy that aren't trained to take up arms the way a cleric is either. Its a point well stated though.
Also, I should flay myself for using that arguement, as I've railed against it myself. While having only "aspirants" to stop a plauge would definately help it to have a chance to spread, I've said myself to others that if you take some of the really nasty real world diseases, such as Ebola (I know, its an extreme example), unless there were clerics on hand with remove disease ready for nearly everyone, you would still have a huge number of people die. Even more slowly moving plagues would indeed be problematic, since people don't always notice they have symptoms, and clerics can only cure them so many times per day.
So it definately wouldn't only be because of having to have higher level divine casters that one could spread. It would help the epidemic, but I should have worded that a bit more carefully. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 22:18:25
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I just kind of wanted to brainstorm with anyone that wanted to play along or thought along similar lines, but I apologize if I'm taking up board space with conjecture that doesn't work for everyone.
No, no, it's an interesting discussion of these non-adventuring characters anyway. But while I can understand high-level experts or commoners as people who excel in things outside the main D&D classes, I don't think the idea of highly able but fundamentally non-heroic wizards or priests sits well with the Realms, as perhaps it does with Star Wars or some other D&D settings. The Realms is an egalitarian place where heroism is a matter of opportunity and the focus of the story, rather than a hard division of protagonists/antagonists and extras.
As for plagues, as it is, a cleric per hundred population, to take an arbitrary figure, is enough to salve minor outbreaks but not stop large or magical ones, which is as it should be. |
| David E |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 09:32:30
I really don't have anything to add in terms of rules, but I just thought I'd chime in and say that I like how this class turned out. I agree that NPC classes, even if they aren't used much, help to explain how certain things in the Forgotten Realms work (such as your example of plagues). Keep up the good work KEJR. |
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 04:25:00
I have a problem with only ONE spell on your spell list, Knight.
Revivify. I'm sorry, that seems a bit... powerful, and it is better suited to ADVENTURING faithful. Now, with the whole scribe scroll idea behind it, I actually like the spell on the list, I just think that it might be a bit of a stretch.
Other than that VERY minor objection, good work man.
/d |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 00:53:30
I'm only doing this to follow through, in my own thought process, on the same logic of the Adept, or any NPC classes, that being that in 3.5 there seems to be a set of NPC classes that has the same function as PC classes, but are less powerful than PC classes.
If I were to run (or suggest to a player) a cleric class that was less focused on combat and more focused on learning and the like, as far as a class that's actually balanced against PC classes, I'd suggest either the Cloistered Cleric from Unearthed Arcana or the Archivist from Heroes of Horror, both of wich are more about knowledge and learning at the expense of some of the offensive capabilities of the standard adventuring cleric.
I understand that many people may not care much about NPC classes, or use them much, but in my mind I was following the logic of the existing ones, especially since I liked the Gleaner presented on Rich Burlew's site. I just kind of wanted to brainstorm with anyone that wanted to play along or thought along similar lines, but I apologize if I'm taking up board space with conjecture that doesn't work for everyone. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 21:36:45
I'm afraid I don't see the advantage of these two classes, KE. Surely non-adventuring priests could pray for offensive spells, they just don't. I'd say they're only lesser than adventuring ones in terms of fighting (so a BAB penalty), not magic (domain spells) or status (the term 'aspirant'). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 20:34:34
Okay, so here are my thoughts on the spell list for the Aspirant:
0-level Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds (Good or Neutral only), Detect Poison, Guidance, Light, Mending, Purify Food and Water, Resistance, Virtue
1st-level Bless, Bless Water, Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch, Endure Elements, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Sanctuary
2nd-level Aid, Augury, Calm Emotion, Consecrate, Delay Poison, Gentle Repose, Make Whole, Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Restoration (Lesser), Zone of Truth
3rd-level Continual Flame, Create Food and Water, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Glyph of Warding, Helping Hand, Locate Object, Magic Circle againt Evil, Protection from Energy, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Speak with Dead
4th-level Cure Critical Wounds, Discern Lies, Divination, Imbue With Spell Ability, Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Sending, Tongues
5th-level Atonement, Break Enchantment, Commune, Cure Light Wounds (mass), Hallow, Mark of Justice, Revivify
So the main point of this spell list would be to allow them to do good for the community by keeping the water supply and food supply good, curing disease and poisons, breaking cures and afflictions, without doing the "big" miracles like raising the dead. They can also do the concecration of temples and the like, so if the order never has a fully trained cleric, they can still build new temples or the like.
Since these guys are in a support role, I wouldn't give them inflict abilities, since even in an evil community these guys aren't going to be front line fighters. Most of the clergy that would be dealing with undead and the like in a church should likely be full fledged clerics at any rate, to my way of thinking. That having been said, where ever there is a "Protection from X" spell, clerics of other alignements can use Law/Chaos/Good/Evil.
If we use the adept spell progression, in a church that mainly has aspirants and no full blown clerics, the following things would be true:
No curing disease, blindness, or deafness unless there was at least an 8th level aspirant at the church.
No neutralizing poisons unless there was at least a 12th level aspirant in attendance.
While most churches large enough to have a 12th level aspirant should likely have a cleric or two as senior clergy, the point is that this does give you a little more flexibility when it comes to populating a church and deciding what services are available there.
It also gives you a reason to have healing, spellcasting servants of the gods in a given place, and still have a plauge spread (after all, if most of the churches in a given area have an aspirant instead of a cleric, they would have to be at least 8th level to deal with it).
Just some thoughts. Let me know what you think. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 21:04:56
I'm not 100% sure that they should even have access to domain spells, since that would kind of indicate "deeper knowledge" that is only imparted to the more powerful, better equiped adventuring priests.
I can still see them turning undead, if only because when even something minor, liked a cursed spirit or something similar, plagues the locals near the church, they are going to ask for help, and if all the adventurers are off fighting liches and wraiths, the power of the aspirants faith might at least be enough to keep minor undead at bay, perhaps long enough for the local warriors to douse the thing with holy water.
Pretty much agree on all of the last bit, as far as hit dice, saves and the like.
I really like the scribing scrolls thing, though not automatically the potion thing. Not that some wouldn't pick up brew potion, but the scribing thing seems more natural. Still, I'm hesitant to give scribe scroll as a bonus AND give them turning so I'll have to think of it some more.
One of the reasons I like the scribe scroll thing isn't just because, as you correctly point out, the monastic transcription thing, but also because I can see these guys being the ones who fill up the temple storehouses with utility spells for the community (Cure light wounds, purify food and drink, slow poison, etc.)
But then they have to do something with their feats, right? |
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 05:53:18
Okay, you asked fer it...
Spells:
Divination, Healing OR Inflicting (deity issue here), ONE Domain, but no Domain Power, as that's a Cleric's role.
I agree about the Turning undead being like a paladin's, but is this too much for an NPC flock cleric? Perhaps/Perhaps not.
The next thing is my thoughts towards scribe scroll/brew potion. These guys should be able to do that, and they'd be pretty good at it. Think like 16th century monks on earth, scribing away every day.
They'd have willpower, but less reflexes and fortitude. Base attack should be low. A kicker ability and you're done. Hit die: d6, simple weapon proficiencies, and no armor proficiency. |
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