| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 20:23:54
I love Cyric, I love him to death but he never particularly worked for me as a nameless god of evil. I'm more inclined to use the character in a different way and I'm interested in seeing how people might think to wield him.
Cyric's porfolio's lend themselves to making the character into a Trickster God more than anything else. The Lord of Murder, Lies, Illusion, and the like seems to be the best suited for elaborate schemes and falsehoods. A character very interested in manipulating politics and the like.
(Given Gargauth has been offed in my campaign, I'm fairly sure that Cyric will make an excellent patron for the Knights of the Shield)
This will also bring Cyric into conflict with Bane more directly as the character will attempt to gain power over politics and chaos. I also tend to treat Bane as more of a character devoted to "PEACE THROUGH POWER" as opposed to subterfuge.
Frankly, I'm just looking forward to removing the stink of him being a overpromoted deity and instead making him every bit as worthy of his rank as Greater God as he might be. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Twilight |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 02:05:05
Cyric is the best |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 00:10:17
I'd definately say that lies and even murder are actually pretty good portfolios to have when it comes to "placation" style power boosts. As has been stated, even fairly "good" people have told a few lies, and one or two of them might even invoke Cyric's name to cover their deed as well.
As far as murder goes, I can picture even fairly devout worshipers of Shar or Bane invoking Cyric to help them get away with a murder of a superior or the like. Heck, Cyric may even be more inclined to listen to them since the irony is just too great for him (though as Ed has pointed out, I doubt CLERICS of Shar or Bane would do this, but lay worshipers among the Zhentarim, for example).
It does seem that he is more accepted in the South of Faerun as well, and it may be more acceptable there for even a neutral aligned illusionist to hold him as patron, or perhaps a vizier or similar "court animal" who holds him as patron to allow them to be smooth "diplomats" and to see through the mechanations of others.
Although he might have a better "marketing campaign" going as far as new worshipers goes if he didn't have a skull as part of his symbol . . . |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 00:01:28
quote:
Originally posted by see
Remember, Talos and Umberlee get by almost entirely on placation.
Cyric probably has few devoted worshipers, and those would most likely be assassins and illusionists. But anyone making plots, planning murder, or telling lies probably should give him some attention.
And look at it this way...is there anyone around who has never told a lie, ever? |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 16:34:58
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Faiths and Pantheons does say Cyric has "an immense following throughout Faerun," though.
Which has to be taken in a polytheistic sense, rather than a monotheistic sense.
You see, just because someone "follows" Cyric (and by follows I mean placates, gives a portion of worship to) doesn't mean they ONLY follow Cyric.
Further, Cyric is the god of lies and deception. Which means, without divine intervension, it's likely that he can convince you of just about anything. This also means that a devote worshiper of Cyric should be a decently accomplished liar or better.
Of course this whole post is based on what I think they mean by "followers" in F&P :) |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 14:53:29
Faiths and Pantheons does say Cyric has "an immense following throughout Faerun," though. |
| see |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 09:01:01
Remember, Talos and Umberlee get by almost entirely on placation.
Cyric probably has few devoted worshipers, and those would most likely be assassins and illusionists. But anyone making plots, planning murder, or telling lies probably should give him some attention. And anyone who would be on the receiving end of plots, murder attempts, or lies probably should offer him placation. Which means he's probably getting a lot of passing worship from scheming nobles, criminals (and officers of the law trying to catch them), merchants (both dishonest cheaters and honest ones trying to avoid being cheated), and so forth. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 15:33:12
One of the other fun things about Cyric is that he is insane. You can make the most convoluted plots you can imagine that amount to nothing at all :)
However, like I said earlier, it's more fun to make it appear that the convoluted plot had no real end goals while in all reality it was something else entirely (ie. the whole "Trial of Cyric" deal, imo that whole situation went exactly how Cyric wanted *g*) |
| Julian Grimm |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 20:15:12
Personally I use him as he was in FRA. I wasn't real happy that after he became possibly the biggest meance after the Avatar Crisis that they just bumped him down within an few years. Also I hate bane so that may be part of it.
I do like the Set concept and may adopt that. |
| Grandmaster Kane |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 12:00:18
Bane never stays down which why he will win.
Even if he getys killed he could prolly just res from a hidden banechild somewhere |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 21 Jan 2007 : 05:03:15
On the other hand, he's stated that Bane will probably win in a lengthy war against Cyric but that it's hardly one that will be resolved within any mortal's lifespan.
That leaves any amount of time for Bane to be dumped on or Cyric to make a deal with Shar or someone else.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Jan 2007 : 02:17:08
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
While he may not be as insane any more, though as I recall Ed Greenwood does still suggest Cyric has some residual mental instability, chaos and godly power can make for a dangerous foe.
Ed's made it clear that Cyric is still, largely, insane... or at least at a point where his disturbed mental state still provides his enemies with some degree of chance when attempting to counter his crazy schemes.
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| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 21 Jan 2007 : 00:59:11
And how do you see Cyric being "de-throned", really?
While he may not be as insane any more, though as I recall Ed Greenwood does still suggest Cyric has some residual mental instability, chaos and godly power can make for a dangerous foe.
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| Grandmaster Kane |
Posted - 19 Jan 2007 : 23:57:10
Swicth to bane becuase the second bane death will never come and cyric will be dethrone (hopefully) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 23:00:34
quote:
Not everyone in the faith can be a priest, though. You still can't have a church without general followers. Cyricism is supposed to be one of the fastest growing faiths in Faerun, but it's really hard to understand it's general appeal to the masses. Not to interject too much 'realism' into a fantasy world, but it would be easier to buy if the faith promised some sort of benefit to followers other than psychotic depravity.
With all due respect, why do you think it doesn't? Lords of Darkness describes the Cyricists as accepting anyone and anything as worshippers. They also throw favors like cure spells and so on for free to Ogres and the "masses" in order to win them over being exploiting them mercilessly. They're sort of like demonic televangelists even in canon.
Hell, Malik convinced a good portion of SHADES to join up.
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| Lemernis |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 22:53:11
quote:
Originally posted by Korginard
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Why in the world would anyone want to worship a mad (or seemingly mad) god who simply uses up his followers!
Because the priest of Cyric is FAR too important to be wasted and used up in such a way. Oh sure Cyric does so with others because they are fools and useless to him, but the priest knows his role is far greater.
It seems fitting that a Delusional god is served by Delusional priests does it not?
That accounts for a great deal of Cyrics clergy.
Not everyone in the faith can be a priest, though. You still can't have a church without general followers. Cyricism is supposed to be one of the fastest growing faiths in Faerun, but it's really hard to understand it's general appeal to the masses. Not to interject too much 'realism' into a fantasy world, but it would be easier to buy if the faith promised some sort of benefit to followers other than psychotic depravity. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 22:52:53
quote:
Because the priest of Cyric is FAR too important to be wasted and used up in such a way. Oh sure Cyric does so with others because they are fools and useless to him, but the priest knows his role is far greater.
It seems fitting that a Delusional god is served by Delusional priests does it not?
That accounts for a great deal of Cyrics clergy.
I assume that 5 minutes along with the God of lies is enough to convince them that they are the most important people in the world to him. Of course, I love how Cyric seems to enjoy screwing with his faithful.
He made a rug merchant into his Chosen. If that's not a gesture of contempt to the rest of the pantheon's overpowered champions, I don't know what is.
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| David E |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 19:40:40
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
My version of the religion is going to be heavily based on the Cult of Set from Conan the Barbarian with its exterior being hippie and nonoffensive while its interior is vile, cannibalistic, and decadent.
Conan the Barbarian was just on AMC the other night, actually.
I really like your conception of Cyricism, Charles. It seems to me that it is only fitting that the religion of liars would itself appear to be a big lie - murderers and liars pretending to be hippies.
I need to reread some of the stuff on Cyric and put some more thought into this. Also need to read the Avatar Trilogy, after everything you guys have said about it. |
| Korginard |
Posted - 09 Jan 2007 : 18:12:01
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Why in the world would anyone want to worship a mad (or seemingly mad) god who simply uses up his followers!
Because the priest of Cyric is FAR too important to be wasted and used up in such a way. Oh sure Cyric does so with others because they are fools and useless to him, but the priest knows his role is far greater.
It seems fitting that a Delusional god is served by Delusional priests does it not?
That accounts for a great deal of Cyrics clergy.
|
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 21:45:17
Thanks.
I appreciate it.
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| Lemernis |
Posted - 07 Jan 2007 : 16:57:18
Sounds very much in line with what I have read about the faith. I don't see any significant contortions there. I'm not an expert in the subject by any means. But it seems to me you've managed to make it more plausible that the faith would be enjoying success. Good work! |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 07 Jan 2007 : 15:38:12
Okay, here is how I'm going to play Cyric's religion. Tell me if it breaks canon rather than stretching it.
"Cyricism is the religion of self centered narcissists. The religion itself is one that is designed to appeal to everyone with almost no genuine truth about reality inside it. The current and ever being revised dogma of the faith is that Cyric is the only God in Abber-Toril, that he cast down the false gods that are actually demons, and walked amongst them as a mortal for a brief time in order to kill Bhaal along with the other members of the Dark Triad. Take note that none of his priests really believe this. Cyric's priests are a self-serving bunch of murderers, con men, and tricksters whom travel across Toril while spreading poison in the ears of everyone who will listen. One of their chief methods is to create disasters which they offer relief from or frame existing priests for horrible crimes that they uncover. A typical Cyric plan would enslave the leader of a local orc tribe before using one's power to drive them off in an attack. This helps the religion counteract its horrific reputation despite the unison of the gods in condemning it."
"The priests of Cyric benefit primarily from having the confidence of their god. The heady feeling of meeting one's deity in the flesh is something that few priests are ever graced with but some priests of Cyric have weekly meetings with their god. No one seems to realize this doesn't reflect Cyric's care and attention to them but the fact that he micromanages everything in his faith. The quality of his minions is also somewhat lacking even as the Mad God doesn't care. They make surprisingly good use of mind affecting magic and put it forth to debased ends. Rare is the place where Cyricism exists that does not have beautiful young women seemingly suddenly converted to the faith and serving the needs of the followers with a fanatics bent."
"Finally, take note that Cyric is mad but he is not stupid. Cyric is delusional, vain beyond any sense of his genuine worth, prone to psychotic rages, and a megalomaniac. NONE OF THIS prevents him from properly administrating his faith. The seeming parasitic setting of his own churchs actually works well for his faith. His followers paranoia drives them to fits of conversion and hoarding as their fear makes them spread the religion all the faster. Cyricism is not dying on the vine. It is growing rapidly."
My version of the religion is going to be heavily based on the Cult of Set from Conan the Barbarian with its exterior being hippie and nonoffensive while its interior is vile, cannibalistic, and decadent.
|
| WalkerNinja |
Posted - 07 Jan 2007 : 03:35:43
I know! Party Hats and Ka... Damn! someone stole my line! |
| Lemernis |
Posted - 07 Jan 2007 : 02:29:29
Well here's an example of how I'm working with Cyric, and perhaps it does deviate a bit from the standard fare:
In Amn, late 1370, I have the Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse as an unequivocally heretical sect, mortally at odds with the traditional sect of the Mountain of Skulls. The Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse in the Small Teeth has allied itself with the Sythillisian Empire and co-rules the oppulent Amnian city of Esmeltaran. In reaction, the Mountain of Skulls temple of Cyric in the Cloud Peaks has sided with Amn.
The Blackwill Haarken Akhmelere of the Twin Towers professes that Cyric has decreed to him that 1) Cyric's faithful may now march openly in war, and 2) the faithful deserve the spoils of war. Akhmelere preaches that Cyric’s fortune overflows to his most loyal followers. Private ownership of wealth is therefore a reflection of the magnificence of service to Cyric--indeed, proof of it.
Because of this heresy The Mountain of Skulls's Watchful Skull Tynnos Argrim is more determined than ever to seek the destruction of this already hated rival temple in the Small Teeth.
Few of Cyric's worshippers have ever had it so good as the Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse's faithful in Esmeltaran. They rule one of the wealthiest cities in all of Faerun, alongside Sythillis' monster races, with the city's Amnian residents as their slaves.
Now, did Cyric actually speak to Akhmelere? Or is Akhmelere simply leading his followers on? If Cyric did speak to Akhmelere, did he say what Akhmelere claims? As we know, Cyric is the Prince of Lies, and he does pit his temples against one another. So it seems likely. But if he is doing so in this case, is Cyric running some deeper agenda? Is a bonafide evolution actualy taking place within the faith, with Akhmelere leading the way? These are sorts of questions the players have to guess at.
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| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 23:48:55
Well in Cyric's case, maybe he's just a really good liar.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 22:04:10
I suppose that if you desire (or need) to tell a lie, and you are desperately hoping it gets believed, it's probably a good idea to send a prayer Cyric's way.
But I have to agree that it's hard to see what's so attractive about his faith that would cause people to become his sincere and devoted followers, but that's long been a cause of wonder regarding many evil deities in the fantasy genre. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 14:43:23
Well I prefer the Avatar Trilogy Cyric.
Cunning, cruel, and motivated by fairly justifiable (in his view) ideas.
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| Marc |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 14:37:34
I don't see how Cyric can be made more interesting, he's a divine madman, unpredictable at all times |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 14:10:48
Okay, throwing out canon then for a bit.
How does one tinker with the CONCEPT of Cyric while improving him?
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| Lemernis |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 12:32:51
That's not far from what a strifeleader is, actually:
"Stirfeleaders are often found supporting rulers with a taste for cruelty and empire-building. They indulge in intrigue in every land so as to spread strife everywhere..." |
| David E |
Posted - 06 Jan 2007 : 09:50:10
I agree that, as Cyric is currently portrayed, it is hard to imagine that a god of largely insane, sociopathic people could be a Greater God. I can see Cyric as a Lesser God, at the most.
However, if Cyric represented "schemers" more than "psychopaths", I could see him being fully deserving of greater godhood. His portfolio seems to suggest that Cyric is the evil counterpoint to Bane, and I think it does such an intresting portfolio a great disservice to simply portray Cyric as an utterly insane. I mean, Murder, Lies, and Illusion - come on!
I think playing up his role as the Prince of Lies would be a great way to make Cyric more interesting. His clerics should not always be protrayed as pathological liars, but people who deliberately and maliciously spread falsehoods. Perhaps a prestige class that focuses on the misleading and corruption of kingly figures could be a good way to start. Call them "Wormtongues" or something (to steal the term/idea from Tolkien). |
