| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Artalis |
Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 05:15:37
I was curious, can anyone explain why the elven ethics is considered Chaotic? I was reading Evermeet Island of Elves and the way Correllon and the rest of the Seldarine conduct themselves seems quite lawful to me.
Bladesingers too, which I have mentioned before follow a strict code are for some reason not required to be Lawful either. Color me puzzled. |
| 5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 17:55:11
I did not really interpret the Seldarine as Lawful. What The Seldarine were doing was, how shall we say... Taking care of business. Just because a race or person is Chaotic does not mean they will live in anarchy. Consider the original Elven settlements, that were scattered and there was no central Heirarchy. Within those individual settlements, there are laws to keep things functioning. Chaotic beings do not live without laws either, as contadictory as that may seem. They have probably just limited the laws. And if they have courts, the elven 'lawyers' or 'judges', would tend to use more emotion and circumstance in thier judgements as compared to LAWFUL COURTS. I do not think the elves would follow the letter of the law. If you made them mad they would probably make a harsher punishment; if they liked you they would make it less. But I am sure the elves realize they have to have some system to run their societies by.
The bladesingers have a code as well. But why should they be Lawful? The Bladesingers have a personal code, but that does not mean they respect laws. I was in the Navy for 4 years. I was stationed on Okinawa Japan, and on our base was the 101st airborne and Greenberet, and Seal Team 16. The SEALS have a personal code they follow. But I do not call them Lawful. They (well some) have no respect for any laws not set forth by the base commanders. I personally know a SEAL who's word is worth garbage, because he doesn't really care about keeping it.
Just because someone has a personal discipline does not make them Lawful. Not a chance. If the case was that Lawful beings were better disciplined, then why not allow Lawful beings to have a bonus on thier Will saves, or spell saves (whatever edition you use). Thier discipline is better, so thier Will saves should be too. Do you think Fat Police Officers have a good personal code of discipline? I think not. Yet they uphold the laws.
There is also the little matter that even though it is a fantasy game, Elves will think like elves. Beyond our comprehension. Perhaps it is impossible to truly rationalize elven behaviour because, (as far as I know) all PLAYERS (not characters) of D&D are human. Therefore it is impossible for us to rationalize the thinking of Elves Dwarves Halflings or Dragons. No matter what, we would put a human taint on things. Just like Star Trek. It is funny that the show has aliens strikingly similar to human in both form and culture. The alien Cultures are usually one aspect of a human culture taken to an extreme. Why can we not think of a truly alien culture? Because we are human. and it may be impossible to conceive of a culture that does not in some way resemble a human culture. Maybe not. It might have to do with the physiology of our brain. Who knows.
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| lowtech |
Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 17:35:20
I disagree, the Elves were chaotic long before their decline. Societies composed of predominately chaotic beings can still be well organised in areas where they choose to impose structure. The chaotic component of their alignment is a reflection of their preference, not the structure of their society. Think of Elves as Libertarians who nonetheless believe organization is instrumental in allowing the exercise of freedom, and who feel an emotional attachment and loyalty to their community. For Elves, laws are simply a means to an end (or a necessary evil) while for Dwarves enlightened laws are partially an end to themselves, as they have a more communitarian outlook. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 14:32:22
Greetings,
Artalis, what you say is very interesting. I admit that I also had similar thoughts about the general ethical conduct of the elven people.
I like to believe that the reason the elves are considered chaotic and not lawful is due in no small measure to the treatment the race as a whole has been dealt by the other races of the Realms throughout their long history. Consider as an example, the dwarves. Rarely are dwarves considered truly lawful because alot of their history has been shaped by forces outside of their control. This is very much the case with the elves as well. Other species have incroached upon their holdings, forcing the elves to abandon their homelands for the serene peace of Evermeet.
The elves cultural slide from the highest race to a race that has for the most part abandoned the Realms would seem to be an indication of their less than ideal and rarely democratic attitudes towards other races.
They once occupied the highest levels of culture and civilisation in Faerun, masters of all the land, much like the dragons before them, but like all great civilisations, their greatness has past, and I believe that this passing has bred a small measure of distrust and lead to the chaotic outlook that you describe.
But these are just my thoughts, I like to believe that there are other reasons for this occurance and would be interested to read what opinions others have.
Thanks all...
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| Aust Grimshadow |
Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 13:40:42
Hmm, I never knew they were considered Chaotic. They seem like one of the most lawful races to me... |
| zemd |
Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 07:58:31
Myabe, it's considerated that their code of honor isn't as important as their reactions. IMO, chaotic alignement also refers to a way of acting. They don't think of the law but of the opportunity of the moment (hard to explain what i mean)
Furthermore, it's one of the race closest to the nature which is chaotic ("by nature"  )
But you'r right for the bladesinger, since you draw my attention on it, i think wird they're not supposed to be Lawful |
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