| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Paj |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 12:06:13
So, I recently acquired copies of both the Bloodwar Supplement and Faces of Evil supplement from the Planescape sourcebooks. - fantastic supplements both of them.
However, the books are set in 2e D&D where all the campaign worlds used the Great Wheel cosmology and now that we are in 3e where FR is seperate from the Great Wheel I had some questions about the lore given in those supplement and that given in generic 3e supplements (Monster Manual for one)
here goes:
1) Quoted by The sage in another thread:
quote:
Yes it is. Remember though, this is entirely dependent upon which edition of D&D you are playing in. You see, in 2e, in the PS adventure Squaring the Circle, all fiends lost the ability to teleport and use portal transportation.
The basics of it goes, the yugoloths want to bring the baatezu and tanar'ri into line, and thus begin a plan to eliminate the ability to teleport without error (which was a bigger deal in 2e, since they could cross planes with it) in all but the 'loths and whichever fiend swore fealty to them. What they had done, a long time ago, so long ago that nobody but the 'loths even know any details, was capture and twist a celestial, now known as the Maeldur Et Kavaurik (sp?). I think a baernoloth had a hand in it, and if I recall the adventure reveals one to the PCs...
Anyways, the Maeldur was twisted into a sort of pathfinder, or perhaps a teleport matrix. Through a special device, the 'loths would speak names of all the yugoloths, baatezu, and tanar'ri, and anyone who the Maeldur knew the name of would gain the ability to teleport without error. It wasn't exactly casting the spell, but making a sort of mental call for aid to which the Maeldur responded, sending the fiend on the trip. In fact, anyone could gain the teleport without error ability if the Maeldur knew their name.
So, the 'loths want to get rid of this power in other fiends. I don't know all the details, but what it boils down to is the PCs somehow learn about the Maeldur and the power it gives, and end up (in what they believe is an effort to cripple the fiends forever) dumping the Maeldur in the Styx. The most likely ending to the adventure seems to be the 'loths grab the Maeldur back, though, and begin telling it their own names and those of any fiends who swear fealty to them...
I'm not sure how possible or probable it is to get the Maeldur away from all the fiends forever, though I expect it's something like getting it to Celestia or some other Upper Plane, eliminating its memory of all these names, and hopefully someday turning it back into a celestial -- which seems unlikely for the poor thing, though who knows what may happen. One could always expect some near-fallen celestial to instead begin convincing others to teach the Maeldur celestial names instead of fiendish ones.
In 3e however, the fiends teleport without error ability has the same effects as the spell, but only if you want it to. Otherwise, just change the ruling on the spell when fiends are involved in your games...
Now, Sage, states that its up to the DM whether or not the Fiends have lost the ability to teleport and I can accept that that is enough for some players. But what im really after is the official word whether, in 3e Forgotten Realms Canon Lore, the fiends indeed have or have not lost this ability due to the circumstances detailed in 'Squaring the Circle'. Can anyone point me to a source book which details this or should I assume that because they have the ability in the MM the results of Squaring the Circle never took place?
2: Now that FR no longer has the Grey Wastes or Carceri (at least as far as has been currently detailed) and the Yugoloths now come from the Barrens of Doom and Despair, where would the towers of the Yugoloths go?
Obviously, the Khin-Oin is on the highest peak in the barrens. Kexxon the Oinoloth presumably rules from it. But what about the Tower of Incarnate Pain and the Tower of the Arcanoloths? Logic would suggest one of these goes in the Blood rift, but what about the third? Any official lore for FR which locates these towers? or is it unknown as of yet?
3: Who is Kexxon? Besides the little we are told of him in the WotSQ series I cant find much info on him. From my Planescape products the current Oinoloth wasnt Kexxon but some other guy whose name I cant quite remember. Someone who deposed Anthraxus from the position.
4: Besides the three Nycaloths in the weeping war, are there any other Yugoloths who are known to have plots in motion/ interact regularly with Faerun itself?
5: I recall that a while ago there was some confusion regarding what happens when a fiend is killed on Faerun or any other plane that isnt its home (Abyss, Baator etc). Whats the current official 3e ruling on fiends being killed on Faerun? 100 years banishment? or True Death?
Thanks in advance, Paj |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Marc |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 13:29:16
quote:
I've also wondered about some of these questions, it seems that Kexxon is the ''former'' General of Gehenna now Archgeneral of the Blood Rift and the Oinoloth of Steel Keep at the same time, below it is Inthricis (Anthraxus, and is called the Fifth?) and below it is Bubonis of Obsidian Tower (Bubonix). First arcanaloth is called Nissvim, not Helekanalaith.
It's from Resurrection (Book Six of Spider Queen series). |
| warlockco |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 09:13:51
Umm, you're quoting Sage not me.
As to the book that Kuje is referring to, it is: Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss |
| Paj |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 09:04:47
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The new Abyss sourcebook changed that btw. :) They don't die final death on the Prime and it changed it back to how it used to be. :)
Interesting Kuje, whats the full name of this sourcebook? I must have it!
quote:
I've also wondered about some of these questions, it seems that Kexxon is the ''former'' General of Gehenna now Archgeneral of the Blood Rift and the Oinoloth of Steel Keep at the same time, below it is Inthricis (Anthraxus, and is called the Fifth?) and below it is Bubonis of Obsidian Tower (Bubonix). First arcanaloth is called Nissvim, not Helekanalaith.
Where did you get this info, Warlockco?
quote:
I believe that For Duty and Deity mentions that the events from the Planescape material also took place in FR and since that is a FR module, even though it's a 2e FR module, which makes it a part of the Wheel/Ring, it should be useable.
However, I recall that most of the 3e lore, like Richard Baker's Last Mythal novels, show that the fiends can teleport.
Which can mean one of two things. 1) The fiends have all pledged alleigence to the Yugoloths. or 2) They have found another method of instant travel.
I dont know which one would scare my players more 
Thanks for all the replies so far guys! |
| warlockco |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 07:29:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The new Abyss sourcebook changed that btw. :) They don't die final death on the Prime and it changed it back to how it used to be. :)
Ah excellent, I have that book, just haven't done much with it other than a quick once through. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 23:36:10
The new Abyss sourcebook changed that btw. :) They don't die final death on the Prime and it changed it back to how it used to be. :) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 17:54:52
quote:
Originally posted by Maruluthu Mistrivvin
So what happens now with their souls when they die, final death or neverending circle of spawning?
I believe final death with 3E. |
| Marc |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 13:52:23
So what happens now with their souls when they die, final death or neverending circle of spawning? |
| warlockco |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 10:56:09
quote:
Originally posted by Maruluthu Mistrivvin
Yes I remember though I was not sure if they changed something in 3E.
They did, but I think alot of us "Oldtimers" are ignoring it.
In 3E all Outsiders are effectively "Mortal" now.
The way I work it in 3E, all the Outsiders that were "Immortal" before still are, and anything else that is comparable in powerlevel to them are too, along with some Advanced members of lesser outsiders. |
| Marc |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 09:07:43
Yes I remember though I was not sure if they changed something in 3E. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 23:56:53
quote:
Originally posted by Maruluthu Mistrivvin
I've also wondered about some of these questions, it seems that Kexxon is the ''former'' General of Gehenna now Archgeneral of the Blood Rift and the Oinoloth of Steel Keep at the same time, below it is Inthricis (Anthraxus, and is called the Fifth?) and below it is Bubonis of Obsidian Tower (Bubonix). First arcanaloth is called Nissvim, not Helekanalaith.
4) I remember there was an arcanaloth Khan Kertep as a leader of the horde in Swords of Iron Legion. And Malkizid. Other than that there aren't any official loths.
5) I think it's 100 years of banishment check Champions of Ruin part with epic evils
Also I thought tha Maeldur et Kavurik, fallen solar was an altraloth (hags transformed him)
5) It should be 100 Years, remember Erttu threatened Drizzt with coming back in 100 years after his first defeat. That is until some fool of a wizard summoned him back earlier... |
| Marc |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 20:59:11
I've also wondered about some of these questions, it seems that Kexxon is the ''former'' General of Gehenna now Archgeneral of the Blood Rift and the Oinoloth of Steel Keep at the same time, below it is Inthricis (Anthraxus, and is called the Fifth?) and below it is Bubonis of Obsidian Tower (Bubonix). First arcanaloth is called Nissvim, not Helekanalaith.
4) I remember there was an arcanaloth Khan Kertep as a leader of the horde in Swords of Iron Legion. And Malkizid. Other than that there aren't any official loths.
5) I think it's 100 years of banishment check Champions of Ruin part with epic evils
Also I thought tha Maeldur et Kavurik, fallen solar was an altraloth (hags transformed him) |
| Kuje |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 17:00:40
I believe that For Duty and Deity mentions that the events from the Planescape material also took place in FR and since that is a FR module, even though it's a 2e FR module, which makes it a part of the Wheel/Ring, it should be useable.
However, I recall that most of the 3e lore, like Richard Baker's Last Mythal novels, show that the fiends can teleport.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 14:10:11
quote:
Originally posted by Paj
2: Now that FR no longer has the Grey Wastes or Carceri (at least as far as has been currently detailed) and the Yugoloths now come from the Barrens of Doom and Despair, where would the towers of the Yugoloths go?
Obviously, the Khin-Oin is on the highest peak in the barrens. Kexxon the Oinoloth presumably rules from it. But what about the Tower of Incarnate Pain and the Tower of the Arcanoloths? Logic would suggest one of these goes in the Blood rift, but what about the third? Any official lore for FR which locates these towers? or is it unknown as of yet?
It's largely unknown. Remember... The listings of the planes in 3e aren't supposed to be complete. There's still plenty to be covered concerning the individual outer planes that comprise the new Great Tree cosmology. As such... particular detailed regions in 2e as Khin-Oin and other locales of 'loth importance have yet to be properly placed or referenced, if they are to be, in 3e FR.
quote:
3: Who is Kexxon? Besides the little we are told of him in the WotSQ series I cant find much info on him. From my Planescape products the current Oinoloth wasnt Kexxon but some other guy whose name I cant quite remember. Someone who deposed Anthraxus from the position.
Kexxon in the WotSQ is, essentially, the 3e Realms incongruous combination of such planar entities as the General of Gehenna, mixed and co-mingled potentially with Mydianchlarus the Oinoloth to form a single character, since the 3e FR plane of 'Blood Rift' is a mishmash of Gehenna and the Gray Waste in some ways.
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