| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| rafa42 |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 10:33:06
Hi,I have a qestion which bugs me some time,in book in greyhawk world I don t know its english name it is like "qeen of spiders deep"(translating from polish)Lolth was killed and I wonder which year was that in forgotten realms calendar, in greyhawk it was 500 or 600 more less
thx
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| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zanan |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 22:10:47
Lolth is and was always Lolth. To my knowledge (and I think Elaine Cunningham verified this) Lloth is actually a misspelling of the name, done by the creator of Drizzt. Whether on purpose or not, I don't know. Canon has it now that Lloth is a variant spelling of the name in some (i.e. one = Menzo) cities of the Northdark, as written in Demihuman Deities. Most authors these days use the original name though, as has been done throughout the War of the Spider Queen novels, actually with the agreement of R.A.S..
BTW, maybe the latter had his Welsh holidays, as the name of the panther is clearly Welsh as well, as it is just an alias - or rather one Welsh version - of the name of the wife of King Arthur.
EDIT: The Underdark sourcebook also uses Lolth for any reference to the Dark Mother. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 19:41:14
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Isn't Loth's named actually spelled differently in the different realms? (I thought I read one as Loth and another as Lolth or some such, but i cannot remember and no books on hand at the moment).
In Menzoberranzan, she is sometimes called Lloth. I know I first saw that in the RAS novels, but I'm not sure if he created that variant spelling or not, or if it was even deliberate. |
| Chyron |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 18:50:23
Isn't Loth's named actually spelled differently in the different realms? (I thought I read one as Loth and another as Lolth or some such, but i cannot remember and no books on hand at the moment).
I think for me part of the problem with Greyhawk was it did not have the same 'feel' as the realms did. The original gray box had better art, maps, and printing than did the first Greyhawk box set. Of course the media that followed, like the Curse of the Azure Bonds and the gold box Pool of Radiance games further enhanced that feel for me as did the Icewind Dale novels.
Though I was nostalgic about Greyhawk, I never saw the same level of quality or continuity that I found in the realms material. I also read the Greyhawk novel series. While i did like them, the sort of 'off the cuff' humor and modern wit of The Justicar and his farie companion made Greyhawk seem like a spoof (a bit like the old Wizards and Warriors TV show in the 80s). It was entertaining but it just felt less that real...I found this to be the same with other Greyhawk products (like the module Gargoyle) where there was just too much tounge n cheek for my taste. Of course that is only my opinion. :) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 02:22:11
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And Castle Ravenloft comes out later this year as a sourcebook
I'm interested in that one, myself... Though I have the old I6 module (I think it's the original, too, but I'd have to check), I've never run it. I've heard it's a good one, though.
It is the original and it's one I don't own. :( But I'll grab the new Ravenloft sourcebook also since I run games in the whole multiverse. :)
Anyhow, this is getting way off topic....
<waves I6 at Kuje then runs off>  |
| Kuje |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 18:12:12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And Castle Ravenloft comes out later this year as a sourcebook
I'm interested in that one, myself... Though I have the old I6 module (I think it's the original, too, but I'd have to check), I've never run it. I've heard it's a good one, though.
It is the original and it's one I don't own. :( But I'll grab the new Ravenloft sourcebook also since I run games in the whole multiverse. :)
Anyhow, this is getting way off topic.... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 17:59:29
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And Castle Ravenloft comes out later this year as a sourcebook
I'm interested in that one, myself... Though I have the old I6 module (I think it's the original, too, but I'd have to check), I've never run it. I've heard it's a good one, though. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 17:44:53
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No. WotC have got a hold of it again now that S&S have given up producing products for the line.
And Castle Ravenloft comes out later this year as a sourcebook and WOTC has two of the old novels in the line up to be reprinted. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 17:22:06
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Dunno, but isn't Ravenloft in the hands of Sword & Sorcerey nowadays?
My point was that inactivity of a property doesn't make the property become up for grabs. For someone else to use it, they've either got to license or buy the property from whoever holds it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 13:50:04
No. WotC have got a hold of it again now that S&S have given up producing products for the line.
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| Zanan |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 12:53:32
Dunno, but isn't Ravenloft in the hands of Sword & Sorcerey nowadays? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 11:09:55
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by darkflame millithor
I don't know why The Wizards chose Greyhawk as the core game world anyway.
I personally suspect that they did that to get Gary Gygax to return to the fold. I'm not terribly knowledgable on the whole issue, but I understand he had basically been pushed out of TSR. I think that making his world the default one was part of the deal to get him back on their side.
I could be wrong, of course, and I've got no data to back it up. It's just my personal suspicion.
Or it could have been a way to keep the copyrights and licenses in house.
After all if it is the "core" setting then no one else can do anything with it. As opposed to how Ravenloft, Dragonlance got handed out (Though Ravenloft is back with the printing of Heroes of Horror from what I hear).
No, I don't think that's it. The intellectual property would have been part of the sale, when WotC bought out TSR. So all of the settings became theirs to do with as they will. No one else could legally do a thing with them, unless WotC allowed them to. There isn't a "use it or lose it" policy in publishing. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 09:16:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by darkflame millithor
I don't know why The Wizards chose Greyhawk as the core game world anyway.
I personally suspect that they did that to get Gary Gygax to return to the fold. I'm not terribly knowledgable on the whole issue, but I understand he had basically been pushed out of TSR. I think that making his world the default one was part of the deal to get him back on their side.
I could be wrong, of course, and I've got no data to back it up. It's just my personal suspicion.
Or it could have been a way to keep the copyrights and licenses in house.
After all if it is the "core" setting then no one else can do anything with it. As opposed to how Ravenloft, Dragonlance got handed out (Though Ravenloft is back with the printing of Heroes of Horror from what I hear). |
| Zanan |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 08:38:14
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As for Lolth, if it weren't for Greyhawk and the Queen of the Demon Web Pits adventure, we wouldn't have had the basis for the drow and the Underdark structure that RAS imported to the Realms (though I have to give him a lot of credit for personalizing and expanding on a lot of that information in his work. To date, the Dark Elf trilogy seems some of his more complex and deep Realms work).
A little correction here ... they were not exactly imported into the FR by RAS according to my sources (given by some designer):
1977: Drow mentioned as legend in the Monster Manual.
1978: First appearance in Gary Gygax's modules G3 Hall of the Fire Giant King, D1 Descent into the Depths of the Earth, D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa, and D3 Vault of the Drow, which presents the drow city of Erelhei-Cinlu.
1985: Unearthed Arcana presents drow as a PC race.
1986, 1987: Drow appear in Gary Gygax's novels Artifact of Evil and Sea of Death.
1987: Drow feature in the original Forgotten Realms Campaign Set. They were probably introduced into Ed Greenwood's campaign and world soon after their original 1978 publication.
1988: R.A. Salvatore's novel The Crystal Shard, first of the Icewind Dale trilogy, introduces Drizzt Do'Urden.
1990-1: R.A. Salvatore's Dark Elf trilogy published.
1991: Ed Greenwood's FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark consolidates drow lore to date.
1992: RAS - Menzoberranzan boxed set
... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 05:50:35
quote:
Originally posted by darkflame millithor
I don't know why The Wizards chose Greyhawk as the core game world anyway.
I personally suspect that they did that to get Gary Gygax to return to the fold. I'm not terribly knowledgable on the whole issue, but I understand he had basically been pushed out of TSR. I think that making his world the default one was part of the deal to get him back on their side.
I could be wrong, of course, and I've got no data to back it up. It's just my personal suspicion. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 04:38:59
Dispite many comments from Greyhawk afficianados that often cause me to want to bang my head against a brick wall, I will always have a certain affinity for Greyhawk, since its the first world I played in as a player (I DMed for years before anyone picked up DMing chores). I have always viewed it as the sister setting to the Forgotten Realms, so personally, I have no problem with it being the default setting, and one of the things I made sure to pick up when I jumped back into 3rd edition D&D was the Living Greyhawk Gazateer.
Heck, if you read the latest Dragon, you get to see El and Mordenkainen continue thier (generally) cordial relationship. Though I was still waiting on El to comment on Mordenkainen's newly (from his point of view) shaved head, or for Mordenkainen to mention El's lack of a certain hat (though he likely has been able to procure another one at some point in time now).
As for Lolth, if it weren't for Greyhawk and the Queen of the Demon Web Pits adventure, we wouldn't have had the basis for the drow and the Underdark structure that RAS imported to the Realms (though I have to give him a lot of credit for personalizing and expanding on a lot of that information in his work. To date, the Dark Elf trilogy seems some of his more complex and deep Realms work). |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 04:27:55
quote:
Originally posted by darkflame millithor
I don't know why The Wizards chose Greyhawk as the core game world anyway.
GH was a part of D&D long before there was a published FORGOTTEN REALMS. Though the Realms has existed with Ed since 1967, it wasn't until 1987 that the Realms was brought together with D&D and made into a published campaign setting for TSR.
The The World of Greyhawk folio published in 1980 predates the FR as a published setting and thus, it is where the world of GH began its long road toward becoming the mainstay of TSR and the D&D game. That trend continued when WotC took over from TSR.
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| darkflame millithor |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 04:12:34
The book was funny!It was gory! It was spellbinding! I'm glade Lolth can't be wiped out that easily.She will return to Oerth Like she always returns. I don't know why The Wizards chose Greyhawk as the core game world anyway. F/R is more adaptable,and maybe more popular too! The dullards chose the wrong world! Now we have to adapt the darn ready-made adventures just to play them in our world. |
| Eremite |
Posted - 14 May 2006 : 18:44:41
The book was Queen of the Demonweb Pits. It was written to be slightly comedic/funny and was set in Greyhawk. I like the writer a lot, I must admit.
The events of the book are not official for Greyhawk and, as has been pointed out by previous posters, are not official for the Forgotten Realms either. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 May 2006 : 16:33:36
According to the "always been" nature of the 3e FR Great Tree cosmology, yes.
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| rafa42 |
Posted - 14 May 2006 : 16:28:55
I read it thanks,this is strange,so Forgotten Realms has nothing to do with greyhawk,I frefered old way |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 16:59:58
Indeed.
rafa42... take a moment to read through Section D.1 of the Forum Code of Conduct (see the URL in my sig) for details on the split cosmologies issue. It should help you to better understand this point about Lolth.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 16:54:05
Those events in that novel aren't canon for Greyhawk and they never happened in FR, especially now that the cosmologies have been split since the Lloth of Greyhawk isn't the same Lloth of FR. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 14:42:26
I don't know the answer off the top of my head, but it might be something you can find on A Temporal Chronology of the Primes, by our own Brian R James. |
