| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 21:22:50
If Death Knell is cast upon a fallen character, does the resulting decomposition make it impossible to raise the character from the dead? |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 00:13:44
To be honest I kind of jumped the gun a little with the topic starter. I had just read the NWN2 spell description which states "The closest recently killed living target decomposes and you gain 1d8 temporary hit points and a +2 bouns to Strength." The spell description in the 3.5 PHB doesn't allude to any decomposition, though it makes sense that it would have that effect.
I suppose that the spell's extraction of mana would accelerate decomposition according to whatever percentage the 1d8 roll is of the fallen character's total HP? Eg, for a 1st level wizard with only 4 HP it could be pretty bad. And for a 9th level dwarven fighter it wouldn't appear to do much to the body. Except of course for making Raise Dead impossible. |
| Tyr |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 22:52:21
yeah i'd figure as much.
For the disintegration of the corpse it would have to be resurrection even if it wasn't a death spell, as raise dead needs an mostly complete corpse. |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 12:35:16
Although I wonder if even when the original cause of death was a Death effect, things change because after being made undead the creature is killed a second time via Undeath to Death. Perhaps the second, more recent cause of death overrides the original one? |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 09:47:15
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
But when the undeath is "cured," in effect, by the Undeath to Death spell, wouldn't that change things re: Raise Dead? Because the character is no longer undead--he's dead. It has been released from undeath, etc.
Its just a feeling but i would say: yes you are right. It is a 'cure' in that sense. Raise dead should work.
To explain:
a creature turned into an undead and then destroyed (either by hacking it apart or turning it) remains a 'destroyed undead' for that matter. Rules apply - Raise dead won't work - Resurrection yes!
Now a creature turned into an undead and then turned into a 'dead creature' once again by the means of the spell 'Undeath to death' would be 'dead'. To return a dead creature to the living, you could use 'Raise dead' but it would again depend on the way he was killed. If by the means of a death effect than Rais dead wound not work (see above) but Resurrecton would. If killed by other means Raise dead should work.
Ergdusch |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 02:26:23
I don't know for sure on this one. There may be some kind of lingering "lock" on the soul of the deceased coming back even after this, something that a more powerful spell has to break through. I'm not sure one way or the other on this one. |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 02:24:33
But when the undeath is "cured," in effect, by the Undeath to Death spell, wouldn't that change things re: Raise Dead? Because the character is no longer undead--he's dead. It has been released from undeath, etc. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 02:05:45
From the SRD version of Raise Dead:
"A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell."
Resurrection will bring someone back that has arisen as undead, but I can't answer how much of their life as undead they would actually remember. |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 01:51:12
A follow-up question:
If a slain character is made Undead by casting Animate Dead upon the corpse, when Undeath to Death is cast upon it will Raise Dead return the soul to the living? Or would Resurrection, True Resurrection, Wish, or Miracle be required?
Would the soul even be able to remember it's former existence in its undead state? If a soul can't even remember it's former existence its probably not going to want to come back. But I suppose the state of undeath on earth might be different from the outer planes to which the soul travels in the afterlife. Perhaps the soul could be in some sort of nightmarish, ghostlike state (i.e., supposedly ghosts usually don't even realize they're dead, something along those lines). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 00:11:02
Yeah, thats why Death effects often also carry the "evil" descriptor as well. Nasty little spells these things are. Also, not every spell with the "evil" descriptor mentions that clerics or druids whose alignments, or the alignments of their deities, are prohibited from using "evil" spells. Its stated in the class description for those classes. |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 00:01:26
Raise Dead does say that characters killed by a Death effect cannot be returned to the living, though. I was coming at it more from the point of view of wondering whether a priest would need to have relatively intact remains to cast the spell upon. But as Knight Errant points out it is the 'Death effect' cause of death that would cause Raise Dead to fail in such a case. Near as I can see that's correct. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 00:00:23
I'm not heavily invested myself, so if you feel that it shouldn't work that way, go for it. I don't think it would be game breaking. However, part of how things are set up in 3.5 is that once you give something an overall descriptor, everything else in that category has certain traits that don't need to be spelled out over and over again. Nothing with the "death" descriptor says that it prevents Raise Dead, but "death attacks" does say this.
Lemernis, yes, if you read it the way I do, then raise dead would not work, but ressurection and true ressurection (and wish and miracle) would still be able to raise someone killed by this spell. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 23:44:31
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, its listed as a "Death" spell, and death effect spells keep a character from being raised by a raise dead spell, but they don't keep them from being ressurected. Unless I'm off on my reasoning somewhere.
Yes that is true, but then it should say in the spell also.
Under Death kneel there is not said anything about the character cant be raised by a raise dead. So I would say yes he/she can.
Death Knell
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathKnell.htm
|
| Lemernis |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 22:48:44
Thanks. Resurrection (and True Resurrection) would succeed in that case but not Raise Dead? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 15 Jan 2007 : 21:49:26
Well, its listed as a "Death" spell, and death effect spells keep a character from being raised by a raise dead spell, but they don't keep them from being ressurected. Unless I'm off on my reasoning somewhere. |
