| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Paj |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 10:20:29
Ok, so. In a game I am currently playing in there are two wizards.
Me (CG Human Wiz 17/Ftr 2) and my brother (NG Human Wiz 19).
After a series of adventures to the Lower Planes our group has fought in the blood war and detroyed a Yugoloth mercenary group (or so we think  ) in their home fortress.
Looting the fortress we found quite a few magical grimoires including a part of that book detailed in Fiendish Codex 1 which details the Abyss ( i forget the name, its that really large tome that was scattered throughout the planes).
Now, my brother is quite interested in Larloch from reading about him on these boards and has decided that his character wants to pay his respects to the great Lich by offering these tomes as a gift.
The problem is that the DM has no idea how to do such a thing as his knowledge of larloch is quite limited.
So, I said I would consult with you guys here for ideas.
Would Larloch simply blast someone attempting to speak with him to ashes and take what he wanted from the smouldering corpse? or would he be willing to meet with the player and have a civilised conversation with him? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 05:31:45
While I have to add my voice to choir of sages recommending a thorough reading of Ed's in-depth replies. I read them myself and can give you a few hints:
Firstly, Larloch probably already knows that your brother's character wants to give him the tome. In fact, Larloch is probably responsible for the tome being acquired by that wizard, albeit indirectly. If you want to really spice things up; the enchantments of the tome disguise the fact that it is really another Netherese wizard magically bound within an already powerful tome. Maybe this Netherese is a rival or potential ally, maybe even a servant-lich who was imprisoned long ago. In any case, giving the tome to Larloch is exactly what his schemes have plotted for. The whole reason for your brother's character knowing he that Larloch is Netherese (which in canon Faerun would never really happen to that character) is because Larloch subtley allowed him to find out. He is testing your brother's character. If he is astute enough to realize the tome does, in fact, contain a bound fragment of another wizard- and if he aids an evil being he is deemed intelligent and evil enough to become a new addition to his cadre of servant-liches.
As for how your DM should handle the encounter he must realize that Larloch will never appear to your brother's character, and he should expect this from the lich. Even the second or fourth 'Larloch' to greet and awe the pc's will be just another puppet manipulated by the master. If for some reason your brother does not hand over the tome or fall to the darkside he will eventually be utterly destroyed by the liches and their plans. Dealing with Larloch is not wise by any means for any reason. If your brother's character is foolish enough to think that a gift can be given of his own accord or that even if by free will the gesture would be noted and then dismissed- then mercy on him.
Below are some helpful tips your dm can use to establish the background of the adventure and hopefully avert your brother's character from falling into Larloch's 'damned-if-you-do. damned-if-you-don't.' trap.
- the way the group reached the outerplanes would be in some way supplied by Larloch without the pc's realizing it.
- the motives of the quest are some how emphasized by Larloch, indirectly.
- the pc's decide to give the tome to Larloch because he has prevented agents of other alternative guardians from contacting the pc's, so it never occurs to them.
- Minions of other evil powers could steal the tome before he has a chance to give it to Larloch's agents. (If you want to twist the plot here you could have the theft occur after the wizard made initial proposition to Larloch and now is indebted to the lich. this makes a whole moral dilemma that the adventurers are openly working for an evil being.)
- Unnerve the wizard by having him not allowed to bring allies when he meets with the servants of Larloch.
- Make it impossible for the wizard to initiate the deal. Cloak the crypt in illusions or move it entirely. This makes the character more powerless and therefore makes him more prone to errors because of stress or frustration.
- The servants of Larloch should be difficult to work with:
Living agents should reak of the grave. They should request meeting in places that could be seen as trespassing and blasphemous... places where there is a risk of being caught or framed. In addition to being horribly creepy and blatantly evil (the open display of evil relics or casual acts of violence towards the innocence), the servants should constantly test the patience of the character. Not only are they sociopathic and ordinarily awkward and difficult to communicate with but they could be undead and be so beyond the realm of the characters motivations and passion that the servants is distant and nearly unintelligable. In fact, the minions could continuously interrupt and aggravate the character, purposefully misconstruing the wizard's statements and instigating the character into rash action or agreements. This doesn't necessarily have the be at the request of Larloch. The minions could realize that the character is a potential candidate for servanthood and see the character as competition for their masters favor. Larloch allows this as a test of the character, silently and with the pretense of uninvolvement allowing the character to show the measure of his patience and resolve.
-The meeting could be interrupted:
Forces of good trying to stop the transfer of an evil item of power could intercede. Or the disrupting force could be evil. Demons eager to reclaim or revenge their stolen property and slain brethren or a rival and jealous fiend could come after the pcs. If the whole thing was planned by Larloch, the demons or whoever could be still in the employ of that lich. The disruption is part of a seemingly endless series of tests in preparation for the character's ascension.
Alternately, the interferrers could be third party evil beings intent on taking the tome for themselves. Or a more extreme event would be that the good agents who assault the group was actually tipped off by the character or one or more of the other pc's in the group! In any event the servants of Larloch could seek retribution against the character, blaming him for the set up, whether or not this was actually the case.
-The 'Larloch' is an impersonator.
The primary lich presented as Larloch should be powerful but obviously not the legendary ultra-lich that Larloch is. When the wizard first meet's with the real "Larloch" build up as much pomp and circumstance as possible. When the character finds out that this is a fake version (which he should if he is worth his weight in wizard levels), he will be more surprised seeing as the lich in front of him is extremely powerful already. If done correctly the player should be dissapointed at having been duped again into meeting with a henchman rather than the real Larloch.
-Even the imposter 'Larloch's' should be intimidating.
As mentioned before, build up the events and drama permeating the encounter.
By the second or fourth encounter with a fake 'Larloch' a player and character should suspect that this is again a dupe. You must allay those suspicions. Never reveal just how many liches serve the great king. If the players believe they have met with all of the liches under his service then the next must obviously be the real Larloch. The DM can furhter suspend disbelief by always outdoing the last presentation with lots of frivolous passwords and rites before the meeting. This authenticates the sense of legend that the servant lich must bear. One thing that's important to note is that while they are servants of the lich they are powerful beings in their own right, regardless of whether or not their conciousnesses are superceded by commands from the Lich King. One way to show this is to make the character (while being a 19th lvl wizard) feel victimized by the liches. He should be stripped of any confidence whihc will hopefully deter him from trying to further the communication, even thought at this point it may be to late (that can also add to the story by having event further spiral out of control as a consequence of trying to invoke the esteem of an epic villain). The DM can do this by revealing the fact that the minions are always casting spells under their breaths even in the midst of conversation or in the routine motions of dialogue. While the spells effects may be unevoked and disrupted right before they finish, it should be subtle but apparent that there were countless contingencies and battle plans brimming in the minds of these beings. When first introduced the character should feel his magical enchantments, spell-matrices and abjurative defenses being immediately bypassed and dismantled while the "Larloch" being is seemingly engaged in introducing himself. If the character panics not only does the opponent have vast layers of back-up plans (for instance illusions simulacrums and clones all activating while teleporting away and retreating to safety) but the beign should command enough magic to simultaneously negate and foil all the spells the wizard might try and cast. It should be perfectly clear to the character that offense is swiftly met with inevitable and utter destruction. The character should feel as though he can never get a spell or word in edge-wise despite the arrogance a character has in attempting to flirt with the undead lord. In a sense the superior magics of the liches should make the character eventually rely on his physical strengths and raw intuition and he should eventually have no alternative to submitting to the will of his new dark master.
All in all:
I think the purpose of this situation should be to remove such a corrupt artifact from the hands of good [benevolent] wizards who otherwise are tempted by evils... this is good for the future of your party!
The different directions the DM takes this and the different ways the characters react should allow endless integration into realy any campaign or in any direction that the DM wishes to take the plot.
The purpose should also be to put fear and hubris back into the characters and remind the players to respect the legendary figures in the realms. In fact, one of the mottos of the realms is "remember there's always someone more powerful than you"- even if you are a near-epic level wizard.
I hope this helps!
-beirn
EDIT: heavily edited to improve clarity and contain more helpful hints. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 00:52:07
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Ed has discussed Larloch more then once in his replies. Do a search/find for his name in my Table of Contents/Index that is in my sig. :)
Ed was also generous enough to provide some significant tidbits about Warlock's Crypt with some of those Larloch replies.
They're worthwhile reading, along with the aforementioned Larloch replies... given the focus of Paj's campaign.
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 21:39:01
>>What I really want to know is how the character in question would approach Larloch without >>getting a greeting from the 60+ liches and other undead blasting him to atoms.
>>For example, would he just approach the entrance to the Warlocks Crypt and shout, "Lord >>Larloch, I bring thee a gift" in order to get noticed? or would he have to blast his way in >>past the servitors until Larloch sent a lich after him and then beg said Lich for an >>audience?
I don't think Larloch would be interested in sending a lich to arrange an audience. I think it more likely that Larloch would send several liches to simply destroy the upstart and take what he has. He seems the kind to respect power, and showing up to beg for his patronship is just begging to make yourself a target. Szass Tam treads on thin ground even working with the man, but because it would probably be more cumbersome to destroy him than work with him... Tam is allowed his continued existence. |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 21:06:54
Excellent suggestion Kuje! |
| Kuje |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 17:20:31
Ed has discussed Larloch more then once in his replies. Do a search/find for his name in my Table of Contents/Index that is in my sig. :) |
| Paj |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 14:59:23
Well, the Mages already know that Larloch exists and that he's from Netheril. But i like the idea of using Raugilath to communicate with the party, especially as, per Ed's candlekeep replies:
quote:
Back to Elf_Friend again: “What could a high level character do for him to sit up and take notice?”
Ahem: any adventurer who’s reached “high level” has ALREADY come to Larloch’s notice, and is being watched (from time to time) by Larloch’s spies (most of whom, if they’re not undead, are unwitting spies). Any expressed desire to contact Larloch, best or destroy Larloch, or work with Larloch will cause him to notice. Please note, from all I’ve said above: “notice” does NOT mean send legions of undead to destroy the ‘impudent’ PC, or show up personally in a rage to destroy said PC and thereby step into the players’ elaborately-arranged trap. It means Larloch watches the PC more closely, and tries to manipulate them in small, subtle ways to see what happens.
Going by the above quote the party could have gained the attention of Larloch at least in passing.
And Victor, we dont really know what knowledge Larloch has or is looking for. All we really now is that he is after as much magic and magical lore as he can possibly acquire. Pages from a Grimoire detailing the very makeup of the Abyss and the Demons could be of use to him. Maybe not, but he may have an interest in it nontheless.
quote:
Larloch : “All who have visited me in the past have been destroyed, regardless of their allegiance.”
we dont know that Larloch himself destroyed them though. He could mean that they were destroyed by others because they spoke to Larloch or that they died of old age. - Its a long shot admitedly but like almost everything in the realms, what a person says may not be the complete truth.
Finally, the party are not stupid. We know when to run like hell and when to stay down and hope the bad guys think we're dead. Its not like the party has been going around shouting out challenges to the most powerful beings in the planes. In fact, the thing about Larloch arose from a discussion of what to do with the pages we found. Quite frankly we're terrified about what may be after them and a discussion of what to do with them led to either Larloch or Candlekeep, and finally agreed that Larloch would probably be a better choice. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 13:30:27
Fist i think the knowledge you pc have, isent in eny intrest to Larloch. I think he has the knowledge. Send the PC to candelkeep.
I am a DM, and if eny of my players thinks he just can go to Larloch, and say hi i have a present for u, they are dead.
Larloch : “All who have visited me in the past have been destroyed, regardless of their allegiance.”
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 13:27:13
Well, I would think that the first hurdle would be know that Larloch exists. At best he is a legendary creature to most, and long forgotten, as evidenced by the fact that "Larloch's Crypt" is known as "Warlock's Crypt" because people have forgotten the connection to the lich himself.
Once you get past this, the most likely way to peacefully contact him, I would think, is through Raugilath the Ageless, the archlich that Larloch keeps "chained up" writing the history of Netheril and sending books to Candlekeep about it.
In fact, Raugilath is occaisionally allowed by Larloch to use a dream spell to contact the outside world to impart Netherese lore to those that he has scryed. Its possible that the PCs could be scryed, and if they do know of Larloch and are interested in meeting him, the contact might be made in this way.
Raugilath is on page 102 of Lost Empires of Faerun for anyone that is interested in him. |
| Paj |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 13:14:20
I know enough about Larloch myself, and have oompiled a short document about him from threads here at Candlekeep.
What I really want to know is how the character in question would approach Larloch without getting a greeting from the 60+ liches and other undead blasting him to atoms.
For example, would he just approach the entrance to the Warlocks Crypt and shout, "Lord Larloch, I bring thee a gift" in order to get noticed? or would he have to blast his way in past the servitors until Larloch sent a lich after him and then beg said Lich for an audience? |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 12:30:27
Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast has a section on the Warlock's Crypt.
I think Larloch's writeup in Lords of Darkness gives a tiny description |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 11:35:40
Okay i understand thanks for the info Wooly Rupert. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 11:30:32
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
This is taken from http://www.wizards.com/ a long time ago. Hope its okay to post things
from Wizards.com here. This is open free knowledge, taken from "Excerpts".
Yup, it's fine to post things from there. It's just that free or not, it remains the intellectual property of Wizards, and thus needs to be properly credited. We're just making sure our backsides stay covered.  |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 11:17:10
This is taken from http://www.wizards.com/ a long time ago. Hope its okay to post things
from Wizards.com here. This is open free knowledge, taken from "Excerpts". |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 11:10:44
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
this is from oficial material.
And, as such, needs to be properly credited. From section B3 of the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct:
quote:
3. Avoid posting large amounts of text quoted directly from WotC products. If you feel the need to do so, please keep the amount of text to a minimum (a couple of paragraphs at the most) and place the text within the Quote box (use the quote icon on the posting toolbar above the text area), stating the product title and page number from which the text was taken.
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| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 10:39:18
okayyyy if u dont know Larloch plz read below. this is from oficial material.
Szass Tam and Larloch
The dusty corridors of Warlock’s Keep led everywhere and yet nowhere, but Szass Tam knew where he was going. Walking through seemingly solid walls, Thay’s Zulkir of Necromancy felt his body magically whisked away to deeper and darker chambers of the Keep. The lich glanced around the halls as he walked‚ noting the many traps that would have destroyed a mortal form that walked these halls.
“Larloch!” Szass called out, entering an ancient library. “I bring part of the payment that I promised you. Show yourself.”
“Ashrath,” intoned a rumbling voice some distance away. The library slowly illuminated itself in a flickering red glow, casting a fiery light across the assembled tomes. “I’ve been expecting you, Tam,” the voice intoned. “But you’re still three weeks late with payment.”
Szass Tam walked toward the sound of the voice, rounding the end of a bookshelf and strolling nonchalantly toward an ornate golden throne pushed into a corner. Larloch, the ancient lich who hailed from Netheril, sat amidst a clutter of books and braziers.
The Shadow King’s body was in stark contrast to that of Tam. While the Zulkir of Necromancy strove to maintain his human appearance, Larloch was nothing more than a collection of bones partially covered in fine garments. The Netheril lich’s bones were bright white in color, and trails of emerald energy traveled across his form. More than two dozen ioun stones circled his skull, and globes of red light gazed up at Szass Tam as he approached.
“As I expected, we ran into some Harper resistance,” Tam replied, taking a seat opposite the Shadow King. “They weren’t going to give up the mantle without a fight.”
“If they had any inkling of its power‚ they wouldn’t have given it up in death‚ either‚” Larloch grumbled. With a wave of his hand‚ the entire collection of books that lay before him scattered back to their appropriate shelf. His skeletal hand then reached toward Tam. “The mantle?” he asked.
Szass reached into a pouch and pulled from its magical confines a metal vest enveloped in a violet glow. Larloch’s red eyes shimmered briefly for a moment, determining the magic surrounding the mantle to be a form of preservation spell. He then took the vest from Szass and laid it on the table. A moment later‚ Larloch glanced up at Szass Tam. “Why are you still here‚ Tam?” questioned the ancient lich. “This part of your payment is completed.”
“The search for this ancient magic has raised my curiosity,” the Zulkir replied. “I wish to know more about what Netheril really was.”
A long moment of silence descended over the two undead creatures, their gazes locked on one another. If Szass would have had a heart, it would have been racing. Finally, Larloch replied.
“You are both vain and impetuous,” the Shadow King replied. “All who have visited me in the past have been destroyed, regardless of their allegiance.”
“That’s because the others who came before me were inept,” said Szass. “True,” replied Larloch. “You have not failed me,” he intoned. “Not yet.”
Another long moment of silence filled the library. Years could have passed for all either of the undead cared. Time was meaningless. Finally, without warning or preamble, Larloch, the Shadow King, revealed the secret past of Netheril.
Properly credited : Taken form from http://www.wizards.com/ a long time ago, under "Excerpts". |
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