| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ferratus |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:01:49
Where did Shaundukal originate? I realize he was popular in Myth Drannor, but where did he come from before that? Was he a diefied human? A minor god of Netheril who came into his own later? The latter was a theory of mine, given that Besheba apparently chose him to deceive the Bedine. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tauster |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 13:10:34
quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Shaundukal is a very interesting deity, one of my personal favourites.
dito, mine too. 
one of my players plays a windwalker (speciality priest, see faiths & avatars), so i have some insight in that faith...
imho, there are several things that make shaundakul so darn interesting:
- he is a local deity: F&A states that his faithful are found mostly throughout the moonsea north (where they "have constructed numerous shrines" ...so when you play in that particular area => lots of interesting sites => instant adventure hook!
- ...nontheless the clergy can be found all ofer faerun since they are wanderers by definition. every caravan might have a follower among the professional caravaneers(sp?).
- shaundakul was an intermediate deity before the ToT and now is only a "lesser power bordered on demipower status", but "one of the fastest growing faiths". => lots of opportunities for reclaiming this old relgious artifact or that prayer book, not to mention "freeing/recovering this or that old shrine" etc...
- his clergy is said to "number several hundred" members, which is really not very much compared to other faiths. => any pc cleric of shaundakul who rises to 10 levels or higher is bound to play an important role within the faith. => LOTS of opportunities for great roleplaying!
- the main center of worship is Shaundakuls Throne in Myth Drannor, which is "often guarded by the avatar(!) of the god". combined with the low number of his clergy, a midlevel priest has a far higher probability of meeting his god personallythan priests of other faiths. ...moreover, (s)he's meeting him in Myth Drannor. now how cool is that? 
- once every year, speciality priests do the "windwalk", a ritual that turns them into gaseous form to become adrift on the winds, sending them wherever the dm wants. ...do I have to say more? 
I decided to include a side encounter that involved the players windrider in waukeens rescue (see the 2E adventure "for duty and deity" for details) by letting him fight a few demons on the infinite staircase. he was told that this would be a distraction, while others will try to free the goddess. the servant of shaundakul who asked him with a grim voice "if he was ready to serve his god" stressed the point that his part would a vital one in the complex rescue plan, and during the battle another faithful appeared and willingly gave his live in service for their god.
the whole encounter was one of the best fights (multiple staircases (slippery, because made of ice)crisscrossing each other are one heck of a cool battle-terrain!), and one of the most intense roleplaying we ever had.
afterwards, the player was summoned to shaundakuls throne in myth drannor, where he met the highest ranking and most important members of his faith (appr. 30 people) for the first time in his life (which put him in the same situation as most of them). the gods avatar explained what exactly just had happened and took them all with him to the marketplace eternal (waukeens realm), where the merchants friend was given back her divinity from liira (again, see the end of "for duty and deity" for details). now, the players priest is a hero among the high-up's of his faith (to which he too belongs since that time), his tale slowly trickling down to the lower priests, and will finally spread among other religions in time.
the longterm aim of the whole encounter was to solve the problem that shaundakul might have been weakened even more (and thus, changed into a demigod) after waukeen returned. but instead, he became one of her closest allies and due to his vital role in her rescue, he was awarded the portal domain (which ruleswise he would have gotten anyways in 3rd edition).
...speaking of which: the portal domain is one more cool thing about shaundakul. especially when you let the priests work hard for all the new spells! the harder they have to work for that, the cooler every new spell or spell-like ability will be for players. plus, it's a great opportunity to get them rid of excess coins! 
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| Gerath Hoan |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 10:28:48
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Shaundakul is a very ancient deity. He goes back a lot farther than Myth Drannor. He was part of the ancient Rus pantheon, the progenitors of the Rashemi people. In fact, while the Rus may have worshipped many other gods, he is the only one I know of (other than Dendar the Night Serpent whom the Rus called Nidhogg) who has been named so far.
Where abouts did this reference for Shaundakul's origins come from? It does sound familiar to me, but I can't remember where I've read it.
GH |
| Dhomal |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 08:32:36
Hello-
Its interesting that this comes up now! I am in the middle of reading through any reference to Shaundakul I can find - taking notes and planning and plotting!
Of the mentioned points - I find it curious that he had a 'dalliance' with Tymora - but what of that? Might there have been a child? Curious I am! LOL
But suffice it to say that I'm working on a Project involving Shaundakul! Likely later this weekend or next week I will be asking some specific questions that some of you may be able to help me with.
Take care - and may the winds be always at your back!
Dhomal |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 06:07:45
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
You see, I've long thought that people have become way too hung up on the sentence "presaged the fall of Myth Drannor". The definition of presage does not in any way indicate immediacy. In fact, the archaic usage of the word meant "prediction" (ala Nostradamus-type stuff). Therefore, the DC may have 'presaged' the fall of Myth Drannor by centuries. IMHO, this is exactly the case and the event in question (if it must be given a mortal dating) is better placed somewhere between the fall of Netheril and the 1st century of Dalereckoning. But hey, what do I know.
-- George Krashos
We don't even know if Lathander was around, then...
We do know that Tyche split during the DC, and we know when the effects were felt in the Realms (and I'm of the opinion that the two new deities would start changing how they were worshipped almost immediately). Since Myth Drannor fell in the same century, and the DC presaged this fall, then it's quite reasonable to assume that the DC happened between 700 and 712 (or 714). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 06:03:27
The FRCS places the schism in Tyche's church in 8th century DR. That's where that date comes from. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 05:53:59
You see, I've long thought that people have become way too hung up on the sentence "presaged the fall of Myth Drannor". The definition of presage does not in any way indicate immediacy. In fact, the archaic usage of the word meant "prediction" (ala Nostradamus-type stuff). Therefore, the DC may have 'presaged' the fall of Myth Drannor by centuries. IMHO, this is exactly the case and the event in question (if it must be given a mortal dating) is better placed somewhere between the fall of Netheril and the 1st century of Dalereckoning. But hey, what do I know.
-- George Krashos
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| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 04:57:03
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
What we know --
Tyche split into Tymora and Beshaba during the Dawn Cataclysm. This is mentioned in a couple of places... So the Dawn Cataclysm must have happened in 8th Century DR -- from 700 to 799 DR, somewhere in there...
This one has always stumped me. Just where do you get the second sentence from the facts of the first? Curious, is all ...
-- George Krashos
More just random thinking on my part with regard to the Realmslore really -- and something tied to Eric's whole "out of time" theory. As I also mentioned above... we have references to Tyche after the Cataclysm which kind of throws out the above date I mentioned for the time of the Dawn Cataclysm.
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 04:11:03
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
What we know --
Tyche split into Tymora and Beshaba during the Dawn Cataclysm. This is mentioned in a couple of places... So the Dawn Cataclysm must have happened in 8th Century DR -- from 700 to 799 DR, somewhere in there...
This one has always stumped me. Just where do you get the second sentence from the facts of the first? Curious, is all ...
-- George Krashos
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| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 01:35:20
Shaundakul is a very ancient deity. He goes back a lot farther than Myth Drannor. He was part of the ancient Rus pantheon, the progenitors of the Rashemi people. In fact, while the Rus may have worshipped many other gods, he is the only one I know of (other than Dendar the Night Serpent whom the Rus called Nidhogg) who has been named so far.
Other than that we don't know much about Shaundakul. We don't know if he is an ascended human (maybe the first planewalker) or an interloper from elsewhere or a completely native god. He could be one of the many sons and daughters of Selūne mentioned in her myths. His origins are obscured by time, we don't know much else about him. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 00:40:44
You're never going to find a complete history of the Dawn Cataclysm, nor it's total effects. The most we have are bits and pieces scattered throughout the Realmslore. This is mostly due to the fact that writers at TSR/WotC haven't really attached much weight to the event.
What we know --
Tyche split into Tymora and Beshaba during the Dawn Cataclysm. This is mentioned in a couple of places... So the Dawn Cataclysm must have happened in 8th Century DR -- from 700 to 799 DR, somewhere in there...
Interestingly, it's also said that the Dawn Cataclysm presaged the Fall of Myth Drannor. The attacks on the City of Song started in 712, and ended in 714. So that puts the Dawn Cataclysm at the early part of that century.
However, there are references to Tyche AFTER the fall of Myth Drannor (Seven Sisters, p.7), other references link the ascension of Azuth with the Dawn Cataclysm, and Ed himself in a few posts here and there has made it clear that some aspects of the church of Tyche continued to think of themselves in that light even after the split into Tymora and Beshaba.
So unlike Wooly, I think it's far simpler to leave the Dawn Cataclysm in its own godly event category and not try to give it meaning in a temporal sense. Considering it was a conflict between the gods, it may have happened millenia ago as mortals reckon time - its effects taking a very long time to filter through.
Similarly, Eric Boyd has postulated that the Dawn Cataclysm occurred "out of time" in the sense that it could have happened at any point in the mortal timeline, but because of its 'otherworldy'-nature, it happened in the mortal realms at a time that doesn't correspond with our concept of how time works. In other words, godly events can't be dated by mortal means - unless such godly events have a mortal interface (i.e. the Time of Troubles).
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 00:29:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hoo-boy...
 My sentiments exactly.
-- George Krashos
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 23:57:35
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Wooly,
I must be missing some lore. What is the Dawn Cataclysm? Many thanks.
Hoo-boy...
The Dawn Cataclysm is something that happened a long time ago. Wizards has refused to pin down a date for it, and some say that since it happened just to the gods, it doesn't really have a set date -- because time affects gods differently. Me, I don't like that explanation, and I look at the given lore to pin down the date as being somewhere between 700 DR and 714 DR (closer to 700 DR, I would think).
What we do know is that the Dawn Cataclysm presaged the fall of Myth Drannor. We also know it was started by Lathander, who was trying to reshape the pantheon in his image. In the resulting turmoil several deities were destroyed, including Helm's lover Murdane. Also during this time, Moander managed to corrupt the goddess of luck, Tyche. Perceiving the corruption in her friend, Selūne blasted her. Tyche split, forming Tymora and Beshaba.
And that's about all we know. Wizards has treated the Dawn Cataclysm with kind of a hands-off approach for years, only dropping little tidbits here and there. |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 23:11:00
Wooly,
I must be missing some lore. What is the Dawn Cataclysm? Many thanks. |
| Gerath Hoan |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 21:37:17
Shaundukal is a very interesting deity, one of my personal favourites.
Given that he has many shrines scattered around the Moonsea North and the Stonelands and that he was primarily worshipped in Myth Drannor, I'd guess that he belongs to the regional pantheon of one of the ethnic groups of north central Faerun... perhaps the original Chondathon immigrants who came north after the fall of Jhammdath?
GH |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:42:48
He isn't listed as a Netherese deity in the Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set.
Faiths & Avatars has this to say about him:
quote:
Shaundakul (SHAWN-da-kul) the Rider of the Winds, was the god of travel and exploration in old Myth Drannor. His existence may date back to the time of the Rus, forbears of the Rashemaar, or beyond. In the time of Myth Drannor, he was worshiped by humans and half-elves, particularly those who were caravan merchants, traders, explorers, miners and adventurers in the uncharted wilderness of the Moonsea North. He was a keen-eyed guide who pointed out the hidden lodes and ways of the North, and brought luck and battlevalor to worshipers in need.
Shortly after the Dawn Cataclysm, Shaundakul and Tymora had a thing going on. Beshaba was interested in Shaundakul, but he was happy where he was. So she pulled the scorned woman routine -- that's why she's happily making him look bad in the Anauroch, because helping him lose Myth Drannor wasn't enough for her pride.
That's about all we know of his origins, I believe. |
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