| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 06:42:18
Normally I shy away from major characters and focus either on supporting characters or those that have shared the "major" spotlight instead of basking in it, but in this case, Alias has been out of official circulation for a while, so I thought I would throw this into the mix.
Alias has always been an interesting characters, and to me, a pretty good example of how to portray a female character as being tough and seasoned without making her overly agressive or overly emotionally.
Alias started out a little intense, but then again, she was being magically manipulated. She had a big chip on her shoulder about the gods and nobility, and a major attitude, but rather than wallow in that attitude, Alias, once she finds out who she is and how she came to be, realizes that these traits might be faults, and even if she can't completely overcome them, they should at least be examined.
I like the fact that Alias has always had a hard time seeing Finder's faults when they are apparent to others, even Finder's friends like Olive. It definately helped to reinforce the Father/Daughter relationship between them.
While Alias realized her faults in the first book, she started to examine them in the Song of the Saurials, and she didn't really come across as softening so much as becoming more thoughtful. And she became more thoughtful without being too introspective. I also liked the idea that she was hurt by Akabar's marriage to one of the other Alias constructs, even though she didn't have the desire to have a romantic relationship with him. It showed the complex nature of how she would feel toward her sisters, and how she would feel if they crossed over into her life.
I always liked the way that Alias related to Dragonbait, who is one of the best paladins in the Realms novels. While I was innitially worried about knowing for sure what Dragonbait was saying, rather than just "getting the jist of it," I think the relationship actually got stronger, and more amusing, once we were in on what the saurial was saying.
In Masquerades, Alias finds a mother, in Jamal, though she only partially realizes this relationship, and doesn't explore it fully. She also spends enough time in Westgate to truly feel like it was home due to her implanted memories. We got to see Alias burned in love by Victor and actually fall for Mintassan. And really, who didn't think it was great that a woman like Alias would fall for a handsome but excentric and slightly overweight geek . . . er . . . wizard?
Jeff Grubb has said he has probably said all he has to say in the Realms, but if he ever returned, he would like to resolve where the rest of the Alias constructs ended up. But dispite this, there are some interesting things I would love to see Alias tackle.
First is getting to know some of the details of her travels in the Planes with Mintassan, and exactly at what state their relationship is in. While a character like Catti-brie has spoken of wanting a child and family, how would Alias react to settling down and having children. While I don't think that Alias is a "party girl" by any stretch of the imagination, I don't know how she feels about motherhood, and she may need to resolve some issues with Jamal before she knows how she feels herself.
And then there is Westgate itself. Westgate seems to be the Realms Gotham City . . . you can clean it up, but it won't stay that way. I would be interested to see how Alias deals with the new Cormyrean exiles that have set up homes, the resurgance of the Night Masks, and wheather or not the elections happen.
One last thing I liked that showed her character was changing, but not too quickly. Alias was hesitant to trust Durgar of Tyr when she met him, and she was a bit cynical about his judgements, but she seemed to work fairly well with him later on, and she could understand that he really did want what was best, even if she didn't agree with him. It was a great way to show her very slow progression from programming to her natural personality traits.
So, what say my fellow scribes? How did you like the path Alias has taken, and if you were in charge, where would you take Alias? |
| 27 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| froglegg |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 23:24:42
Ok. Thanks Wooly.
John |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 21:51:54
quote:
Originally posted by froglegg
Any body know if Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak had a falling out with WOTC? Or does WOTC think that they are not needed or welcome there?
John
I've not heard anything about a falling out... So far as I know, they left for their own reasons.
|
| froglegg |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 17:49:53
Any body know if Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak had a falling out with WOTC? Or does WOTC think that they are not needed or welcome there?
John |
| froglegg |
Posted - 22 Feb 2010 : 01:07:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd love to see more of Alias and her sisters, but I'd be just as happy to see Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak writing anything else in the pre-4E Realms. I rank them among the best of the Realms authors.
Here!Here! 
John |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Feb 2010 : 23:23:09
I'd love to see more of Alias and her sisters, but I'd be just as happy to see Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak writing anything else in the pre-4E Realms. I rank them among the best of the Realms authors. |
| froglegg |
Posted - 14 Feb 2010 : 21:52:30
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Normally I shy away from major characters and focus either on supporting characters or those that have shared the "major" spotlight instead of basking in it, but in this case, Alias has been out of official circulation for a while, so I thought I would throw this into the mix.
Alias has always been an interesting characters, and to me, a pretty good example of how to portray a female character as being tough and seasoned without making her overly agressive or overly emotionally.
Alias started out a little intense, but then again, she was being magically manipulated. She had a big chip on her shoulder about the gods and nobility, and a major attitude, but rather than wallow in that attitude, Alias, once she finds out who she is and how she came to be, realizes that these traits might be faults, and even if she can't completely overcome them, they should at least be examined.
I like the fact that Alias has always had a hard time seeing Finder's faults when they are apparent to others, even Finder's friends like Olive. It definately helped to reinforce the Father/Daughter relationship between them.
While Alias realized her faults in the first book, she started to examine them in the Song of the Saurials, and she didn't really come across as softening so much as becoming more thoughtful. And she became more thoughtful without being too introspective. I also liked the idea that she was hurt by Akabar's marriage to one of the other Alias constructs, even though she didn't have the desire to have a romantic relationship with him. It showed the complex nature of how she would feel toward her sisters, and how she would feel if they crossed over into her life.
I always liked the way that Alias related to Dragonbait, who is one of the best paladins in the Realms novels. While I was innitially worried about knowing for sure what Dragonbait was saying, rather than just "getting the jist of it," I think the relationship actually got stronger, and more amusing, once we were in on what the saurial was saying.
In Masquerades, Alias finds a mother, in Jamal, though she only partially realizes this relationship, and doesn't explore it fully. She also spends enough time in Westgate to truly feel like it was home due to her implanted memories. We got to see Alias burned in love by Victor and actually fall for Mintassan. And really, who didn't think it was great that a woman like Alias would fall for a handsome but excentric and slightly overweight geek . . . er . . . wizard?
Jeff Grubb has said he has probably said all he has to say in the Realms, but if he ever returned, he would like to resolve where the rest of the Alias constructs ended up. But dispite this, there are some interesting things I would love to see Alias tackle.
First is getting to know some of the details of her travels in the Planes with Mintassan, and exactly at what state their relationship is in. While a character like Catti-brie has spoken of wanting a child and family, how would Alias react to settling down and having children. While I don't think that Alias is a "party girl" by any stretch of the imagination, I don't know how she feels about motherhood, and she may need to resolve some issues with Jamal before she knows how she feels herself.
And then there is Westgate itself. Westgate seems to be the Realms Gotham City . . . you can clean it up, but it won't stay that way. I would be interested to see how Alias deals with the new Cormyrean exiles that have set up homes, the resurgance of the Night Masks, and wheather or not the elections happen.
One last thing I liked that showed her character was changing, but not too quickly. Alias was hesitant to trust Durgar of Tyr when she met him, and she was a bit cynical about his judgements, but she seemed to work fairly well with him later on, and she could understand that he really did want what was best, even if she didn't agree with him. It was a great way to show her very slow progression from programming to her natural personality traits.
So, what say my fellow scribes? How did you like the path Alias has taken, and if you were in charge, where would you take Alias?
I like the path Alias is on and if I were in charge there would be as many Alias and Dragonbait books as there is of that over glorified drow ranger. 
John |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 23:42:05
Thanks to folks for suggesting my Alias template, but its definitely not official (nor is anything in the bestiaries -- though Eric has ported a couple bits into official products). I think its a solid interpretation of what we've seen, but its just that, my interpretation (which I think came out pretty well). As for the alignment issue and as was already mentioned, the books seemed pretty clear that all of them had some of Dragonbait's soul, thus the good requirement, though I have no idea why Grubb and Novak decided to use Dragonbait's soul -- but it sure made for a great story, so I'm not complaining. That said, in your campaign, do whatever you want. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 18:53:48
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
As I wrote, I understand the alignment bit, but wonder why it was done in the first place? You see, we speak of (Finder aside) truly evil chaps creating a vessel for their purpose ... and make it "good"?
Well, Dragonbait's soul was available -- that was prolly the biggest reason. I don't think the makers were really aware that he was a paladin...
Or, maybe they knew, and decided to run with it anyway. Alignment is detectable by magic, and who would expect a good person to be an assassin or someone who was going to bring back an evil god? It's the best camouflage.
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Anyway, a "usually good" would be fine by me, if it ever becomes official stuff - which these "vessel templates" can't, methinks.
Why not? The Bestiaries were done by people with published Realms material to their name. Some of it has become official... I can only see one possible reason for the template to not become official: no plans to revisit the Alias clones. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 18:03:23
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Zanan,
As Foxhelm stated this time last year, all of the Alias clones have a piece of Dragonbaits soul, and he is one of the best Realms portrayals of a virtuous paladin, so i guess that is why they have the good alignment requirement... It would be interesting if one of the clones had an evil alignment, but I am just re-hashing what was said before...
As I wrote, I understand the alignment bit, but wonder why it was done in the first place? You see, we speak of (Finder aside) truly evil chaps creating a vessel for their purpose ... and make it "good"? Anyway, a "usually good" would be fine by me, if it ever becomes official stuff - which these "vessel templates" can't, methinks. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 16:15:54
quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Ironically i would love to see Jeff Grubb return to the realms i want more Finder, more Dragonbait, and would love some more alias. I think it would be awsome to learn more about the surials.
I'd love to see Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak return to the Realms. But I don't see it happening, any time soon...
It may not be what you are wanting, but there was a Serpent Kingdoms web enhancement that covered the saurials: Saurials: More Lizardkin.
|
| VonRaventheDaring |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 15:47:46
Ironically i would love to see Jeff Grubb return to the realms i want more Finder, more Dragonbait, and would love some more alias. I think it would be awsome to learn more about the surials. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 15:18:42
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
On a few sidenotes ... there is a "Alias vessel" - template* over on Eric L. Boyd's site, one of the downloads, and pretty detailed too.
It was recently updated, in the Realms Bestiary, Volume 2. Both of them can be found here. I highly recommend both volumes, as they have a considerable amount of quite useful material.  |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 14:17:34
Zanan,
As Foxhelm stated this time last year, all of the Alias clones have a piece of Dragonbaits soul, and he is one of the best Realms portrayals of a virtuous paladin, so i guess that is why they have the good alignment requirement... It would be interesting if one of the clones had an evil alignment, but I am just re-hashing what was said before... Thank you for that sidenote, I am curious to check out the Alias vessel template... Thanks! |
| Zanan |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 13:18:28
On a few sidenotes ... there is a "Alias vessel" - template* over on Eric L. Boyd's site, one of the downloads, and pretty detailed too.
Regarding sourcebooks, she has an entry in the Heroes' Lorebook.
Regarding Finder Wyvernspur ... he actually appears and plays a major role in Finder's Bane (Novak & Grubb, The Harpers 15), quite good a read actually.
*NB: The only thing I do not like about that template is the "being good" requirement, which - while understandable - strikes me as odd, given the creators of these vessels. |
| Ateth Istarlin |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 13:02:13
Thanks for the Info Wooly - I've got a idea about using one of Alias' sisters late on in my campaign. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 02:35:03
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Thanks Wooly, that is excellent info and a great job of researching! I will copy this as a Word document and save it with my other bits of Realms-lore.
It actually dates back a few years, to before my banning from the WotC forums. I tried to start a discussion there on how people had used the Alias clones, but it never went anywhere. Ditto for a similar discussion on the Manshoon clones. |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 19 Nov 2006 : 21:11:50
Thanks Wooly, that is excellent info and a great job of researching! I will copy this as a Word document and save it with my other bits of Realms-lore. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Nov 2006 : 17:21:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
I'm curious - did we ever learn the number of vessels that are out there in total?
If there are some 'unaccounted for' vessels - I think it would be amusing for one of them to become involved with one of the Manshoon-clones. I'm not really sure in what capacity - but I think it would be somewhat ironic.
Dhomal
13. But we don't know where all of them are, or what they're doing.
From Azure Bonds and the rest of The Finder's Stone trilogy, we know Alias is a construct, and that there were twelve duplicates of her.
On pages 363 and 364 of Azure Bonds, some of the Alias duplicates are described: a Mulhorandi warrior, one from the far north, a Waterdhavian courtesan, a Moonshae druid, one with eastern weapons and clad entirely in black (a ninja?), and a cleric of Tymora (Zhara, perhaps?).
The Wyvern's Spur introduces us to two more: Jade More, a thief, and Cat of Ordulin, a mage.
Song of the Saurials introduces another Alias duplicate, Zhara, a Turmish cleric of Tymora. On page 193, five of the duplicates are mentioned: a sage in Candlekeep, a mage in Immersea (Cat), an eastern warrior (the possible ninja), a thief who was murdered (Jade More), and a "lady of some power in Waterdeep" (the courtesan?).
That leaves some of the duplicates undescribed...
|
| Dhomal |
Posted - 19 Nov 2006 : 06:10:15
Hello-
I'm curious - did we ever learn the number of vessels that are out there in total?
If there are some 'unaccounted for' vessels - I think it would be amusing for one of them to become involved with one of the Manshoon-clones. I'm not really sure in what capacity - but I think it would be somewhat ironic.
Dhomal |
| Halidan |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 19:42:22
I'd like to see authors explore Alias relationship with Finder now that Finder has asscended to godhood. After all, not many folks can say that they knew a god well before they asscended to power. And, since Finder was both a pseudo father figure and a friend to Alias, there should be some interesting emotions in their current relationship. |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 19:25:40
According to the Bestiary of the realms, and Alias Vessel is always of good alignment.
Cat Wyvernspur is in fact neutral good |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 18 Nov 2006 : 17:55:39
You have the remember that Alias and her sisters have piece of Dragonbait's soul, a soul of a paladin. I doubt that they will start off evil, in fact in the writtings the closests to evil might have been Cat. And she was just afraid and confused to she saw the light.
Over the time since 1357-1358, when the sisters were 'born', there is a chance to change. But also there is a chance that they have been contacted by one of the other sisters like Zhara or certain gods like Tymora or even Finder when he gains enough maturity after 1369.
I don't think that Alias will have an evil twin, unless Cassana is resurrected. But that doesn't mean that someone else might not have the notes for creating a Finder (Alias) vessal and use it for ill. |
| scererar |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 01:41:28
I would very much like to see more of Alias and dragonbait, roaming the realms, seeking out adventure. Maybe even more about them in the Vale with the other Saurials. |
| Winterfox |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 18:00:56
I'd sincerely hope not. Alias' issues with, and approach toward, her "sisters" should be more psychologically complex than "Oh no, she's evil, and look, there but for the grace of Finder and my supportive friends go I." (Besides which, seeing her other self being evil is already done, remember? With the sorceress on whom she's originally based?) Such a contrivance would cheapen her character, if you ask me. Far more interesting would be her attitude toward her sane, do-gooding sisters like Cat or the one whom Akabar married. |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 17:39:25
Interesting idea...
Have Alias away from Dragonbait for a while... I like his character so much that I would hate to do without him. That would provide interesting possibilities, especially if Alias ran into one of her "sisters" that was of an evil bent and causing mayhem somewhere... What if Giogi Wyvernspur and his wife, Cat (I love his character) sought Alias out to deal with a "sister" that is causing problems somewhere near Cormyr? What if this "sister" was a priest of Bane or Cyric? Maybe she is raising an army of humanoids in the Stonelands... Oh, to dream... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 15:27:39
It would be interesting to see all of Alias' family issues . . . her thoughts about Finder, her thoughts about Jamal, and about her "sisters" as well. It may be useful to see these things happen without Dragonbait around as well. While I like Dragonbait, I though it was interesting that when we may have seen Alias by herself in Masquerades, when Dragonbait wanted to move on and back to his family, everything hit the fan before she was really left to her own devices (unless you count her being alone with Victor . . .)
I know Alias is especially protective of Finder, but over time, does anyone think that she might end up as a Harper, or do you think she will just remain an unattatched adventurer. Then again, since the only indication of what she has been doing is spending time with Mintassan, it might be hard to join the Harpers while exploring the Abyss. It would be interesting to see her join only to witnesst the Harper schism, then resign right away, since I imagine this sort of event would greatly upset her.
And as I said above, I would love to see how she would react to running into the reorganized Night Masks.
As far as Jeff Grubb and Realms novels go, the only other thing I can remember is that he said he as been away for so long that he wouldn't want to step on any toes getting back into things, and so if he ever did do anything, which is a big IF, it would just be to tie up the other Alias constructs storyline. I'll have to see if I can find the link to that interview somewhere (or maybe another scribe at the keep remembers it). |
| ShadowJack |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 15:13:51
KEJr.,
I too think Alias is a great character and one of the most interesting characters in the Realms. In the first novel, I loved how her character progresses towards discovering who and what she is. (I also like how she was portrayed in the Realms comics) It almost seemed she took a few steps backwards in "Masquerades", at least emotionally. This makes sense when you think about how young she truly is. She discovers how complex human relationships and even our own feelings are. I wonder how she handles being the daughter of a god, even a minor one like Finder. Why does Jeff Grubb not want to do any more in the Realms? I would love to see the issue of the other constructs settled. We know what happened to two others of them, Cat and the one that Akabar marries, what about the others? |
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