| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 23:42:24
As opposed to the usual topics of "Who is the Best Widget Maker" and so on, this topic will be about what a player character can do to establish himself as the best in his chosen field as far as the rest of Faerun is concerned.
Obviously, the point of levels is moot because no one has a magical level detector and the worst swordsman in the world can establish his reputation if he is sufficiently good at bluffing.
Now, I don't think with the characters of Ssass Tam/The Simbul/Elminster and Manshoon that it's possible a character is going to match their reputations and thus its pretty much impossible to be the best wizard as far as anyone's concerned.
Swordsman and other things are open though. Specific challenges they'd have to overcome are welcome to. |
| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Reefy |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 17:40:11
A fair point, equipment can make a big difference, particularly if what somebody has is geared towards fighting certain creatures or types of opponents. Also don't underestimate the importance of the battlefield and terrain. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 17:35:01
I also question how important good equipment is here. While everyone will forgive a extraordinarily good blade, there's also things like Gloves of Dexterity and bracers of defense etc. A well loaded down warrior will be able to do extremely well in such a battle.
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| Ergdusch |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 17:26:53
...leave the norm in any possible way, no matter what direction and do that publicly. Thereafter, just keep dodging the deadly attempts of those that oppose you that will most definitly come - and they will be many. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 17:23:52
Also remember that every dog has his day. In duels or competitions, it is performance on the day that counts, so even a less skilful swordsman can cause an upset if luck is with them. Sure, the better swordsmen will dominate generally, but being the best is not the same as being invincible. What sprang to mind was the jousting competitions from A Song Of Ice And Fire - the better fighters tended to progress further, but a lot also went on who was sharper on the day. In D&D terms, think about the variables in a fight. Improved Initiative and a high Dex will give you the edge in terms of striking first, but there's no guarantees you'll be faster in any given fight. |
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 06:27:14
I think there are a few things that can definitely increase a player's reputation with a blade:
1) Accomplish a great feat of swordsmanship publicly
2) Have an extra-ordinary blade, possibly something of historical significance, but probably definitely something sought after by many.
3) Have a strong, easilly identifiable, moral quality. Good or bad, it ought to be strong, and easilly identifiable. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 02:40:59
Obviously there is no way to ever know that you are the best, or for anyone else to, which of course means that its all a matter of perception. With that having been the case, it goes down to how you promote yourself, as Mace says.
First, try to describe any feat of combat in the most fantastic means possible. Also, definately hang around a skilled bard. Work for local officials . . . even if you aren't the best, the more visible you are, the more people get used to thinking of your name. And find out who is considered the best, and if you aren't in their league, try to be their student. Being known as the student of the greatest swordsmen in X goes a long way to making you seem more important. If you are in their league, ask for a duel. Not a deadly one, just a nice, friendly fencing "lesson." Obviously, since you can duel non lethally according to the rules in Magic of Faerun, this works for wizards trying to build a "rep" as well.
Finally, if you find out the person regarded as the best managed to fail at a given thing, finish that task. If Sir Ethegard never could defeat the Death Knight of Hallows Keep, take the death knight out, and by "transferance" you get regarded as more successful than your rival as the "best."
You seem to already have some mechanics in place, but a few that relate to this topic are the Master and Apprentice feats from the DMG II can establish the relationship as a student of a well known teacher, the reputation rules that were presented in Unearthed Arcana, and that are also part of the SRD, can be used to measure fame, and one interesting option is the Famous feat from Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous. Once you are 6th level, you can take this feat if you have done something the DM determines is "important" and you can start putting ranks in a fame skill, which is useful for convincing people of your prowess.
Hope that this might help some. |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 01:03:07
Oh also, you know how to instantly size up and ruthlessly exploit any vulnerability the opponent presents. Like this guy this guy. ;) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:39:38
On a very interesting note, I do think its important that no one is the "best" universally. You're going to have people that think their local warriors of X reknown are the best even if there is a much better guy within walking distance. Also, some people aren't going to be as reknowned as warriors because other aspects of their personality overshadow it. Drizzt Do'Urden is treated as a god of war because scimitars is all he does. Yet, we know that Azoun (20th level fighter) could probably beat him to a bloody pulp unarmed.
I do think dueling is very important for that. The character is based on chambara characters like Zatoichi and Jinn from Samurai Champloo. I've started to insert "good swordsmen" opponents in addition to the regular evil minions. |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:29:35
Good (and lucky) enough to become legendary is what it's about, I think. I'm sure on any given day in the Old West, even the fastest on the draw in any region could be outdrawn by someone out there. One mistake against a deadly high level opponent and that's it, for most anyone. There's not a lot of room for error.
In persistent world perma-death play with real time combat using D&D rules, the PCs who survive to gain higher levels always fight smart, and usually have an exit strategy. And they typically pick their fights well. They don't take foolish risks. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:29:09
Well, if you go for it you may actually want to consider "real" injuries, not just reduction of HPs. It's one thing to say "Oooh, he just took 20 HPs with that crit" but an entirely different thing if that crit "cuts into the legt straight to the bone" and the character looses his dex bonus to AC, and can only move at one quarter of his usual speed, provided he makes a Fort save DC=damage dealt+rounds of combat |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:24:39
Oddly, I'm not sure the character would really worry about it so much. He's a swordsman from Wa that got trapped through a portal here in Faerun and has been attempting to further his skills ever since by constant practice, challenging ever more difficult opponents, and generally acting like Ryu from Streetfighter with a Sword. I'd say he's the perfect Monk if not for the fact that he's a straight fighter due to the inability of monks to use most of their special abilities armed.
The party con-man (Charlatan Bard despite it not being converted over yet for 3E I think) might definitely try to use things like True Strike and Cats Grace to make him seem like a better warrior than he is though. He's just the type to fake it for whatever reason. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:23:03
Many of the best swordsmen are non-hero-types in the Realms, so if you wanna come up with your Apollo Creek for your PC, go for it, but make sure you don't just put the guy on a pedestal. If he fights for the title in something as lethal as swordsmanship, let there be a chance that he actually dies...no pain, no gain... if you've ever done any full-blown athletic competition (and I don't mean chess or golf) you know what I'm talking about (btw, if you doubt me, I won the state championship in rowing about 20 years back, so I do know what it takes) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:20:20
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Ha! Good one, I'll have to remember that for an Elminster line.
Thank you.
Regarding trying to establish yourself as the best swordsman...I'm not sure that's a very productive way of thinking. If you love your craft for itself and perfect it, the "awards" and recognition will likely come along by themselves. Also, fame is probably partly about luck, as well--and can be a double-edged sword. How will this character like dealing with all the wanna-bes who come to challenge him?
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| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:16:18
A very good summation I think there Mace.
I'm also thinking you need to be about 13th level to even think about actually passing yourself off as the best unless you intend to kill someone and take their identity. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:15:02
To become the best in something you need to claw your way to the top...much like Entreri did when he fought Drizzt constantly, much like the boxing world championships... you need:
a) a good promoter
and b) like the fair Lady Rinonalyrna said "not get killed" when you fight the defenders of said title
It's like any other competition, just more deadly... and, in all seriousness, that is an answer you really did not need a forum for, how do you get the best in anything, you beat the one who currently IS the best. Or you get a good producer and call yourself Milli Vanilli |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:09:45
Okay, now that's out of the way, would you like to contribute something in exchange for satisfying your idle curiosity that I as a reader of fantasy/sword and sorcery/high adventure like heroism a whole-whole lot?
Edit:
I admit, part of this has to do with the fact that our gaming group (we named ourselves the Knights of Cormyr for our local activities) incorporated essentially Werewolf the Apocalypse's Glory and Honor rules into our games.
Hackmaster the 1st Edition revised parody by Kenzerco did the same thing. It adds to the RPGing experience in my opinion by giving a +1 point to Diplomacy and other reaction checks per permanent point of Glory that a player has for initial reaction checks and Honor adds the point in dealing with more personal interactions.
Its helped make the player characters much more conscious of their deeds and encourages them to feel that they're making a difference. In 2nd edition before I ever heard of Werewolf the Apocalypse, I was a die hard fan of the Complete Book of Bards fame kit for my bard Charn.
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| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:08:16
Helps, nay...confirms, aye |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:05:22
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I'm just wondering if you have some kind of hero-fetish... almost all of your comments and threads are in that direction...
Actually, its in response to a player's question because his player character wants to establish himself as the pre-eminent swordsmen in the minds of the Realm's people.
But okay, sure, I have a hero fetish if that helps your image of me.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
...not get killed.
Ha! Good one, I'll have to remember that for an Elminster line.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:04:46
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
As opposed to the usual topics of "Who is the Best Widget Maker" and so on, this topic will be about what a player character can do to establish himself as the best in his chosen field as far as the rest of Faerun is concerned.
...not get killed. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 00:01:46
I'm just wondering if you have some kind of hero-fetish... almost all of your comments and threads are in that direction... |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 23:58:25
Take note Mace that this is about getting your reputation up.
...if that makes any difference to you.
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| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 23:55:58
... |
